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guzman
Minor Poster
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 53
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 Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: |
Both are known 911 Truth campaigners.
And anyway - if someone seems to be pedantically trying to foment infighting rather than campaigning for exposure of the NWO they're more likely to be suspended. |
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TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
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guzman
Minor Poster
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | This thread split from the BBC Conspiracy files thread
http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=13033
as almost all of it is about a public meeting Belinda had organised.
BTW the user you mention was banned for publishing a Private Message on the forum. Questions about moderation etc. are usually not noticed on threads by me or other mods so please follow the rules in future by PMing a mod if you have questions about moderation.
http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=99
Users may be suspended or banned if they ignore the forum's rules. |
To quote your good self:
| Tony Gosling; Mon May 07, 2007 2:12 pm wrote: | You're unlikely to be banned unless you regularly break the rules...
Hello |
I don't see why a poster capable of very intelligent posts should be banned without warning or good reason.
jd certainly did not fall into the following category:
| ian neal; Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:27 pm wrote: | Who has been banned? I would need to check to be absolutely sure I have everyone here but from memory the following users have been
in this order
Ignoring countless porn / spammers that attempt to post here
Ally (for being Ally)
Jref and another critic for accusing me of being antisemitic without producing any evidence
TTWSU3, Patrick Brown and Ironsnot for repeated abuse of other posters
Johnny Pixels and Ignatz for repeatedly posting outside CC.
This Forum's Been Took!!! |
he/she was not a spammer, was not relegated to the Critics Corner nor at any time abused another member.
The other week there was a mass mailing by a fervent member of the 9/11 Truth Campaign causing a possibly breach of rule no. 2
2. Respect for moderators and the website, abslolutely no abuse of or mind games with moderators.
I think quite a few have broken number 14 recently
14. No discussion Denying the Holocaust or pushing the Protocols of Zion.
I would argue that he or she, the poster jd, had an exceptional circumstance to post the PM. karlos it seems was attempting to limit his own liability by attempting to bring a public discussion into the private, albeit somewhat leaky, run of the Personal Messenger system. Furthermore jd rightly believed that the PM from karlos was the start of bullying tactics that would attempt to bring him- or herself into submission.
8. Don't post PMs or other private communications on the forum unless in exceptional circumstances.
One occasion where you thought you had an exceptional circumstance to post a PM:
What is the weird code in this new donate box jobby?
| TonyGosling wrote: | | It's sensible to treat people we know are real campaigners more sympathetically than we do anonymous forum posters. |
Apart from playing into the hands of those who deem the right to be anonymous internet a threat to uncivilized society, it hardly promotes an open-armed and welcoming approach to new forum members. You've also failed to provide a worthy reason as to why jd should have been treated unsympathetically. |
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| astro3 wrote: |
‘claiming it was like a holiday camp where inmates sunned themselves by an “elegant” swimming pool and listened to orchestras.’ What utter nonsense! A reference please? |
| Quote: |
Let us hope the schoolchildren visitors are properly taught about the elegant swimming-pool at Auschwitz, built by the inmates, who would sunbathe there on Saturday and Sunday afternoons while watching the water-polo matches; and shown the paintings from its art class, which still exist; and told about the camp library which had some forty-five thousand volumes for inmates to choose from, plus a range of periodicals; and the six camp orchestras at Auschwitz/Birkenau, its the theatrical performances, including a children’s opera, the weekly camp cinema, and even the special brothel established there. Let’s hope they are shown postcards written from Auschwitz, some of which still exist, where the postman would collect the mail twice-weekly.”
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From “Schoool trips to Auschwitz” by Nick Kollerstrom. as quoted ad infinitum on various sites, including once already on this thread. Again, this 'essay' has now been pulled. It's been removed though, so it never happened, eh Nick?
Btw, your second link no longer works either.
For the record, plenty of people will know about this stuff. For example, you reckon in your essay
| Quote: | | There was a camp orchestra, and quite a collection of pictures from the camp art-classes,[9] although these cannot be shown in Germany or Poland, on account of laws prohibiting the doubting of the Holocaust. |
| Quote: | DPA) May 23, 2005 / 2005/05/24, 15:05
Art In Auschwitz 1940-1945 Exhibition Opens in Berlin
Berlin (DPA) – Can “Holocaust art,” like works by Auschwitz prisoners for instance, be shown outside the camp in a typical art gallery? Can it be understood outside the Auschwitz context?
Today, it is hard for many people to grasp the fact that imposing works of art were created in Auschwitz. It was a bold undertaking for the Centrum Judaicum to show the Art in Auschwitz 1940-1945 exhibition in Germany for the first time. Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder opened the show in the exhibition rooms of the New Synagogue on Oranienburger Strasse in Berlin on May 23, 2005.
