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Ground Level Fireballs Disprove Official Conspiracy Theory

 
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kbo234
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:08 am    Post subject: Ground Level Fireballs Disprove Official Conspiracy Theory Reply with quote

As the two entries from the Complete 9/11 Timeline copied below show, several witnesses have recalled seeing large fireballs coming from the bases of each of the Twin Towers when they collapsed on September 11, 2001. From their descriptions, it seems the fireballs erupted at the time the collapses began, or just before.

These accounts are important evidence, strongly refuting official explanations of why the World Trade Center fell. In its final report on the collapses of the Twin Towers, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) claimed the collapses "initiated at the fire and impact floors," and "progressed from the initiating floors downward." This would mean the collapse began, in the case of the South Tower, around the 78th to 84th floors, and for the North Tower, around the 93rd to 98th floors.

Why would a collapse that started way up towards the top of each building coincide with, or be preceded by, a massive fireball erupting from the bottom? The official theory--that structural damage and fire caused the collapses--cannot explain this. Nor can it explain why, according to several witnesses, the ground started shaking just before the collapse of the South Tower, and again just before the collapse of the North Tower.

The ground level fireballs make sense, however, when we consider what Mark Loizeaux--the president of Controlled Demolition Inc.--has said: "If I were to bring the towers down, I would put explosives in the basement to get the weight of the building to help collapse the structure."

Shortly Before 9:59 a.m. September 11, 2001: Some Witnesses See Ground-Level Explosion Just Before WTC 2 Collapses
Some witnesses reportedly see a massive fireball at ground level, coming from the South Tower just before it starts to collapse. According to a report by the Mineta Transportation Institute (a research institute founded by Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta), "People inside the South Tower felt the floor vibrate as if a small earthquake were occurring.… The vibration lasted for about 30 seconds. The doors were knocked out, and a huge ball of flame created by the exploding diesel fuel from the building's own supply tank shot from the elevator shaft and out the doors of the South Tower, consuming everything in its path. Minutes later, at 9:59 a.m., the tower collapsed." [Jenkins and Edwards-Winslow, 9/2003, pp. 16] Around the same time, Port Authority Police Officer Will Jimeno is in a corridor leading toward the North Tower. "Suddenly the hallway began to shudder," and he sees "the giant fireball explode in the street," when the South Tower begins to collapse. [Bowhunter, 1/2003] Ronald DiFrancesco is the last person to make it out of the South Tower before it collapses. As he is heading toward the exit that leads onto Church Street, he hears a loud roar as the collapse begins. According to the Ottawa Citizen, "Mr. DiFrancesco turned to his right in the direction of Liberty Street, to see a massive fireball—compressed as the South Tower fell—roiling toward [him]." He bolts for the exit, before being knocked unconscious and blown many yards across the street. [USA Today, 12/18/2001; Ottawa Citizen, 6/4/2005; Ottawa Citizen, 6/5/2005; PBS NOVA, 9/5/2006] A number of other witnesses report feeling the ground shaking just seconds before the South Tower collapses (see Shortly Before 9:59 a.m. September 11, 2001).
Source

10:28 a.m. September 11, 2001: Reporter Sees Ground-Level Explosion When North Tower Collapses
CBS News correspondent Carol Marin witnesses what she describes as a "gigantic fireball" coming from the base of the North Tower as it starts to collapse. [USA Today, 9/11/2001; Chicago Sun-Times, 9/12/2001; Daily Herald (Arlington Heights), 9/11/2002] Marin headed to the scene of the attacks and arrived on West Street after the South Tower collapsed. She then sees the second tower come down, later describing, "I was only a block or two away from the North Tower when the street trembled under my feet, a fireball of pooled jet fuel exploded out of the building's base, and it too, unbelievably, started to collapse right in front of me." [Chicago Sun-Times, 9/10/2006] (However, the explosion could not be due to "pooled jet fuel," as, according to the National Institute of Standards and Technology, "The jet fuel" from the planes "was mostly consumed within the first few minutes after impact." [National Institute of Standards and Technology, 6/18/2004; New York Times, 4/5/2005]) In one telling, Marin describes, "a roar seemed to come out of the earth," causing the fireball. [Gilbert et al., 2002] In another, she says, "there was a roar, an explosion, and we could see coming toward us a ball of flame, stories high." She runs, and a firefighter throws her against a building to protect her. She recalls, "The flame somehow stopped short of us." [CBS News, 2002, pp. 54] Other witnesses also describe the ground shaking before the North Tower collapse (see Shortly Before 10:28 a.m. September 11, 2001). And some witnesses similarly report seeing a fireball at ground level coming from the South Tower when it collapsed (see Shortly Before 9:59 a.m. September 11, 2001).
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telecasterisation
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly is the 'official conspiracy theory'?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:26 am    Post subject: My blog entry Reply with quote

