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Danny
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 Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | | Danny wrote: | | ian neal wrote: | | The religious and ethnic background of the people involved in the development and manufacture of Zyklon B is completely irrelevant to Nick's argument, proves precisely nothing, but could lead people to conclude that you have something against Jews, Karlos. Do you? |
It could also lead people to conclude Karlos is not afraid of Jews, and has no problem with stating a fact. And your words, Ian, could lead people to conclude you are afraid of them, and have problems with certain facts being stated. Do you? |
Please explain why I or anyone else should be fearful of jews.
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Please explain why Karlos or anyone else should be afraid of speaking their mind, and why you go around insinuating anti-semitism where there is none. |
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Danny
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | | Dogsmilk wrote: | | karlos wrote: | All the corpses were sent to one central temporary morgue.
It is a theory that some were moved and assigned to the bus.
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Whose theory? Based on what exactly?
So are you suggesting that corpses were all sent to one morgue and then some subsequently dispatched and arranged - with no-one noticing - next to the bus?
What was the timescale for this gathering of bodies and shipping them around London?
Who was running this post mortem special delivery operation?
What would be the reason for this?
Is there any evidence for any of this?
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Given that it was "Muad Dib" who advised Nick to contact the family concerned according to Nick, perhaps Danny, a follower and supporter of Muad Dib, can shed some light and confirm the origins of this theory and any evidence that supports it.
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=120102#120102 |
Why did Muad'Dib ask Nick to see if he could contact this person in the first place? Answer - because he himself had originally said he did not think his daughter could have been on the bus.
It's not the only thing concerning the explosion on the bus which is strange. And a list of these have been talked about in films and in this forum.
The questions being asked are disingenuous, as you know we do not have access to the information, which is why we are seeking to investigate this further. In essence, what Dogsmilk and yourself are saying is that without (more) evidence we should not approach someone who could provide (more) evidence... which is either totally illogical, or a logical thing for someone to say if their motives are to prevent this being investigated.
Let's ban any avenues of investigation altogether shall we? And simply wait until evidence falls on our heads? And in the meantime, let's keep "herding the flockk"*, making sure they do not go where the Establishment doesn't want them to go.
* Why is "flockk", but spelt correctly, censored in this forum, please? |
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karlos
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: |
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hello JD
im sorry but you are totally wrong
you cannot trademark a date or any words that represent a date
for example 14th February would be a good date to trademark
so the seventh of July or the American reversed version are not protectable
conversely the phrase J7 is available, because it is unconnected to a date
and is significantly unique
Unfortunately julyseventh have not protected J7 indeed it already belongs to several others
this is the J7 fighter plane made in China for example
This is the world wide registered logo of a Russian company
This is the trading name of a UK Web development company
http://www.jseven.co.uk/
I hope you see my point. I am not trying to be anal but you made a statement which was 100% wrong and i could not let it go unchallenged
Anyone of these could demand that J7 stop using their registered names.
they could easily argue their names are being hurt, they could also demand damages. This may not make you happy but it is the law.
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Danny
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: | | karlos wrote: | | What does MuadDib's religious views have to do with 7/7? |
MD's view that he is the messiah and his promotion of jewish conspiracy theories undermine his credibility as a 7/7 researcher, not that he has much in the first place IMO. |
His "religious views" (Muad'Dib might say "the truth I'm well acquainted with") are right on the money, and He is the one and only real threat to the evil reign of the NWO (to call them something) people, because of who He is, and because He will bring them down, practically overnight, as soon as He is recognized as King by the British people.
The only undermining of credibility that takes place is in the eyes of those who are deceived by the Liar, and not well enough acquainted with long-standing prophecy (fulfilled in exact and minute detail with only a little remainder to go). Nor with Muad'Dib's true character, because they suffer from inverted vision.
People have been programmed to knee-jerk react to anyone claiming to be the Messiah, when the very reason for all the false ones that preceeded Him is because of the hide a tree in a forest principle which the Enemy deploys. If they were a little bit wise, they would understand this, and take His claim seriously enough to study the matter seriously. What do people expect to get out of studying a matter UNseriously, who treat it as contemptuous from the beginning?
Make no mistake, in the eyes of others, it is those more concerned with the good opinion of men than with the good opinion of The Almighty, who are the ones with little or no credibility.
