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karlos
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 Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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The Government and the BBC are losing the propaganda war.
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Prole
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | You say we don't need it but they are going to make it anyway.
There have been some legal complications (comtempt of court in a 7/7 related case) and they may have to delay transmission.
| Thermate911 wrote: |
Well done all. We don't need another conspiracy file!
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One of the issues Tristan failed to address in his conversation with me was why make a programme on 7/7 now given that there will be a trial in Easter of the 3 accused of complicity in these events.
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zennon
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | Everybody here is simply ignoring my point that the Kelly documentary was a damned fine job in the best traditions of investigative journalism. And that was part of the Conspiracy Files series, it had a different producer to the diabolical 9/11 smear.
You also have to respect the producer's creative freedom. You have no choice there if you believe there should be a free press.
However, if you don't have confidence in the individuals making the particular documentary don't co-operate.
The conspiracy files is a 'department' and not just one person.
You are right to have deep suspicions - so ask the BBC to allay them and then, if they do, start talking. |
While the Kelly one was very good, it pointed the finger for the most part at a covert Iraqi group who wanted the war. Since the 7/7 one will definitely not point the finger at any outside group, they will most probably do a 9/11 style hit-job. So I'm afraid I don;t share your conviction. |
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zennon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Prole wrote: | | TonyGosling wrote: | You say we don't need it but they are going to make it anyway.
There have been some legal complications (comtempt of court in a 7/7 related case) and they may have to delay transmission.
| Thermate911 wrote: |
Well done all. We don't need another conspiracy file!
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One of the issues Tristan failed to address in his conversation with me was why make a programme on 7/7 now given that there will be a trial in Easter of the 3 accused of complicity in these events. |
Sorry, who's on trial? |
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Prole
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| zennon wrote: | | Prole wrote: | | TonyGosling wrote: | You say we don't need it but they are going to make it anyway.
There have been some legal complications (comtempt of court in a 7/7 related case) and they may have to delay transmission.
| Thermate911 wrote: |
Well done all. We don't need another conspiracy file!
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One of the issues Tristan failed to address in his conversation with me was why make a programme on 7/7 now given that there will be a trial in Easter of the 3 accused of complicity in these events. |
Sorry, who's on trial? |
Waheed Ali, Sadeer Saleem and Mohammed Shakil
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Wokeman
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Perhaps someone would remind me what part these individuals played in the bombings of 7/7/05. IMHO, there were no bombers. The lads from Leeds were used, as a legend, an identity to place an indelible image in the mind of the public. Ask anyone, they'll tell you. But I don't believe that they were made use of on the day. The explosions were remotely controlled. See The Ripple Effect! |
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Prole
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Wokeman wrote: | | Perhaps someone would remind me what part these individuals played in the bombings of 7/7/05. IMHO, there were no bombers. The lads from Leeds were used, as a legend, an identity to place an indelible image in the mind of the public. Ask anyone, they'll tell you. But I don't believe that they were made use of on the day. The explosions were remotely controlled. See The Ripple Effect! |
I'm not suggesting that they or the 4 accused are guilty as charged, only that this upcoming trial has been the excuse given by the Met for withholding information/cctv evidence etc. We can only presume that some evidence would have to be produced during this trial, especially as the original charge was changed. I submitted a FOI to the Met to clarify this change:
| Quote: | On Saturday, April 7, 2007 the MPS issued the following press statement:
05.24 Waheed ALI [23 years] [formerly known as Shipon Ullah], recently living in Tower Hamlets Mohammed SHAKILl [30 years] from Beeston, West Yorkshire Sadeer SALEEM [26 years] from Beeston, West Yorkshire appear at City of Westminster MC at 10:00 on 7/4/07
charged: = between 1.11.04 - 29.6.05 unlawfully and maliciously conspired with Mohammed Siddique KHAN, Shezhad TANWEER, Jermaine LINDSAY, Hasib HUSSEIN and others to cause by explosive substance on the Transport for London system and/or tourist attractions in London of a nature likely to endanger life or cause serious injury to property in the UK or the Republic of Ireland. Contrary to section 3(1)(a) of the Explosive Substances Act 1883.
Could you please confirm that the charge has now been changed to "between 1.11.04 - 08.07.05" and whether the MPS have ever issued a revised statement which explains this change in the charge. |
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paul wright
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: |
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Funnily enough I babysat Tristan Quinn when he was a 7-10 year old boy
Honest - on the Mytholm Steeps in Hebden Bridge, West Yorks.
