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kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
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Location: Croydon, Surrey
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 Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Stefan wrote: | WTF!
I've just found this out.
Who organised this and what are they playing at?
Apparently Nafeez had no idea he was being put on a stage with NK - do you realise how much damage this will do to the relationship between Nafeez and the Truth Movement?
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Yup. This is puzzling.
Nafeez Ahmed holds his position as carefully as he does his research.
I hadn't realised that Nick was going to 'sharing a stage' with him.
Even though I support and respect Nick, this is (at best) an almost unbelievably thoughtless move. It is offering ammunition to all enemies of truth and a betrayal of Nafeez.
Blimey. It is possible to be that dumb, isn't it? |
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | | chrisc wrote: | Ignoring lots of other stuff I have big problems with...
| TonyGosling wrote: | I don't think Nick is the right person to put forward as an official campaign spokesperson  |
Which campaign is he being "put forward as an official campaign spokesperson" for -- any campaign having him as a "official spokesperson" must intent on media suicide...  |
No he isn't being put forward - I hope.
Please don't attack anyone who shares a platform with Nick, leave that to the spooks and the Zionists.
He is, in my view, the prime 7/7 author (as yet unpublished) and speaker bar none. He IS prepared to stick his neck out. This time he's had it chopped off by the nasties.
Give the guy a break it could be you next time with a revelation about your private life!
In a way this attack on Nick is a ringing endorsement of all his work on 7/7. Otherwise why would the dark forces bother.
Unless you think Mendick and the Evening Standard have no ulterior motives that is. |
Surely the Evening Standard has simply fired ammunition that was readily available?
It's not a matter of 'revelations' - they haven't 'revealed' anything that wasn't already public and they could have gone more to town if they'd wanted to based on some of the stupid things he's said.
What have any 'dark forces' done?
*Did they force Kollerstrom to write execrably bad and totally unoriginal Holocaust denial 'essays' he has subsequently continued to tout while simultaneously refusing to debate with anyone knowledgeable on the subject, despite his "I'll debate anyone, me" claims.
*Did they force him to use his real name and actually footnote one of them back to his essay to the official UK 911 website?
*Did they force him to associate with Michele 'far right conference speaker' Renouf?
*Did they force him to speak to the BBC about 7/7 at the exact time his Holocaust denial antics had become news?
*Did they force him to contact the families of victims?
*Did they arrange for these families to be upset about this?
*Did they force him to plan to take a platform alongside Nafeez Ahmed?
*Did they arrange for Ahmed to apparently not know about this?
*Did they arrange for Kollerstrom to apparently be billed as "J7 researchers"?
If you've got friends like this, what makes you think spooks or 'dark forces' would need to do anything? |
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paul wright
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Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: official campaign spokesperson? |
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| chrisc wrote: | | I don't know if Nick Kollerstrom is a genuine idiot or not |
Well that has been my impression, then you look at the series of "unfortunate" linkages as Dogsmilk lists them, cut them with your own experience, and you begin to wonder if that's all.
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karlos
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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How is anyone supposed to research 7/7 without speaking to the relatives?
I personally think Nick has shown a great deal of courage and endevour researching 7/7 as i am sure do most genuine truthseekers.
The smear campaign against him has resulted in him losing his job yet people are still after their pound of flesh.
Dogsmilk's usual drivel is on a par with George Bush's famous words
"you are either with us or you are with Al - Queda"
In my view, the mainstream zionist controlled media ALREADY classes 911 truthers, 7/7 researchers, global warming deniers and World War II historians in the same bracket.
Anyone who challenges the lies is considered a subversive and is labelled.
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Stefan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | How is anyone supposed to research 7/7 without speaking to the relatives?
I personally think Nick has shown a great deal of courage and endevour researching 7/7 as i am sure do most genuine truthseekers.
The smear campaign against him has resulted in him losing his job yet people are still after their pound of flesh.
Dogsmilk's usual drivel is on a par with George Bush's famous words
"you are either with us or you are with Al - Queda"
In my view, the mainstream zionist controlled media ALREADY classes 911 truthers, 7/7 researchers, global warming deniers and World War II historians in the same bracket.
