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Hetware
Banned
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 20
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 Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: Are there any real 9/11 Truth sites? |
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| Are there any 9/11 Truth sites genuinely committed to Truth? I clearly don't belong on this site, though I do belong with the core of the frequent posters of substantive material here. |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I guess if you don't feel you belong here and out of all the myriad of sites out there proclaiming to promote 'truth' you have been unable to find one that fits your definition of truth, the option is open for you to set up your own truth forum and run it your way as opposed to moaning about the way others do it.
Once you have done this feel free to return here and use the bandwidth I'm currently paying for to advertise it. |
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Lee
Validated Poster
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 246
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Any site that allows uncensored debate to be posted and read (apart from overtly abusive material) could be considered to be committed to finding the truth. Whatever that may be.
Do you believe this one is? |
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Hetware
Banned
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Lee wrote: | Any site that allows uncensored debate to be posted and read (apart from overtly abusive material) could be considered to be committed to finding the truth. Whatever that may be.
Do you believe this one is? |
I accept your premise. The conclusion follows. |
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Hetware
Banned
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | I guess if you don't feel you belong here and out of all the myriad of sites out there proclaiming to promote 'truth' you have been unable to find one that fits your definition of truth, the option is open for you to set up your own truth forum and run it your way as opposed to moaning about the way others do it.
Once you have done this feel free to return here and use the bandwidth I'm currently paying for to advertise it. |
I asked a reasonable question in a civil tone. Speak that thou might be seen.
Last edited by Hetware on Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Caz
Last Chance Saloon
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 836
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Chris Walsh
Validated Poster
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 56
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know about there being no censorship, but this site is one of the better truth sites out there. I have certainly been able to verify a lot of 'truths' from discussions on these boards.
If there is any censorship - and I'm sure there has been - I put good faith in the fact that such censoring can be useful in order to avoid unsubstantiated claims infecting the search for truth.
That said, I am highly dubious about all kinds of censorship, since it is often used as a tool for directing arguments in a particular way, whilst avoiding other - often valid - directions.
I might add that since we're all fallible humans, we are prone to many mistakes and we should always remain humble and know what our grey matter isn't really capable of understanding absolute truth or reality. I think I might have paraphrased Huxley somewhere there!
Basically, by using this forum for debate, we acknowledge that we question the official story of 9/11 and many of us see how it - being a false flag agenda - ties in with other verifiable conspiracies that intend to deceive the people and bring about World Government.
Our main problems are that most people don't care like we do about the loss of freedom worldwide, and even amongst us that do care, being of differing opinions as to what and who is to blame, we find ourselves arguing about the solutions and such.
I'm having a particularly bad day today, folks - one of those 'Winston' moments of realising how truly screwed we are!
_________________
The promise of freedom will only come about when the last man to walk this earth lives out his days in dreadful solitude. Only then will we see the end of war. |
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Hetware
Banned
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 20
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Hetware
Banned
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Walsh wrote: | I don't know about there being no censorship, but this site is one of the better truth sites out there. I have certainly been able to verify a lot of 'truths' from discussions on these boards.
If there is any censorship - and I'm sure there has been - I put good faith in the fact that such censoring can be useful in order to avoid unsubstantiated claims infecting the search for truth.
That said, I am highly dubious about all kinds of censorship, since it is often used as a tool for directing arguments in a particular way, whilst avoiding other - often valid - directions.
I might add that since we're all fallible humans, we are prone to many mistakes and we should always remain humble and know what our grey matter isn't really capable of understanding absolute truth or reality. I think I might have paraphrased Huxley somewhere there!
Basically, by using this forum for debate, we acknowledge that we question the official story of 9/11 and many of us see how it - being a false flag agenda - ties in with other verifiable conspiracies that intend to deceive the people and bring about World Government.
Our main problems are that most people don't care like we do about the loss of freedom worldwide, and even amongst us that do care, being of differing opinions as to what and who is to blame, we find ourselves arguing about the solutions and such.
I'm having a particularly bad day today, folks - one of those 'Winston' moments of realising how truly screwed we are! |
You may be familiar with this slightly modified work of fiction:
| Quote: |
'I wrote it. That is to say, I collaborated in writing it. No book is
produced individually, as you know.'
'Is it true, what it says?'
'A description, yes. The programme it sets forth is nonsense. The secret
accumulation of knowledge -- a gradual spread of enlightenment --
ultimately a proletarian rebellion -- the overthrow of the Party. You
foresaw yourself that that was what it would say. It is all nonsense. The
proletarians will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They
cannot. I do not have to tell you the reason: you know it already. If you
have ever cherished any dreams of violent insurrection, you must abandon
them. There is no way in which the Party can be overthrown. The rule of the
Party is for ever. Make that the starting-point of your thoughts.'
He came closer to the bed. 'For ever!' he repeated. 'And now let us get back
to the question of "how" and "why". You understand well enough how the
Party maintains itself in power. Now tell me why we cling to power. What is
our motive? Why should we want power? Go on, speak,' he added as Germar
remained silent.
Nevertheless Germar did not speak for another moment or two. A feeling of
weariness had overwhelmed him. The faint, mad gleam of enthusiasm had come
back into Grossmann's face. He knew in advance what Grossmann would say.
