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Tamborine man Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 74 Location: Qld. Australia
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Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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in this reality or experience, when something dies it ceases to be in this reality. to us everyone who ever died has gone, they are no longer present, they have died and been dead for longer than they were alive in a lot of cases, apart for more recent deaths, their deaths still happened and still exsist. |
Thought hard about your ways of looking at things, but could only ever
see confusion at the end of the line, so will stick with the old tested and
tried:
Life will live.
Death will die.
This seems to make much more sense,
it seems to follow an inner logic worth following, imho!
But first it might be a good idea to take a closer look at what actually
takes place when the physical body looses it 'life-vitality' and the fine
particles, that before made up the various tissues and bone structures,
start to slacken, separate and finally revert back to the substance from
where the molecular particles originated; either through decay-bacilli or burning etc.!
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if you have a idea of true reality then please explain it, because in this reality(the one we experience now) everything i said is true.
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Well, I personally know that we human beings are made up of 3 aspects
consisting of the physical body, the astral counterpart (which like a
mantle surround, interweaves with and connects with the physical form),
and the spiritual body.
I know I'm not allowed to "know" this in this forum, so lets just say that
is what I think is the true composition of the human being.
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if there is other realities possible to experience afterlife, then we live on, but we still cease to be in this reality. |
Reincarnation, as far as I'm concerned, is an absolute reality, but of
course this view is not shared by everybody, to say the least!
For me, there exist no doubt that we will meet members of our family,
friends and relatives when we return to our homes in the
transcendental sphere or world, after we leave this 3rd dimensional world.
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so everything you have said is dependant on things we have no real proof about.
everything i have said is true to this experience in this reality. |
There's plenty of proof out there, but you'll have to have a certain
amount of desire to look for it before somebody can lead you in the right
direction!
By right direction, I mean of course to sources that are not known to the
wider public, and also far removed from new age channelers and the
like.
Rather more intelligently like, as Kahlil Gibran said it in his famous little 'forgotten' book "The Prophet":
'....
Forget not that I shall come back to you.
A little while, an my longing shall gather dust
and foam for another body.
A little while, a moment of rest upon the wind,
and another woman shall bear me.
....'
cheers _________________ What IS can never die |
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marky 54 Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 3293
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Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Thought hard about your ways of looking at things, but could only ever
see confusion at the end of the line, so will stick with the old tested and
tried:
Life will live.
Death will die.
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death dos'nt die, death exsists in this reality, and it is a part of it. death just dos'nt mean the end if there is a afterlife. but as far as exsisting in this reality goes you cease to be.
wether you can come back or do come back, i do not know, but if you do, you do not come back as the same person, the person you were would still cease to be, it would still be dead, and your new body/being would have to go through the dieing process yet again, meaning death does not die, it is a repeated process. death has always been assoicated with the pysical and never with the spiritual. to everyone in this pysical reality you would no longer exsist.
i was looking into this prior to your reply. so thought i'd link what i watched the other night.
who knows if there is an afterlife and reincarnation, i may come back after this life as brenda, who loves knitting, cushions, shoes, and pop idol.
a daunghting thought .
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4017638410243976888&q=Dannion+ Brinkley+duration%3Along&total=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plind ex=3
i'd like to believe this panel, but must be honest, i'm not sure if i want to believe it because i know its true or because i want it to be true.
actually, i'll add an experience i had when i was 15ish. it could be nothing, but was one of those experiences where your left thinking "i wonder". i was asleep in my room, i started to hear a banging noise in my dream, i started to wake up but still heard the banging noise i reconised as footsteps coming up the stairs, i could'nt move, it was like my body was glued to the bed, but i was still only half awake, the door to my room was then gently blown ajar, i felt a rippling of my bed covers and a wind hit me in the chest, as i felt this i was able to move and jumped forward, lifting my body up of the bed, as i did it i still felt the rippling on the bed and a wind, and i went ice cold. the door was ajar.
it freaked me out, but i thought about it, put it down to the fact i was in a near sleep state, put it in the back of my mind and went back to sleep.
but after hearing the panelists in the above link and other stuff , i'm now like, "i wonder". was i reentering my body? or dreaming? |
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Tamborine man Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 74 Location: Qld. Australia
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Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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death dos'nt die, death exsists in this reality, and it is a part of it. death just dos'nt mean the end if there is a afterlife. but as far as exsisting in this reality goes you cease to be. |
To clarify. There will come a time when "death" ceases to be. 'Death' will
be no more. This will not happen until the last of human beings has left
this Earth for good. This might take anything from 5 - 7 million years from
now. But who knows!