We were very good friends with his parents, Sally and Dave, for a while at least until they split up Dave pissed off to Swanage as I recall, and was never heard of again
So you know I can absolutely vouch for his personal background
Really strange - 20 to 30 years ago and this guy walks back into our stuff
I hope to meet him in the next week or so with West Yorks comrades
Dont judge too harshly until then
I can remember having my car stolen from outside Tristran's house while I was minding, having left my key in the ignition, being the stoner I was then
This is a very unbelievable case of something akin to synchronicity or what goes around comes around or something like that
Tristan might be key in the demolition outcome
Don't entirely reject
Circumspectly consider
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Prole
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:52 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps some of you need reminding of your views after the 9/11 Conspiracy Files before you rush to the aid of the BBC in doing a similar hatchet job on 7/7:
| Gosling wrote: | This whole conspiracy series is meant to blind people.
Here comes another load of manure from the BBC!
We should take note of the names of the producers (and if it wasn't a BBC show I'd say production company too) and be sure to NEVER deal with them.
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TonyGosling
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karlos
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: |
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hopefully the show will go on regardless
i still believe that the 7/7 story needs the oxygen of publicity and any publicity is preferable to the wall of silence at the moment
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Prole
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | So they got a new producer... you just made my point for me.
| Prole wrote: | Perhaps some of you need reminding of your views after the 9/11 Conspiracy Files before you rush to the aid of the BBC in doing a similar hatchet job on 7/7:
| Gosling wrote: | This whole conspiracy series is meant to blind people.
Here comes another load of manure from the BBC!
We should take note of the names of the producers (and if it wasn't a BBC show I'd say production company too) and be sure to NEVER deal with them.
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In a previous (ignored?) response we pointed out that Tristan was the producer of Panorama: Faith, Hate and Charity
The MCB's response to Faith Hate & Charity:
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02 Aug 2006
John Ware’s Uncharitable Panorama in the Service of Israel
John Ware’s latest documentary for Panorama, ‘Faith, Hate and Charity’, which was broadcast last Sunday on BBC1, merely served to confirm that far from being an objective journalist, Ware is actually an agenda-driven pro-Israeli polemicist.
‘It is regrettable that the BBC – despite knowing Ware’s penchant for producing unbalanced programmes on Islam-related issues – has once again allowed its reputation to be sullied in this manner. Ware’s over-reliance on partisan Israeli and American sources clearly exposed the flimsy basis of his arguments against the British Muslim charity, Interpal. The Charities Commission asked the US authorities in 2003 to provide them with the evidence to substantiate their allegations against Interpal – and they failed to do so. Earlier this year, the Board of Deputies of British Jews were forced to apologise and pay an expensive out-of-court settlement after they made unsubstantiated allegations against Interpal. Not surprisingly, Ware made no mention of this. All in all, Ware’s Panorama was a shoddy attempt to smear a charity that has been trying to bring desperately needed relief to Palestinians subsisting under a very brutal military occupation,’ said Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, Secretary-General of the Muslim Council of Britain.
The MCB is confident that well meaning donors will not allow themselves to be deterred by such a partisan attempt to undermine the work of Interpal. The increasingly desperate attempts being made by some mediocre journalists to discourage British Muslims from speaking out against the perpetrators of injustice and oppression will not succeed. |
But then don't let the facts get in the way of the ego, Tony.
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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malcks
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| stop and ask yourself,who reported the collapse of building 7 20min before the event? oh yes the good old trust worthy BBC |
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ian neal
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karlos
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously the BBC is a thoroughly corrupt and morally bankrupt organisation. However, they are the only ones making this documentary and it will give the cause some degree of publicity and therefore some good will come out of it. The current wall of silence surrounding 7/7 must be broken.
I believe that those who are frightened that they will be ridiculed in public and therefore have decided to keep their heads under the blankets are doing the cause alot of harm. In fact it is their ego and their desire to remain underground that is preventing 7/7 from becoming a mainstream issue.
I suggest it is time to stand up for what you believe in and stop behaving like gatekeepers.
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Prole
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | Obviously the BBC is a thoroughly corrupt and morally bankrupt organisation. However, they are the only ones making this documentary and it will give the cause some degree of publicity and therefore some good will come out of it. The current wall of silence surrounding 7/7 must be broken.
I believe that those who are frightened that they will be ridiculed in public and therefore have decided to keep their heads under the blankets are doing the cause alot of harm. In fact it is their ego and their desire to remain underground that is preventing 7/7 from becoming a mainstream issue.
