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911Eyewitness
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Joined: 29 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Ian
I think I see the problem.
Take control.
I spent many years trying to allow freedom in closed environments but the failure is in those with agendas finding a power vacum.
You did not seem to have the problem with the npt people and toss them without a qualm into a controversy pit. Why not give them a joos did it forum? Even put it on one of the other urls you have.
Focus is the key. Keeping the focus of the forum vs allowing it to run amok. There must come the point where you stand independent and make the choice without remiss.
Fact is, so much is a mystery as to how the British Crown "made" that nation. Britian made all the middle-east as it was theirs once. The creator must stand for its creations. I often wonder how the Brits were able to push that creation and what happened to the people who were there already? Sounds worse than what the Brits did to the Indians taking over America. But, it has nothing to do with the focus of this website.
Why do people think it is so bad to kick idiots into their place? You are far more tolerant than I would be. Freedom is not the right to spit on your floors. Moderate the forum to keep the focus. No blame there.
Cheers. |
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Anthony Lawson
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Location: Phuket, Thailand
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: Please check for anti-Semitism or racism |
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Please Sir! Is there anything anti-Semitic or likely to incite racial hatred in the following?
From rense.com — http://www.rense.com/general81/dot.htm
| wrote: | Let's Get This 'Holocaust' Straight
A polite request to 'German' Jews concerning the 'six million' figure
By Michael James in Germany
4-28-8
Dear Frau Knobloch and Herr Stephan Kramer (Central Council of Jews in Germany),
As an English journalist and academic author resident in Germany since 1992 who has been requested to write an historical and legal assessment relating to the so-called "holocaust" narrative, I am urgently and very respectively seeking real scientific evidence to support the alleged claims that exactly "six million Jews" were systematically murdered by the Third Reich.
I am requesting from you authentic, objective source material and archival references that substantiate these claims. I need to take receipt of verifiable statistics that prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that the "six million" figure is accurate beyond any dispute. I have repeatedly asked the German Government for authoritative evidence, but for some strange reason I have been supplied with no supportive information.
One may be given to thinking that my patience has run thin.
I absolutely trust that you are sincere and have no reason to conceal from me the real facts. I am seeking the truth and beg you to provide me with the very precise details as to why the figure of the alleged "sacrificial victims" is neither 5,999,999 nor 6,000,001, but an oddly esoteric and very Kabbalistic 6,000,000.
Knowing that Jews are scrupulously honest in their dealings with the Goyim and never tell lies, I trust your integrity and intellectual honesty in answering my question. Please be advised that I have submitted the same questions to members of the German Government, various legal bodies and other international agencies interested in such questions.
I am particularly interested in the apparently unlawful detention of men and women who have not contravened their constitutional and internationally-guaranteed rights to free expression of their personal opinions in respect to the scientific study of what may appear to be inexplicable historical anomalies.
As you may already know from past experience, I am an Englishman of Geordie origin and not easily dismissed with ostensibly polite questions, nor do I fear an illegal judicial system, the legitimacy of which expired in August 1990 (the now defunct BRD reparations corporation). Please bear this in mind when very humbly and respectfully presenting to me what I expect to be real, concrete evidence in support of your extraordinary claims.
I shall not be content until I receive a satisfactory answer subject to objective international peer review. I want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
With best regards, and in the name of God Almighty, Jesus Christ,
Michael James |
By the way, I do wish "Editorial" would correct the appalling misspelling in the title of this thread. We wouldn't want outsiders thinking we are pig ignorant as well as all the other things we are, according to some, rumoured to be.
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911Eyewitness
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Joined: 29 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Well, actually I would ask WTF you are asking about that when I was talking about something else.
Like stealing the stage for another agenda.
If I am talking about the exploding buildings in NYC on 9/11 I am not so interested to start a conversation about the Red Shield in Frankfurt. |
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xmasdale
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Please check for anti-Semitism or racism |
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| Anthony Lawson wrote: | | Please Sir! Is there anything anti-Semitic or likely to incite racial hatred in the following? |
I would say: yes. It reads as sarcastic to me.
And why the pedantry about the number 6 000 000 being exact? I never took it as exact. For example we talk about 3 000 being murdered in the 9/11 massacre, but I believe the exact number was slightly less. We tend to talk in round numbers. So what? When you're talking about a number as large as six million deaths in time of war, the chaos surrounding the situation would make it impossible to be exact. |
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paul wright
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Joined: 26 Sep 2005
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Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| 911Eyewitness wrote: | Ian
I think I see the problem.