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wether you can come back or do come back, i do not know, but if you do, you do not come back as the same person, the person you were would still cease to be, it would still be dead, and your new body/being would have to go through the dieing process yet again, meaning death does not die, it is a repeated process. death has always been assoicated with the pysical and never with the spiritual. to everyone in this pysical reality you would no longer exsist. |
You will never loose yourself, or your higher self. That you'll retain
through all of your incarnations. Think of yourself as an actor who plays
many roles in his or her life-time. When the make-up is washed away
after each performance, the actor goes home as who he or she really is.
The same apply after each incarnation.
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i was looking into this prior to your reply. so thought i'd link what i watched the other night.
who knows if there is an afterlife and reincarnation, i may come back after this life as brenda, who loves knitting, cushions, shoes, and pop idol.
a daunghting thought .
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4017638410243976888&q=Dannion+ Brinkley+duration%3Along&total=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plind ex=3
i'd like to believe this panel, but must be honest, i'm not sure if i want to believe it because i know its true or because i want it to be true.
actually, i'll add an experience i had when i was 15ish. it could be nothing, but was one of those experiences where your left thinking "i wonder". i was asleep in my room, i started to hear a banging noise in my dream, i started to wake up but still heard the banging noise i reconised as footsteps coming up the stairs, i could'nt move, it was like my body was glued to the bed, but i was still only half awake, the door to my room was then gently blown ajar, i felt a rippling of my bed covers and a wind hit me in the chest, as i felt this i was able to move and jumped forward, lifting my body up of the bed, as i did it i still felt the rippling on the bed and a wind, and i went ice cold. the door was ajar.
it freaked me out, but i thought about it, put it down to the fact i was in a near sleep state, put it in the back of my mind and went back to sleep.
but after hearing the panelists in the above link and other stuff , i'm now like, "i wonder". was i reentering my body? or dreaming? |
Watched the whole 1 hour and 48 minutes of it, and thought they were all
very nice people. Liked the moderator. He was the kind of guy who
couldn't give a stuff about what you thought of him. He was just telling
you how it IS, take it or leave it!
I appreciate very much you telling about your experience. That takes a
lot of courage in a forum like this!
All I can say is, that if you had left your body, you would have returned
with only pleasant impressions from your experience.
Cannot comment more at this stage. (Wish I could though)!
Have also had many "strange" experiences that was impossible to put
down as mere physical phenomena, and also left me with the "I wonder"
thing!
Please check this site out.
The Logo that meets you is more than 10 000 years old and comes from
old Ethiopia. (Formerly, 'the land of Khuum'). Trust me on this one!
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/2064/ukindex.htm
Cheers
PS!
I got nothing to do with the site, but can merely endorse it as being
very much where I'm at! (In my search for what IS truth).
PPS!
So sorry, just checked out the site, and it seems to be no longer available
in english! It used to be! Now its only in danish! Hope you can learn this
language in no time!!
Will try to find another source, and come back to you! _________________ What IS can never die |
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marky 54 Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 3293
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | All I can say is, that if you had left your body, you would have returned
with only pleasant impressions from your experience.
Cannot comment more at this stage. (Wish I could though)!