In a world of lies, truth is stranger than fiction. |
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Danny
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Prole wrote: | | Karlos, words fail me when I read your rabid posts. |
Hello Prole,
When I read how you dramatically re-painted a simple request from Muad'Dib to Nick Kollerstrom; which Nick was free to follow through on or not; into: "Nick Kollerstrom does Muad'Dib's bidding"... the word rabid came to mind.
Goebbels would be proud of you.
Peace,
Danny. |
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Danny
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | Is this who Kollerstrom is knocking about with?
Astonishing. |
I suppose you think that Kollerstrom would be better respected if you magnanimously allowed him to "knock about" with you? Oh dear. |
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Danny
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | Let me make myself clear. I do agree that there was a Holocaust.
But it is a fact that there has been a great deal of guilding the lily.
Lies serve no justice to the victims. Pretending that zionists were not involved is a disgraceful lie not born out by the historic facts. Without Paul Warburg's money, Rockefellers oil, Goldschmidt's chemicals, etc it could not have happened.
Pretending that Mossad was not involved in 7/7 serves no justice to Miriam Hyman or any othe the other victims. |
Hi Karlos,
Like seeing my own thoughts on the screen, typed by your hand.
Peace,
Danny. |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Karlos wrote: | | Let me make myself clear. I do agree that there was a Holocaust. |
I hope you don't expect that because you believe there was a Holocaust that the "usual suspects" will refrain from calling you a "Holocaust Denier". That's not the way their agenda works!
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Karlos wrote: | Well the semetic race are actually Arabs from palestine/jordan.
Most Jews are actually white european from Ashkenazi background and so are not ethnic semites.
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Though when the word was popularised by Wilhelm Marr, he clearly had Jews in mind.
Regardless, in common parlance everyone - including you - knows what the word means and you are just being childish.
| Quote: | These Jews caused the deaths of million of Jews yet you dont regard them as anti Semetic. What in your boks does a person have to do to be anti semetic in that case?
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Well if you can demonstrate that any of these people willfully and knowingly persecuted people simply on the basis they were Jewish I would be interested to hear about it.
The absolute corker is that you appear to think someone was anti-semitic on the basis they manufactured a pesticide which was subsequently used to kill people. This is about as insane as saying the manufacturers of Kool Aid are advocates of mass suicide because of what happened at Jonestown.
Are you for real or are you simply having a laugh?
| Quote: | | you cleverly left out the link, why? didnt want people to read it?[ |
Yes, I was trying to avoid people reading a link clearly available on the exact same thread because...well...er...some reason or other I'm sure makes sense to you.
| Danny wrote: | Why did Muad'Dib ask Nick to see if he could contact this person in the first place? Answer - because he himself had originally said he did not think his daughter could have been on the bus.
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Yet you have not explained why this is of significance in relation to the events of that day. All there seems to be is some wild theory about bodies being shunted around for some unknown reason, something you have failed to explain despite being invited to do so.
| Quote: | Let's ban any avenues of investigation altogether shall we? And simply wait until evidence falls on our heads? And in the meantime, let's keep "herding the flockk"*, making sure they do not go where the Establishment doesn't want them to go.
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But what is the utility of this particular avenue of investigation? All that has apparently been achieved is upsetting the families and generating negative publicity that tars the J7 people.
Well done.
| Quote: | | Why is "flockk", but spelt correctly, censored in this forum, please? |
LOL. Yeah, I think words beginning with 'f' are just being banned from this forum one by one.
| Quote: | His "religious views" (Muad'Dib might say "the truth I'm well acquainted with") are right on the money, and He is the one and only real threat to the evil reign of the NWO (to call them something) people, because of who He is, and because He will bring them down, practically overnight, as soon as He is recognized as King by the British people.
The only undermining of credibility that takes place is in the eyes of those who are deceived by the Liar, and not well enough acquainted with long-standing prophecy (fulfilled in exact and minute detail with only a little remainder to go). Nor with Muad'Dib's true character, because they suffer from inverted vision.