Take control.
I spent many years trying to allow freedom in closed environments but the failure is in those with agendas finding a power vacum.
You did not seem to have the problem with the npt people and toss them without a qualm into a controversy pit. Why not give them a joos did it forum? Even put it on one of the other urls you have.
Focus is the key. Keeping the focus of the forum vs allowing it to run amok. There must come the point where you stand independent and make the choice without remiss.
Fact is, so much is a mystery as to how the British Crown "made" that nation. Britian made all the middle-east as it was theirs once. The creator must stand for its creations. I often wonder how the Brits were able to push that creation and what happened to the people who were there already? Sounds worse than what the Brits did to the Indians taking over America. But, it has nothing to do with the focus of this website.
Why do people think it is so bad to kick idiots into their place? You are far more tolerant than I would be. Freedom is not the right to spit on your floors. Moderate the forum to keep the focus. No blame there.
Cheers. |
Always so on the ball.
I think Ian has admitted that he's sick and tired of all this and wants to get rid if this forum to someone or oblivion.
You know I look at the front page listing, and dating from Kollerstrom's inane, ill-considered and self-immolating outing, so many threads, even those not starting with anything to do with it, revert to holocaust/Jews/WWII/Zionism confabulations
Are conspiracy theorists boring easily side-tracked single minded (ok contradictory mind-control status acknowledged) fanatics?
It would sometimes appear so
You know, I lost my brief listing as a mod, but still have the 'Power' and with regard to these threads, my finger sometimes wavers over the Lock or Delete buttons
You know, get off it. Get to the things that are happening now, including with Israel and Zionism. History's important as a nightmare, but it's happening again
This is all getting to look a bit tediously open to willful misinterpretation and will be repeatedly bandied about by the hostiles you are feeding.
Enough said
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Rory Winter
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TonyGosling
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Anthony Lawson
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Sarcasm etc. |
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Sarcasm - History's Nightmare and a Farewell to Free Speech
| xmasdale wrote: | | Anthony Lawson wrote: | | Please Sir! Is there anything anti-Semitic or likely to incite racial hatred in the following? |
I would say: yes. It reads as sarcastic to me.
And why the pedantry about the number 6 000 000 being exact? I never took it as exact. For example we talk about 3 000 being murdered in the 9/11 massacre, but I believe the exact number was slightly less. We tend to talk in round numbers. So what? When you're talking about a number as large as six million deaths in time of war, the chaos surrounding the situation would make it impossible to be exact. |
Of course it's sarcastic. Well spotted. But you tell me what else might get through to these people?
Are you another one who thinks that it is just about the numbers? It isn't. It is about everything that we've been told that turns out to be false or questionable. It is also about why people are getting put in jail for asking embarrassing questions.
So, if you don't want to know the truth, please, like Bob Dylan says:
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall...”
| Rory Winter wrote: | | Quote: | | You know, get off it. Get to the things that are happening now, including with Israel and Zionism. History's important as a nightmare, but it's happening again |
Absolutely right on, Paul. We should live in the Present instead of constantly messing-around with the ghosts of the Past. |
Now there is some more muddleheaded thinking. Paul writes that history is a nightmare, but that it is happening again, yet Rory wants to ignore history (the nightmare), and, presumably, its lessons, by not messing with the ghosts of the Past, which is likely to mean that he will have to relive the nightmare, which is what history was.
Confused? Not as confused as Rory, I would suggest. Next! Ah, yes:
| TonyGosling wrote: | I do not intend to allow ANY Holocaust discusion on this forum whatsoever. Except to mention it in passing as a particularly hideous example of genocide.
The Nick K issue is an exception because he is so closely connected with the UK 9/11 Truth movement.
It is not what we were set up for and is clearly being used to bog people here down in interminable and minutiae TOTALLY IRELLEVANT to 9/11. Anyone who insists should be warned then, if they ignore the warning banned. |
You forgot to add: IMHOP (in my humble opinion) with a silly smiley, although IMI (in my ignorance) would better describe your attitude. Just who are you to be dictating to the rest of this forum, and holding what you believe to be “TOTALLY IRELLEVANT to 9/11” over our heads, to be banished, without being heard by a jury of our peers, at your whim?