Anyone who challenges the lies is considered a subversive and is labelled. |
Why would relatives of victims be a particuarly good source on information on an event? Are they likely to be especially objective? I'm not seeing the logic.
The obvious reason to leave them alone unless they come forward with information themselves is that the suject is an especially emotional one for them and its simply not considerate and to be blunt a little cruel not to let them move on with their lives. It's the decent and human thing to do.
What smear campaign against NK? That he's a holocaust denier? That's not a smear its a simple fact. Either you think that's OK or you don't. He's made every effort to be as public as he can with his beliefs, and shown no inclination to separate those beleifs from the TM.
I'm not just talking about his essays - I'm talking about him bringing up the subject in interviews which were specifically regarding his involvement in the truth movement. He knows what I'm talking about.
What is the greater smear?
Saying he's a holocaust denier when he is?
Or ascoiating the TM with holocaust denial, which he has?
Any sane person would agree the latter and conclude that WE have been smeared by HIM.
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Last edited by Stefan on Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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xmasdale
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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I am not happy with either the leaflet or with NK being offered a platfom at this meeting, if indeed he has. I don't imagine Nafeez will agree to share a platform with Nick and and for the London 9/11 truth group to offer him a platform would invite a further feeding frenzy from the press in an attempt to discredit both the J7 and the 9/11 Truth campaigns.
Unless I receive assurances that Nick will not be speaking, I shall not be attending the meeting.
The J7 group have previously made it clear they do not regard NK or Tony G as members of their group and they object to our using the term J7 for researchers in that field other than themselves.
In my opinion this leaflet should be withdrawn and the J7 group offered an apology.
Noel |
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Stefan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| xmasdale wrote: |
In my opinion this leaflet should be withdrawn and the J7 group offered an apology.
Noel |
Seconded.
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | Dogsmilk's usual drivel is on a par with George Bush's famous words
"you are either with us or you are with Al - Queda" |
In what way? Please explain.
| Quote: | | How is anyone supposed to research 7/7 without speaking to the relatives? |
Please explain what he has achieved by doing so and why it is important.
While you're at it, you may wish to explain exactly how all this stuff about Miriam Hyman is in any way significant other than causing further distress to her family. The media reported she was caught in the explosion on the number 30 after being evacuated from Kings Cross - how they know this I don't know - but I do wonder exactly how this macabre rumination about precisely where her body was serves to challenge the official account in any meaningful fashion. Am I missing something?
| Quote: | | The smear campaign against him has resulted in him losing his job |
What job is this, then?
| Quote: | In my view, the mainstream zionist controlled media ALREADY classes 911 truthers, 7/7 researchers, global warming deniers and World War II historians in the same bracket.
Anyone who challenges the lies is considered a subversive and is labelled. |
Yes, I am sure Ian Kershaw, Gotz Aly, Peter Longerich etc are all on a big long list compiled by 'Zionists'. |
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karlos
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Let me make it simple, if it turns out that Miriam Hyman was killed by Mossad ofcourse her family will be distressed by that. But dont you think that every murder victim deserves justice and for the culprits to be caught and punished?
What is more distressing for the victims families is the continuing doubt as to what happened that day and who was really responsible. They deserve a public inquiry, they deserve inquests and they deserve proper compensation for their loss.
The 52 victims from 23 countries who died on 7/7 were victims of a massive conspiracy and there is virtually no evidence against the alleged 4 asians. Nobody saw the 4 that day, we have not seen any cctv of that day nor was any made available during the recent Kingston trial.
All we have is 3 botched photoshopped images and cctv from the 26th June 2005 and alot of hearsay.
No trial would find the four guilty on that basis and again there has been no cornoers inquests for any of the four either.
Post Mortums would reveal what explosive was used whether it was water/chapathi flour/black peppper or whether it was the same batch of eastern european high grade explosive that was used in the Israeli cafe bombing that took place around the same time.
