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Alulim
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 Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: Jet Fuel Volume vs. WTC Volume |
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I thought there was a thread already discussing this issue, but I don't see it right now. In the case of WTC2, how much of that fuel was consumed in the fireball?
| Description: |
| Comparison between on of the Twin Towers and volume of jet fuel on board one of the planes. |
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9.38 KB |
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4150 Time(s) |
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| Description: |
| The fireball following UAL 175 hitting WTC2. |
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156.5 KB |
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97 Time(s) |
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"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~ Pennsylvania Historical Review (1759) |
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sam
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
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What's the purpose of the volume comparison?
What is it you want to discuss?
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Alulim
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Start with: "In the case of WTC2, how much of that fuel was consumed in the fireball?"
The implications are fairly obvious.
_________________
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~ Pennsylvania Historical Review (1759) |
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Alulim wrote: | Start with: "In the case of WTC2, how much of that fuel was consumed in the fireball?"
The implications are fairly obvious. |
Given the fairly obvious methods that everyone else here would use to arrive at an answer to your question;
1) Simply guess themselves by putting a wet finger in the air.
2) Use a search engine and then quote what someone else/an expert suggests.
What stops you doing the same?
_________________
I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC |
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Sherlock Holmes
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Can I refer you to:
Non-animated Visualization Aids to Assist in Understanding the
Demolitions of the World Trade Center Twin Towers
http://www.journalof911studies.com/letters/e/VisualizationAidsWTCTower s.pdf
To assist the reader in comprehending the 900 cubic feet volume of jet fuel that remained in each of the buildings after the fireballs, three familiar examples are provided.
1. A single standard 10’x10’ office cubicle filled to 9 feet. Approximately 300 such cubicles plus walkways and amenities could have been contained on each of the 110 floors (40,000 square feet) of each Twin Tower.
2. A mid-size U-Haul ® truck. The 17’ Easy Loading Mover rental truck has a box volume of 855 cubic feet. Total cab plus box volume is over 900 cubic feet. U-Haul also offers two larger trucks with volumes of 1,401 and 1,592 and two smaller trucks. The 17’ model is pictured in the middle below.
3. A mid-size do-it-yourself above ground pool. Below is a photo of an Intex ® 18’ diameter, 4’ tall above ground pool. Volume of an 18’ diameter, 4’ tall pool is 1,017 cubic feet. Intex also offers a model with twice this volume.
IN OTHER WORDS, RELATIVE VOLUMES....
| telecasterisation wrote: |
Given the fairly obvious methods that everyone else here would use to arrive at an answer to your question;
1) Simply guess themselves by putting a wet finger in the air.
2) Use a search engine and then quote what someone else/an expert suggests.
What stops you doing the same? |
And so it would seem others could be in need of one of these...
Last edited by Sherlock Holmes on Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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When I first looked at this site, I remember a user asking three times what 'LIHOP' meant? This being arguably the greatest source of information known to man, he could have found the answer in @ ten seconds instead of typing three different posts and waiting. If that requires some form of meter to measure, then plug it in.
Of course, it appears we are relying on the official version of events to draw specific conclusions about fireballs etc - if the planes were switched, all calculations are void unless the replacements were identically fuelled. Not to mention the question of additional accelerants being added. The 'pod/missile' question is still quite a potent one.
Add to this, the torrent of 'expert' opinion, graphical representation, figures and 'facts' we use to say this or that happened. I conclude we are no closer to saying definitively how much actual damage either crashing jet airliner caused, or the resulting explosions and lingering fires in relation to removing what was required to keep the structure above the impact area from dropping to larger section below.
Have you ever noticed how they must use really tiny people in the advertising shots of those plastic swimming pools to make them appear bigger?
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I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC |
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Alulim
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| telecasterisation wrote: | | Alulim wrote: | Start with: "In the case of WTC2, how much of that fuel was consumed in the fireball?"
The implications are fairly obvious. |
Given the fairly obvious methods that everyone else here would use to arrive at an answer to your question;
1) Simply guess themselves by putting a wet finger in the air.
2) Use a search engine and then quote what someone else/an expert suggests.
What stops you doing the same? |
Knowing all the answers doesn't do a lot of good if no one else does. If you really want a scientific analysis try the NIST report. Simple answer is that they estimated that about half the fuel went into the fireball. I find it unlikely that the fireball recorded in the images was created by only half the amount of fuel on board the aircraft. Greg Jenkins and I discussed this on the stj911 forum before I was banned for doing things like suggesting that US, British and Israeli intelligence agencies might be involved in the drug trade. You can contact Victoria Ashley if you are interested in the calculations. I do not have access to my work any longer.
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~ Pennsylvania Historical Review (1759) |
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Sherlock Holmes
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| telecasterisation wrote: |
Have you ever noticed how they must use really tiny people in the advertising shots of those plastic swimming pools to make them appear bigger? |
Well actually no I haven't noticed that, but I will not "use a search engine and then quote what someone else/an expert suggests". I'll bear it in mind next time I'm hiring a paddling pool. Would it follow then that the U-Haul truck is made to appear larger than it is, or the guy in the office cubicle has a larger cheesy grin than he might otherwise have if he was an office worker? So how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Even if none of the jet fuel (refined kerosene) was consumed in the fireball (which obviously didn't happen), there still wasn't enough fuel to melt the steel and bring those towers down. There was plenty of asphyxiating smoke however, so people would rather jump & fall to their deaths than die the agonizing slow death of smoke asphyxiation.