People have been programmed to knee-jerk react to anyone claiming to be the Messiah, when the very reason for all the false ones that preceeded Him is because of the hide a tree in a forest principle which the Enemy deploys. If they were a little bit wise, they would understand this, and take His claim seriously enough to study the matter seriously. What do people expect to get out of studying a matter UNseriously, who treat it as contemptuous from the beginning?
Make no mistake, in the eyes of others, it is those more concerned with the good opinion of men than with the good opinion of The Almighty, who are the ones with little or no credibility.
In a world of lies, truth is stranger than fiction. |
I sincerely hope for your sake you do not genuinely believe this.
I don't personally believe Christ was the Messiah, but at least He is alleged to have performed deeds befitting the moniker - allegedly sorting out a couple of people's motoring related offences and making a deeply flawed documentary about 7/7 simply don't cut it for me I'm afraid.
And I'd wonder why any Messiah feels the need to ask for cash so he can send you some 'documents'. Jesus threw the money lenders out of the temple - He didn't ask for cash to be sent to him by mail.
| Quote: | | I suppose you think that Kollerstrom would be better respected if you magnanimously allowed him to "knock about" with you? Oh dear. |
I don't think I'd want him knocking about with me - I'm not that desperate for company.
I simply find it funny he's associating with such stuff, though strangely befitting the tragic buffoon.
Can you possibly confirm if he has chosen to purchase Dib's 'bulletproof defence'? |
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jd
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | hello JD
im sorry but you are totally wrong
you cannot trademark a date or any words that represent a date
for example 14th February would be a good date to trademark
so the seventh of July or the American reversed version are not protectable
conversely the phrase J7 is available, because it is unconnected to a date
and is significantly unique
Unfortunately julyseventh have not protected J7 indeed it already belongs to several others
a picture
this is the J7 fighter plane made in China for example
a picture
This is the world wide registered logo of a Russian company
a picture
This is the trading name of a UK Web development company
http://www.jseven.co.uk/
I hope you see my point. I am not trying to be anal but you made a statement which was 100% wrong and i could not let it go unchallenged
Anyone of these could demand that J7 stop using their registered names.
they could easily argue their names are being hurt, they could also demand damages. This may not make you happy but it is the law. |
Sweeping statements composed of vagaries in regard to laws you by all appearances have little grasp of, in combination with your wonderful ability to hold diametrically opposed viewpoints in some form of mental accord, coupled with proclivities toward rotation through a full 360 degrees (spin) within single sentences do not unfortunately constitute some form of "challenge", legal, moral, or otherwise. As such, your "point" - blunt and indistinct as it is - is not one I can with honesty concede that I 'see'.
No-one, nor myself in the previous post you have chosen to misunderstand, has tried to make any sort of claim toward "a date", for anyone to make such a claim is to highlight in themselves a fundamental failure of understanding. The descriptor described herein and above by myself is specific as it relates to the characters "J7" (one letter and a single number) - itself a name system that corresponds to a date* and the occurrences on that(/those) date(/s) as well as the group referred to in shorthand as J7 (The July Seventh Truth Campaign). *(as well as its related forms e.g. J21)
As explained perfectly clearly above/previously by myself, "J7" does not readily relate to an ordinary date, this is because there is more than one month whose name is prefixed with a 'J'. To imply otherwise is a false line of reasoning.
It is precisely due to the fact that neither J7 - The July Seventh Truth Campaign, nor any of these other 'J7's are engaged in impersonating the others that there is no litigation going on, or in the case of the Jian-7 / J-7/F-7 copy of the MiG-21, bombing.
The line of logic you have employed, wobbly and obtuse though it may be, clearly and neatly marks out and reinforces the very points you have misunderstood.
The reason why none of the organisations you cite above are suing one another is that their products do not fit into the same categories.
According to your own line of reasoning, you are in fact in support of the notion that J7 (The July Seventh Truth Campaign) and other J7s (products/services/organisations unrelated to research of a geopolitical and political nature) are not interchangeable, but are instead disparate and independent of one another. |
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Prole
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Location: London UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Danny wrote: | | Prole wrote: | | Karlos, words fail me when I read your rabid posts. |
Hello Prole,
When I read how you dramatically re-painted a simple request from Muad'Dib to Nick Kollerstrom; which Nick was free to follow through on or not; into: "Nick Kollerstrom does Muad'Dib's bidding"... the word rabid came to mind.