I sincerely believe the people behind 7/7 need to be punished and it wont happen while we bury our heads in the sand waiting.
The victim's families are being used by the Labour government to promote 42 day detention. They were on the radio today. I still believe that the only way for them to gain closure is for a proper full public inquiry and inquests.
ps: Miriam Hyman worked in Docklands and so her family cannot understand why she came to be on THAT bus. They have said this.
Every murder involves some sort of walkthrough reconstruction of the victims movements prior to death.
There is a longstanding theory that bodies were allocated to the bus bomb site AFTERWARDS.
How often do murder victims bodies end up being moved?
Very often.
So why would this case be different
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | There is a longstanding theory that bodies were allocated to the bus bomb site AFTERWARDS. |
I see...
To what end? Is there any rational reason why this should be the case?
Did anyone actually see these corpses being carted around London and then dumped at the site?
And this challenges the official account of four suicide bombers how exactly? What's the alternative narrative being presented here? Like I said, I don't know how the media know she'd been evacuated from Kings Cross, but I find myself rather unsurprised people ended up in unusual places when it all kicked off - at least I just don't see what the big deal is here - or are we now to believe bodies were being moved to different places for no apparent reason and this somehow indicates the four were innocent?
| Quote: | How often do murder victims bodies end up being moved?
Very often.
So why would this case be different |
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On a side note, I wish Kollerstrom would stop lying -
| Quote: | I’m just looking critically, as a science historian, at the evidence for certain chambers having been used in conjunction with Zyklon-B insecticide in the war.
It is true that I had an opportunity to present this matter on Iranian TV, but I’d be happy to argue it anywhere else. |
http://www.thejc.com/home.aspx?ParentId=m12s30&SecId=30&AId=60563&ATyp eId=1
Really?
I already repeatedly challenged you to go to RODOH and you have failed to do so, after you failed to address some incredibly basic points of my own you pathetic fraud.
The guy is a joke. |
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ian neal
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Joined: 26 Jul 2005
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not involved in organising or publicising this event but I know that only Nafeez will be speaking. Nick won't be. I will make sure belinda who I believe designed the leaflet is made aware of this thread and hope the leaflet is redesigned as soon as possible |
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Prole
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | | I'm not involved in organising or publicising this event but I know that only Nafeez will be speaking. Nick won't be. I will make sure belinda who I believe designed the leaflet is made aware of this thread and hope the leaflet is redesigned as soon as possible |
Perhaps Belinda could post an explanation on why 'J7 researchers' and our website were included on this leaflet.
On behalf of J7, the apology from Stefan and xmasdale is appreciated.
| karlos wrote: | .. we have not seen any cctv of that day nor was any made available during the recent Kingston trial.
All we have is 3 botched photoshopped images and cctv from the 26th June 2005 and alot of hearsay. |
On the contrary, a lot of cctv was released during the trial, but nothing which conclusively proves that the 4 accused actually boarded the trains or the bus.
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xmasdale
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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I have now been reassured that NK will not be speaking at this event.
Prole, I'm not sure I did really apologise because I was not involved in organising either the event or the flier; I urged an apology. I have also urged that a new flier be produced. |
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paul wright
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| xmasdale wrote: | I have now been reassured that NK will not be speaking at this event.
Prole, I'm not sure I did really apologise because I was not involved in organising either the event or the flier; I urged an apology. I have also urged that a new flier be produced. |
What is all this nonsense? Why should the J7 crowd be apologised to anyway? What ownership do they have of anything? This is typical of the blameworthy society where people should own up to anything without fear, and then will be blamed and penalised for doing so, and have to at least apologise if not worse
Noel has nothing to apologise for. Nor does anybody else, other than Nick K, and whoever disguised his identity as "J7 researchers", if that is indeed the case, and for which I've seen no evidential proof, even nothing which shows Nick K was to share the platform. Certainly I would have invited J7 types to appear, as I did when proposing the Beeston event which was banned from Beeston, and to which Nick K was invited in those more innocent of days
This is getting into nonsensical barriered and repetitive areas which border on the obsessional
Time to get a life, I shouldn't wonder
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alwun
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Location: london
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: Hello...ohh. |
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If in the world of commerce, a leaflet is produced displaying a logo belonging to a quite different business, which nevertheless implies permission from that other business, then this will be designated as 'passing off' as a n other.