The Nick Kollerstrom issue is germane to whether or not any mention of the Holocaust should be a part of the 9/11 issue, because he is a supporter of the 9/11 TRUTH movement, but he has just lost a university grant for daring to disagree with the official Holocaust line, rather he prefers to speak what he believes to be the TRUTH about it.
So what due process was instituted to strip him of his grant? None at all.
No approach to the Public Prosecutor to determine whether or not a crime had been committed.
No duly constituted court of law.
No judge.
No formal prosecution and no defence to be heard.
No jury of his peers to determine his guilt, or otherwise.
No public outcry, as far as I can tell.
Allan Dershowitz, currently under suspicion of being a plagiarist, has just done something similar to the author or “The Holocaust Industry”, Norman Finkelstein, ensuring that DePaul University withdrew an offer of tenure.
Do you know what you are doing, Mr Gosling, when you ban a subject from open discussion? You are opening the door for any other issue to be the subject of a similar ban, and that means you are endangering free speech. It’s already a crime to question anything to do with the Holocaust in Germany, Austria, France, Canada and Italy, and it’s on its way to becoming a crime in the United States, Australia and the European Union, while right here on this website we have a current thread titled: "Jewish group applauds web censorship".
So what are they hiding?
Anyone who wilfully decides to ignore, or worse, encourage this trend, is selling his or her children’s heritage down the river for a momentary bit of peace and quiet, power, or worse: Money.
Which is it with you, Censor Gosling?
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Dogsmilk
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | and it’s on its way to becoming a crime in the United States, Australia and the European Union, |
Interesting. What evidence do you have for an impending change to the extisting laws in these countries?
| Quote: | | he has just lost a university grant for daring to disagree with the official Holocaust line |
I thought it was an unpaid honoury position awarded at their discretion. Is this incorrect?
I don't like things being banned. I still remember feeling irritated when the striking gore collage that appeared on the inner gatefold of symphonies of sickness by Carcass was banned. Even though it didn't affect me as I bought it on vinyl as soon as it was released.
But then if I wanted to talk about extreme metal on a 911 forum all the time and those that ran it decided to stop me as they thought it was inappropriate for their forum - maybe they didn't want their campaign inextricably associated with Morbid Angel, Deicide and Cattle Decapitation - I'd be a very silly billy if I thought it was some grand freedom of speech issue. I'd just go to a metal forum and talk about it there.
Or start up my own "911 and heavy metal" forum.
_____________________________________________________________
I want to talk about this album!
It totally rocks and IT IS MY RIGHT to discuss it at length!
And the drummer died in a car crash! (RIP) He was an outstanding drummer and I DEMAND a thread devoted to him. Or else you are all Nazis.
Various efforts have been made to ban or censor this stuff over the years. Just look at all that trouble Glen Benton had off Christian groups in the early nineties.
If this forum stops me dissecting this album in minute detail on a number of threads, it is simply displaying zero regard for freedom of speech and you are threatening the very lives of our children.
So Mr Gosling - what do you think of the proposition that Morbid Angel went down the tubes a bit after the peak of formulas fatal to the flesh? Or are you simply going to ban this important issue from your forum? |
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brian
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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So we can mention the holocaust but only in the context of it being -
"..a particularly hideous example of genocide."
This from the man who after claiming the evidence he has seen supports the official position refuses to to post that evidence.
We can post any old nonsensical speculation regards the weird and wonderful but we must not mention the singular event that is unrelentingly made part of our existence in every conceivalbe way. Even legally for many.
Were the holocaust true it would be largely due to the cowardly actions or inactions we are seeing here.
An eloquent plea -
Proof (concerning the Holocaust) not allowed by law in Germany! Defense of Ursula Haverbeck
http://www.australiafreepress.org/articles/ursula_haverbeck.htm
As I have said before, if the board is to be Sept 11 related ONLY then fine.
If it is to be - the bigger picture and a quest for truth - then to ban such a seminal subject makes it a non starter. Perhaps the idea? |
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Rory Winter
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Now there is some more muddleheaded thinking. Paul writes that history is a nightmare, but that it is happening again, yet Rory wants to ignore history (the nightmare), and, presumably, its lessons, by not messing with the ghosts of the Past, which is likely to mean that he will have to relive the nightmare, which is what history was.
