Sunday - A Call For Unity

[spun]

While the mistakes of Boyle + Co have undoubtedly damaged the movement for some time to come, tomorrow (Sunday) should be a day of unity and these mistakes should not over shadow the overall mission.

We are all working on the same team, for the most part. We have one goal in mind to expose the lies of 9/11 and demand an independent investigation into the events before, during and since the tragic day.

We are strong in munbers and should not appear divided. It is a day of communications and networking - those who have embarrassed our movement should be forgiven.. for the time being.

Have a great day and here is to freedom and truth!

[Ally]

Is this guy real?

He's basically calling Jimmy Walters et al disinfo agents.


Why are some people so violently opposed to CONFRONTING THE EVIDENCE?

[spun]

Yes I am for real and yes, serious questions have been raised about Walters. It's not that shocking. Initially Tom Flocco had received lots of praise for his work - yet just this week the majority of sites conclude he is a disinfo agent.

There is no clear way to identify a disinfo agent, we must look at the message they are spreading. Unfortunetly Walters message has been somewhat flimsy and looks like an attempt to pollute the movement with information which the media can use to make us look like idiots. As does David Boyle.

[Seb]

What kind of questions have been raised about Walter? I think that if it wasn't for him, this movement wouldn't be anywhere close to where it is today. I personally think the Confronting the Evidence is actually a very good dvd, but hope that the new one will have a more honed message.

[futuna]

I agree ,the only people dissing Walters are the disinfo agents themselves,of course,well we knew that anyway folks right ? Truth be told he does it well !
Bless him,
futuna

[ian neal]

I really urge us not to polarise debate. This side are disinfo agents, no this lot are. Please.

It is true that this movement wouldn't be where it is today without Jimmy. The DVDs are an incredably powerful tool and we are very grateful to Jimmy for his support.

It is also true that our relationship has not been without its problems. Those involved in the tour and its build up know this but the details are not for here.

We are still hopeful that Jimmy will make available future editions of his DVDs for us to distribute. Note that as a campaign or network we do not endorse Jimmy or any of the speakers on his DVD, just like any other resource or speaker. In the words of Dave von Kleist: "we present the evidence and invite, you, the audience....".

It is also true that there has been criticism of Jimmy and about some of the material contained in his DVD and the 911 Inplane site DVD from which it borrows material. Because we don't endorse Jimmy, we have little need to get dragged in to taking a position with regard to any criticisms.

Given the controversy regarding the pod evidence in the states I think it is inevitable that the use of this evidence by David Boyle will provoke comment and that's fine. I just urge us all to aware of the divisions that 'the pods' has caused in the US and then choose a different way.

It's not that we can't discuss this matter but we should realise that it really isn't that important (unless we decide it is) and we should discuss this respectfully

We held a really positive if beautifully chaotic 'national conference' today. There is a lot we can improve on but to me the biggest positive is that we were able to work together despite any differences and unfamiliarity and found common ground

Just as much as getting the 'what we do' right, we need to get the 'how we do things' right

Pod people are welcome here and so are non pod people
Peak oilers are welcome here and so are non peak oilers
All are welcome including politicians, police and spooks, hippies and stock brokers

[spun]

[Justin]

Hi Spun

I have just looked at your profile about yourself when joining this Forum - there's not a lot there about yourself. We may have met yesterday but I'm not sure because I don't remember anyone introducing themselves to me as 'Spun'. I'm not sure I like this anonymity. Some say it is a form of cowardice to attack others without being able to be identified yourself. Let's keep this Forum friendly, constructive and open.

Cheers

Justin (Walker)

[Pikey]

Hi Justin,

No I never met Spun at the weekend, nor did I meet Ron Jonson or Daz
I did however meet people who were totally committed to working together and supporting the objective of the campaign: to a have a full professional independent investigation to reveal the truth of 911! It was a privilege to be part of it as well as carrying the banner for some of time during the march on Saturday.

Following our support for the campaign over the weekend I have been appalled to discover the content of the contributions following my thread on reporting on the BBC Question Time media breakthrough provided by Ron Jonson, Daz and Spun.

These contributions use the usual establishment tactiic of "playing the man not the ball" and the language being applied is IMO totally unsatisfactory and unacceptable. Their attack on David Boyle IMO is totally unfair and unreasoanble, especially when they are not prepared to substantaite their case or turn up to the annual meeting and show their faces!

For the record David Boyle attended the conference on Sunday and I also met "Abandoned Ego"

This website IMO urgently needs some effective moderator management and a code of conduct implemented to stop this unjustified anti social and aggressive behaviour.

I totally agree with you Justin. These contributors are cowards when they are not prepared to reveal who they are and where they come from. Please everyone dont waste your energy by using the same tactic and sending them abusive pm's! It achieve nothing for the campaign. Do though ask them to substantiate their case and convince us that the pod and missile theory is flawed. I am open minded on this and i do realise it is controversial and would not have raised it as a question on QT if I had been given the opportunity.