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i did'nt feel freatened when it happened, the only part that freaked me out was the unknown, ie: being unable to explain, a) what just happened b)if it was real or if it was all sleep related c) me seeing my door open whilst half asleep and just prior to the experience, then when jumping up and fully waking up seeing that my door had indeed been opened.
so the freaking out was more to do with explaining it once it had happened rather than the experience itself.
thanks for the link.
like i said i am unsure if this is something i want to believe rather than knowing, but i always try to keep an open mind and check the evidence etc before discarding it. i'm going to keep searching.
also i am going to try to take more notice of my dreams in future, and write them down while and when i remember them(well, unless i have a saucy one, my partner proberbly would'nt appreciate it) , i don't know what it will achieve but it could be intresting. |
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Tamborine man Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 74 Location: Qld. Australia
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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like i said i am unsure if this is something i want to believe rather than knowing, but i always try to keep an open mind and check the evidence etc before discarding it. i'm going to keep searching.
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Here's another link.
I found the messages of "imperator", in Stainton Moses book
'Spirit teachings', absolutely fascinating. He speaks with incredible
authority and wisdom. I have no doubt this is a totally genuine
communication. Imho!
Hope you'll check it out!
http://www.meilach.com/spiritual/imperator/imperator.html
Cheers _________________ What IS can never die |
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marky 54 Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 3293
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Tamborine man wrote: | Quote: |
like i said i am unsure if this is something i want to believe rather than knowing, but i always try to keep an open mind and check the evidence etc before discarding it. i'm going to keep searching.
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Here's another link.
I found the messages of "imperator", in Stainton Moses book
'Spirit teachings', absolutely fascinating. He speaks with incredible
authority and wisdom. I have no doubt this is a totally genuine
communication. Imho!
Hope you'll check it out!
http://www.meilach.com/spiritual/imperator/imperator.html
Cheers |
Man makes his own future,
Stamps his own character,
Suffers for his own sins,
and must work out his own salvation
how true that would be if reincarnation of the soul is a fact! |
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Tamborine man Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 74 Location: Qld. Australia
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
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marky 54 wrote: |
Man makes his own future,
Stamps his own character,
Suffers for his own sins,
and must work out his own salvation
how true that would be if reincarnation of the soul is a fact! |
Hey Marky, try to read through this one, and se if it makes any sense to
you:
'Is reincarnation really necessary? And how is the Law of Retribution applied?
The purpose of reincarnation is to allow human spirits to mature through a gradual and many-sided process to the point that they are able to reject the influence of Darkness in all circumstances of life.
When human spirits undergo their first earthly lives, their spiritual egos—represented by thought and will—are but comparable to the faintest spark of the Light. Their earliest lives on Earth are then little more than a form of passive existence—of becoming accustomed to the human condition. After having undergone some initial incarnations, the spiritual ego begins to react to the guidance of the conscience—the guardian spirit. But it should be obvious that those individuals who stand at a very low spiritual level possess not as sensitive a “conscience” as do those more spiritually advanced. And since the new and the very young spirits predominate in the lower human races, the “spiritual laws” whereby a “savage”, for example, is judged, cannot be equally applied to a member of a civilized society. Savages, embodying very young spirits, are not yet able to respect human life or property. They cannot be judged alike, spiritually, as those humans who, through spiritual and worldly upbringing, have been taught to respect such values but yet, possessing this greater inner depth, still kill and rob. Not until the ego learns to distinguish between “mine” and “thine” and comes to understand the value of human life is there accountability for those sinful actions of whose consequences the ego is then spiritually aware. For the slightest violation of conscience must result in penalty—the necessity to atone. When the ego is aware that a certain act must by nature bring penalty, then that individual of free will breaks the law in committing that act, and by abuse of that freedom becomes subject to the Law of Retribution and cannot evade the consequences. Only full repentance through prayer can bring the forgiveness of God, and only appeals to wronged fellow humans can bring the possibility of their forgiveness and thereby remove the need for severe repercussions.
Human sin can be divided into two chief categories:
1) Sin against God and against the divine within one’s self. Only God can forgive this, and with His forgiveness the guilt of such sin is annulled forever.
2) Sin against others. This is of course also sin against God, but in such instances forgiveness must also come from those wronged before the guilt can be annulled, even though the transgressor already be forgiven by God.
