UK WTC (Whole truth coalition)

[Mick Meaney]

Anti-semitism is racism.

I think you need to start reading what I'm posting.

[Justin]

Your use of the word 'racism' suggests that we are not just 'anti-semitic', but that we like to pick on other races as well.

Now, where are these minutes? Please produce the evidence.

[kbo234]

[kbo234]

Mr Meaney,

Does posting this make me a racist?

June 7, 2008

Middle East Pop Quiz

by Charley Reese


It's time for another pop quiz on America's favorite region of the world – the Middle East. Let's get started with the subject of nuclear weapons.

Which country in the Middle East actually possesses nuclear weapons?

Israel.

Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty?

Israel.

Which country in the Middle East refuses to allow international inspections of its nuclear facilities?

Israel.

Which countries in the Middle East have called for the region to be a nuclear-free zone?

The Arab countries and Iran.

Which country in the Middle East occupies land belonging to other people?

Israel, which occupies a piece of Lebanon, a larger piece of Syria, East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza.

Which country in the Middle East has for 60 years refused to allow refugees to return to their homes and refused to consider compensation to them for their lost property?

Israel.

Which country has roads on which citizens who are Arab may not drive and housing developments where Arabs may not live?

Israel.

Which country in the region has violated more United Nations resolutions than any other?

Israel. The United States has on more than one occasion gone to war ostensibly to enforce U.N. Security Council resolutions, but when it comes to resolutions directed against Israel, the U.S. is like the amoral monkey that sees, hears and says nothing. That raises the question of who's the dog and who's the tail?

Which country in the region has in the past been led by men who at one time were terrorists with a price on their heads?

Israel. Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir once led the Stern Gang and ordered, among other things, the assassination of Count Folke Bernadotte, a Swedish diplomat working for the United Nations. Former Prime Minister Menachem Begin led the Irgun, a terrorist gang that among other things blew up one wing of the King David Hotel, killing nearly 100 people.

Which country in the Middle East openly employs assassination against its political enemies?

Israel. There have been assassinations carried out by some of the Arab governments, but they usually don't own up to them. Israel has created a euphemism that the suck-up American press has readily adopted: "targeted killings." A British journalist told me once, "The Palestinians have a talent for picking bad leaders, and the Israelis have a talent for murdering their good ones."

What are the top five countries from which we import oil?

Here they are in order of volume: Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Nigeria and Venezuela. The next time you hear some blowhard politician ranting about how the Arabs control our oil imports, remind him or her of the facts. By far, a majority of oil imports come from non-Arab countries.

Which country in the region receives an annual gift of $3 billion or more from Congress?

Israel.

Which foreign-aid recipient is the only one allowed to receive its aid in a lump sum and which routinely invests part of it in U.S. Treasuries so that taxpayers pay them interest on the taxpayers' gift?

Israel.

Which country in the Middle East has the most powerful lobby in the U.S.?

Israel.

Which country in the Middle East are most American politicians, journalists and academics afraid to criticize?

Israel.

On behalf of which country has the U.S. vetoed the largest number of U.N. Security Council resolutions?

Israel.

What country do the people in the region consider the world's biggest hypocrite?

The United States.

Which countries in the Middle East have attacked U.S. ships in international waters?

Iraq and Israel. A lone Iraqi plane fired one missile at a U.S. ship by mistake. The Iraqi government quickly compensated the U.S. In 1967, Israeli airplanes and torpedo boats attacked the USS Liberty, killing 34 Americans. The U.S. government declared it an accident even before the ship limped into port, and to this day Congress has never held a public hearing and allowed the survivors to tell their story. Their story, by the way, is that the attack was deliberate. Israel compensated the families of those who were killed, but resisted for years paying compensation for the ship.

Just to remind you....the reason that some of us 'go on' about Zionism and Israel is because WE SUPPORT THESE PEOPLE.

.....and some of us don't like it.

[Mick Meaney]

[kbo234]

[Justin]

[ian neal]

The 9/11 truth movement is most certainly not anti-semitic, in as much as to campaign for 9/11 truth is to be anti-semitic.