I suggest it is time to stand up for what you believe in and stop behaving like gatekeepers. |
Perfectly illustrating the difference between a morally bankrupt and opportunistic position and the principled stand taken by J7 & LD.
We intend to petition the BBC/ITV/Channel 4 to make a serious and investigative documentary examining the deeply flawed narrative and the anomalies, inconsistencies and downright lies surrounding the events on 7/7.
You can keep ignoring Tristan's previous in regards to making documentaries that the MCB found offensive and pro-Israeli, we at J7 will not.
edit: I presume by your logic that the BBC's 9/11 Conspiracy Files rocked the establishment and brought the revolution a step closer?
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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guzman
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | Obviously the BBC is a thoroughly corrupt and morally bankrupt organisation. However, they are the only ones making this documentary and it will give the cause some degree of publicity and therefore some good will come out of it. The current wall of silence surrounding 7/7 must be broken.
I believe that those who are frightened that they will be ridiculed in public and therefore have decided to keep their heads under the blankets are doing the cause alot of harm. In fact it is their ego and their desire to remain underground that is preventing 7/7 from becoming a mainstream issue.
I suggest it is time to stand up for what you believe in and stop behaving like gatekeepers. |
The role of gatekeeper would be more effectively carried out via the TV screen.
If a representative of the July 7th Truth Campaign was to have his or her views ridiculed on national television then that would only be second to an undermining and ridiculing of survivors and relatives of the deceased in foistering harm upon 'the cause'.
If someone truthfully representing the campaign was to partake in the documentary then it's likely that if he or she put in a terrible 'performance' then it would be broadcast as filmed. If they were to put in an average 'performance' with some good arguments then the CF team would edit them to look bad. If they were to put forth devastating arguments, one after another, then all and every one of those arguments would end up on the cutting room floor only to be left with a repeated loop of a toilet break. Its what a thoroughly corrupt and morally bankrupt organisation would do. |
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paul wright
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| Prole wrote: | | TonyGosling wrote: | So they got a new producer... you just made my point for me.
| Prole wrote: | Perhaps some of you need reminding of your views after the 9/11 Conspiracy Files before you rush to the aid of the BBC in doing a similar hatchet job on 7/7:
| Gosling wrote: | This whole conspiracy series is meant to blind people.
Here comes another load of manure from the BBC!
We should take note of the names of the producers (and if it wasn't a BBC show I'd say production company too) and be sure to NEVER deal with them.
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In a previous (ignored?) response we pointed out that Tristan was the producer of Panorama: Faith, Hate and Charity
The MCB's response to Faith Hate & Charity:
| Quote: | :
02 Aug 2006
John Ware’s Uncharitable Panorama in the Service of Israel
John Ware’s latest documentary for Panorama, ‘Faith, Hate and Charity’, which was broadcast last Sunday on BBC1, merely served to confirm that far from being an objective journalist, Ware is actually an agenda-driven pro-Israeli polemicist.
‘It is regrettable that the BBC – despite knowing Ware’s penchant for producing unbalanced programmes on Islam-related issues – has once again allowed its reputation to be sullied in this manner. Ware’s over-reliance on partisan Israeli and American sources clearly exposed the flimsy basis of his arguments against the British Muslim charity, Interpal. The Charities Commission asked the US authorities in 2003 to provide them with the evidence to substantiate their allegations against Interpal – and they failed to do so. Earlier this year, the Board of Deputies of British Jews were forced to apologise and pay an expensive out-of-court settlement after they made unsubstantiated allegations against Interpal. Not surprisingly, Ware made no mention of this. All in all, Ware’s Panorama was a shoddy attempt to smear a charity that has been trying to bring desperately needed relief to Palestinians subsisting under a very brutal military occupation,’ said Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, Secretary-General of the Muslim Council of Britain.
The MCB is confident that well meaning donors will not allow themselves to be deterred by such a partisan attempt to undermine the work of Interpal. The increasingly desperate attempts being made by some mediocre journalists to discourage British Muslims from speaking out against the perpetrators of injustice and oppression will not succeed. |
But then don't let the facts get in the way of the ego, Tony. |
Yes. It would be good to know of all of Tristan's Panorama output, so as to enable a good rounded view
We hope to meet with him soon, so it is good to view his previous work
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TonyGosling
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karlos
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Prole wrote: | that the MCB found offensive and pro-Israeli
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Personally i regard the MCB's opinons as being totally devoid of any balance. Dont forget the MCB has supported this government to the hilt and has also recently come out in favour of the crooked mayor Ken Livingstone. So i wouldtake anything the MCB says with a pinch of salt.