The illustrated letters, idyllic landscapes, hunting scenes, nudes, harvest scenes, illustrations of the expansion of the camp and the industrial plants and, above all the portraits—in oil, watercolor, or pencil—created by Auschwitz prisoners, [mostly] Polish artists, art students, and amateurs, forfeit none of their impact at the Berlin venue. Visitors need only remember the circumstances under which these often joyous or romantic—but also shocking—images of Auschwitz life came into existence. They are the prisoners’ desperate attempt to salvage even a scrap of their dignity.
The works on show in Berlin, loaned by the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum and slated to be shown later in Osnabrueck and Łódź, are memorable proofs of human cruelty on an unprecedented scale. “Auschwitz is a symbol of the mass slaughter of the European Jews,” as the exhibit organizers state, but it also “aesthetically self-sufficient works of art.” In the coming years and decades, these works will bear witness to Auschwitz when there are no longer any eyewitnesses of those events.
The works on display arose legally, covertly, or semi-legally. Thus, for example, the notorious camp physician Josef Mengele ordered that portraits of Gypsy prisoners be painted for his medical experiments. Other SS men ordered imprisoned artists to paint cheerful pictures, although camp commandant Rudolf Hoess banned such “second-rate, kitschy works” because he feared they would weaken the prisoners’ productive capacity. “My father had to paint SS men with their families and dogs, because that represented a chance for him to survive,” said the daughter of one of the former prisoners while visiting the Berlin exhibition.
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http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/new/index.php?tryb=news_big&language=EN&id =753
As ever, your 'research' is just so painstakingly meticulous...
You may wish to call the police in Germany and Poland....
Or Laurence Rees (who you inexplicably regularly refer to) quite happily told BBC viewers all about the brothel in his high profile documentary series.
Or eyewitnessses like Filip Mueller quite happily go on about the orchestra. It's even talked about in anatomy of Auschwitz death camp which you claim to have read. You'll even find a photo of it on the Yad Vashem website if you bother to look.
Let's face it – you just take stuff that's already known about and in context is totally uncontroversial, yet try to make out it's some kind of 'shocking revelation'. Or art in Auschwitz becomes "art classes" as if it's like something you'd get at your local college.
That is both intellectually dishonest and actually rather pathetic.
Or rather...look, I am totally upfront about not being any kind of expert on this subject, but it strikes me you simply don't know what you're talking about. Even by the low standards of Holocaust denial, your writings are rubbish.
| Quote: | | '[Nk] inexplicably argues that there was not a single gassing of a single concentration camp inmate by the Nazis. A contention that he has not so far, and I would imagine cannot ever possibly prove. ' Er, did I say that? |
Yes you did and you know you did.
| Quote: | | Hi, I note you seem to object to my having defended the proposition that: no German ever put a Jew into a gas chamber. You call that Holocaust Denial, well I’m proud to be associated with it. I’m happy to defend, it any time, any place. It happens to be true! |
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/2014
“Happy to defend it any time, any place” my arse.
Liar.
| Quote: | | I’m saying that the brick walls have a memory because any use of cyanide gas will make it soak into the walls and remain there, even sixty years later, because it’s a permanent complex formed |
Have you actually demonstrated why Prussian blue should have inevitably formed on the gas chamber walls?
| Quote: | | There is one further statement I made that applied to all the labour camps: no diagnosis of death by cyanide-poisoning is on record. This came from US army pathologist Charles Larsen who visited the camps at the end of the war for this specific purpose. |
Dear me Nick, your memory really is failing you these days
| Quote: | Your quote re Dr Larson is interesting. You reference crime doctor directly. So you're telling us you've read the book. I haven't read it. But it was recently quoted directly on RODOH -
Quote:
The majority died of natural diseases of one kind or the another.
However, we did probe into such questions as, 'What happened to those
prisoners who became psychotic at Dachau? What did the Gestapo do with
them?' Well, they took those people to the crematorium. First,
however, they were taken to a big windowless building next to the crematorium
where the ceiling was covered with false shower heads. The victims were then
ordered to strip and take a 'shower.' Outside the building, guards dropped
in cyanide pellets. Then they'd blow the cyanide gas out and remove the
bodies next door to the crematorium ovens. I think this is what happened
to most of the truly psychotic prisoners and those they considered unruly
and unmanageable and who, in the Gestapo's opinion, were incorrigibles.
