The Europe Controversy

[Rory Winter]

The Europe Controversy



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http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=14190

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[marky 54]

what exactly is being discussed? just europe in general?

my stance is that if europe stands for freedom and democracy, why is it they are not being open about it and allowing the vote of the people?

it seems more like a case of 'your having it wether you like or not wether you stand for it or not' and given the bigbrother state being put in place at the same time it is very worrying IMO about what exactly the motives are for it. i don't like the idea of being ruled by somebody who was'nt voted in by the people.

how can it be called democratic when nobody has a say? i though democracy was the ability to vote for a leader, not having one enforced upon you without any say.

[Rory Winter]

Welcome Marky54, so you found it! Problem with threads in Controversies it's like being sent to the Gulag Archipelago. Nobody hears from you again because --unlike the Dustbin-- posts to this thread don't get publicity in Latest Topics. So it's a pretty lonely sin bin.

Anyway I thought I might as well move before Tony relegated the thread there. The idea of starting a thread here was that there might be a place where anyone could publish without being threatened in the way I have been. This, however, is a temporary arrangement for now with other developments in the offing.

My intention all along was to try and reach a point where all sides could engage in a discussion freely with no coercion, harrassment or threats or fear of saying the wrong thing and offending a particular interest group. My main interest is to establish a forum where all sides can meet to engage in dialogue with each other rather than a slanging match.

The European issue concerns us all on this island and the sub-continent. It's an issue which cuts across all political views and concerns the future of our societies. Hence the need to discuss it intelligently without becoming overly emotional or reducing it to a point-scoring exercise.

[zimboy69]

the problem with the EU is were getting it without a choice

they should give us all a referendum

if it really is good for the country then they will have no worries
they could tell us all the amazing things that we will get and how it will help us all


but i suspect that its mostly big bussiness that will have the major benifits

and here is the problem

for 99% of the population they will get nothing or less than they have now

so for what reason should they vote for the EU

[Rory Winter]

[Rory Winter]

... And so the point has to be made and loudly: it is not 'Europe' or a European Constitution which threatens the fundamental rights of the British. It is the fascist attitude of our own governments (both Nu Labour and Tory) which are creating the police state!

It is Britain that is the odd-man-out when it comes to the European Charter of Fundamental Rights. That is the reality. Yet what we read in most of the Murdoch media (utter lies of course) makes out 'Europe' to be the threat! These lies must be challenged by folk like you and me. The fascist policies of British governments must be challenged, by civil disobedience if necessary, and we must appeal to the European Union for help. It is our only, last chance!

This goes for all of us but especially for minority groups who are at the sharp end of the British government's fascist persecution.

The people of Britain are the victims of the treason of their own political leaders. In the name of God, how long will it be before they wake up to see the truth. The truth, not the nonsense that is being shoved down our throats by a Right wing, fascist establishment?

There is still time to fight these fascist chickenhawks. To give up the struggle before the battle is over is to be a coward and a defeatist. Worse still, to do so is to betray ourselves, our families and our most precious beliefs.

We must not surrender to them!

[Rory Winter]

Why are Tony Blair and Gordon Brown trying to deny us the Charter of Fundamental Rights?
Spy.blog, 23 June 2007
http://tinyurl.com/27uooz



What with all the media spin by the UK Government and the European Union and the shallow analysis and reporting by the mainstream media, we are puzzled as to what exactly has been agreed at the European Union summit in Brussels this weekend.

We are still especially worried about what exactly Tony Blair and Gordon Brown have agreed to with regard to the European Union Reform Treaty and especially, the legally binding Charter of Fundamental Rights (.pdf) These sort of follow the European Convention on Human Rights and the UK's Human Rights Act 2000:

Article 7 Respect for private and family life

Everyone has the right to respect for his or her private and family life, home and communications.

Article 8 Protection of personal data

1. Everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her.

2. Such data must be processed fairly for specified purposes and on the basis of the consent of the person concerned or some other legitimate basis laid down by law. Everyone has the right of access to data which has been collected concerning him or her, and the right to have it rectified.

3. Compliance with these rules shall be subject to control by an independent authority.

However, there are significant differences i,e, there are no explicit exemptions for the Government using vague weasel words like "national security" or "the prevention or detection of crime" or "public health" or "the economic interests of the UK" etc. which so much UK legislation has embedded into it.

Nothing seems to have changed since we commented on this back in 2004: Have the pundits actually bothered to read the EU Constitution ?

See also this confusing BBC background article on Charter of Fundamental Rights

Is there really a workable United Kingdom "opt out" from these clauses ?

If so, then why should we tolerate authoritarian Labour politicians who seek to deny us these human rights, which are enjoyed and legally enforced by the rest of the European Union ?

We demand that these existing human rights are upheld now and ratified by this UK Government and all future ones.
__________

Rory's Comments:

Although this article was published last June the points being made are still highly relevant. The Blair/Brown regime has cunningly cashed in on the innate Europhobia of the British (and in particular the English) by using a wholly unfounded disaffection among Brits for the European Union to exert pressure on other member nations and the Commission in order to extract 'concessions' from the Union, not in the interests of the common people but on behalf of the vested interests of British capital and the ruling classes.

The high level of ignorance and Europhobic prejudice amongst Brits was deliberately nurtured by British politicians and their attendant media in order to use it as a weapon against progressive European social and civil rights.

At the recent meeting at Lisbon, not only did the Brits insist on their right to opt put of the new Charter but went out of their way to water-down the Charter nevertheless. Proof indeed of the mischievous intent of the Brits to act as a reactionary force within the EU working, no doubt, in the interests of Washington's neocons.

The British, along with others on the Right in countries like Poland, are now seen by other Europeans to be a trojan horse for Washington. They play an entirely destructive role as an adversary of the EU. While doing so they ensure that their own people are kept ignorant of the deceptive game they are playing.

Ultimately, it is the British people who will pay the price and that they have now begun to do with Britain's inexorable slide into becoming a full-blown police state. The time has already come when those of us in Britain who consider ourselves to be rightfully citizens of Europe to mobilize ourselves against these tinpot dictators. All is not yet lost and I believe the time has come, as European citizens, to make a direct appeal to the European Union to help us protect our fundamental civil rights against an oppressive, domestic government.

http://tinyurl.com/3dyefr

[Rory Winter]

The Europe Controversy



This Thread has now moved to the Scotland Group at

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=14190

Please post there, Thanks!