Forgiveness of sin against God or against the “holy”, the divine22 within one’s self, can be obtained while the transgressor yet lives on Earth, if the guilt is fully understood and there is full repentance of the base, evil and unlawful thoughts and actions involved. Belief in the death of atonement of Jesus alters in no way human guilt of sin, and gives no remission of sin to anyone.
If humans cannot admit or repent of sin and guilt during life on Earth they must do so after their mortal departure, since all human spirits are confronted upon awakening in the astral spheres with a recapitulation of their earthly acts. When finally they do repent, God’s forgiveness is immediate and the matter is closed. Atonement is unnecessary, for God’s qualities of mercy and compassion, manifested of His love, stand above the Law of Retribution. (Toward the Light, page 306: 3).
If humans sin against others and, while yet on Earth, admit to such deeds or designs—thus repenting in full—but then are denied forgiveness when they earnestly seek it of those they have wronged, they can be spared repercussion through the power of God’s love and compassion. However, they must in new lives on Earth carry out an act of love for those originally sinned against. But the moment one obtains forgiveness from a fellow human, guilt is annulled without call for future atonement, for human mercy and compassion also transcends the Law of Retribution.
Should anyone wrong another and admit not guilt nor seek forgiveness of the victim while both are yet on Earth, the transgressor will after death be confronted in the beyond with the wrongful act. Then the deed must be meditated upon until finally understanding of its sinful nature comes, and grief and remorse awaken. But often then it is too late to win the victim’s forgiveness. It happens perhaps that the victim does not return from life on Earth during the transgressor’s allotted period for rest and learning. Or the victim may belong in a higher Sphere barred to the transgressor. Or it may happen that the victim returns to the transgressor’s sphere but will not forgive. In such cases, the transgressor must submit to the full severity of the Law of Retribution and atone later on Earth, that is, endure the spiritual or physical suffering drawn to oneself. Through such experience the transgressor learns care so that, if ever again tempted to do similar wrong, it is easier to resist acting against the conscience.
The Youngest are also subject to the Law of Retribution, but they acknowledge their earthly sins much sooner than do humans. Consequently, repentance and forgiveness comes easier to the Youngest who thus mostly avoid the law’s consequences. Yet even in face of a transgressor’s deep remorse it can happen that the victim for a long time refuses to forgive, both in life on Earth and in the astral world. When that happens, the one who refuses forgiveness is incarnated without mission, without service as one of the pioneers of mankind—living as any ordinary human. The transgressor then serves as the guardian spirit during the wronged person’s subsequent incarnations until the wronged one has overcome all anger and hatred. For any who nurture hatred, who are irreconcilable, are of no use to God in the work of love that the Youngest are carrying out on behalf of mankind’s journey toward the Light.
Therefore, while they are yet on Earth all should seek to repent of their errors, of their sinful and criminal thoughts and acts, and in remorse ask forgiveness of God as well as of their fellow beings before their earthly lives close. Much grief and suffering will thereby be prevented. The guidance of the conscience should be heeded closely in all aspects of life, for the more the conscience is disregarded, the more difficult it becomes to follow its advice, its admonitions and its warnings. By yielding to their own desires, their own base inclinations, human beings increase the number of their incarnations.
There is one provision under the Law of Retribution none can avoid except the youngest of human spirits, not yet able to respond to their conscience. Applying to the spiritual ego of humans and the Youngest and Eldest alike, this provision requires that all who commit acts of murder or in some other way cause loss of life of fellow beings, must, in a subsequent incarnation, save from sudden death the same number of lives taken. (Toward the Light, page 114: 6.)
However, this provision can be applied in different ways. Those judged and penalized under earthly law have nothing more for which to atone. But since God’s law requires that those who kill must in later incarnations save lives, anyone already punished under earthly law will comply with this provision through an act of love, giving them the protection of God so that they emerge unharmed from the perilous task. Not so for those who have evaded earthly justice. They are protected neither by the guardian spirit nor by God during attempts to save other lives. They never escape some form of harm, such as death, maiming, prolonged illness, burns, or the like. In other words, they must atone for past crimes with their own lives or with bodily suffering. Thus God’s Law of Retribution can in certain cases require a life for a life; however, the earthly courts of law have not a similar right. (Speech of Christ, Toward the Light, page 125: 3.)