Goebbels would be proud of you.
Peace,
Danny. |
If MD wanted to ask questions of relatives or survivors, why didn't he do this himself? Or is he so used to disciples like yourself doing his bidding?
Useful idiots is a phrase that comes to mind.
_________________
'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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Danny
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Prole wrote: | | If MD wanted to ask questions of relatives or survivors, why didn't he do this himself? |
He does the will of His Father. Not yours.
| Prole wrote: | | Or is he so used to disciples like yourself doing his bidding? |
For the record, I'm not His disciple. I have a long way to go.
| Prole wrote: | | Useful idiots is a phrase that comes to mind. |
I'd rather be His idiot (useful is debatable) than the Enemy's idiot. |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Danny wrote: | | ian neal wrote: | | Danny wrote: | | ian neal wrote: | | The religious and ethnic background of the people involved in the development and manufacture of Zyklon B is completely irrelevant to Nick's argument, proves precisely nothing, but could lead people to conclude that you have something against Jews, Karlos. Do you? |
It could also lead people to conclude Karlos is not afraid of Jews, and has no problem with stating a fact. And your words, Ian, could lead people to conclude you are afraid of them, and have problems with certain facts being stated. Do you? |
Please explain why I or anyone else should be fearful of jews.
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Please explain why Karlos or anyone else should be afraid of speaking their mind, and why you go around insinuating anti-semitism where there is none. |
To answer your original question is no. The answer to your second questions is (1) I've never said Karlos or anyone else should be fearful of speaking their mind within the rules of the forum and (2) I try not to insinuate that someone is anti-semitic if I believe they are. Instead I come straight and call it as I see it.
Now please answer mine instead of wriggling around answering questions with questions.
Why should I or anyone esle be fearful of jews? |
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ian neal
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Karlos wrote: | | Let me make myself clear. I do agree that there was a Holocaust. |
I hope you don't expect that because you believe there was a Holocaust that the "usual suspects" will refrain from calling you a "Holocaust Denier". That's not the way their agenda works! |
Who are the usual suspects who have called Karlos a holocaust denier, where have they claimed this and what is their agenda? |
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ian neal
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Danny wrote: | | ian neal wrote: | | karlos wrote: | | What does MuadDib's religious views have to do with 7/7? |
MD's view that he is the messiah and his promotion of jewish conspiracy theories undermine his credibility as a 7/7 researcher, not that he has much in the first place IMO. |
His "religious views" (Muad'Dib might say "the truth I'm well acquainted with") are right on the money, and He is the one and only real threat to the evil reign of the NWO (to call them something) people, because of who He is, and because He will bring them down, practically overnight, as soon as He is recognized as King by the British people.
The only undermining of credibility that takes place is in the eyes of those who are deceived by the Liar, and not well enough acquainted with long-standing prophecy (fulfilled in exact and minute detail with only a little remainder to go). Nor with Muad'Dib's true character, because they suffer from inverted vision.
People have been programmed to knee-jerk react to anyone claiming to be the Messiah, when the very reason for all the false ones that preceeded Him is because of the hide a tree in a forest principle which the Enemy deploys. If they were a little bit wise, they would understand this, and take His claim seriously enough to study the matter seriously. What do people expect to get out of studying a matter UNseriously, who treat it as contemptuous from the beginning?
Make no mistake, in the eyes of others, it is those more concerned with the good opinion of men than with the good opinion of The Almighty, who are the ones with little or no credibility.
In a world of lies, truth is stranger than fiction. |
You see unlike you all I have to base MD credibility on is his film and his website, neither of which impress me very much. Perhaps if MD was more open as to his true identity and credientials, perhaps even making himself open to public questioning and scrutiny we would all be better placed to assess his claims and his credibility.
Unfortunately for you someone using a pseudonym and proclaiming themselves to be the messiah via the web is not going to convince many British people to proclaim MD King IMO. |
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TonyGosling
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Prole
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Gosling wrote: | | I just wish J7 had expressed their concern in private rather than in public. It didn't make any sense to me. |
Why should our concerns over a public leaflet be expressed in private?
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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jd
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | Karlos,
You are deliberately missing the point by a thousand miles.
It's not clever.
