No Holocaust discussion on this site

[simplesimon]

Re: The deleted holocaust thread.

Ian Neal wrote:

[fish5133]

[wepmob2000]

For what its worth, I thought it was a good call on the part of the moderaters, even freedom of speech has to have a limit. If the vast majority find the actions of a few repugnant, than who is right? In terms of realpolitik, on a campaigning forum like this is it worth repelling a huge number of good people just to appease a vocal minority?

Others forum posters have shown a constructive way forward, so why the need for circular arguments about numbers from a minority who seem only to post on one subject?

Personally I'm a lot happier to be associated with something that is totally disassociated from these odious denial and 'revisionist' arguments.

[karlos]

There seems to be alot of misunderstanding of this whole thing
i dont believe that debates should be censored

Zionists want to be associated with Jews. Not the other way around. I have had many contacts with Jewish anti zionist groups and people. Including Rabbis. Would the censors please accept this point ZIONISM is an atheist political system and has nothing to do with any religion let alone Judaism which is often tainted by this. Zionists try to convince Jews to join their ranks. But Jews will tell you that they consider the state of Israel an ABOMINATION and is a sin.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/about/mission.cfm
The relatively new concept of Zionism began only about one hundred years ago and since that time Torah-true Jewry has steadfastly opposed the Zionist ideology. This struggle is rooted in two convictions:

Zionism, by advocating a political and military end to the Jewish exile, denies the very essence of our Diaspora existence. We are in exile by Divine Decree and may emerge from exile solely via Divine Redemption. All human efforts to alter a metaphysical reality are doomed to end in failure and bloodshed. History has clearly borne out this teaching.
Zionism has not only denied our fundamental belief in Heavenly Redemption it has also created a pseudo-Judaism which views the essence of our identity to be a secular nationalism. Accordingly, Zionism and the Israeli state have consistently endeavored, via persuasion and coercion, to replace a Divine and Torah centered understanding of our people hood with an armed materialism.

In other words Zionism is Atheism and Anti Judaism.

Similarly there are many Jewish scolars who are opponents of Holocaust™ because they have realised that there was much zionist involvement and the main victims were religious traditional Jews whereas the main beneficiaries have been American Ashkenazis.
Have a look at this Jewish website before this page gets deleted:
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/index.cfm

And the secular Jews are on board too

http://jewishsocialist.org.uk/jewishsocialist.html

[Caz]

I met a wonderful Rabbi in Israel and I asked him specifically about Zionism. And I said that it gets bad press .... 'here too' he said. And he stated that it began as a specifically politically movement and that the religious groups then 'jumped on the band wagon' so to speak. (That is paraphrasing.)

He made the comment: 'There is a saying in Israel: A wise man says nothing.'

In other words, the lies have created such a mess that you are hardly going to get to the bottom of it.

Another Jewish student I met complained about the biggest part of the budget being spent on defence. 'It should be spent on education, and it's not, the teachers here are paid a cleaners wage' he said.

Great people.

(Some of the people I was with also spoke about the Rockefeller Foundation with respect. This surprised me, but we didn't discuss this.)

There is a book available on the internet; 'The Savage in Judaism'.... the further back you go it seems the closer the Jewish tradition conforms to the indigenous people's tradition.

Well the aborigines in Australia and the American Indians have sure been marginalised.

I do wonder if this tradition is to be thoroughly marginalised wherever it occurs.

The sky god in the aboriginal tradition is here:

http://www.astronomy.pomona.edu/archeo/Other%20student%20web%20sites/A lex%20N%20Smith/aborigines/death.htm

[kbo234]

The more difficult truths are to speak out loud the more they need saying.

If 9/11 Truthers don't get this then who will?

[Gerald Bostock]

[Gerald Bostock]

[TonyGosling]

Of course those that care not a jot for the reputation of this movement will attempt to bog 9/11 Truthers down in Holocaust minutiae. Which I have decided - in consultation with mods and users and in face to face meetings - has ended on this forum.

[Gerald Bostock]

[pepik]

Limiting holocaust debate is absolutely the right thing to do and is not a limitation on free speech, nobody's going to your house and telling you not to talk about it.

[Gerald Bostock]

"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." ~ Churchill

[ian neal]

Churchill. That famous gasser of kurds and war criminal. Great

[Gerald Bostock]

At the risk of being accused of discussing a forbidden topic by discussing the forbidding of the topic, I wish to share some observations about the recent change in policy on this forum. A review of recent posts should reveal what that policy change was.

I have to say that the very idea that some topics are too controversial for honest and sincere adults to discuss in public is arrogant, elitist, condescending and illiberal. One of the primary motives that drives me to participate in the 9/11 Truth movement is to oppose regimes that would impose restrictions on the free discussion of relevant information. I do not fear having my ideas and perceptions challenged. I believe that the Truth is stronger than lies. Indeed, that axiom is the unspoken foundation of Anglo-American civilization.

I know that I have been forbidden from speaking the Truth as I know it on this forum. This is a Truth that I sincerely believe is relevant to the stated mission of this forum. By forbidding this discussion the cognizant authorities are implicitly saying that I am wrong. In order for me to be wrong I must be either misinformed (unsound premises), logically in error (invalid argument) or simply lying.

Regarding the first two possibilities, I welcome the opportunity to be corrected. I am human and therefore can err. I do not wish to be mistaken or misinformed. To deny me that opportunity for correction is to deny me the ability to make informed and reasoned decisions. A state of ignorance and error is clearly hazardous to my well-being. Denying me this opportunity for correction is therefore a means of doing harm to me.

Regarding the last of the above listed possibilities, to wit, that I might be intentionally lying, that I take to be a serious charge against which I have a right to defend myself. To be accused of lying is harmful to a person's reputation and therefore his wellbeing.

To assert that a particular belief is incorrect implies that any person who professes that belief suffers from one or more of the above stated faults. It therefore does not matter that my actual identity is not known to the public. The harm resulting from denying me the freedom to honestly discuss the offending topic is done to all who share my beliefs.

Forbidding the honest discussion of a relevant topic is the quintessential act of intellectual tyranny. It is clear that several regular and sincere participants in this forum share be belief that the forbidden topic is relevant, and they also share my opinions regarding the facts involved.

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." ~ Thomas Jefferson

[TonyGosling]

The decision is final.

If you want to pick over the details of the Holocaust go elsewhere as of three days ago - Google is here.

Gerald Bostock and his various alter-egos

Alulim
Hetware
Usama bin Laden

all suspended for posting a fresh topic on this issue.

[Caz]