| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
blackcat
Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
|
 Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: Ireland says No to EU - UK to ratify anyway? |
 |
|
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/13/ireland
| Quote: | updateIrish voters reject EU treaty
Henry McDonald in Dublin, James Sturcke and agencies guardian.co.uk, Friday June 13 2008 1.30pm BST
Irish voters have rejected the Lisbon treaty, the country's justice minister conceded today, in a move which throws the entire project of reshaping the EU into turmoil.
Monitors from the Fianna Fáil party at the main count in Dublin told the Guardian that so far the breakdown in votes showed a 52% to 48% majority for the no camp.
"It looks like this will be a no vote," the justice minister, Dermot Ahern, said. "At the end of the day, for a myriad of reasons, the people have spoken.
"We will have to wait and see what happens in the rest of the countries. Obviously if we are the only one to reject the treaty that will raise questions. We are in uncharted territories."
Unofficial early polls suggested voters in most constituencies voted against the Lisbon treaty, the state broadcaster RTE reported. Official results are expected later today.
The no vote was strong in many rural areas and in working-class urban areas, while middle-class areas appeared to be less supportive of the treaty than had been anticipated, RTE said.
Reuters reported that in Dublin, the no camp was ahead in five constituencies and behind in one, while three were evenly split.
Dublin accounts for about a quarter of the country's electorate.
Joan Burton, an Irish Labour MP, said there had been a no majority in her Dublin West constituency.
Speaking at the count, Burton said: "Although there was a lot of misinformation by the no camp in this campaign the message from this result is that whenever the EU draws up a treaty they should make it intelligible to ordinary people.
"That was one of the biggest problems of this campaign – thousands and thousands of people couldn't even understand what the treaty was about."
Antonio Missiroli, director of studies at the European Policy Centre thinktank, said: "This triggers a political crisis in Europe that requires strong leadership in Ireland, in Brussels and elsewhere in Europe.
If the no vote is confirmed later today, the EU is likely to face two options. Either give Ireland an opt out to the treaty or shelve it completely.
Irish government sources said they were "disappointed" at tally predictions of a lower-than-expected yes vote in some constituencies, particularly in rural areas.
The bitter divisions caused by the treaty were visible at the count during ugly scenes involving Ireland's finance minister, Brian Lenihan, and members of Coir, a radical anti-abortion campaign group. Coir opposed the treaty on the grounds that European law could supplant Irish legal bans on abortion – a scenario the Irish government consistently said was impossible.
As the minister attempted to speak to a television news crew he was surrounded by Coir activists who screamed at him and sang: "No, no, there's no no, there's no Lisbon" to the tune of 2Unlimited's No limits.
When Burton attempted to intervene and point out that the minister had a right to speak she was spat at.
Analysts earlier said the turnout of around 40% could tip the balance towards a no vote, bringing about the demise of the controversial and poorly understood pact.
All 27 EU countries have to ratify the Lisbon treaty for it to be passed meaning voters in Ireland – the only country to hold a referendum on the issue – can veto the negotiations. Detractors suggest the treaty is an EU constitution in all but name.
When polls closed last night, RTE reported that voter turnout had failed to exceed 45%.
The Lisbon treaty seeks to reshape EU institutions and powers in line with the bloc's rapid growth in recent years to 27 nations and 495 million people. It proposes many of the same reforms as the EU's previous master plan - a constitution that French and Dutch voters rejected in 2005.
Only Ireland's 3 million registered voters pose a serious threat to ratification, because the other 26 members require approval through their national parliaments.
So far, more than a dozen EU members have ratified it, including the parliaments of Estonia, Finland and Greece on Wednesday, but others have held back while awaiting the Irish referendum result.
The Irish government, major opposition parties and business leaders all campaigned for a yes vote during a month-long campaign that emphasised Ireland's strong benefits from 35 years of EU membership.
The prime minister, Brian Cowen, said he had led the campaign for Irish ratification "as best as I possibly could", and accused anti-treaty voters of spreading lies and distortions.