For the record my questions submitted were a shortened version of the following:-

"In the light of the compelling evidence contained in David Ray Griffin's book "The New Pearl Harbour" (second edition), foreword by Michael Meacher MP, and also the outstanding visual presentation by David VonKleist’s dvd "911 In plane site, the Directors cut" do our honourable members of the panel feel that it is appropriate to continue acting with impunity and denial of the fact that the official version of the events of 911 is a travesty of the truth?"

"In the light of the compelling evidence contained in David Ray Griffin's book "The New Pearl Harbour" (second edition), foreword by Michael Meacher MP, and also the outstanding visual presentation by David VonKleist’s dvd "911 In plane site, the Directors cut" do our honourable members of the panel support the global 911 Truth campaign to have a full independent investigation into revealing the truth of the events on Sept 11th 2001?”

"Is a full independent inquiry and investigation necessary to reveal the truth of the terrorist events of 7/7, the London bombs and who are the terrorists?"

I have revisited the outstanding article provided by Ian Neal in the thread "suggestions" and wish to paste it here:-

I post here the suggestions of Justin on how we should communicate with each other to prompt a discussion about how these boards should be managed/moderated. Guidelines to achieve real teamwork amongst 9/11 Truth activists:

1. Always treat people as you wish to be treated yourself.

2. Always be polite with your e-mails- even if you disagree vehemently.

3. A degree of humility is not a bad thing – leave your egos at home.

4. Always keep a sense of humour – a shared laugh defuses all sorts of
situations.

5. Embrace totally the philosophy of non-violence and peaceful protest.

6. Pervade a Spirit of Goodwill at all times – always try to be positive in
the face of adversity.

7. React and respond quickly to approaches made by people as well as
events and don't be put off by failure.

8. Look out for one another – a 'well done' goes a long way.

Can I suggest that this code of conduct, which was compiled by you Justin, is adopted immediately, put on the front page of the forum, that effective moderation is implemented, and that these contributors are thoroughly investigated.

I am well aware of the risk of infiltration by people who wish to destroy this campaign and no doubt there could have been a presence there at the weekend. I have no fear though, the success of this campaign is the no. 1 priority, if only for the sake of my children and future generations!

Finally many thanks to the London group for organising and catering for such a challenging weekend, special thanks to Belinda for the wonderful food on Saturday evening!

Look forward to continue supporting the campaign and attending next years national conference. I predict that it will be Bristol!.........what a sound and creative UK 911 Truth group, that compilation shortened dvd is just the ammo we need!

Happy creating

[spun]

[ian neal]

Hi Spun

I appreciate that reply. As I say on another thread, discussion of these issues is fine and even needed. I'm sure you are right that there is a lot 9/11 truth activism in the UK that exists beyond this site (I certainly hope so). What I would like this site to grow into is one of the principle sites in the UK where activists of all persuassions and belief can come to connect and promote local activism.

My only concern and that of Justin I believe is if we are seen to back or support any particular 'faction' or speaker it will prevent us building this unified movement. So let me provide a little background on Jimmy's tour (which I'm glad you appreciated).

Jimmy is an independent activist (all be it a very influential one based on his ability to finance things). Members of the London group linked up with Jimmy earlier this year. Amongst the things discussed was Jimmy's ideas for a European tour, but it always was HIS tour and not ours. We absolutely do not endorse Jimmy or the activists he chooses to work with any more than we endorse anyone else. If we had endorsed Jimmy by default we would become little more than a UK extension of www.reopen.org.

But we 'promote' Confronting the Evidence? Yes because DVDs are incredibly powerful and Jimmy made 1000s available to us at no cost. But equally we will promote other resources as they become available and there are numerous activists independently or as small projects busy copying and producing their own DVDs and will equally promote awareness of these.

I'm aware of flaws in the Confronting the evidence DVD and I'm aware of the criticisms some may level at the people Jimmy choose to appear on the panel. That is why we promote the line that "The campaign recognizes that there is a diverse range of opinion amongst 9/11 truth campaigners. The campaign does not endorse any one position. What we do say is when taken in totality the evidence overwhelmingly supports the need to reopen 9/11."

What the experience of working with Jimmy showed is the dangers of being too reliant and 'associated' with any one person and for any one person to have too much influence. That said we have so much to be grateful to Jimmy for and we hope to continue to work with him. I hope this clarifies the nature of our relationship with Jimmy

[ian neal]

Doh

That should be www.reopen911.org of course

[daz]

[spun]

[spun]

Ian Neal, I find it very reassuring that you do not limit yourselves to one particular way of thinking and are open to different strategies than those presently being displayed here.

I trust that most of the people are here for the right reasons even though we do not agree on how to present the information to the public.

I am afraid that all connected to 9/11 truth will some day be seen in the same way JFK researchers are. This is of course what those in the shadows want. Mixing fact with fiction, confusing those who are undecided.

