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B
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 Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: Wed25Jun - LONDON - War on Terror UK 3 years on |
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Wednesday 25th June, 7.00 pm
at
Mahatma Gandhi Hall
Indian YMCA
41 Fitzroy Square, London W1
By train: Warren St or Great Portland St tube
London 9/11 Truth presents
War on Terror UK 3 years on – who’s winning??
NB: Due to unforeseen circumstances Nafeez Ahmed will be unable to speak to us on this occasion. He sends his sincere apologies. We’ll be showing a film instead for any who turn up as a result of our leafleting.
with Nafeez Ahmed
Nafeez Ahmed teaches political theory, international relations and contemporary history at University of Sussex and is Director of the Institute for Policy Research and Development - www.globalcrisis.org.uk. He is author of The War on Truth and The London Bombings.
Admission Free
In the three years since July 7th 2005 literally thousands of citizens mostly of Asian/Muslim origin have been stopped and searched by the police and many detained; there have been several abortive or ‘foiled’ terror-plots leading to a string of so-called ‘terror trials’, with 30 such plots still under investigation, we’re told. In the light of mounting reports of police brutality not to mention
the effects on our society and liberties, should we be reassured – or concerned?
British 9/11 Truth Campaign (London)
www.911truthcampaign.net
info@911forum.org.uk
www.patriotsquestion911.com (US & international)
www.911truth.eu (Europe)
www.mujca.com (interfaith)
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| War on Terror UK 3 years on - image |
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| War on Terror UK 3 years on - flyer |
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2008 July 7 & WOT.2.pdf |
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Last edited by B on Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:04 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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chrisc
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gareth
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Is anyone going to record this...? |
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| chrisc wrote: | | I really hope this is going to be recorded, personally I'd be more interested in a good quality mp3 than a video |
Both angles will be covered 
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chrisc
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Prole
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| B wrote: |  |
I'm not aware of any J7 researchers either being invited to speak or agreeing to speak.
Who designed this leaflet and why have J7 been included?
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Last edited by Prole on Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chrisc
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B
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: |
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I apologise to J7-ers for not consulting you about this leaflet, although I did check it with Nafeez. I assumed that the J7 nomenclature is generic for all/any who have done research on this area and who might therefore contribute to the discussion spontaneously, without actually being billed as speakers, as I gather some of you prefer to keep a low profile.
Nick (with whom I’m now informed you’ve had differences prior to this latest fiasco) was keen to update us on the 'terror trials', in particular the ongoing one at Kingston which he’s been following. However under the circumstances that will not now happen, in fact in his own interests and ours it would be best for him not to attend this meeting at all, as I’ll be making clear to him.
I hoped though that others of you would participate, not just Nick – if you remember we had a similar 7/7 focused evening last year when a number of you spoke spontaneously in the Q & A and I imagined/hoped the same would happen this time.
As far as I am concerned 9/11 and 7/7 go together and I believe most in the London 9/11 group see things that way too. It being about to be the 3rd anniversary of 7/7 we felt it to be an appropriate moment to hold an event focusing on what's been happening in UK since our own '9/11', with Nafeez who’s written a book about that as the main speaker, but with input from other researchers.
However I should have checked this out with all of you before announcing it and I apologise for not having done so.
At this point in time hopefully the evening will still go ahead, providing Nafeez is still willing to speak (I’m awaiting his confirmation) and I still hope to see other July 7 researchers there, and that you’ll contribute to the discussion.
The main idea is to continue the search for the truth about the ‘war on terror’ and help redress the injustice towards the Muslim community. Please may that be the overriding concern.
Nevertheless, if you (J7) would prefer me to change the leaflet omitting reference to yourselves I’ll certainly do that. But as said I’m still hoping you’ll join us on 25th.
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Prole
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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J7 acknowledge and accept your apology Belinda - and yes, we would like any reference to J7 to be removed from this leaflet. Further we would also ask that the name J7 and our logo is not included on any future productions by UK911ers, unless permission to do so has been expressly obtained.
We do not accept the argument that 'J7' is a generic term for all researchers into the events in London on 7th July 2005. Rather, J7 signifies J7: The July 7th Truth Campaign, our web site, petition, blog and forum, for J7 is the name of our campaign and is clearly displayed on all these sites and materials that we produce.