Pressure groups from the far left and right claimed that the treaty would result in Ireland losing control of everything from its business tax rates to its ban on abortion. Cowen and most of the political establishment branded such claims as nonsense.
Many voters said they did not understand the treaty's implications well enough, and were essentially voting on whether they felt happy with Ireland's place in Europe.
"Ireland would still be the economic basket case of Europe without the EU. We should be doing everything we can to help EU institutions function better, because all the evidence shows they function in our interest," said a pro-treaty voter, accountant Padraig Walsh.
But others complained that the EU's near-doubling in size since 2004 had brought unwelcome change to Ireland, particularly more than 200,000 jobseekers from Poland and the Baltic states who now snap up a majority of available jobs.
"I feel like a foreigner in my own land. There's been too much change, too quick," said anti-treaty voter Eugene Leary, a laid-off construction worker who has turned to part-time taxi work to make ends meet.
"You don't mean to be a bigot or a racist. But you would like to see your country keep control of its identity, and make sure your own people are being looked after first. That's just not happening."
Many no voters said they were annoyed that the Lisbon treaty contains largely the same reform goals as the rejected constitution, and expressed solidarity with the voters of France and the Netherlands who dumped that document. |
YIPPEEEEE!!!!!
_________________
"The conflict between corporations and activists is that of narcolepsy versus remembrance. The corporations have money, power and influence. Our sole influence is public outrage. Extract from "Cloud Atlas (page 125) by David Mitchell. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
karlos
Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Excellent news, i pray its true.
Hip Hip Hooray!
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Justin
9/11 Truth Organiser
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 500
Location: Cumbria / Yorkshire Dales
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So far this seems like excellent news.......only trouble is, the NWO are getting very behind on their timetable for the formation of their major superstates (EU, American Union, Pacific Union) so do not be surprised if major false flag incidents start to occur around the world to whip people back into line. I wonder how long it is before the Irish have to vote again to get the 'right' result.
_________________
Connect to Infinite Consciousness - enjoy the ride! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stefan
Banned
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 1219
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Best news I've heard in a long time!
A big thank you to the people of Ireland!
Sorry to bring things down - but shall we start a poll on what new name they come up for it when they push it through without a referendum in all nations?
They've already had the EU Constitution and the Lisbon Treaty, so obviously they're toning down both the place and the doument name...
How about the 'Hackeny Memo'?
_________________
Peace and Truth |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
karlos
Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The problem ofcourse it Manuel Barosa is taking not the slightest bit of notice. He said the treaty goes on and if it means making the Irish vote again they will force them to keep voting until the 'right' result is achieved.
The French, Dutch, Irish have voted no.
Yet the unelected politburo of commissioners want to continue regardless.
If they had any crumb of decency they would have called a referendum EUROPEWIDE on the same day and allowed everyone to reject it at once.
Now do people who promote the EU finally accept that the EU is a facist undemocratic new soviet union in all but name.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
911Eyewitness
Validated Poster
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 216
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: Ireland Says No, Do the English get a Vote? |
|
|
http://www.ricksiegel.com/web2/node/95
European People Do Not Want Foreign Rule – Governments Do
It was only a few weeks ago that both the French President Sarkozy and his Italian counterpart Silvio Berlusconi were getting ready to start up a new EU army to back up their new federal government in Brussels. Now all this is dashed to the rocks as the Irish, the only people allowed to vote on the Lisbon Treaty resoundingly trashed it.
The Irish understand the EU will be making laws that Irish must follow and that the Irish will have no vote, no say, nothing to do with the laws being made. Further they understand the to allow laws to come from Brussels would mean they no longer could have their own Independence.
At risk for the Irish were their cultural heritage, local laws that conflict with the EU, and even foods allowed to market – all the laws now controlled by appointed lawmakers who have immunity for any crimes they commit while ruling. A fixed game if ever there was.