Confused? Not as confused as Rory, I would suggest. |
I must make clear what I meant by what I admit was a clumsily-worded statement:
What I meant was that while people dwell on the Shoa Holocaust of nearly seventy years ago, the current Holocaust (again anti-semitic but lacking the Nazi ideology) that is being conducted by not Nazis, but by OUR governments (primarily the US and the UK) against the mainly Muslim peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan is no different in its result: the death of 8 Million or more humans.
Outside of a forum like this, the Muslim Holocaust is hardly known. When I recently brought it to the attention of Rachel 'North' she ran away in panic and in her characteristic manner removed both posts from her blog in which I had mentioned it. Clearly, she is a gentile supporter of the murderous Israel or Zionist Lobby.
I have tried to point out in other posts on this Forum where I think our fashionable and politically correct attitude towards the Shoa Holocaust comes from: it is embedded in the centuries-old myth of the Crusading Christ that dwells in the psyche of White Culture.
It is that ghost that needs exorcising.
I think it is vital that we should challenge and rubbish the Israel Lobby for what it is. But a mere, piecemeal discussion of this and that regarding the Shoa Holocaust, about swimming pools and orchestras, about whether Zyklon-B was only used for delousing or for the gassing of humans, really gets no one anywhere of any use or relevance to the horrors going on in the Present Day.
"we too believe that to those
Who in face of the approaching bomber squadrons of Capital go on asking too long
How we propose to do this, and how we envisage that
And what will become of their savings and Sunday trousers after a revolution
We have nothing much to say."
The urgency of Brecht's statement applies, I maintain, equally to old men who have nothing better to do than to sit around discussing the gory details of the past as if they were a means of entertainment or distraction from the reality of what surrounds them.
Let's discuss the past by all means. But let's do that within the context of what is going on around us as we sit in the relative safety of our homes while the bombs are dropping out of the 'bomber squadrons of Capital' in the distance where mass murder is being carried out in our names.
Do I make my point?
Postscript: Having said this, I believe that the shameful manner in which Nick has been treated by the UCL is something that should not be swept under the carpet. It should be challenged in the courts.
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TonyGosling
Editor
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Ian Neal has informed me by PM that the 'vote' as to whether Anthony Beckett or myself will run this forum will be completed by tomorrow midnight - which as people may know is Walpurgisnacht. Midnight is the occasion of the primary satanic Sabbat of the year. Yeah, no anti-Christian bias there then 
It will likely be a London Neal mates cult stitch up because.
1. Ian Neal has not approached me with any proper statement explaining how or when he intends to hold an 'election' and so I have not prepared any election manifesto in consultation with my 7 moderators. In stead he has asked me to 'negotiate with Anthony' who said he's going to get back to me over whether the West Yorkshire group wants me to continue as a moderator but hasn't. Incidentally Ants. does not even have the confidence of the West Yorkshire group activists who called me yesterday.
2. I am Bristol 9/11 Truth rep. and haven't been even approached to canvass views of the Bristol group.
If this is the way ol' Ian Neal operates as judge, jury and returning officer then he is just as bad as the lying, cheating corporates we are supposed to be moving beyond. Unfortunately this duplicity and playing favourites is what I have come to expect from him after the Andrew Johnson debacle last year. I've not recieved a single call on the issue.
Whilst I'm looking forward to handing the editorship of this site on I am also aware that it has been done in the most cowardly, undemocratic and despicable way, reminiscent of a cult-like clique, with absolutely no interest in either fairness or making the 'election' or 'voting' procedure clear.
Of course the movement as a whole will insist on a full election report with voters named and the way they voted made public to mitigate against the cultish and shoddy way in which this 'election' has been conducted. The whole procedure has been a rush job and an artificial linking of this 'election process' with the entirely seperate issue of transfering to the new domain would be laughable if the issues we discuss here were not so serious.
We wait to see what happens on Walpurgisnacht to one of the best 9/11 Truth news sites on the web after this piffling game of Neal's has played out.
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Last edited by TonyGosling on Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kbo234
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Who is allowed to vote on this issue?
Can we all cast a vote? If so mine's for Tony.
Although I disagree with some of his editorial actions, he has worked very hard for us all on this site and he is an honest and decent man.
Come on....why should we accept a closed system that can possibly be manipulated (even if it isn't being).
Shouldn't users of this site (maybe posters of over a certain smallish number of[say100] posts) all get a vote?
We could carry out the election right here......