Rather than just 'hoping' that members of J7 might participate in this or any other meeting, it would be polite and perhaps more conducive to eliciting cooperation if 911ers had the courtesy to contact J7 in the planning stages of meetings. This would be infinitely preferable and make more sense than J7 receiving top billing alongside Nafeez Ahmed for a proposed meeting about which we had no knowledge. Our contact email, which can easily be found via our website, is julyseventh@fastmail.net
Could you please advise if plans exist for the BBC Conspiracy Files team to attend, film or record the 9/11 meeting on 25th June 2008.
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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B
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Prole & J7 for accepting my apology and on reflection I should have extended that to my colleagues in the London group too because I did not adequately consult them either over this leaflet, or they would have spotted the faux-pas immediately. To tell the truth, on the very day I booked both room & key speaker there was a big Stop-the-War meeting on the subject of the ‘war-on-terror’ and I was keen to get down and leaflet the whole of that, so having checked the content on the phone with Nafeez and with in my mind the idea that this should be a 7/7 evening (which had been approved) I rushed into action. Now that I understand that J7 refers to a particular group within 7/7 research I can well see why you were put out and again I apologise for this discourtesy towards you. I/we shall be more circumspect in future.
As regards inviting you to our meetings, you are permanently welcome, as are all on the London 9/11 list; I trust you always receive the mailings Mike/list moderator sends out? The last one doubled as a flyer about the 25 June/7/7 event and as a notice about the next meeting of the London 9/11 group which happened on Monday, we’d have been delighted if you'd have joined us for that as well as for the event itself. However you were probably by that time too annoyed with us, for the reason that is now clear.
Yes I was told that the BBC crew was intending to come and film but since it’s now going to be just a Nafeez Ahmed evening (Nick having agreed to stay away hence Nafeez having re-confirmed) I doubt they’ll be interested, with all due respect to Nafeez! but they’ve probably been instructed to rubbish 7/7-ers. In any case they need to clear it with us that they are coming and they haven’t so far done so.
And yes I’ll change the leaflet and re-circulate it omitting reference to J7, will do that this very evening.
It’s a shame about Nick really because apart from his recent lapse of judgement he’s a great researcher, he’s done some really useful work on the explosives used in the various terror plots and on the quality of the evidence produced in the current trials. Not to mention having been bravely unwavering in his defence of the 4 innocent Muslim patsies over the whole of the past 3 years. One day when the truth movement is a LOT further on than it is today Nick’s contribution to it and his fundamental humanity will be recognised, rather than any momentary offence he’s given along the way and we’ve all given offence here and there, q. very much e.d. myself.
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jd
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| B wrote: | I apologise to J7-ers for not consulting you about this leaflet, although I did check it with Nafeez. I assumed that the J7 nomenclature is generic for all/any who have done research on this area and who might therefore contribute to the discussion spontaneously, without actually being billed as speakers, as I gather some of you prefer to keep a low profile.
Nick (with whom I’m now informed you’ve had differences prior to this latest fiasco) was keen to update us on the 'terror trials', in particular the ongoing one at Kingston which he’s been following. However under the circumstances that will not now happen, in fact in his own interests and ours it would be best for him not to attend this meeting at all, as I’ll be making clear to him.
I hoped though that others of you would participate, not just Nick – if you remember we had a similar 7/7 focused evening last year when a number of you spoke spontaneously in the Q & A and I imagined/hoped the same would happen this time.
As far as I am concerned 9/11 and 7/7 go together and I believe most in the London 9/11 group see things that way too. It being about to be the 3rd anniversary of 7/7 we felt it to be an appropriate moment to hold an event focusing on what's been happening in UK since our own '9/11', with Nafeez who’s written a book about that as the main speaker, but with input from other researchers.
However I should have checked this out with all of you before announcing it and I apologise for not having done so.
At this point in time hopefully the evening will still go ahead, providing Nafeez is still willing to speak (I’m awaiting his confirmation) and I still hope to see other July 7 researchers there, and that you’ll contribute to the discussion.
The main idea is to continue the search for the truth about the ‘war on terror’ and help redress the injustice towards the Muslim community. Please may that be the overriding concern.