Nobody would think a Jet fighter would turn up at the meeting.
I just wish J7 had expressed their concern in private rather than in public. It didn't make any sense to me.
| karlos wrote: | hello JD
im sorry but you are totally wrong
you cannot trademark a date or any words that represent a date
for example 14th February would be a good date to trademark
so the seventh of July or the American reversed version are not protectable
conversely the phrase J7 is available, because it is unconnected to a date
and is significantly unique
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Not only missing the point but also bristling with conflatory inaccuracies, and downright wrong - as demonstrated previously and then repeated and clarified for exhibitors of hebetudinousness of cognition, on the preceding page.
Last edited by jd on Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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paul wright
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| jd wrote: | | hebetude of cognition on the preceding page. |
Sounds like someone's trying to obfuscate the allegedly dull-witted by dazing and confusing with hi-falutin' terminology
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jd
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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There is no obfuscation, I would confute that observation.
Making correct use of what a writer deems to be the most appropriate word or words is an integral aspect of stating one's case, albeit in this case I used the wrong form of hebetude in the first instance as quoted by yourself.
Hebetudinousness of cognition struck me as apt and appropriate.
Words offer the means to expression and clarification - if we use them wisely and defend their meaning. |
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chrisc
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: It make any sense to me |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | | I just wish J7 had expressed their concern in private rather than in public. It didn't make any sense to me. |
It makes sense to me -- would any of the people who contacted Nafeez Ahmed to alert him to that fact that he was being set up have been copied into any private communication about this absurd situation?
I'm really glad the J7 people went public about this and kicked up a fuss, they deserve our thanks 
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http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/topics/terror/ |
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karlos
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jd wrote: |
The reason why none of the organisations you cite above are suing one another is that their products do not fit into the same categories.
According to your own line of reasoning, you are in fact in support of the notion that J7 (The July Seventh Truth Campaign) and other J7s (products/services/organisations unrelated to research of a geopolitical and political nature) are not interchangeable, but are instead disparate and independent of one another. |
Now whose being obtuse?
J7 the Web company
http://www.jseven.co.uk
are in EXACTLY the same business as J7 the website linked to a campaign of sorts.
You claim to know about trademarks - i doubt if you do though
WWF the world wildlife fund and WWF the world wrestling federation both used the logo WWF, this resulted in the wrestlers paying millions to the nature campaign who had the prior use of the trading style.
WWF decided to change to WWE to avoid paying an ongoing royalty.
J7 the web company or J7 the worldwide holder of the mark for most catergories could if they choose demand that the campaign stop using their mark. On the basis that it is devaluing and bringing disrepute by linking their marks with an unpopular campaign.
Ofcourse i am pretty sure they wont. But the fact remains J7 do not own the mark for ANY catergory nor can they claim prior use of the trading style. After all the earliest date they could possibly claim would be 08.07.2005.
Let me remind you, suppose 'coca-cola truth' is the name of a campaign. Ofcourse it has nothing to do with the drink, nor is it involved in the same catergory. But the mark holder still has rights over catergories outside of it's registered uses.
Therefore anyone who wants to can continue to use the style 'J7' as often as they choose to when describing 7/7 because the group calling itself 'J7' has no rights over that name and so no authority other than petty bullying to stop others from using it.
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Prole
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Karlos wrote: | | Therefore anyone who wants to can continue to use the style 'J7' as often as they choose to when describing 7/7 because the group calling itself 'J7' has no rights over that name and so no authority other than petty bullying to stop others from using it. |
It's interesting to note that both Karlos and Rachel North choose to conflate NK with J7:
| Quote: | In fact, the reaction of the families quoted in the media recently in a report about a particularly odious 'J7 Truth' conspiracy theorist, Nick Kollerstrom, (who is also a Holocaust denier who takes his WW2'research' from discredited racist antisemitic far right sources), shows the extent to which conspiracy theories about 7/7 cause distress.
Rachel North |
Accident or design?
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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karlos
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Ridiculous.
Firstly NK is not far right he is a Green Party member and campaigner.
Secondly he is a contributor to and therefore a member of the J7 forum.
When his book is published will you write up a review?
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Prole
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | Ridiculous.
Firstly NK is not far right he is a Green Party member and campaigner.