I find the MCB offensive and for them to accuse the BBC of being pro Israeli is like them calling the Earth round.
Let me rimind people. Fox made a documentary about the moon landings hoax. Obviously Fox is controlled by Murdoch and nobody could accuse Fox of being anything different from the BBC. Even though the programme was intended as a hitpiece it did open the eyes of many people both in America and the rest of the world and it let the genie out of the bottle.
So whatever the BBC do with regards to 7/7 and however, much they try and push the official story. The show will have an influence on people and they will look up and start doing their own research. Any publicity is good publicity as they say.
If the programme is screened it will wake alot of people up.
I cannot see how this show will harm the cause. After all there is no cause a the moment is there. There is no campaign, there is no office, there is nobody appearing on tv regularly giving interviews, there are no adverts in newspapers and there are no demonstrations, marches or meetings.
Other than a couple of internet videos such as the ripple effect and ludicrous diversion there is virtually nothing to describe this as a cause.
In fact the only people i have seen on tv ever speaking about 7/7 have been David Icke and an Imam from Birmingham.
You mention the MCB well they have said many times that the bombings were 100% as advertised.
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guzman
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: karlos, the |
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| karlos wrote: | | Prole wrote: | that the MCB found offensive and pro-Israeli
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| karlos wrote: | Personally i regard the MCB's opinons as being totally devoid of any balance. Dont forget the MCB has supported this government to the hilt and has also recently come out in favour of the crooked mayor Ken Livingstone. So i wouldtake anything the MCB says with a pinch of salt.
I find the MCB offensive and for them to accuse the BBC of being pro Israeli is like them calling the Earth round. |
I hold similar views to you about the Muslim Council of Britain. Strangely, though the same criticisms can be said about the BBC or parts thereof you want people to ingratiate themselves with the BBC Conspiracy Files team.
| karlos wrote: | | Let me rimind people. Fox made a documentary about the moon landings hoax. Obviously Fox is controlled by Murdoch and nobody could accuse Fox of being anything different from the BBC. Even though the programme was intended as a hitpiece it did open the eyes of many people both in America and the rest of the world and it let the genie out of the bottle. So whatever the BBC do with regards to 7/7 and however, much they try and push the official story. The show will have an influence on people and they will look up and start doing their own research. |
If their intention is to push the official story then what do you suggest is their motive behind fielding, or trying to field, serious critics of the official position?
| karlos wrote: | | Any publicity is good publicity as they say. |
That maxim mostly applies to celebrities and commercial entities.
| karlos wrote: | | If the programme is screened it will wake alot of people up. |
Only if they fell asleep watching Eastenders.
| karlos wrote: | I cannot see how this show will harm the cause. After all there is no cause a the moment is there. There is no campaign, there is no office, there is nobody appearing on tv regularly giving interviews, there are no adverts in newspapers and there are no demonstrations, marches or meetings.
Other than a couple of internet videos such as the ripple effect and ludicrous diversion there is virtually nothing to describe this as a cause.
In fact the only people i have seen on tv ever speaking about 7/7 have been David Icke and an Imam from Birmingham. |
You don't count Rachel North or several of the survivors and relatives that have so far been critical.
| karlos wrote: | | You mention the MCB well they have said many times that the bombings were 100% as advertised. |
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karlos
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Rachel is obviously a supporter of the official story.
I mean nobody other than David Icke and the man from Birmingham Mosque has to my knowledge appeared on tv questioning the official conspiracy.
I detest the BBC and everything it stands for and does but they control the bulk of the news tv and radio in the UK. So in order to get anywhere you have to work with them. It is no good waiting for ITV or Channel 4 or SKY to make a 7/7 documentary because it will be a long wait.
I would love for representatives of J7 to start appearing on news programmes and documentaries stating boldly the facts about 7/7 but you know that is not going to happen because it hasnt happened in the last 3 years. Not one MP has challenged the official account nor has any journalist.
So i would suggest this BBC2 programme is the only punter in town.
The internet petition for a 7/7 inquiry collected only 1200 names. Which shows how anonymous the campaign is at the moment. It is very important to raise the profile of 7/7. We owe it to the victims, the survivors and those falsely accused which means we have to forget our own petty egos and stand up and be counted. If people sling mud at us we must be ready to rebutt with well versed facts and arguments.