I find it curious that J7 should be displayed without any consultation with the long-standing serious group which we know as J7.
However although it is unlikely that this mistake will see the inside of a courtroom, it might have made the press, as inferred above. Curious. And quite deserving of an explanation, if not an apology.
cheers Al.. |
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karlos
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Prole wrote: |
| karlos wrote: | .. we have not seen any cctv of that day nor was any made available during the recent Kingston trial.
All we have is 3 botched photoshopped images and cctv from the 26th June 2005 and alot of hearsay. |
On the contrary, a lot of cctv was released during the trial, but nothing which conclusively proves that the 4 accused actually boarded the trains or the bus. |
There was no cctv that showed them in London on that day at the correct times.
Meaning all the cctv that was shown was a distraction.
Certainly not evidence.
Like asking to see Rocky VII and being shown Rocky III
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karlos
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | | Quote: | | There is a longstanding theory that bodies were allocated to the bus bomb site AFTERWARDS. |
I see...
To what end? Is there any rational reason why this should be the case?
Did anyone actually see these corpses being carted around London and then dumped at the site?
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All the corpses were sent to one central temporary morgue.
It is a theory that some were moved and assigned to the bus.
The bus bomb is the easiest one to debunk.
A bus driver who came to the UK when he was 16 and working in the rag trade. Even though when he was 16 Britain and Greece had no relationship.
A bus driver who left the accident scene and appeared later 7 miles away at a hospital claiming that he walked there.
A bus driver who was not on his normal route in fact was only given the bus that day.
The bus being practically the only one diverted, which was stopped at the bomb site while the driver asked for directions. Most of the passengers got off including ghost Richard Jones.
Why would Miriam Hyman get on a bus that was nowhere near where she was and was not going her way indeed was driving on a diverted route.
They claim the bomber got on the bus again in theory taking him back to the point where he started.
Nothing to do with the bus makes sense.
The photos are abviously doctored and show a montage of people with different aspects and only the bus driver is identifiable.
The police have a cordon and it is certainly the case that an explosion was expected.
The bus was diverted towards Russel Square scene of a bomb and obvious blocked roads, WHY?
The cctv cameras on the bus were not working despite having been serviced a few days before.
Where are the cctv images from the traffic cameras?
How can a bomb blast the roof off the bus yet most of the people on the upper deck are uninjured?
http://www.declarepeace.org.uk/captain/murder_inc/site/pics/3bus.jpg
Look at this picture closely. It is a fake.
http://www.officialconfusion.com/77/images/bus/bus_large.jpg
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paul wright
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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That's an awfully big picture and I'm not sure it's fake but if the roof was blown off and the blast extended through to blowing out the destination board at the front, then what are those people doing with their legs apparently intact
Always a good question
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | All the corpses were sent to one central temporary morgue.
It is a theory that some were moved and assigned to the bus.
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Whose theory? Based on what exactly?
So are you suggesting that corpses were all sent to one morgue and then some subsequently dispatched and arranged - with no-one noticing - next to the bus?
What was the timescale for this gathering of bodies and shipping them around London?
Who was running this post mortem special delivery operation?
What would be the reason for this?
Is there any evidence for any of this?
| Quote: | | Why would Miriam Hyman get on a bus that was nowhere near where she was and was not going her way indeed was driving on a diverted route. |
Has it occurred to you that she may have been making decisions in the confusion that - not being a mind reader - you don't actually know about? Has it occurred to you she may have been making ad hoc, on-the-hoof decisions that may have involved planning a few bus changes to try and reach where she wanted to go at that time, a destination you do not and will never know? Do you entertain the possibility she may perchance have got on the wrong bus in what was a rather confusing situation?