........as openly as you like! |
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TonyGosling
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Frazzel
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: forum election |
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good question. can we all vote? how and where do we vote?
personally i think it shouldnt be run by just one person but by some sort of collective. ie no need for a vote then as both contenders could work together. However, if this isnt being presented as a choice but an either or situation,
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TonyGosling
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Rory Winter
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Rory Winter
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TonyGosling
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karlos
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Surely certain things should be gleaned from Ian's past writings.
The 911 truth campaign has done everything it can to distance itself from this forum ie: is NOT INVOLVED IN THIS FORUM
so why the committee of the 911 truth campaign vote on what happens to a forum it is not involved with?
surely the decisions as to who runs the forum should be made by all active members of the forum, including posters, critics and moderators, etc
The 911 truth campaign is not a membership campaign and the committee was appointed rather than elected but in any case has made it very clear that they are not conected with this forum. I have participated in many meetings , attended many events, stuck my hand in my pocket, but i have never been once asked to vote for anyone or anything. So how exactly can so many people argue about democracy and facism on this forum yet when the future of the forum is the topic only a small politburo get to decide. A small politburo of super delegates decides and Simon Aronowitz and Ian Neale hold a presidential veto over the whole thing anyway.
Dont get me wrong i know many of them and recognise that they are committed and dedicated truth seekers. But surely we must practice what we preach and decide this matter on a democratic basis.
Which means members of this forum decide the future of this forum.
There is no reason why Tony and Anthony could not share control.
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paul wright
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Walpurgisnacht eh? Good one Tony. And then the consortia X take over - maybe or maybe not. Well that X is a good known occult symbol of the Nazis, occultists, Church of Rome and royalty. Let's see which way the dice rolls and tumbles.....in this ceremony....
Sorry - can't avoid feeding the paranoia
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Rory Winter
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paul wright
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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I should imagine that little x in the box is taken as your consensus to the whole charade of elective government. It's their secret little symbol indeed, Rory. I never take the piss,much
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TonyGosling
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Rory Winter
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Code: | | I should imagine that little x in the box is taken as your consensus to the whole charade of elective government. |
I guess that means you belong to the 'Don't Vote, It Encourages Them' contingent. Well, if so you have my sympathies & I fully empathise with your feelings about it being a charade.
Personally I feel it would be better to ban politicians altogether and replace them with a global computer administration programmed with pro-life, pro-human values to run the planetary biosystem in a moneyless society.
But then the problem is you'll still have the danger of some X'tian Fundamentalist fanatic computer programmer coming along who thinks that he is the Crusading Christ & everyone else is wrong & needs to get done in when he gets in charge ...
The Muslim idea of a Khalifa (Caliphate) seems a good one with a ruler Caliph who is accountable & removable along with the re-introduction of the Gold Standard & the banning of usury. Not quite the Moneyless Society but perhaps the next best thing?
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ian neal
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Ultimately this comes down to ensuring that we find a way forward that best refelcts opinion amongst 9/11 truth activists in this country. I've proposed one way to try and do this, but I am open to other proposals and having briefly spoken with Tony this evening Tony has suggested an alternative. In terms of what I'm interested in, I'm more concerned with how this decision is made rather than what the ultimate outcome is and that whatever the outcome is, it is widely seen to have been made in an open and transparent way and not due to any hidden agendas or subterfuge. Honestly I have stated my feelings about public forums and why I no longer wish to be involved in this one (atleast in its management). I want to stop paying the bills and want an amicable settlement as soon as is feasible. That's all. |
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Pikey
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TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
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paul wright
Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well it would seem that the lovely Larry's satirical interpretation has the very slightest grain of truth in it
Tony's hated blue coloured sabre contains the essence of a kind of conservatism, as regarding the holding of traditional values, the rejection of both far out theories and Rory's EU theories
Anthony adheres to more far out theories, is more libertarian, will allow more on and of course carries the red sabre.
Of course in these times these are totally topsy turvy images apropos of nothing very real
Anyway, were it to come to a vote, whilst I painfully straddle a fence, with lots of incoming data pushing me one way and then the other, and given that I don't really believe in this kind of strife,-given that anthony doesn't really participate in forums, but has identified proxies to do so, then I'd take the position on his behalf were this it the way it was worked out.
Struth
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http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction |
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Larry O'Hara
Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 96
Location: depends
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| I know you lot are incapable of research, and don't know the rules of evidence, but for anybody else reading, I am not responsible for Truthwatch, but certainly think it a good laugh & rather accurate in large part. This does not mean I am responsible--nor is Agent Q or any others in our cultwatch team.. |
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