audio - can CWU halt destruction of the post office?

[TonyGosling]

Here's an interview with Kevin Beazer regional secretry of the Communication Workers' Union in Bristol.
After 350 years of universal service the British public is facing an end to daily deliveries and high rates for posting letters outside cities.
The press, however, is portraying the present dispute as purely about pay. Kevin Beezer sets the record straight explaining fully the background to the current series of strikes.

http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=23956

[Mark Gobell]

Superb interview TG, well done.

I was in my local sorting office the other week and heard exactly this:

The Post Office are being paid pennies to deliver the business post where the private operators have creamed off the top as per.

I was in a photographic shop recently when the assistant apologised to her customer about the delay in receiving her prints because of the postal strike:

"Obviously don't care about their customers do they" she said.

I replied:

"I think they do care about their customers and they're taking action for that very reason. If they don't succeed we'll all be paying a pound to send a letter rather than 32 pence"

"Downstream Access" a euphemism for privatisation and closing our post offices so that the corporate wolves can consume the last bastion of the once Great British Post Office.

I did say at the sorting office that I don't think a strike is the way forward as I think you're just playing into their plans.

Why not refuse to deliver the business post instead ?

Postcomm discusses the thin end of the zonal wedge here, the zonal charging of business mail.

http://www.psc.gov.uk/news-and-events/news-releases/2007/postcomm-foru m--strong-feelings-and-diverse-views-on-zonal-pricing.html

We know who is next don't we.

Tax Payer funded industries sold off to the vultures

Railways
Water
Electricity
Gas
Steel
Coal
Buses
Ship building
Aircraft
Telephones
Ambulance Service
Prisoner Transport
Rubbish collection
Care of the elderly
Local Government services
MOD research


To follow ?

NHS
Education
Local Goverment
Military
Police
Fire Service
Prisons
Me and you

Any more ?

I've been in industry long enough to have seen the new thinking being implemented.

From the Thatcherite years it was all about core business, do what you do best etc.

Why run your own IT for example when your company is about selling balloons ?

Result: Over priced IT outsourcing, reduced services levels, less effective provision.

This has been the model that has been repeated up and down the land in every niche of business that could be identified as being profitable.

"Offshored" industries like call centres - the modern slave industry.

Outsourced contracts by the zillion.

Our governments are there to facilitate the needs of big business - nothing more than that.

[TonyGosling]

What a good idea, the posties can just boycott the business post and associated crooked contracts drawn up personally by Allan Leighton and Adam Crozier which is killing their profitability and continue to get paid as normal.
By the Way..... I've been noticing the proportion of junk mail and what mail is being processed by these vultures. Much junk mail and electricity bills etc. have Business Post franking marks .... these have a weird hexagram shape on them which I will now scan in as I can't immediately see any on Google images.
Okay just done that and I'll attach them to this posting. What, if anything, can these hexagrams/Stars of David mean???
Is it a curse??

see also Royal Mail's monopoly ends Tuesday
http://www.abcmoney.co.uk/news/0120061638.htm

[Disco_Destroyer]

Could it be a sun for a new dawn? and I don't think its necessarily a TNT symbol I'll look into it when I'm back at work I'm sure I've seen UK Post with that also.
This is from BTB's website explaining the Postcomm enforced changes:-

[TonyGosling]

Okay - check this for weird symbols. They're everywhere. Is it me or is this an unsafe level of weirdness?



It's the our very own counter-intelligence service MI5 crest.

[Disco_Destroyer]

Other interesting stuff
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23367357-details/The+Queen' s+head+removed+from+postage+stamps/article.do
http://www.idtechex.com/products/en/articles/00000338.asp
http://www.idtechex.com/products/en/articles/00000513.asp
still no symbol but would expect it to be quite innocent realy like Mail Cycle or some such as it appears to be revolving mail

[Disco_Destroyer]

[TonyGosling]

Help/advice needed from computer/network tekkie experts.

It's a conspiracy - yes ANOTHER one

The hellmail discussion forum at www.Hellmail.co.uk has vanished.

On the SAME DAY that the post office agreed to negotiate with the Communication Workers' Union one of the main sites posties round the country had been using to discuss working conditions and the dispute DISAPPEARS.

I have attached two pages from the google cache so you can see how the site was being used and how busy it was - the front page has disappeared from Google cache.

I did a whois lookup on who ows the site and it is as follows
An individual WITHOUT A NAME

[Hellmail]

Flattering to think we might be part of some sinister conspiracy theory (and in terms of publicity what better format could you ask for) but we actually closed our forums for two reasons, the timing of which is actually irrelevant:

1) It used a LOT of time and anyone that has ever had to run a forum will vouch for that. We actually shut the forum in August, some time before the postal strike ended as even I was finding it difficut to commit so much time to something that essentially, didn't pay. You can only do that for so long and we were asking a lot of moderators too really.