I think this is all quite a pointless circular actually, yes so why not pluck a figure out of the air after using a wet finger, or you can use the figures quoted by NIST, or by a letter accepted for publication in the journal of 911 studies.
It’s interesting to note telecasterisation, that we share a birthday; in that we both registered on this site on the same day. It would seem however that our journeys on this site since then have differed somewhat.
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Sherlock Holmes wrote: |
Even if none of the ........agonizing slow death of smoke asphyxiation.
It’s interesting to note telecasterisation, ............have differed somewhat. |
I agree, it is highly improbable that fuel alone brought the towers down. Regards birthdays and journeys, our passages have been so dissimilar? You appear to be a truther - ditto. The only major difference being the number of posts. Perhaps your magnifying glass business is booming, meaning time spent elsewhere?
_________________
I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC |
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Alulim
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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In the States we have a saying "Quality, not quantity".
_________________
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~ Pennsylvania Historical Review (1759) |
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telecasterisation
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Alulim wrote: | | In the States we have a saying "Quality, not quantity". |
My English teacher was called Mr Gaffyne. He was a flash type of person, nice suits, very trendy type of mush. Seldom did a weekend pass without him turning up without a different woman in tow.
One particular Friday afternoon he disappeared early and just as the bell went to end afternoon sessions, he roared up the drive in a flame red Triumph Spitfire, brand new straight out of the showroom. A group of boys gathered around the car and my mate Lou Kuznir said 'That's a real quality motor sir!' Mr Gaffyne looked genuinely upset by this statement;
'How many times must I tell you Kuznir? What kind of quality? Good, bad, indifferent - where is the modifier? The word 'quality' on its own means nothing!'
We spent the rest of the entire week having modifiers grilled into us.
_________________
I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC |
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Alulim
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| telecasterisation wrote: | | Alulim wrote: | | In the States we have a saying "Quality, not quantity". |
My English teacher was called Mr Gaffyne. He was a flash type of person, nice suits, very trendy type of mush. Seldom did a weekend pass without him turning up without a different woman in tow. |
Dare say, is he responsible for your command of the language? I never gave high school much attention. Didn't get past the 10th grade.
| telecasterisation wrote: |
One particular Friday afternoon he disappeared early and just as the bell went to end afternoon sessions, he roared up the drive in a flame red Triumph Spitfire, brand new straight out of the showroom. A group of boys gathered around the car and my mate Lou Kuznir said 'That's a real quality motor sir!' Mr Gaffyne looked genuinely upset by this statement;
'How many times must I tell you Kuznir? What kind of quality? Good, bad, indifferent - where is the modifier? The word 'quality' on its own means nothing!'
We spent the rest of the entire week having modifiers grilled into us. |
And the moral of the story is, don't say 'real' when you mean 'high'. Either that or, a pedant who can't deal with an obvious colloquialism is a genuine @rse.
But back to the question of fuel. My calculations show that the fuel distribution would have probably been less, on average, than a millimeter thick on the surfaces where it was distributed. Assume the fuel was atomized on impact and distributed fairly evenly throughout the floors which were directly impacted by the wings. Each wing's fuel went on a separate floor. At least half of the fuel was consumed in the fireball. The floors were 207X207 feet with 1/3 of their space occupied by the cores which I have excluded. There were 600 cubic feet of fuel sprayed throughout these large open office areas. Assume half of the fuel was adsorbed by the ceiling tiles and office furniture. and the rest by the floors. How would this thin film of fuel possibly burned long enough and hot enough to significantly weaken steel?
As was pointed out in one of the fire studies (NIST?) the fuel distribution would have actually caused the fires to burn cooler because it would have caused a uniform depletion of oxygen.
_________________
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~ Pennsylvania Historical Review (1759) |
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Sherlock Holmes
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Location: Sunny Southampton
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Alulim wrote: | | In the States we have a saying "Quality, not quantity". |
In the UK they have the identical saying. But from the response you have received to your intelligent observation surely you realise that you have cast your pearls....
I once knew an angry, frightening, aggressive drunkard. A womaniser, gambler, thief who had been married/divorced & having made & lost his fortune at least three times over. While generally pointing out the stupidity he saw in others, and sneering at the world in general he would say "you can't educate pork".
A rather pig headed, arrogant, ill-educated man was feeling under the weather. He didn't have time for doctors, because "they were all quacks", but visited one anyway. The doctor prescribed a number of pills, blood pressure, angina, chest infection etc. giving precise instructions of when & how to take the pills. (Morning with meals, three times a day, once a day, dissolve in water, before bedtime etc.)
The man left the doctors office, on arriving home he looked at his pills, they were tiny little things. He thought to himself, I'll take them all now and surely I'll be better in the morning. Needless to say morning never came for him....
A university professor visited a master to inquire about wisdom, greater knowledge and the art self contemplation. The master received the professor and served tea. He poured the professors cup full and then kept pouring. The professor watched until he could no longer restrain himself. "The cup is full, no more will go in!" he said.
"Like this cup," the master replied, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations, how can I show you Zen until you first empty your own cup?"
They say a little bit of knowledge is dangerous, I humbly disagree, all knowledge is invaluable. Having no capacity for, or concept of, wisdom is deadly.
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