Secondly he is a contributor to and therefore a member of the J7 forum.
When his book is published will you write up a review? |
You wilfully fail to answer the point as usual.
Nick Kollerstrom may be a member of the J7 forum, as are hundreds of others, but that doesn't make him a representative of J7TC, despite your and Rachel's attempt to conflate them both.
We haven't received the manuscript for his book, despite my requesting it, although I understand many of the chapters are just cut & paste jobs from the J7 website. We would not agree to having our work published under his or anyone else's name and certainly not without our approval.
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Karl
What exactly is it that you do campaign wise because as far as I can tell your sole function is to create mischief and antagonism within the truth movement (and also seek to associate 9/11 and 7/7 truth with a load of bs views that are borderline racist).
This J7 issue is precisely f*ck all to do with you. It is basically down to Belinda who designed the leaflet and the good people who run the July 7 campaign. Belinda has tried explain, acknowledged she was wrong, apologised and will redesign the leaflet.
Belinda should have been aware that this is a sensitive issue (and I fully understand why) because last year there was a similar disagreement between Prole and Tony because of a promotional flyer that he produced. I spoke with Belinda and she assured me she was unaware that this was an issue and once she was aware she issued an apology here and by email. That basically should be the end of it (provided there is no repetition. J7 have every right to choose who they wish to be associated with and who they don't. Now butt out and stop stirring |
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chrisc
Validated Poster
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 154
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: a load of bs views that are borderline racist |
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| ian neal wrote: | | as far as I can tell your sole function is to create mischief and antagonism within the truth movement (and also seek to associate 9/11 and 7/7 truth with a load of bs views that are borderline racist). |
I agree but I'd take it further -- think the views often expressed by karlos (and some others) are clearly on the far side of the line -- now Tony Gosling is in sole charge of this site is there going to be a cleanup of this nonsense?
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karlos
Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Ian, you know fully well i quit your campaign quite some time ago.
The final straw for me was when i was informed by others details of Belinda's previous campaign as a fundraiser for people trafficking by the MKO which is an anti Iranian terror group.
I know many others have quit also but this for me was the clincher. I could not associate myself with that. Borderline racist? In my opinion this matter was imprisonable
What do i do campaignwise?
Well as it happens only yesterday - Thursday i was at an event which i myself hosted and where 70-75 people attended. I am still actively campaigning. Just not under your jurisdiction.
In any case this public forum as you have often said is nothing to do with your campaign. It is a place to exchange views and debate. I am sorry if people find my words unpalatable at times but i call it as i see it.
JD, Prole, Yourself are wrong, J7 have no protectable interest in that phrase so it is wrong to claim that they do.
No biggie.
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jd
Banned
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | JD, Prole, Yourself are wrong, J7 have no protectable interest in that phrase so it is wrong to claim that they do.
No biggie. |
| karlos wrote: | | jd wrote: |
The reason why none of the organisations you cite above are suing one another is that their products do not fit into the same categories.
According to your own line of reasoning, you are in fact in support of the notion that J7 (The July Seventh Truth Campaign) and other J7s (products/services/organisations unrelated to research of a geopolitical and political nature) are not interchangeable, but are instead disparate and independent of one another. |
Now whose being obtuse?
J7 the Web company
http://www.jseven.co.uk
are in EXACTLY the same business as J7 the website linked to a campaign of sorts.
You claim to know about trademarks - i doubt if you do though
WWF the world wildlife fund and WWF the world wrestling federation both used the logo WWF, this resulted in the wrestlers paying millions to the nature campaign who had the prior use of the trading style.
WWF decided to change to WWE to avoid paying an ongoing royalty.
J7 the web company or J7 the worldwide holder of the mark for most catergories could if they choose demand that the campaign stop using their mark. On the basis that it is devaluing and bringing disrepute by linking their marks with an unpopular campaign.
Ofcourse i am pretty sure they wont. But the fact remains J7 do not own the mark for ANY catergory nor can they claim prior use of the trading style. After all the earliest date they could possibly claim would be 08.07.2005.
Let me remind you, suppose 'coca-cola truth' is the name of a campaign. Ofcourse it has nothing to do with the drink, nor is it involved in the same catergory. But the mark holder still has rights over catergories outside of it's registered uses.