Just for the record, I wrote the above piece. It is posted on my two blogs:
http://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2007/12/ground-level-fireballs-dispr ove.html
and http://www.911blogger.com/node/13165

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: My blog entry Reply with quote

Shoestring wrote:
Just for the record, I wrote the above piece. It is posted on my two blogs:
http://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2007/12/ground-level-fireballs-dispr ove.html
and http://www.911blogger.com/node/13165


Good work and thanks.



telecasterisation wrote:
What exactly is the 'official conspiracy theory'?


Is this another one of your amusing jokes?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: My blog entry Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
Good work and thanks.

Cheers. Also, check out the following excellent piece of research from George Washington's blog. This gives further evidence of explosives having been planted lower down in the towers:
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2005/10/below-belt.html

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: My blog entry Reply with quote

Shoestring wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
Good work and thanks.

Cheers. Also, check out the following excellent piece of research from George Washington's blog. This gives further evidence of explosives having been planted lower down in the towers:
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2005/10/below-belt.html


Gosh, some of the quotes on that link are astonishing. Here are a few:

Firefighter said "this, huge incredible force of wind and debris actually came UP the stairs, knocked my helmet off, knocked me to the ground"

CBS News reporter stated "All of a sudden I heard a roar and I saw one of the towers blow ... I saw from street level as though it exploded up, a giant rolling ball of flame...". (same reporter stated) "I hear simultaneously this roar and see what appears to be a gigantic fireball rising up at ground level . . . I remember seeing this giant ball of fire come out of the earth as I heard this roar"

BBC reporter stated "Then, an hour later, we had that big explosion, from much much lower [well below the plane impact]. I don't know what on earth caused that".

Stationary engineer who worked in world trade center one described tremendous damage in the basement of the building more consistent in nature and timing with a bomb than with damage from jet fuel: "'There was nothing there but rubble . . . We're talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press—gone!'. . . They then went to the parking garage, but found that it was also gone. Then on the B level, they found that a steel-and-concrete fire door, which weighed about 300 pounds, was wrinkled up 'like a piece of aluminum foil.' Having seen similar things after the terrorist attack in 1993, [he] was convinced that a bomb had gone off."
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: My blog entry Reply with quote

kbo234 wrote:
telecasterisation wrote:
What exactly is the 'official conspiracy theory'?


Is this another one of your amusing jokes?


No - your first post appears to question the official version of events which is fine. However, the thread states that there is an 'official conspiracy theory' that is being challenged = 'Disprove Official Conspiracy Theory'.

There is no official theory about a conspiracy or otherwise - the official version is resolute in saying that is what happened - it is not deemed or intended to be theoretical in any shape or form.

So my question stands.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The official account alleges that a bunch of Al-Qaeda conspirators conspired to perpetrate the attacks. Hence the 'conspiracy'.

The official account is also a theory for the mere reason that it hasn't been proven. Hence the 'theory'.

That is, the official account is a conspiracy theory.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

acrobat74 wrote:
The official account alleges that a bunch of Al-Qaeda conspirators conspired to perpetrate the attacks. Hence the 'conspiracy'.

The official account is also a theory for the mere reason that it hasn't been proven. Hence the 'theory'.