Nevertheless, if you (J7) would prefer me to change the leaflet omitting reference to yourselves I’ll certainly do that. But as said I’m still hoping you’ll join us on 25th. |
A 'common decency' and 'common law' approach to the issue of rights to names and nomenclature
I have some degree of knowledge and experience of things patent, trademark, and copyright, and I think there's a precedent here that might be of assistance to those who are unclear as to where things stand in regard to terrorism nomenclature - specifically 7/7, 21/7 and the like:
'Vacuum cleaner' is a generic descriptive term (known and accepted as the definition of a machine which utilises low pressure to draw dirt and debris into a container for the purpose of cleaning), it is therefore entirely adequate and appropriate.
'Hoover' has also become synonymous with the exact same machine, whilst both are legitimate and appropriate, 'Hoover' will have no precedent prior to its use in this regard by the Hoover company. There may be previous instances of the use of the word 'hoover', but it can be clearly demonstrated that in regard to 'low pressure suction inducing cleaning devices' the term or name 'hoover' is Hoover's, and theirs alone.
Dealing specifically with dates, 'Thursday 12th June 2008' or '12/6/08' as descriptors are widely accepted. In particular regard to the 7th July 2005/July 7th 2005 bombings/incidents', 7/7 was rapidly adopted due to its synergy with 11/3 and 9/11 (9/11 being based on the slightly bizarre practice of jumbling sequentially accrued time and date data in a numerological descriptor).
Clearly, whilst coincidentally selecting the secret society friendly date of 7/7/2005 / '777', al-Q were also being thoughtful about the confusion yet another terrorist atrocity with another transatlantic unfriendly date would cause come media monkey narrative time.
The use of a single letter to describe what are considered to be 'ordinary' dates in isolation (e.g. outside of calendaric systems where sequentiality provides context) is too vague to be of use. If however, the date in question were out of the ordinary and an individual or group first referred to that particular memorable date - in this instance the 7th July 2005 - as "J7" before anyone else did, then that same individual or group would have reasonable and just cause to consider that to be their intellectual property.
The only times J7 have objected to the use of the term 'J7' by others, are when J7 have been at risk of being misquoted, misrepresented, or being impersonated by an other or others, or otherwise at risk of having their extensive and labour intensive research used by others in order to make money, or by accident or design put at risk the reputation and/or efforts of J7 itself.
In a fashion similar to the way a corporate brand name can become a generic term such as 'Coke' in description of cola, there will sometimes arise issues when one organisation has used the other's identity - whether knowingly or accidentally - to describe or market their own products, the 'products' being in this case research and repute.
In this specific instance, there has been - after much investigation by a colleague - no precedent discovered for the use of J7 as a descriptor for the 7th of July 2005 incidents/bombings by any individual or group prior to its use by The July Seventh Truth Campaign, it is therefore demonstrably the case that being created by their instigation, 'J7' is the 'sole common law property' of J7 itself.
Furthermore, the descriptive text "J7 researcher" or "J7 research" is ambiguous and prone to causing confusion when used by others than J7 - The July Seventh Truth Campaign as not being of use as a specific date identifier it can only correctly relate to a broader contextual specificity - in this case The July Seventh Truth campaign.
Taking corporate trademark and copyright laws as a broad model for what I assume to be our embracing of 'common law' fairness, it is appropriate that the descriptor "J7" should only be used with the express pre-consent of J7 itself, as, if we are to hold to the kind of values we aim to protect, this is the only reasonable course to take.
In the name of avoiding any confusion in future, I would recommend that in the case of descriptive copy, video, or audio or any other presentation materials, 7/7, 21/7 and the like are referred to as 7/7, 21/7, and so on in the name of clarity and ingenuosness, as the use of J7 can be clearly demonstrated to conflate the organisation shorthanded to J7 (The July Seventh Truth Campaign) with any other or others whom are not involved with it.
We, it is hopefully safe to assume, are here for the benefit values diluted, re-branded and chipped away and blown apart by the state, ideas such as justice, freedom, fairness - for us to leave any opportunity for anyone to hoist us with our own petards, is to make their cynical game easier, and I would hope that we are not here to lose but rather to succeed in doing what we can in protecting things we are told to hold dear as we are ordered to wave them goodbye.
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chrisc
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject: The BBC and NK-ULTRA |
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| B wrote: | | Yes I was told that the BBC crew was intending to come and film but since it’s now going to be just a Nafeez Ahmed evening (Nick having agreed to stay away hence Nafeez having re-confirmed) I doubt they’ll be interested |
LOL, well that makes their agenda clear doesn't it... 
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Mark Gobell
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Well no.
It makes B's doubt very clear.
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