For an example the government of Spain will not allow the recently striking truckers to set a minimum wage for their work. The Spanish government tells the Spanish people it would be against the EU laws. Spanish law is only for administering fines and making their subjects comply with European law and not for actual law making. The Spanish people may finally wake up to what the royals were doing when they secretly sold their subjects to the new European order through parliament ratification rather than allowing their subjects to read, understand and vote on the rule by foreign nationals. Strikes in Spain used to have effect and gave people the right to redress the way they were governed, now they can protest but in vain. Spain cannot change laws and no one in Europe elects the people in the EU who do. They are appointed!
Now we will watch as the rulers scramble to cash in some other way on the federal law concept. Perhaps now the European people will take a new track and go to freedom from oppression. Governments create Borders and problems. Get rid of them and have a moderating commission that will not create a EU Army like Sarkozy and Berlusconi are hoping for but a world without governments vying for subsidized armies paid with money made off the sweat of their subjects.
According to Kathy Sinnott, independent MEP and fervent opponent of the Lisbon treaty, the French government is keeping a promised blueprint on European defense and security secret until after the crucial vote.
"The French white paper on EU defense has been ready for release since May, but the French government are withholding it until after the Irish referendum," the MEP said, demanding that the text be released immediately.
Less is more EU! Stop interfering with people moving around and working and stop playing with the currency. Stop trying to tell everyone how to live, what is education, what is good and what is bad. You could not even define a woman and call them the “lesser sex.” What is right with you? Nothing, absolutely nothing. There is no reason to create a new more powerful law making body while you still have 26 enslaving you already. Why would anyone want to allow their elected officials to hand off their responsibilities to appointed immune private interests? Stop the EU!
Did the British get to vote or were you just sold out? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Newspeak International
Validated Poster
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 1158
Location: South Essex
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Halt Lisbon Treaty process, PM told
Press Assoc. - 1 hour 28 minutes ago Shadow foreign secretary William Hague has said the Government should now halt the ratification process of the Lisbon Treaty after it was thrown out by voters in Ireland.
"Alone in Europe they have had the chance to make their views known. If democracy in the EU is to mean anything their decision must be respected," he said.
"The British Government must respect the Irish people's verdict. Ratification of the Lisbon Treaty in Parliament must be stopped immediately."
He said that if Government still wanted to go ahead with ratification, it must now give people in Britain a say through a referendum.
The final referendum result showed 53.4% voted No, while 46.6% voted Yes. There were 862,415 No votes to 752,451 Yes votes, a majority of 109,964.
Critics said the "No" vote in Ireland represents the same fatal blow to the Lisbon Treaty as was dealt to the EU Constitution by French and Dutch voters in 2005.
Downing Street declined to comment on reports that the Prime Minister had called French president Nicolas Sarkozy to assure him that British ratification would continue.
The House of Lords this week cleared the way for Parliament to ratify the treaty when it rejected a Conservative bid to force a referendum.
But prominent eurosceptic David Heathcoat-Amory insisted the Government must "go back to the drawing board" and respect the voters of Holland, France and Ireland.
"The Bill before the British Parliament must be withdrawn because under the European Union's own laws this cannot proceed now. The Lisbon Treaty is dead," the Tory MP told BBC Radio 4's The World At One.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20080613/tuk-halt-lisbon-treaty-proc ess-pm-told-6323e80.html
Then there's this:
Miliband to continue with EU plans
Press Assoc. - 35 minutes ago Britain will press ahead with ratification of the Lisbon Treaty despite the "No" vote in the Irish referendum, Foreign Secretary David Miliband has said.
Irish voters stunned Europe's leaders and brought the ratification process shuddering to a halt, voting by 53.4% to 46.6% to reject the treaty.
As jubilant 'No' campaigners celebrated in Dublin, the Tories said that the treaty should now finally be declared dead and called on Gordon Brown to abandon ratification by the UK.
But Mr Miliband said that while it was important to respect the Irish result, there should also be a "British view" on the treaty, as expressed in the ratification bill currently going through Parliament.
"I think it is right that we follow the view that each country must see the ratification process to a conclusion," he said.
"I believe it is right that we continue with our process and take up the Irish offer of further discussions about the next steps forward."
Meanwhile, Tory leader David Cameron said he was "delighted" by the result of the Irish referendum, and called on Gordon Brown to abandon the ratification process in Britain.