2) At its busiest it was clocking up 10,000+ visitors a day and the server load was horrendous. Many members complained about slow loading and posts hanging on the submit button and we were being pushed towards spending even more money on a dedicated server. We therefore decided that as the costs would have been prohibitive, we would concentrate on news. We did actually announce all this on the site way before we shut the forum as well as keeping everyone posted on what we planned to do so it certainly wasn't sudden. We didn't vanish - we just got on with a change in emphasis.

The new Hellmail actually has several writers who were originally members and although none of us wanted to close the forum, economically we had little choice.

A forum should serve a purpose, and whilst it did, I'm not sure the gains were in proportion to the work put in. As editor I also had reservations in terms of whether whistleblowing (and sometimes it could be) was helping postal workers put across what were important issues. Very difficult decision but I think we did the right thing. I still miss the Hellmail regulars very much but since that time we've become an important source for postal industry news not just in the UK but right around the world. As they say, no man is an island.

I don't actually mind the conspiracy theory - it sure beats a press release, but it was all down to economics and concentrating on what the site was really about - being informative. Sorry to pee on your fire but thats about it really.

PMC (otherwise known as Postmanchat) shut for similar reasons - time versus money. He worked not only during the day but most evenings too and with a large family, its a hefty price to pay. You have to decide where you're going when you run a busy forum including all the Why, What, When, where, How and if you dont actually know or can't rationalise it, it can be an expensive and time consuming 'hobby' that in the end, goes nowhere.

As for 'no names' thats because no single person owns Hellmail - its always been a collective and as neither I, Mark White or Dave Lynch work for Royal Mail, we don't have the connections to hatch industrial relations plots - and come to think of it, theres ANOTHER reason for closing it down - the potential for nurturing the power of paranoia. I'd rather go fishing myself - life is too short.

Steve Lawson - Editor for Hellmail

[TonyGosling]

Thanks Steve,

But you're not going to like my reply. Your HellMail forum seems to have disappeared again. The CWU dispute seems a long while ago now - but it is suspicious that the two times I know of the HellMail forum being pulled is back then and now with the post office closures. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

There doesn't even appear to be a place where readers of the site can post comments...?

Seems whenever it is really needed to deliver the goods and break new ground HellMail disappears. Anyway - all the past content should remain up on the internet because the discussions there were really very valuable to the nation. And it will pull in readers to your site.

It's up to people like us to provide a decent public discussion service when those like Leyton and Crozier who are paid to provide these public services are working for the dark side to destroy them. They've basically been bribed to pull the Post Office as much other UK infrastructure to pieces.

As a footnote - yes it can and does take time - but delegation is the key.

[Hellmail]

Thanks Tony.

Your points are all valid ones but we've not had a forum since August last year for the reasons I mentioned. It created enormous strain on the server and costs that were getting out of hand. I have two other jobs in charity work and have had to organise priorities based around that - ie where I can be most effective.

No one can mourn the loss of the forum more than I do as it was a important part of my life for a long time and I have not forgotten the moment I pulled the plug on it. It was so hard to do. We had thousands of members as you know and they became firm friends as much as members. Even the spikey 'Amber Leaf' who I didn't always agree with, is sorely missed. Always hopeful that he/she would contribute to the new Hellmail at some point.

I guess its also important to stay focused. Very difficult to keep politics out of the break up of European postal monoplies but at the same time it is too easy to get bogged down with it for the sake of it too. I'm also aware that as the buck invariably stopped with me, I sometimes had to (and still do) make tough decisions. The core Hellmail team met and discussed the scrapping of the forum over some three months and it was often heated I can tell you, but we simply had to get down to the maths involved. Had it continued, and lets face it, no organisation or advertiser would back a forum of that nature, we'd be running it entirely out of our own pockets and with the costs reached absurd proportions, it just simply wasn't an option.

I am acutely aware that the voice of the individual DOES count and DOES matter but I don't think Hellmail was the right vehicle for that. The net is a huge place and as here, there are always spots where you can make your feelings felt. Amen to that.

So yes, must correct you here. The forum ran from late 2004 to August 2007. It closed and that was that. I'm certainly not happy about Post Office closures. Short-sighted in terms of the wealth of potential products it could adopt, and hard work on local communities. We do try to highlight the areas that we think are wrong or unfair. I don't pretend I can stop it but I keep in close contact with decision makers and try to represent postal users as much as I can - balanced against maintaining sufficent respect to be taken seriously at higher levels - thats a juggling act in itself.