That is, the official account is a conspiracy theory.


No - the official version is what we are told happened - that is the official line - it is not theoretical. Just because we or you or anyone disbelieves it, does not alter the official line. Just because someone believes we never went to the moon does not alter the official line that we did.

There is no 'official conspiracy theory', you simply see it another way which has no bearing on what we are told.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: My blog entry Reply with quote

Quote:
it is not deemed or intended to be theoretical in any shape or form

Who exactly deems the official nonsense to be non theoretical?
The creators or the believers perhaps?
As it is a description of past events involving 19 men who allegedly conspired together with other AQ members to carry out the "attack" on American soil and seeing as any description of past events can never be more than a theory based on selected evidence,To my mind official conspiracy theory is an accurate description.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

telecasterisation wrote:


There is no 'official conspiracy theory', you simply see it another way which has no bearing on what we are told.


I care about what is, not what we are told.

Without evidence, anyone can say anything.

The official version is a conspiracy theory: it alleges that conspirators conspired and it hasn't been proven.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

acrobat74 wrote:
telecasterisation wrote:


There is no 'official conspiracy theory', you simply see it another way which has no bearing on what we are told.


I care about what is, not what we are told.

Without evidence, anyone can say anything.

The official version is a conspiracy theory: it alleges that conspirators conspired and it hasn't been proven.


I too focus on what is and not what we are told - but that is not what is being discussed;

Unquestionably the facts surrounding 911 have not been proved, it is only alleged that conspirators conspired - but that is the official version not the official theory.

What part of the official line is deemed to be officially theoretical?

By this thinking, the official NASA version of the moon landings is just an official theory then too because they allege we went?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: My blog entry Reply with quote

telecasterisation wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
telecasterisation wrote:
What exactly is the 'official conspiracy theory'?


Is this another one of your amusing jokes?


No - your first post appears to question the official version of events which is fine. However, the thread states that there is an 'official conspiracy theory' that is being challenged = 'Disprove Official Conspiracy Theory'.

There is no official theory about a conspiracy or otherwise - the official version is resolute in saying that is what happened - it is not deemed or intended to be theoretical in any shape or form.

So my question stands.


Their 'intent' is not the point. Everyone here understands that these liars are not calling their version of events a theory......

.......but seeing as their narrative contains a far greater number of possible anomalies than the narratives put forward by 9/11 Truthers, the official narrative can only be accurately described as a theory and a very poor one at that....indeed the word 'theory' implies that the official story is a genuine attempt on their part to tell the truth.

For some dopey people (who live in denial) in politics and the media, this word might be appropriate i.e. one must concede that some genuinely buy into all that nonsense.......

......but for the people who generated this story and continue to promote it, the official conspiracy theory is not a 'theory' at all, it is a straightforward bunch of lies created to cover up a very big crime. It is also the tool they have used to invade foreign countries and kill hundreds of thousands (at least) of dark-skinned people.

You accept their terminology if you want.

I think you'll find yourself part of a small minority on this site.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

telecasterisation wrote:
acrobat74 wrote:
telecasterisation wrote:


There is no 'official conspiracy theory', you simply see it another way which has no bearing on what we are told.


I care about what is, not what we are told.

Without evidence, anyone can say anything.

The official version is a conspiracy theory: it alleges that conspirators conspired and it hasn't been proven.


By this thinking, the official NASA version of the moon landings is just an official theory then too because they allege we went?


lol of course.

How do we know what we think we know?

Governments have an excellent track record of truthfulness, don't you think?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Unquestionably the facts surrounding 911 have not been proved, it is only alleged that conspirators conspired - but that is the official version not the official theory.

What part of the official line is deemed to be officially theoretical?


ALL of it: until the balance of the evidence says otherwise!

I'm getting very bored by these narcissitic and idolent questions Telecasterisation: After all, you've been on this site for well over a year! Is it just that you having nothing left to say?

