Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 290 Location: New Albion
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Steven Jones's Red/Gray Chip Thermite Evidence
This thread is not about DEW, or any other of Judy Wood's "theories". It is about the scientific research conducted by Steven Jones analyzing the red/gray chips found in the dust from the WTC collapses. Efforts to introduce other topics which would lead this thread to be classed as controversial should be understood as purposeful disruption.
Thanks to Fleet for bringing this topic up in the now hijacked thread. _________________ "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~ Pennsylvania Historical Review (1759)
Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 115 Location: Cardiff, Wales
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject:
Very, very intriguing.
I'm trying to get hold of those graphs which show the chemical make-up of the chips from the different locations. I'd be then willing to take them to my university, all information removed from the graphs except the spikes themselves, and ask how certain is it that these graphs show the same material...
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Steven Jones's Red/Gray Chip Thermite Evidence
Alulim wrote:
It is about the scientific research conducted by Steven Jones analyzing the red/gray chips found in the dust from the WTC collapses. Efforts to introduce other topics which would lead this thread to be classed as controversial should be understood as purposeful disruption.
Personally I feel that threads in the 9/11 controversies section should appear in the LHS menu on the front page and therefore be as prominent as any other thread but I will leave that to tony et al to consider.
That said controversies refers to issues that are most controversial amongst 9/11 truth campaigners and that presently includes both Judy Woods theories, related theories of TVF and NPTs and also the theories of Steven Jones on thermate/thermite.
So really any Steven Jones/thermate threads should be in controversies.
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 290 Location: New Albion
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject:
"In the welter of conflicting fanaticisms, one of the few unifying forces is scientific truthfulness, by which I mean the habit of basing our beliefs upon observations and inferences as impersonal, and as much divested of local and temperamental bias, as is possible for human beings. To have insisted upon the introduction of this virtue into philosophy,and to have invented a powerful method by which it can be rendered fruitful, are the chief merits of the philosophical school of which I am a member. The habit of careful veracity acquired in the practice of this philosophical method can be extended to the whole sphere of human activity, producing,wherever it exists, a lessening of fanaticism with an increasing capacity of sympathy and mutual understanding. In abandoning a part of its dogmatic pretensions, philosophy does not cease to suggest and inspire a way of life."~Bertrand Russell. A History of Western Philosophy, p. 836.
There is no dark side of the Moon, really. As a matter of fact, it's all dark. _________________ "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~ Pennsylvania Historical Review (1759)
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 1158 Location: South Essex
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: Steven Jones's Red/Gray Chip Thermite Evidence
ian neal wrote:
Alulim wrote:
It is about the scientific research conducted by Steven Jones analyzing the red/gray chips found in the dust from the WTC collapses. Efforts to introduce other topics which would lead this thread to be classed as controversial should be understood as purposeful disruption.
Personally I feel that threads in the 9/11 controversies section should appear in the LHS menu on the front page and therefore be as prominent as any other thread but I will leave that to tony et al to consider.
That said controversies refers to issues that are most controversial amongst 9/11 truth campaigners and that presently includes both Judy Woods theories, related theories of TVF and NPTs and also the theories of Steven Jones on thermate/thermite.
So really any Steven Jones/thermate threads should be in controversies.
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: Re: Steven Jones's Red/Gray Chip Thermite Evidence
The front page should always give a good first impression. If controversies are thrashed out and proven... yes, proven off the front page in controversies they can then go on the front page. It's all peer reviewed and if a consensus in the movement forms hopefully we'll pick up on it.
It can be just one well-cross-examined argument, or shoud I say discussion (q&a after a presentation maybe), on video or audio that does the trick.
I never met a straight presentation that did it for me.
ian neal wrote:
Personally I feel that threads in the 9/11 controversies section should appear in the LHS menu on the front page and therefore be as prominent as any other thread but I will leave that to tony et al to consider.
That said controversies refers to issues that are most controversial amongst 9/11 truth campaigners and that presently includes both Judy Woods theories, related theories of TVF and NPTs and also the theories of Steven Jones on thermate/thermite.
So really any Steven Jones/thermate threads should be in controversies.
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Steven Jones's Red/Gray Chip Thermite Evidence
Alulim wrote:
This thread is not about DEW, or any other of Judy Wood's "theories". It is about the scientific research conducted by Steven Jones analyzing the red/gray chips found in the dust from the WTC collapses. Efforts to introduce other topics which would lead this thread to be classed as controversial should be understood as purposeful disruption.