Hellmail will, I'm sure, continue to evolve but we have to be informative first and foremost and since January this year we've been working hard on expanding the scope of news and information as most will have noticed by now. By April we will have more time to look at all areas and how we might best cover them. Often we're the first with a story and frequently punchy with it.

We do welcome feedback - very much so. We have a talkback section for this and will (once the technicalities are ironed out) be making it easier for people to take advantage of that. Main hurdle is to get the core content going flat out before we can run.

Lastly, to all Hellmail members, regardless of viewpoints, thank you SO much for the time and effort invested in discussing so many sensitive topics. We were the first to do this and spawned others across Europe which have been successful in their own right. We have a backup of the entire Hellmail forum contents and will be looking at this again when we move to the next phase. One idea being discussed is a tag-on site that will restore the lost forum but for now we're concentrating on keeping everyone informed on the whole global postal market as well as pressing issues at home. Feedback would suggest that we're getting that right at least:)

Tony, feel free to mail me via the site. We have at least two resident writers that work in the postal industry and are about to gain two more from other countries. Don't feel you've been shut out -thats not what we're about.

Delegation is indeed the key but finance plays a big part too. Conspiracy theories can I guess, be read into anything but I don't mind that - nor replying to the question raised

Best wishes


Steve

[TonyGosling]

What about inviting your better contributers to put their hands in their pockets and get some part ownership for it - you know, like a co-op?

Thing is you had so much valuable experience and insight on the forum - that's now lost

[Hellmail]

The Hellmail forums did indeed became a platform for wider debate as you know and whilst it could 'sometimes' provide insight, it more frequently became a rant for a whole range of issues unconnected with postal services. Hellmail was never designed to be an open public think-tank and technically it wasn't designed to cope with such a high volume of visitors either.

If we'd intended to do that at the outset, we would have designed things very differently and established a regular source of funding. It demanded a heavyweight database as well as a dedicated server and with no feasible way of covering those costs (people will rant but assume the net is free), it just wasn't viable. In reality people won't pay unless they have to. Many forums face similar problems and they can in some instances become monsters that take over the forum owners life. In the end I guess you have to decide whats best and stick with it - not that there was any lack of soul-searching prior to that decision.. There was - much.

Even moderating is problematic and whilst you can delegate to some extent, they have lives too. We adopted a fairly strict forum code to minimise the increasing workload and avoid too much dominance from any given quarter and not everyone felt entirely comfortable with that, but by doing so it did maintain a good cross section of views. Heck, they weren't the ones doing all the work. I have no reservations about taking that stance although it was raised a few times. Short answer is that you can never get it right - you just do your best.

We also could not keep the original forum up online due to an increasing breakdown rate. It was so big, it was literally creaking at the seams and we seemed to spend far more time nursing it along than actually getting it going. It had exceeded capacity by June last year - hence the mad dash to decide what to do.

There are lots of places that serve a similar function though and I think thats to be applauded. Big corporations can no longer get away with certain things and I'm sure the internet has done much to expose cover ups. The Zumwinkel business has opened up a real can of worms and quite right too. Resigning should not excuse someone from total incompetence or from committing fraud.

I take your points onboard, but we had little choice but to do what we did. Its ok pitching in vast sums of money on seeking social justice but its not what I'd choose to do with my own life - thats a personal viewpoint. There are others more capable than I to do that and I have nothing but admiration for those with the tenacity to go for the throat but its not a course that suits me.

As for the whole Liberalisation 'thing', lets not forget that its being driven by Europe. Like many, I remain unconvinced that postal deregulation will benefit anyone except big business and in that respect we will continue to challenge the thinking behind it, and as far as possible, encourage others to make their views heard. With our output far more global than it once was, I see that as a positive step and arguably one that has more clout than a locked forum.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings. As I say, I can understand why someone might draw the conclusion that theres some sinister motive behind the closing of Hellmail's forums but like most things in life, often its down to sheer practicalities. Can I ever afford a holiday? How many MORE pairs of shoes do I have to buy my kids? We all have to deal with it. Hellmail is no exception. I am however, committed to ensuring that it continues to channel its energies effectively. Hey, its still here

[TonyGosling]

I take your ponts too - but as our social bonds and respected institutions are demolished in slow motion it is up to the likes of you and I to help people survive.
In a way we fill the gaps left by an infiltrated and undermined British government.

Check this if you haven't already seen it.

No EU - Common Purpose Government Infiltrators 9-15-07 Brian Gerrish
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3664960863576873594

[Hellmail]

Thank you very much for this Tony. I find it alarming. Will investigate further.

Keep in touch.