Do you seriously regard the fact you don't know what this unfortunate woman was doing at this time as one of the pressing questions regarding 7/7? Do you honestly think any enquiry should be considering the pivotal question of why Miriam Hyman was on a bus you thought she shouldn't catch? Is it genuinely of such importance her family should be pressed on the matter? Are you suggesting that the fact someone apparently got on a bus you don't think they should have been on is some kind of evidence for some malign yet so far inscrutable game of musical corpses? Is this where you think 7/7 research should be going?
I have ignored the other stuff you're going on about as it's not relevant to the question at hand - if you think it is, please enlighten me.
Though I'd like to know why the Underground cctv being run by an Israeli company is of monumental significance (though I assume the tapes would simply be passed to the authorities) yet the failing bus cctv being maintained by a Lancashire company isn't. |
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TonyGosling
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: Re: official campaign spokesperson? |
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| Nick Kollerstrom wrote: |
On April 17th, 2008 Nick K. (not verified) says:
Hi, I note you seem to object to my having defended the proposition that: no German ever put a Jew into a gas chamber. You call that Holocaust Denial, well I’m proud to be associated with it. I’m happy to defend, it any time, any place. It happens to be true!
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/2014#comments
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Nick is making some extremely contentious claims here Chris. And potentially offensive to anyone who believes their relatives were gassed.
http://news.google.com/news?ncl=1221092935
Ultimately it comes down to whether or not one can contend that there were no 'extermination camps' and yet still believe in 'The Holocaust'.
This sort of thing from Blairwatch doesn't help:
| Quote: |
Admin Comment: What is shows is that these 'researchers' can't do real research to save their lives. If someone's 'research' leads them to believe that Auschwitz was no more than a holiday camp, it must surely leave us to wonder if their other research has any validity whatsoever. |
Of course Nick is not saying this and never has.
http://typo3.ort.org/index.php?id=429
Life in the Nazi camps was barbaric.
In his 1954 book "The Scourge of the Swastika" Lord Russell of Liverpool recalls the testimony of one 'Manusevitch' who testified on Thursday 14th February 1946 on the 59th day of the Nurenberg trial.
He said he worked for a special squad of prisoners detailed to burn the corpses of murdered prisoners.
Testifying about Yanov Extermination Camp he said that Commandant Hauptsurmfuhrer Gebauer used to strangle women and children with his own hands. He froze men to death in barrels. Murder became so monotonous the staff were officially encouraged to devise new methods.
| Quote: |
The commandant of the Yanov camp, 'Obersturmfuehrer' Willhaus, systematically shot with an automatic rifle from the balcony of his office the prisoners employed in the workshops, partly for sheer love of 'sport' and partly to amuse his wife and daughters. He would then hand his rifle to his wife and she too had a shot at the prisoners. Sometimes to please his nine-year- old daughter, he had children between the ages of two and four years tossed in the air and then took pot shots at them, while his daughter applauded and shrieked, 'Papa, do it again; do it again, Papa!' And he did it again.
[Page 34]
The internees of this camp were exterminated for no reason at all, often as a result of a bet. A woman witness, Kirschner, informed the Investigating Commission that a Gestapo Commissar, Wepke, bet the other camp executioners that he could cut a boy in half with one stroke of the axe. They did not believe him. So he caught a 10- year-old boy on the road, made him kneel down, told him to hide his face in the folded palms of his hands, made one test stroke, placed the child's head in a more convenient position and with one single stroke cut the boy in half. The Hitlerites heartily congratulated Wepke, shaking him warmly by the hand.
In 1943, for Hitler's birthday - his 54th - the commandant of the Yanov camp, Obersturmfuehrer Willhaus, picked out fifty-four prisoners of war and shot them himself.
A special hospital for prisoners was organised in the camp. The German hangmen Brambauer and Birman checked up the patients on the 1st and 15th day of each month; and, if they discovered that among the patients there were some who had been in the hospital for over 14 days, they shot them on the spot. Six or seven people were killed during each investigation.