"People in Ireland have sent the clearest possible message that they do not want this treaty, they do not want this constitution," he said.
"By all rights now it should be declared dead. The French said 'no' to it, the Dutch said 'no' to it, then it was brought back and the only people who have been given a chance to pass judgment on it, the Irish, have now said 'no' to it.
"The elites in Brussels have got to listen to people in Europe who do not want endless powers being passed from nation states to Brussels. They do not want these endless constitutions and treaties."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20080613/tuk-miliband-to-continue-wi th-eu-plans-6323e80.html
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/glassasylum2
Dave Sherlock's:
http://www.myspace.com/GlassAsylum
http://www.myspace.com/chemtrailsuk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
911Eyewitness
Validated Poster
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 216
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah it is really harsh Tony.
Look how hard it is to get a fair shake when the rulers are close to you!
The governments already pass the buck up the line to the federalis. It is like what they did to my country Tony and it sucks. If you can't knock on their doors they will pull * on you.
I read here at bbc bull http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7453084.stm that the queens men will just sign off on this anyway.
When do people see it is enough? This is such horse nonsense. It was because of things like this I had to leave the USA - can't support such criminals with my body, production or mind. But I see there is no way to keep moving away because away is gone!
Has anyone made any effort there to get people copies of this or educate them? This process is the most hidden enslavement I can imagine. They want that legal sign on so they can inflict what they want, but it first has to pass. They need to keep everyone dumb while they do it. Later, ignorance is no excuse. Suckers. Really pisses me.
Can't anyone do anything there? This is much worse than the Iraq invasion and they had a million in the streets for that nation. This is your freedom! Your nation! Our future!
Do you realize that ANY TIME they had people choose they said no?
I read that beast and it is a monster. The mandatory education, the rights of the "lesser sex", the rights of the child (truly a hidden monster) are still there along with the banking provision giving billions free money to each nation (a special deal so the banks can be above the law).
There are less mountains to hide from these idiots. They have taken food from the shelves here in Spain and told the truck drivers they cannot give them minimum wage because the EU forbids it. Spain can't do anything for Spanish citizens because they do not make the laws!
The Spanish are stupid to the laws. They don't care - too much fiesta. Most of them have no idea what it means and think they DID vote even though they never did. Another royal king signed for them. He owns them anyway and I am just a guest here so I don't disturb his subjects. But ignorance will not be bliss and they do not understand squat. I am just lucky I can walk in the fields and pick my food. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fish5133
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 2568
Location: One breath from Glory
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Probably just ignore the vote, find a way round it, trample over the people. Off to buy a pint of Guinness now its cheaper than petrol
_________________
JO911B.
"for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world, against wicked spirits in high places " Eph.6 v 12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fish5133
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 2568
Location: One breath from Glory
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Celebrate with a pint of Guinness now its cheaper than petrol
_________________
JO911B.
"for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world, against wicked spirits in high places " Eph.6 v 12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leiff
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 509
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Where's Rory when you need him? 
A massive thanks to the Irish 'No' voters from right thinking patriots everywhere.
_________________
"Democracy is sustained not by public trust but by public scepticism"
George Monbiot |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
karlos
Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2516
Location: london
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Youre quite good with those graphics. 
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
blackcat
Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
http://libertyfight.741.com/markdice.html
| Quote: | Nicolas Sarkozy plans to bypass Irish no vote
By Bruno Waterfield in Brussels
Last Updated: 7:56PM BST 13/06/2008
Nicolas Sarkozy, the French President, is working with European Union officials and diplomats to plan a special "legal arrangement" to bypass Ireland's referendum rejection.
Mr Sarkozy takes over the EU's rotating presidency in July and will be tasked with resurrecting, for a second time, Lisbon Treaty proposals first contained in the European Constitution rejected by French and Dutch voters three years ago.
Diplomats and officials have no intention of letting the Irish no vote sink a blueprint to boost the EU's powers on the international stage and to create a President of Europe.