That is not to say that unfortunately there are not some anti-semites in our midst, in much the same way as you will find anti-semites and racists in all walks of life.

Some are easily identified, for example some users who posted anti-semitic content and links to anti-semitic sites in the holocaust thread. These posters were subsequently banned.

But let's also be clear criticism of Israel or zionism is not anti-semitic.

[kbo234]

[Mick Meaney]

[Justin]

Mick, I asked for the other minutes you said you had, and you have refused to provide them. Your accusations are completely baseless.

[Stefan]

[Edited for pointlessness]

[Mick Meaney]

[Snowygrouch]

Dear all,
I`m not going to inerfere in this one bit other than to say this thread is NOT suited to being in public domain.

The arguments are not involving the public and are basically a "dispute resolution" script.

There is a time and place for everything and this ISNT the place.

Calum

[Mick Meaney]

Fair enough Calum, you're right. I'm going cease taking part in this thread (but if I am attacked I will defend myself).

[B]

GOSH! I don’t often visit this forum these days I have to confess, for the reason I’m a) too busy (with practical matters, including campaigning!) b) don’t like all the bickering, prefer harmony

But I can’t sit by while two friends go at each other’s throats. Mick’s objections to our new WTC initiative are par for the course, although somewhat odd coming from a person who I’m told himself worked previously with David Icke and has shown definite interest in ‘wider reality’ issues as we all have. You don’t just stop at 9/11, you go right on!

But Mick you can’t seriously think that Justin or anyone else at the heart of this movement is anti-semitic/racist?? Even if the Z-word has tripped off our tongues at various junctures in the struggle to understand, we’ve all been there momentarily I’m sure.

May I gently remind you that labelling people anti-Zionist=anti-semitic is the PTB’s standard method of discrediting people like us, along with calling us Conspiracy Theorists. Being a ‘deep-agenda-ist’ I subscribe to the view that the holocaust was orchestrated for precisely that reason, to make it thereafter impossible to attack the so-called Zionist agenda (as laid out in the fictitious Protocols) which they set up to be our main bogeyman and to bolster its latter-day incarnations such as the B’nai Brith organisation, the Simon Wiesenthal Centre etc. AND make it impossible to criticise Israel, or the big bankers or the Neo-Cons, most of whom are of Jewish extraction AND to wonderfully muddy the waters of the WOT, starting with 9/11 – I’m pretty sure that the insider-trading scam, the tipping-off of the Jewish employees of WTC and the ‘5 dancing Israelis’ were all thrown into the mix deliberately so that the ‘anti-semitic’ button’ could be pressed over and over again – whenever anyone started poking their nose too closely into 9/11 they’d come up against those facts and bingo! in the bag they’d be!

Q.e.d., so why Mick are you using the other side’s standard ploy? And tarring us all with this same brush?!! Surely not naivety in such a to all-accounts clever and politically-savvy person, I can understand why Justin has got the wind up!

However as I’ve been trying to tell Justin, people do sometimes do or say strange things and they do suddenly ‘change their tune’ or get fixated on things, for reasons we can’t from the outside identify; it could be pressure in their personal lives or that they’re suffering from ill-health or any number of reasons.

But at any rate, we shouldn’t ever jump to the conclusion that anyone’s working for the other side which is very damning unless we have completely concrete EVIDENCE of that. OR, as a not-too-close second, that a number of other people of reasonably sound judgment have all come to the same conclusion, independently of each other.

At the same time, when people start behaving oddly or inconsistently with their previous behaviour, or actually lying! that should indeed be an alarm-bell. But our response in the first instance should be strictly humanitarian. As a community we do need to recognise that the strain of dealing with all this dark stuff is real (don’t I know) and we should look out for each other. If anyone is showing signs of strain someone geographically close should check the situation at first hand to see what the problem really is (at the risk of getting a dusty answer of course!)

At the end of the day there’s only one thing we can firmly say about who or what group was ultimately responsible for 9/11 and it’s this: it was ALL of them working together! the Zionists, the neo-Nazis, the Islamic fundamentalists, the Jesuits, the top Freemasons, the NWO-ists and the Satanists, the odd Alien, old Uncle Tom Cobbly and all! And there probably weren’t even that many of those in the composite ‘inner ring’ – someone’s estimated no more than 50 people planned and carried out 9/11. All the rest were patsies and bit-players and FOs (following orders) who played their part in the game but couldn’t see the whole of it.