The Germans executed their tortures, ill- treatments and shooting to the accompaniment of music. For this purpose they formed a special orchestra selected from among the prisoners. They forced Professor Stricks and the famous conductor Mund to conduct this orchestra. They requested the composers to write a special tune, to be called the 'Tango of Death'. Shortly before dissolving the camp the Germans shot every member of the orchestra."
Later on I will present to the Tribunal, as a photo- document, photographs of this "orchestra of death".
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-07/tgmwc-07-59-12.shtml
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I'm quite certain that had the SS and their friends got hold of a chemical which would have killed large numbers of inmates they would have used it.
http://typo3.ort.org/index.php?id=429
This particular article on Buchenwald doesn't mention gas chambers
| Quote: | Buchenwald, one of the largest and oldest Nazi camps, held tens of thousands of prisoners from dozens of nations by the time it was liberated by the Americans on 11 April 1945. Originally built as a place to house German political prisoners, it eventually expanded to be a vast labour camp complex, with many satellite camps and extension units. The first group of prisoners was brought there in July 1937, and by the war's end, over 50,000 people had died in Buchenwald and its sub-camps, the victims of starvation, overwork, SS executions and medical experiments. Buchenwald was also one of the first camps to hold thousands arrested solely for being Jewish: many of the Jewish men rounded up during the 1938 Kristallnacht pogrom were sent here.
http://typo3.ort.org/index.php?id=buchenwald0
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This mentions two camps where gas chambers were in operation
Seems to me a most unwise move to be making claims that the 'odourless' version of Zyklon B was never used to kill any prisoners. How can anyone be sure of that and why would anyone want to be?
BTW in a bizarre twist back in 2003
Siemens retreats over Nazi name
........A year ago, Bosch Siemens Hausgeraete (BSH), the firm's consumer products joint venture, filed two applications with the US Patent & Trademark Office for the Zyklon name across a range of home products, including gas ovens..........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2233890.stm
These are the peple who make a fortune out of the British taxpayer by installing traffic lights eerywhere and who now own and manage all the BBCs transmitters.
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www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/ |
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karlos
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Location: london
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: |
Though I'd like to know why the Underground cctv being run by an Israeli company is of monumental significance (though I assume the tapes would simply be passed to the authorities) yet the failing bus cctv being maintained by a Lancashire company isn't. |
The Israeli company Verint was awarded the contract in 2004 by cuddly Ken Livingsone.
Verint was founded and run by former Mossad and Shin Beth officers.
Verint was found guilty of fraud in the US by a New York court and 3 directors were imprisoned.
Founder Jaco 'Kobi' Alexander is still on the run in Namibia.
I would say it is a very significant part of the plot.
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karlos
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: |
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As the subject of Zyclon-B has been brought up again:
Zyklon B was invented by Fritz Haber who happened to be Jewish.
Fritz Haber received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1918 for his development for synthesizing ammonia, important for fertilizers and explosives. He is also credited as the "father of chemical warfare" for his work developing and deploying chlorine and other poison gases during World War I. He was awarded a medal and the rank of Captain by the Kaiser for his personal involvement in the deployment of poison gases against Russian and British troops during World War I.
This man Theo Goldschmidt who also happens to be Jewish owned the company which manufactured the Zyclon-B.
I guess these facts wont make me popular.
But the truth always is more important than the propaganda.
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Dogsmilk
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | | I would say it is a very significant part of the plot. |
In what way?
| Quote: | | I guess these facts wont make me popular. |
I'd say they further confirm your knack for total irrelevance. I mean - could you actually spell out the purpose of your Zyklon B post? Thanks.
I mean -
| Quote: | | To raise capital, Degussa split its controlling interest of DEGESCH with IG Farben in 1930: both companies held a 42.5% share in DEGESCH, with the remaining 15% held by the Th. Goldschmidt AG of Essen. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_b
Yet you choose to try to emphasise your belief a Jew controlled production of a pesticide that the Nazis happened to find another use for.