Knock this norman wisdom b/s on the head or I WILL reign you in: we are not here to entertain this forums time being wasted

I hope you take this on board

If not:

I will start by deleting posts from threads and a first official warning: if I am still disatisfied, I will do second warning: then suspension: then banning

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

telecasterisation wrote:
What exactly is the 'official conspiracy theory'?


This post is the worst offender

Delivered in TC's customary style, it then derails the thread with a series of posts agog and confused at the behaviour behind the question, and not on the significant subject matter of this thread, principly becuase of disbelief (of TC's comment) and confusion about why he would ask that given his number of posts etc... its not as if he is a new poster

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres another account from pbs nova's website:


"Now, Ronnie, who I told you had gone up to the 91st floor and later told me he panicked and went down, when he exited the building it was at the very time when Tower Two was starting to fall. So the moment I was watching the building from Trinity Church was exactly the moment he was coming out of the same place I did, and he was caught in an explosion. He heard the explosion, swirled around, and a fireball was rushing at him from right at the doors where he was about to leave the building.

He put his hands up in front of his face and got blown many, many yards across Liberty Street,"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/above.html
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John White wrote:
telecasterisation wrote:
What exactly is the 'official conspiracy theory'?


This post is the worst offender

Delivered in TC's customary style, it then derails the thread with a series of posts agog and confused at the behaviour behind the question, and not on the significant subject matter of this thread, principly becuase of disbelief (of TC's comment) and confusion about why he would ask that given his number of posts etc... its not as if he is a new poster


Hi John, thanks for responding so constructively.

You are probably correct, I guess I have become disillusioned with the whole process of debate here. All the real characters have all been binned off, gone are your Ignatz, your Pat Browns, your TTWSU3, even NPT was chased into touch (which was no bad thing). It is a great shame that those who encourage true interchange are treated like lepers and ostracised.

I hadn’t really considered I had a style, but now you point it out, I apologise if it has left you offended, I would add though that my question was a genuine one, deemed to be in the context of something raised in the thread by someone else.

That is all rather academic now though, I have lost impetus and with no direction as far as 911 is concerned, I struggle to identify where it is all headed? There is all this new blood coming through though, keen to churn over the same stuff we have been through countless times which will keep you in a job for as long as it continues.

I need a break from all this and recently decided to sell one of the houses I rent out, but after a brainwave instead opted to convert it into a recording studio with accommodation provided. The soundproofing is due to be finished this week, plus I bought myself a 32 track hard disc recorder and plan to complete my third album in the next few months. This will all be original instead of my last one which was an album of covers. I like to do completely rework things, my version of ‘Fernando’ by Abba in the style of Rammstein was acclaimed by all the people who heard it, they both said it was fabulous.

Anyway, I’ll stop in now and again just to check up on all the new developments. No hard feelings;

Tele

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply Tele

If you want to take a break that could be a positive thing for you, and absolutely no hard feelings

Of course you dont need to take a break if you just step back a bit and change your posting habits. We can all get stuck in a rut, I've certainly been there at times

As for me being "kept in a job"... well the willing horse is always saddled, so thats my own fault there!... nevertheless, I consider this site continues to bring forth high quality fresh and relevant information, especially on the devleoping world situation (see, for example, recent threads on the butto assaniation) under the general umberalla of connection to the nexus event of 9/11

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just mulling over some joke about Telecaster being an ofFender but it would probably just add to his/her ennui.

Back on topic, it's as if no-one has believed the key witness, William Rodriguez, who's being saying this ever since he overcame his scruples about obeying an FBI gag order.

Which brings me to ask - just how many here consider they are doing something practical towards bringing the perps to justice? And how many here just come to read and 'be entertained', as if in a theater, not realising that their entire future hangs on their doing something, however little, towards preventing the perps carrying us all on down the road to hell?

Perhaps many, even the fully informed, are still stuck in the co-intelpro-ness of hand-wringing and bemoaning their impotence?

'Oh waily, waily waily' as Pratchett would say...

The truth is within each of us. We are all equally potent, despite countless generations of priests having drilled it into us that only they can save us!
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