Gordon Brown has already phoned Paris to promise Mr Sarkozy that Britain will ignore Ireland to continue parliamentary ratification of the EU Treaty.
Jean-Pierre Jouyet, the French Europe Minister, has hinted that Paris already has a legal "fix", such as plans revealed in The Daily Telegraph on Wednesday, to keep the EU Treaty alive.
"The most important thing is that the ratification process must continue in the other countries and then we shall see with the Irish what type of legal arrangement could be found," he said.
"We must remain within the framework of the Lisbon treaty."
Eight countries are still engaged in parliamentary ratification of the Treaty but are expected to have finished, without any upsets by the autumn.
Plans to find a "mechanism" keeping Ireland within the EU but temporarily outside the Lisbon Treaty will then be tabled at an October or December meeting of Europe's leaders.
"Ireland must not stop the process of getting the Treaty through. Then we can take stock," said a diplomat close to negotiations.
Mr Brown will join Mr Sarkozy and other EU leaders at a Brussels summit next Thursday to vow that it is business as usual on pushing the Treaty through.
Brian Cowen, the Irish Taoiseach, is expected to support the calls for ratification to continue in other countries and to plead that Ireland is not left behind.
But the British Prime Minister will face strong domestic calls for Parliament's ratification of the Treaty to be halted.
The Conservatives will revive demands for a British referendum as a ICM poll yesterday found that Britons would vote against the Lisbon Treaty by 51 per cent to 28 per cent.
Neil O'Brien, Director of Open Europe, said: "The argument for a referendum in Britain is now overwhelming. Europe's political establishment plan to carry on regardless. Only a referendum in Britain can finally kill this thing off."
Nigel Farage, leader of the UK Independence Party, argued that the EU must honour the Irish vote, the only referendum to place on the Treaty in the EU's 27 member states.
"I suspect that the EU extremists will simply try to ignore it as they did the French and Dutch results," he said.
"The third reading of the treaty in the House of Lords next week must be halted because the project now has no legitimacy."
There are advanced plans in Brussels for a "bridging mechanism" to allow Ireland to be removed from the list of signatories to the Lisbon Treaty after the EU's 26 other member states have ratified it.'
Ireland will continue to remain in the euro and be covered by existing Treaties but will be left out of the creation of an EU president and foreign minister, which would proceed as planned.
By late 2009 or early 2010, when Croatia joins the EU, an amending "Accession Treaty" will be signed by all members including Dublin.
Incorporated into it would be a series of protocol texts giving paper "opt-outs" on controversial Irish EU issues, such as taxation powers or greater military co-operation.
Ireland, like the rest of the Europe, does not hold referendums on EU enlargement treaties and with new protocol opt-outs Dublin may get the Treaty past the Irish parliament without another popular vote. |
_________________
"The conflict between corporations and activists is that of narcolepsy versus remembrance. The corporations have money, power and influence. Our sole influence is public outrage. Extract from "Cloud Atlas (page 125) by David Mitchell. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
isfahan
Validated Poster
Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Where's Rory when you need him? |
Rory was banned several weeks ago. That's why he's not here. I don't expect he'll return even if the ban were now lifted. That's what I understand. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark Gobell
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 4529
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Treaty of Lisbon signed 13.12.2007
Treaty of Lisbon comes into effect 1.1.2009
1 year 19 days
_________________
The Medium is the Massage - Marshall McLuhan. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
911Eyewitness
Validated Poster
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 216
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TonyGosling wrote: | http://www.joconrad.de/
|
This was great Tony, he found some stuff I passed by, but I do not have the "treaty" and only have the original "constitution". They did not really make the treaty available like the constitution was. I had that one in many languages printed.
Where can we get the real copy of the changes?
I can't find my thread on this and somehow this thread is here. What happened? Is this the land of OZ now and what is the deal with several sites now from the last one? Whose on first and what is second base?
What are the Brits going to do? Is brown really going to steamroll this thing right through? How repugnant that would be? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xmasdale
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1959
Location: South London
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes my thanks go to Irish people too.