Thanks to Fleet for bringing this topic up in the now hijacked thread.
Jones says that the Brooklyn bridge sample is "uncontaminated". How does he know that? Because it was taken only 20 minutes after the collapse? That's ridiculous. The iron spherules came down with the debris. They would have been already contaminated by the time they reached ground level and did not need further time for this to happen, as Jones falsely implies by referring to how soon after the collapse the sample was taken. The fact that spikes in the read-out appear for the same elements found in thermate proves nothing. Read an analysis of dust and air sampled the day after 9/11
http://www.ehponline.org/members/2003/5930/5930.html
and you find the same elements! That did not bother the authors of this scientific paper!! The presence of sulphur proves nothing - the iron would have been exposed to sulphur dioxide released by burning gypsum in wallboard. Jones asserts that only low levels of calcium were found in his iron spheres and concludes that the sulphur did not come from gypsum, That's ridiculous, too! What is regarded as "low" is a subjective opinion. He did not have a large enough sample, statistically speaking, to be able to infer this safely from his few samples. In fact, the analysis in the linked paper using X-ray fluorescence, neutron activation analysis, and inductively coupled plasma spectrometry showed high levels of calcium (range, 22-33%) and sulphur (37-43% as sulphate). So much for Jones' statistically insignificant sample! Jones makes it appear contamination is not an issue whereas it completely undermines his claim unless he deals with it adequately. Which of course he cannot. He cannot escape this alternative possibility with throw-away remarks to his audience that lull them into a false belief that only thermate could create the ferric oxide in the red chips and be responsible for the high sulphur spike. Every chemist knows that hot iron once cooled rusts more quickly than normal because ferrous oxide formed by heating is more readily oxidised. So there is no problem why so much rust appeared in the girders and dust of the debris field at the WTC complex. Jones turns it into a false anomaly so as to provide flawed evidence for his otherwise redundant hypothesis. Redundant because his only motive for considering it in the first place was the molten metal flowing out of the 81st floor of the South Tower shortly before it was blown up. He wrongly interpreted it as molten steel needing thermate, whereas we now know
http://iamthewitness.com/Bollyn/Bollyn-Fuji-WTC.html
that Fuji Bank stored banks of lead batteries on that floor, so the metal was not iron but lead, which melts at temperatures (327.5 degrees Centigrade) easily reached by office fires. But, of course, whilst Jones is fully aware of this fact disclosed to Bollyn by a former employee of the bank, having communicated with Bollyn, he cherry-picks his information and withholds anything that undermines his case. And this is supposed to be scientific research?
It appears I`m again forced to intervene;
The smell of rotting rubbish was making me gag at my PC terminal.
I do wish people with no grasp of technical issues would leave it to people who do.
Go melt yourself some lead and throw it off the roof....notice the COLOUR...there isnt any. Its dull grey....
But that small "technical anomoly" aside; the fact that nonsense like this is even on this site is clear evidence that we don`t deserve to be treated as a professional campaign at all.
Wonder why; we are HERE after 7 years? (i.e. not very far)
Think very carefully about that.
What a waste of time.....I get such a laugh at you lot who all say "I just knew it was a lie" as soon as 9/11 happened but yet cannot see when morons post nonsense all over the forum!!!!! Good god.
Turn your "truth filters" on please. Just because you realise the real 9/11 has HAPPENED doesn`t mean that we have the right to rest easy with the knowledge we "campaign". Monstrous lies and total nonsense surround us, if you cant be arsed to sort it out (or smell the coffee) we utterly deserve to fail.
Adding a "disclaimer" to the title page or removing the title of "campaign site" from the page AFTER its been up for YEARS is quite patently the equivalent of standing naked in the supermarket until security arrives then putting a dressing gown on and acting surprised when you still get thrown out......but whatever.
Calum Douglas _________________ The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist
Did he find any terrorist DNA ? Popular mechanics Davin Coburn (the spotty geek from the Guy Smith BBC hitpiece)claimed it was EVERYWHERE that time on Arizona radio!
Would dust still on 9/11 WTC first responder lungs be any use as evidence?
Dr. Jones seems to get a mauling everytime he opens his mouth, it must be gauling to a man with at level of advanced physics experience to be berated by people who have yet to graduate tho' none of us are above criticism.
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