Set against that lot are we THE PEOPLE of any nation or group, very much including Jews & the ordinary people of Israel who are not on any agenda except peace on the planet, care for the environment and respect for all other people.

It’s really that dead simple.

So DOWN WITH ALL –ISMS including Zionism and racism and let none of us resort to any of those stupid –ISM labels, certainly not used against each other. Any who do may have forgotten themselves momentarily, they may be under strain and may need our support.

Mick you’re a great campaigner for people & truth – stay with us please but drop the –isms!!

[Stefan]

Fair enough Mick, I was planning on staying out of this thread and I think I'll return to that policy now.

Again, best of luck for the future and don't be a stranger.

S

[Pikey]

[Sixy]

[Mick Meaney]

What a lot of waffle. I agreed to stay out of this thread and apart from this post I will keep to that but to say I'm working on a rather long article which details my experience of the movement - no holes barred, yes Steve you will be mentioned, in particular how you almost got the campaign into legal troubles through your accusations at a certain Lancaster newspaper (would have been a blessing in disguise if you ask me). There is of course 3 years of other insanity to report.

It will not be published here as I am done with this circle jerk of a movement. You'll know where to find it.

[TonyGosling]

I sensed there was 'trouble up north' from 2004 when I began to be involved - partly because I could see Justin, much as I respect him, bringing the alien agenda and reptiles etc. in - which could be used as a stick to beat the entire movement. He shouldn't be plugging his role as 911 Truth Co-Chair at an alien meeting if that is actually what's really happened?

Much like the 'No Planes at the WTC' people, calling in attacks on the entire movement with unproven conjecture.... This alien agenda was always going to be irreconcilable with the wider anti-war and 911 Truth movement for the majority on this planet.

It may of course be the case that 'the world is not yet ready for this information', but that seems a case for leaving off until it is. The world is certainly ready for 9/11 Truth.

I see it all as much more mundane (sorry alien lovers) human 'reptile brain' greed driving 9/11 7/7 and the 'War Of Terror'. Until proved, without a shadow of a doubt, reptile stuff will make 9/11 truthers look like loonies in the eyes of most media and public.

Good luck though with gathering and presenting the alien evidence if you can get it. Hope I'm not out of order wading in here.

[Stefan]

Pikey,
I really can't be bothered responding in detail.

Anyone who read my post knows I was posting about -

a) The fact that criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitism
b) That Mick had kept quiet for a long time about this

I deleted it for two reasons:

a) It was a rambling mess. I wrote it when I was a bit out of it and when I tried to come back to it to tidy it up I realised it wasn't really saying anything that hadn't been said by others on the thread.
b) Mick had quoted the relevant part and answered it - that he has tried to bring this up before and got nowhere and this is his final straw.

Whether I think Mick's done this in the right way or not, I can fuly understand the frustration at wanting to do something about 9/11, the war on terror, civil liberties and illegal wars, and finding yourself asociated with hoocaust denial, no planery, beam weapons and everything else under the sun.

[chrisc]

[kbo234]

[Pikey]

[TonyGosling]

It's not Jewish influence it's Zionist influence. An increasing number of Jewish people disagree with Israeli government expansionism.
We've just seen a news story today
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7451691.stm
where Jewish group B'Tselem
http://www.btselem.org/English/
are campaigning against Zionist policies in the Holy land.

[Pikey]

Lovely pm posted here from Mr Flamesong, Alf Megson concerning my post on this thread and my reply

[Sixy]

In reference to Pikey's above post, isn't against forum rules to post pm's?

[Justin]

Whether it is Alf, Mick or Sixy, I for one am getting very sick and tired of the lies, distortions and general unpleasantness coming from yourselves. I will give you a friendly warning Mick, if I read one lie about myself in your account on RINF of the 9/11 Truth Campaign, you will find yourself in very deep legal water.

[Mick Meaney]