My message to the politicians is:
"Go back to the drawing board and devise a treaty which put our elected MEPs in charge by making the Commission and the Council of Ministers answerable to us. (So far the Commission is only answerable to the parliament in that the parliament can sack the whole Commission on block. This they have only done once). Then we will see the beginnings of a European democracy emerge. Those who hold power never give it away unless forced to do so. We need to force them." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xmasdale
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1959
Location: South London
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| isfahan wrote: | | Quote: | | Where's Rory when you need him? |
Rory was banned several weeks ago. That's why he's not here. I don't expect he'll return even if the ban were now lifted. That's what I understand. |
I'm in correspondence with him and that's what I understand too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
simplesimon
Moderate Poster
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 249
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
isfahan wrote:
| Quote: | | Rory was banned several weeks ago. That's why he's not here. I don't expect he'll return even if the ban were now lifted. That's what I understand. |
Really? That's disgraceful.
There are few people here who I disagree with more (apart from the Zionist shills and smartars* sideline snipers). I think he is wrong from the heart of his bottom. Almost every word I read (on Europe) was dangerous globalist rubbish, imo.
But, banned ? Why?
He always seemed to me to be honest in his naivete, unlike some here, and I never saw him being particularly unpleasant to other posters. Did I miss something? Surely the best way to respond to his misguided pleas to relinquish our sovereignty is to respond to his ideas, respectfully challenge them, or simply ignore them?
As I think his opinions are diametrically opposed to genuine "truthseeking" and further the agenda of the 911 perps, there might have been a case for putting him in Critic's Corner, but banning him looks like we're unable to deal with his arguments. Sheer cowardice.
xmasdale wrote:
| Quote: |
My message to the politicians is:
Go back to the drawing board and devise a treaty which put our elected MEPs in charge by making the Commission and the Council of Ministers answerable to us. (So far the Commission is only answerable to the parliament in that the parliament can sack the whole Commission on block. This they have only done once). Then we will see the beginnings of a European democracy emerge. Those who hold power never give it away unless forced to do so. We need to force them. |
Hello xmasdale. I'd like to ask:
Do you think our elected MPs at Westminster are "in charge"?
Do you think our elected MPs at Westminster are sufficiently "answerable" to us?
Do you think that your unitary authority / metropolitan authority / regional authority or even your local council are sufficiently "answerable" to us?
Do you think the structure of the European superstate, with it's unelected commission, can ever be "democratic"?
Do you think those who designed said structure ever intended that it be "democratic"?
Do you think we have genuine or meaningful "democracy" in the UK?
Do you think genuine democracy requires that power be devolved, or centralised?
Do you think that anyone other than globalist elitists ever called for, or even considered the notion of, a "European" democracy?
As I haven't expounded my views, simply presenting you with a list of questions, which though rhetorical in style seem to me to be of utmost importance, it would be reasonable for you answer in brief, or simply not bother. However, if you're so inclined, I would ask that you address the following:
xmasdale wrote:
| Quote: | | ...Those who hold power never give it away unless forced to do so. We need to force them. |
Quite. I think almost everyone here would agree.
In which case:
Who is forcing our "elected" representatives to cede power to a superior authority? To what end? Do you think that this force is acting from below, or above?
Regards,
Simon
My message to the politicians and their bankster masters is:
Take your globalist treaty, your drawing board, and your psychopathic plans to rule the world, and shove them so far up your clap riddden ars* that it spews out of your rancid lying mouth - I hope it eviscerates you so completely that all that remains is a stinking pile of the sh*t, pus, slime and bile you comprise. We are getting wise to your lies, and we know that the phoney justification of your power grab is based on lies - "global terrorism", "global warming", "global challenges", "global security", "global threats", "global solutions", global this, global that, global global global blah blah blah.
F*CK YOUR NEW WORLD ORDER
_________________
If you want to know who is really in control, ask yourself who you cannot criticise.
"The hunt for 'anti-semites' is a hunt for pockets of resistance to the NWO"-- Israel Shamir
"What we in America call terrorists are really groups of people that reject the international system..." - Heinz "Henry" Kissinger |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Chat
Usergroups
Calendar
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