That the Party did not seek power for its own ends, but only for the good
of the majority. That it sought power because men in the mass were frail
cowardly creatures who could not endure liberty or face the truth, and must
be ruled over and systematically deceived by others who were stronger than
themselves. That the choice for mankind lay between freedom and happiness,
and that, for the great bulk of mankind, happiness was better. That the
party was the eternal guardian of the weak, a dedicated sect doing evil
that good might come, sacrificing its own happiness to that of others. The
terrible thing, thought Germar, the terrible thing was that when Grossmann
said this he would believe it. You could see it in his face. Grossmann knew
everything. A thousand times better than Germar he knew what the world was
really like, in what degradation the mass of human beings lived and by what
lies and barbarities the Party kept them there. He had understood it all,
weighed it all, and it made no difference: all was justified by the
ultimate purpose. What can you do, thought Germar, against the lunatic who
is more intelligent than yourself, who gives your arguments a fair hearing
and then simply persists in his lunacy?
'You are ruling over us for our own good,' he said feebly. 'You believe that
human beings are not fit to govern themselves, and therefore --'
He started and almost cried out. A pang of pain had shot through his body.
Grossmann had pushed the lever of the dial up to thirty-five.
'That was stupid, Germar, stupid!' he said. 'You should know better than to
say a thing like that.'
He pulled the lever back and continued:
'Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks
power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of
others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long
life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will
understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the
past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who
resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the
Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never
had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps
they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a
limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where
human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no
one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not
a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to
safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the
dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of
torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to
understand me?'
Germar was struck, as he had been struck before, by the tiredness of
Grossmann's face. It was strong and fleshy and brutal, it was full of
intelligence and a sort of controlled passion before which he felt himself
helpless; but it was tired. There were pouches under the eyes, the skin
sagged from the cheekbones. Grossmann leaned over him, deliberately
bringing the worn face nearer.
'You are thinking,' he said, 'that my face is old and tired. You are
thinking that I talk of power, and yet I am not even able to prevent the
decay of my own body. Can you not understand, Germar, that the individual
is only a cell? The weariness of the cell is the vigour of the organism. Do
you die when you cut your fingernails?'
He turned away from the bed and began strolling up and down again, one hand
in his pocket.
'We are the priests of power,' he said. 'God is power. But at present power
is only a word so far as you are concerned. It is time for you to gather
some idea of what power means. The first thing you must realize is that
power is collective. The individual only has power in so far as he ceases
to be an individual. You know the Party slogan: "Freedom is Slavery". Has
it ever occurred to you that it is reversible? Slavery is freedom. Alone --
free -- the human being is always defeated. It must be so, because every
human being is doomed to die, which is the greatest of all failures. But if
he can make complete, utter submission, if he can escape from his identity,
if he can merge himself in the Party so that he is the Party, then he is
all-powerful and immortal. The second thing for you to realize is that
power is power over human beings. Over the body but, above all, over the
mind. Power over matter -- external reality, as you would call it -- is not
important. Already our control over matter is absolute.'
For a moment Germar ignored the dial. He made a violent effort to raise
himself into a sitting position, and merely succeeded in wrenching his body
painfully.
'But how can you control matter?' he burst out. 'You don't even control the
climate or the law of gravity. And there are disease, pain, death --'
Grossmann silenced him by a movement of his hand. 'We control matter because
we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull. You will learn by
degrees, Germar. There is nothing that we could not do. Invisibility,
levitation -- anything. I could float off this floor like a soap bubble if
I wish to. I do not wish to, because the Party does not wish it. You must
get rid of those nineteenth-century ideas about the laws of Nature. We make
the laws of Nature.'
'But you do not! You are not even masters of this planet. What about Eurasia
and Eastasia? You have not conquered them yet.'
'Unimportant. We shall conquer them when it suits us. And if we did not,
what difference would it make? We can shut them out of existence. Oceania
is the world.'
'But the world itself is only a speck of dust. And man is tiny helpless! How
long has he been in existence? For millions of years the earth was
uninhabited.'
'Nonsense. The earth is as old as we are, no older. How could it be older?
Nothing exists except through human consciousness.'
'But the rocks are full of the bones of extinct animals -- mammoths and
mastodons and enormous reptiles which lived here long before man was ever
heard of.'
'Have you ever seen those bones, Germar? Of course not. Nineteenth-century
biologists invented them. Before man there was nothing. After man, if he
could come to an end, there would be nothing. Outside man there is
nothing.'
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Hetware
Banned
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | I guess if you don't feel you belong here and out of all the myriad of sites out there proclaiming to promote 'truth' you have been unable to find one that fits your definition of truth, the option is open for you to set up your own truth forum and run it your way as opposed to moaning about the way others do it.
Once you have done this feel free to return here and use the bandwidth I'm currently paying for to advertise it. |
Feel free to add your comments. I have only deleted one comment thus far, and that was after a request for supporting evidence to which no reply was forthcoming.
http://vehme.blogspot.com/ |
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Ravenmoon
Validated Poster
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 410
Location: Sheffield
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Biggs
New Poster
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Greater London
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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this one is pretty good - allows discussion of various theories
http://letsrollforums.com/ |
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