Why?
| TonyGosling wrote: | | Of course Nick is not saying this and never has. |
| Quote: | Let us hope the schoolchildren visitors are properly taught about the elegant swimming-pool at Auschwitz, built by the inmates, who would sunbathe there on Saturday and Sunday afternoons while watching the water-polo matches; and shown the paintings from its art class, which still exist; and told about the camp library which had some forty-five thousand volumes for inmates to choose from, plus a range of periodicals; and the six camp orchestras at Auschwitz/Birkenau, its the theatrical performances, including a children’s opera, the weekly camp cinema, and even the special brothel established there. Let’s hope they are shown postcards written from Auschwitz, some of which still exist, where the postman would collect the mail twice-weekly.”
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From "School trips to Auschwitz" by Nick Kollerstrom that has now been removed and consigned to the internet memory hole. Sounds like he's pushing the 'holiday camp' concept to me. Otherwise, what else is he saying here?
You may recall he failed to answer my specific question on that other thread concerning exactly in what way the swimming pool was significant. |
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karlos
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Why when you are discussing anything do you blatantly refuse to consider any fact that proves zionist complicity in crimes.
Unfortunately it is this blinkered approach which undoes most of your arguments.
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | Why when you are discussing anything do you blatantly refuse to consider any fact that proves zionist complicity in crimes.
Unfortunately it is this blinkered approach which undoes most of your arguments. |
I have merely asked you some simple and obvious questions you appear to be struggling to answer.
Why is it whenever we are discussing anything you make bold statements you subsequently cannot substantiate? |
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Danny
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | | I have merely asked you some simple and obvious questions you appear to be struggling to answer. |
You are like the hypocrite scribes that Jesus came up against, feigning they wanted to know something when in reality they were laying traps. Best way to answer your questions is with a question. As there is no "merely" about your act. |
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ian neal
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Joined: 26 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: |
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The religious and ethnic background of the people involved in the development and manufacture of Zyklon B is completely irrelevant to Nick's argument, proves precisely nothing, but could lead people to conclude that you have something against Jews, Karlos. Do you?
If I have followed what Nick is saying, he argues that there were no crimes involving Zyklon B and that the camps were supposedly work camps and not death camps. He has claimed he will defend his views anywhere but has failed to take up dogsmilk's offer to debate on RODOH. IMO Nick should realise that his views do cause offense and undermine his credibility as a researcher and he would be wise to retract them.
Cui bono from associating 7/7 and 9/11 scepticism with such views |
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karlos
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | Yet you choose to try to emphasise your belief a Jew controlled production of a pesticide that the Nazis happened to find another use for.
Why? |
My Belief?
These are historic facts.
You are choosing to ignore the fact that Fritz Haber was the inventor of German chemical weapons during the first world war. He grubby hands are covered in thousands of deaths. He directly oversaw deployment of these weapons against British and Russian troops.
This is not my belief, this is a historic fact.
When are you going to able to be brave enough to call a spade a spade?
Fritz Haber is a truly evil character.
However, he died in 1934 so did not participate in World War II
Theo Goldschmidt, however, did participate as the manufacturer of zyklon-B amongst other things. His company made the stuff.
As well as fellow zionist controlled Dupont.
The fact that Jews created/invented/manufactured chemical weapons for the Germans is a very significant point.
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Danny wrote: | | Dogsmilk wrote: | | I have merely asked you some simple and obvious questions you appear to be struggling to answer. |
You are like the hypocrite scribes that Jesus came up against, feigning they wanted to know something when in reality they were laying traps. Best way to answer your questions is with a question. As there is no "merely" about your act. |
Really?
I suppose it would be preferable to you if I simply nodded enthusiastically at everything Karlos says, no matter how characteristically random and inconsequential...? |
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karlos
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | The religious and ethnic background of the people involved in the development and manufacture of Zyklon B is completely irrelevant to Nick's argument, proves precisely nothing, but could lead people to conclude that you have something against Jews, Karlos. Do you?
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Do you think the fact that German chemical weapons were created/invented/manufactured/deployed by Jews somehow excuse these crimes?
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