If we avoid the visual evidence and stick to facts which cannot be disputed, I would say we have a very good chance of exposing the lies the public have been fed for the past four years, or die in the process as others have.

I think many do not realise just how serious this issue is and treat it as a game. I also include David Boyle when I say that, he is now protected due to his recent stunt.

After doing some research and speaking to people involved with his 9/11 group I have uncovered some startling facts about the man, which only confirm my initial beliefs. For the sake of the movement I hope the mainstream do not look nearly as closely as I have.

[Pikey]

Hi Spun,

I see that you have moved on now from attacking David Boyle and me and others and are now attacking the credibility of the Cumbria group (re your revelation to this website that 2 members are freemasons on the Blackpool QT media breakthrough thread). I am a member of the Cumbria group as you know, a small dedicated group of top quality people who all share the belief that the official version of 911 is a lie/cover up and wish to expose the truth by making the public aware of this and ultimately sharing the common goal of securing a full professional INDEPENDENT investigation. This group has no hidden agenda!

I see that you have revealed my first name correctly on this website, thanks for that, which really shows your total disrepect and inconsideration for others (you are fully aware of Justins code of conduct which I reiterated to you in the thread QT Blackpool).

I would have preferred that you had not done that because as a former public sector whistleblower I am well aware of the dark forces out there, as probably you are, as you reveal nothing about yourself on your profile presumably for protection. I respect that but when people like you attack people and play the man rather than the ball that respect no longer applies in my eyes.

You now claim you have met me. Based on the content of your messages and knowledge I suspected Spun that you were actually member no. 18 flamesong. For the record, I have contacted flamesong this afternoon and he has assured me that he is not Spun and has had nothing to do with the personal attacks and disruption occuring on this website, nor he says does he know who Spun is!

At this weekends UK 911 conference day I had my namebage on with my pseudonym and first name so perhaps you met me there Spun?

I reckon you first met me when you attended your one and only group meeting at Cumbria when you arrived with Flamesong and you met me again on Sunday when you attended the website meeting.

You were introduced to the Cumbria group as Ian (I wont reveal the surname seeing as though have not revealed mine but it has been recorded and passed on to the website moderation team) and it is my contention that one of your networkers consists of flamesong and that is were you are getting all your information from about the Blackpool group.

I totally endorse the response given to you concerning your Cumbria group Masons revelation provided by Justin. I am well aware of the secret society network and understand how it operates (for those who are not I suggest you read David Ickes books or website). If the two members who you refer to were 33rd/high level degree Masons I would have not got involved with the group. I am intelligent enough to know that not all Masons are bad just as not all Muslims are bad and realise the problem with the system is that it is rotten at the top of the pyramid! I discovered this from my employment experience at the local Town Halls!

The Cumbria group have worked hard for the UK 911 Truth campaign with very limited resources. If you had been at Sedgefield, the Sept 2005 Green Party and Lib dem conference you would of course know that. Have you been 911 posting? Tell us what you have contributed Spun because at the moment the evidence I see on this website about you is 100% negative!

Finally Spun if you are Ian, that £10 I gave you for the purchase of Ian Henshaws book (you were manning the bookstall at the end and there was no kitty so you were unable to give me my change), that my request for the excess payment to go into the UK 911 Truth campaign fund, please assure me that my request was complied with.

Finally Spun I feel that you should apologise to David Boyle, me and the others you have insulted as well as the Cumbria group and all those who support the www.nineeleven.co.uk truth campaign/movement.

Your actions have achieved nothing for the campaign other than to cause division.

All that you needed to do was to forward and substantiate your anti missile/pod stance. Sadly you have not this so MY own viewpoint on this controversial point remains undecided, I am on the fence, despite the evidence provided in Loose change and IPS which support this controversial theory.

"The truth will conquer all" is inscribed on a pillar in Rosslyn chapel. By the way Spun I am not a member of any secret societies

Perhaps Spun your first postive contribution to the website will be your substantiation of your anti missile/pod theory or even better to tell us about your Truth group (is it the Oxford group?) and how its progressing on a new thread called "Spuns contribution to the UK 911 Truth campaign". That would be positive rather than the negative contribution you have made to date!

Look forward to reading it. Any more negativity from you then dont expect anymore responses from me. I will respond though if you are misinforming or misleading readers on this website.

May the forces of love and light be with you Spun

[Ian]

Hi Pikey

I am not "Spun". I rarely post on this board, although do try to keep up with what's going on.

The money you gave me for the book did indeed go into the pot.

I have not posted anything against David Boyle.

As is posted elsewhere on this forum, in Oxford we had a week of events around 9/11.

Please try to have more evidence when linking someone on the forum to someone in real life.

[paul wright]

Hey Pikey
Wish I'd known all this stuff before sleeping in close proximity to you the other night (not out of choice but circumstance, understood)
All the paranoia and distrust of others is always an interesting conversational topic