Those who as earthly rulers, military commanders, or leaders of the people are indirectly responsible for the loss of great numbers of lives during wars and uprisings or through death penalties, can expiate their guilt in subsequent incarnations by saving a large number of people from impending catastrophe, for example through action to avert man-made or natural disasters, as inventors making safe otherwise dangerous occupations, or as scientists who find ways to prevent or control the diseases that are such a scourge to mankind in so many ways. God Himself ensures through this provision the correct balance between the human lives lost and those lives that in compensation are to be saved from premature or painful death.
The last two means of atonement apply only to the Youngest and partly to the Eldest, since human spirits clearly possess not sufficient spiritual stability to be inventors or scientists in life on Earth.'
Please tell me of your initial impression if you like!
Cheers _________________ What IS can never die |
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Tamborine man Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 74 Location: Qld. Australia
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: |
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I found a little addendum to the previous answer:
'In answer to Question 36, Supplement I, it is stated that the total time of incarnations will be longer in future than in the past. Assuming of course that the activities of the Eldest have greatly hindered and delayed human progress, and considering that these activities have now ceased, mankind should consequently make faster progress, leading to a more rapid completion of the total time of incarnations. But the answer to Question 36 is that the opposite will prevail—the total time will be lengthened. How can this be understood and explained?
This should need no further explanation beyond that given in reply to Question 36, where it is clearly said that the willful incarnations of the Eldest have brought disorder to the calm and steady progress of the human spirits through earthly rebirth. And since the nature of this disorder is explained with equal clarity in Toward the light, everyone should be able to see why both the total number and the total duration of incarnations will increase rather than decrease. However, since the logic of this appears difficult for humans to comprehend we will explain it further, though this would seem unnecessary:
First, above all, remember that millions upon millions of human spirits remained on the astral plane of the Earth for thousands of years, thus evading the normal succession of rebirths. These millions must therefore atone in times to come not only for transgressions in their lives on Earth in the remote past, but also for the guilt incurred during their Earth-bound existence through the incitement—by the influence of their thought—of human crimes, misdeeds and transgressions. Consider also the transgressions of humans while they lived on Earth during the time of the willful incarnations of the Eldest. All this must be atoned for in full, inevitably demanding a longer series of incarnations than previously needed for the earthly development of the human spirit—before the self-incarnations of the Eldest began. To the questioner this might appear as a gross injustice, but in no way is it unjust. This provision is founded upon perfect justice. Remember that the individual is entirely free to decide to give way or not to the influence of Darkness and sin, and remember, as often stated, that all human beings are guided by their conscience. Had the humans during that period followed their conscience rather than allowed themselves to be tempted or guided by the self-incarnated Eldest, there would of course have been no reason to increase the number of incarnations; for then mankind would not have transgressed to so great a degree. By studying world history from known ancient times to the present, anyone can learn of the misdeeds and crimes of the successive generations. But as humans are easily tempted, as they easily submit to the guidance of the emissaries of Darkness, they must also fully atone for what they have sinned. They were not compelled to follow the ways of Darkness. Had they so willed, they could have chosen the ways of the Light. At some time, millions of years from now, when atonement is completed—for there must be balance according to God’s laws—it is possible the number of incarnations can once more be reduced. And since those Eldest whom Ardor had incarnated will, at some time, be removed from the Earth forever, it is likely that, as time passes, man’s lot in life—and the circumstances for atonement on Earth—will be more favorable than if the Eldest had continued their incarnations.
In answer to Question 36 (First Supplement) it is stated: “. . .and since the sequence of incarnations of human spirits will be longer in the future than hitherto, the period of development in the worlds of Light will be of shorter duration for these spirits than for those who have been released from earthly life and now live in the worlds of Light”. The reason is of course that these first-mentioned spirits, through the numerous rebirths, will learn much that was unknown when the previously released spirits lived through their periods of learning and development upon Earth.'