Once the British public wakes up to the fact that the war against terror is a lie then maybe we can stop calling it a war and start calling it properly what it really is:
A GENOCIDE AGAINST MUSLIMS.
meanwhile certain people will continue with their 'principled stand' and keep their heads under the duvet
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suraci
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Just show the doubters the Peter Power footage, and watch the expression on their faces if you want a laugh. You can see the sheer confusion, the instant denting of carefully placed mind switches that takes place as they listen to someone say it sent shivers up his spine that his company was training for a drill on the precise stations at the precise time the real thing triggered off (for a ...ahem...unnamed Jewish company). The odds of that happening are worse than for winning the lottery apparently.
Makes me all cosy in my bed knowing that Israeli firms are increasingly taking over defense contracts, IT sytems, security on the Tube, at airports and on and on and on.
But it's not Zionists behind all this, it's a Germanic death cult or UFO's or Lizards or something. |
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Prole
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Karlos wrote: | | I would love for representatives of J7 to start appearing on news programmes and documentaries stating boldly the facts about 7/7 but you know that is not going to happen because it hasnt happened in the last 3 years. Not one MP has challenged the official account nor has any journalist. |
J7 had a representative on this piece:
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/religion/survey+governme nt+hasnt+told+truth+about+77/545847
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/law_order/77+the+conspir acy+theories/545762
I was interviewed by the Guardian here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1806794,00.html
Another J7 editor was able to reply to the piece in a comment is free column:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1812074,00.html
(hardly keeping our heads under the duvet)
We have also forced two changes to the government narrative:
http://j7truth.blogspot.com/2007/08/home-office-corrections-to-july-7t h.html
Our petition to release the evidence has nearly 2000 signatures:
http://www.petitiononline.com/j7truth/petition.html
We continue to reasearch these events and create massive discomfort for the ptb with a steady stream of FOI requests.
What have you done Karlos?
_________________
'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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ian neal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| suraci wrote: | | The odds of that happening are worse than for winning the lottery apparently. |
Whilst it was a spooky, extraordinary 'coincidence', the statistics quoted by Alex Jones and Muad Dib are bs and practically meaningless |
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kbo234
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | | suraci wrote: | | The odds of that happening are worse than for winning the lottery apparently. |
Whilst it was a spooky, extraordinary 'coincidence', the statistics quoted by Alex Jones and Muad Dib are bs and practically meaningless |
Agreed. It is impossible to realistically estimate odds against such coincidences occurring without prefacing one's numbers by stating the assumptions on which the calculation is based. These assumptions could inevitably be challenged or even ridiculed....whatever they were.
However, the assumptions behind the Jones/Dib calculations are genuinely ridiculous.
That said, common sense tells us that what ever these odds are they are going to be impossibly high against such a coincidence actually happening.....which it, apparently, did. |
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karlos
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Prole - each of those 4 links i had seen already.
But i guess you think 4 links over a period of three years is pretty good going.
How many times has Rachel been on tv and in the press during the same time?
If you are happy with your rate of return over the last three years then it really is a sad state of affairs.
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Prole
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Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 632
Location: London UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | Prole - each of those 4 links i had seen already.
But i guess you think 4 links over a period of three years is pretty good going.
How many times has Rachel been on tv and in the press during the same time?
If you are happy with your rate of return over the last three years then it really is a sad state of affairs. |
Which means you were being dishonest when you wrote:
| Karlos wrote: | | I would love for representatives of J7 to start appearing on news programmes and documentaries stating boldly the facts about 7/7 but you know that is not going to happen because it hasnt happened in the last 3 years. |
I happen to think that any BBC CF on 7/7 will attempt to smother and kill off debate on these issues, which is probably the very reason they are making it. Very likely it'll do more harm than good. The issues surrounding 7/7, not just for the Muslim community but for all of us, are far too important to allow ourselves to be party to that. If the BBC want J7 on board they'll have to make a serious investigative documentary, which isn't likely to happen as there is too much at stake.
The 9/11 CF hardly rocked the establishment did it? A serious investigative documentary shown on the BBC about 9/11 should have.
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TonyGosling
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karlos
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: london
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Prole wrote: | | Which means you were being dishonest |
I hardly considered a couple of articles spread over 3 years was evidence of a widespread campaign. It's still an anonymous and toothless campaign.
You really need to come out of hiding and go publc with all the data you have collected over the last 3 years. Go on tv, go on radio, start making some noise, start rattling the cage.
If you managed to get published in a pro Labour paper like the Guardian you should have built on that and got the story into other more newsworthy publications. If you are honest you really cant be happy with the campaign so far. And rather than the never ending bickering start focusing on raising it's profile and getting media coverage.
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