Therefore anyone who wants to can continue to use the style 'J7' as often as they choose to when describing 7/7 because the group calling itself 'J7' has no rights over that name and so no authority other than petty bullying to stop others from using it. |
Now Whose (sic) being obtuse?
My dear fellow, the things over which you harbour doubts and confusion could doubtless fill the most voluminous of auditoria. Alas it is not a choice I would willingly make to attempt to assuage the doubts you suffer, for I fear it might take up too much of my time, and I think that it would have to be on a chargeable basis.
It is difficult to know what assertion of yours to correct first, and to be perfectly honest I am not satisfied that you have made sufficient effort to overcome your desire to fudge and smudge to be able to have a reasoned discussion with you. So here's the quick version:
You have absolutely categorically not made any sort of cogent argument in favour of yours or anyone's right other than the The July Seventh Truth Campaign itself to utilise 'J7' or any of its familial nomenclature such as 'J7TC' in specific regard to geopolitical or political research or campaigning.
The issue, yet another time, for you, is that J7 - The July Seventh Truth Campaign is not, does not, and has never attempted to feign another group or individual's identity as though it were their own - to do so would be a dishonourable form of behaviour the like of which you are advocating by your own words.
When the familial vernacular of 'J7' as a descriptor for The July Seventh Truth Campaign came into being, due to being created by The July Seventh Truth Campaign, it was not ever intended to conflict with any other individuals or organisations involved in the same specific activities.
"Management Information Services" or "Web Development Company" are not the same as "research and campaigning". Even if there were true overlaps, the fact remains that J7 have never engaged in affectations or pretences that they have or had any connection with 'jseven'
In terms of visual marks, J7's mark is entirely free of stylistic overlaps with jseven's. Perhaps you will next advocate that in order to preclude individuals from becoming confused as to which is which, J7 should be advised to turn the 'J' upside down and flip the '7' along the horizontal? Although, you may have a point, maybe J7 don't have the right to use their own creation - let's face facts, that is your reserve line of 'reason' is it not?
Why should J7 dare to attempt clarity, delineation, and accuracy? Why should they dare to use their own identity if you are denied the same? Firstly you have attacked them on the basis that there should be less demarcation and more confusion - that anyone should be able to refer to themselves as though they hailed from J7, then you make spurious and indefensible claims toward a goal of ordering that they themselves should not be allowed to call themselves by the nomenclature you covet.
Your risible mode of attack is that of the sandpit, Sir, you say "If I can not have it then no-one can!". You elaborate with "If it is not mine to use - and I want to use it owing to the respect that J7 have engendered through their careful diligence, then I shall attempt to destroy it!"
Quite miserable. And pitiable.
In the very short time I have enjoyed reading your posts, I have become utterly baffled as to what it is that motivates you, certainly not the values I generously supposed.
The degree to which you seem willing to fabricate your own churlish confusion in this matter is indicative of the most admirable form of persistence that is most refreshing.
A shining model for media monkeys everywhere in the subtle art of repetition repetition repetition.
Hebetudinousness of cognition indeed. |
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TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: It make any sense to me |
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Yes Chris and Prole,
People who aren't actually part of the official UK 911 Truth Campaign seem to relish our infighting.
Anyone sensible would have tried to sort it out in private first, then if it was not resolved taken it into the public realms.
It doesn't help the matter having people like Karlos banging his head against a brick wall though trying, embarassingly, to prove the impossible. 
That in the context of a meeting about the 7/7 attacks the use of the two letters J7 isn't important. What a fool.
Of course it's right, sensible, understandable for Brigit, Ant and Beverley at the J7 campaign to want to defend their campaign's reputation from Nick who inexplicably argues that there was not a single gassing of a single concentration camp inmate by the Nazis.
A contention that he has not so far, and I would imagine cannot ever possibly prove.
| chrisc wrote: | | TonyGosling wrote: | | I just wish J7 had expressed their concern in private rather than in public. It didn't make any sense to me. |
It makes sense to me -- would any of the people who contacted Nafeez Ahmed to alert him to that fact that he was being set up have been copied into any private communication about this absurd situation?
I'm really glad the J7 people went public about this and kicked up a fuss, they deserve our thanks |
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