Hope the following answers also might grab your attention:
'Words as we know them are of Earthly origin (Toward the Light, page 3: 3). Do transcendental beings also make use of audible language for song and speech? If so, do all spiritual beings speak one identical language?
All spiritual beings can use audible language in speech and song. They can also communicate by means of thought over short as well as over long distances.
The language by which God, His Servants and His first children—the Eldest and the Youngest—communicated and still communicate among themselves is very different from earthly language. No further information regarding this language will be given.
The human spirits in the spheres speak the earthly languages familiar to them, but can also communicate by thought if they desire. They possess no knowledge of the language spoken by God, by His Servants and by His first children. When these “speak” to human spirits, they do so usually by thought or in the language familiar to the spirits from their most recent life on Earth. (Regarding God’s speech to the human spirits in the spheres, see Toward the Light, page 186: 2. 3).
When the human spirits have been released from their earthly incarnations to continue their development in the distant transcendental worlds, they will also be taught the “Divine language”. Thus, all God’s children will speak the same language when finally gathered in their Father’s Kingdom. They will also be able to communicate by thought and, if they desire, by the earthly languages they once spoke.'
'The Youngest taught humans the use of speech (Toward the Light, page 19: 10). Why then are languages so different, so grammatically complex? Can the transcendental world advise if humanity ought to adopt an artificial or an existing language as a common tongue?
When some of the Youngest went through their first lives on Earth, bound to the human bodies that Ardor had created, their intelligence stood at a very low level. To enable the Youngest to dwell with the animal-like human beings of the first ages, it was necessary to limit and reduce their high intelligence to the lowest possible level. The spiritually life-giving cord that connects the psychic and the physical brains was therefore brought into contact with only a few sharply defined centers in the psychic brains of these Youngest. Consequently, the first groping attempts to establish any form of language were vague and deficient. And since these Youngest—the first leaders of mankind—were incarnated at widely scattered places across the Earth, it was impossible for them to communicate with one another. Guided by their guardian spirits, each had to think and act independently and according to the intelligence allotted them. It was thus quite impossible to create and develop a common form of speech for all peoples. However, with each rebirth on Earth the life-giving cord of the Youngest was interwoven with additional centers in the psychic brain, thereby increasing their human intelligence by some few degrees and enabling them to broaden the mental horizon of their fellow beings who then gradually achieved greater fluency of speech so as to be able to create new words, devise better sentence structure, and invent better designations. Even so, progress was exceedingly slow, groping and faltering, building always upon the existing but diverse forms of speech. Later, when human intelligence began to awaken in earnest, people themselves—within each nation—contributed new words to their languages, new names for objects, animals, plants and natural phenomena, and so on. Later still, when the discarnate Eldest began to intervene through the influence of their thought in what the Youngest were teaching mankind, they also left their stamp upon the various language groups. During their many and long migrations from place to place in the earliest times, in the pre-historic era and in the later age of ancient history, humans again and again borrowed words and expressions from one another, adopted them into their own language and in many instances built further upon them.
And when the Eldest began to incarnate on Earth, beginning around 12,000 B.C., these also improved upon and expanded the vocabulary and grammar of a number of the existing languages through the mighty intelligence of their personalities. Further development then took place in the course of thousands of years upon the basis laid down by the Eldest, or upon their linguistic innovations. The forms of speech of the many nations and peoples thus were created not in a single event. They all gradually developed over time from the primitive, hesitant and unsure attempts to build a bridge between human individuals—a bridge over which thought could be communicated in words that could be gathered into sentences and resound in audible speech and thus convey to others the thoughts and feelings of the individual and express joy, sorrow, passion, pain and suffering.
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Humanity must itself choose if it is expedient and desirable to adopt an artificial language as a common tongue, or to employ one of the existing, living languages.'
Whatever happened to 'Esperanto'?
Seems mankind are sticking to 'English'!!
Cheers _________________ What IS can never die |
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