But, in my opinion, only relatively few of the inmates I personally
examined at Dachau were murdered in this manner. Still, medical
facilities were totally inadequate. When people fell hopelessly ill and death was
imminent, and when they grew so weak they could no longer work or
function, they were taken to the cyanide room for disposal. The Nazi
called them 'mercy killings' because there was no hope of them getting
well. Actually, the Germans considered them a liability, and extermination
was the answer
http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/94381/t/What-Outrages-Revisionists-Th e-Most.html#reply-94381
cited as p.61. You fail to give any particular page reference.
So he actually talked about some gassings at Dachau (a controversial claim in the other direction)?
Or -
Is the poster there - Philip Matthews - lying? Can you cite actual quotes to the contrary? If so, please go tell him he's lying or else I'll pop across myself and ask him about it. After all, you're telling us you've read it yourself and you've obviously come to a very different reading.
I discount the fact you've been bamboozled by a typical denier quote-distorting exercise as you're giving a direct reference and you've already said you spent months checking every reference in the British library.
But I certainly don't see how the quoted passage sits well with
Quote:
his refusal to diagnose cyanide as a cause of death in the German labour-camps.
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http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=14359&start=90
Nick – answer one thing with honesty – did you actually read that book?
As someone with a Phd, you should be fully aware of the standards of research you should perform and familiarity with the literature you should achieve before you declare yourself an authority on a given subject.
| Quote: |
That has millions of documents concerning all the persons who lived and died in the German WW2 camps, and is the centre for all this information. He confirmed that they had not got a single record of death by that cause. So he confirmed what eminent US pathologist Larsen had found at the end of the war. Notice that this argument is not conclusive but only suggestive – you can still have mass cyanide gassing but with no-one recording the cause of death anywhere. I’m a little wary of these ‘they destroyed all the records’ arguments.
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It does not have records concerning “all the persons”. I don't know where you got that from.
As I pointed out on the same thread referred to above, this is a particularly daft straw man argument.
How's lady Renouf? Did you have a nice chat with her about Jews? It seems to be all she goes on about in her public material. Perhaps she will introduce you to her good friend David Duke...?
I agree 100%. |
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Prole
Validated Poster
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 632
Location: London UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| astro3 wrote: | First of all, let me apologise to everyone for probably the dumbest thing I've done for a long, long time, viz give an interview with the Standard - copied the next day to a whole load of other papers. I'll quite appreciate if anyone doesn't want anything more to do with me after that. I was astounded by the sheer, outright mendacity displayed by Rob Mendick on almost every point. I reproduce below a reply which I posted on Indymedia.
I keep waking up in the morning asking myself, how could I have done anything as dumb as that? Maybe just say, I'm credulous and trusting.
Second, I and Belinda brewed up the idea of a meeting on the 25th, for the nearest we could get to to the 3rd anniversary of July 7th. She invited me, and I said I would really like to discuss recent developments in the topic. Then next thing I knew an adjusted program had Nafeez billed as the only named speaker - on a quite general theme - and 'J7 researchers' also included, with a tacit understanding that I would be one of these. A fatal endeavour! Weren't nothing to do with me. Bridget has not stopped moaning since, how come I'm trying to pretend to be a 'J/7 researcher'? Well maybe its about time she came out and told us how her little clique of J7 is defined and how anyone gets to be a member? At no time did I propose or wish to share a platform with Nafeez. (He'd protest at me being a H-D, while I might object to his acceptance of Islamic guilt, both for 9/11 and for 7/7.)
I do agree about not having me on any 9/11 'truth' platform - sounds like Groucho Marx saying he wouldn't like to belong to any club that would have him as a member.
You guys had better hope that Nafeez turns up, after all this griping!
I hope there won't be any undue hate and rage if I just quietly turn up in the audience on 25th. So, no speaker will be holding forth about the tremendous developments in the July 7 story, from the Kingston trial, at any public meeting on the 3rd anniversary. Period. You lot want to have a 'the Muslims-did-it' speaker' - one whom Rachel and Milan Rai are quite happy to share a platform with. |
Dumbest thing? No Nick, working with the BBC on their risible Conspiracy Files will prove to be even dumber.
As for how 'Bridget's little clique of J7' is defined, this statement alone speaks volumes about your attitude to J7. The J7 campaign is defined by our serious research which is comprehensive and thorough. We work as a 'collective', cooperatively, something which our previous experiences with you have proved you're incapable of. When we were getting started as a campaign, you attempted a 'coup' in the form of a 'vote of no confidence' against one of the 3 editors of the website. Why? Because we couldn't publish your articles as they were poorly constructed and badly researched. It's hardly surprising that we refused to work with you or your ego after this episode.
You can claim to be 'dumb, incredulous and trusting' after the event Nick, but J7 attempt to use our understanding of the role of the corporate media, including the BBC, in supporting the State and its apparatus, when we make decisions about how and whom we'll cooperate with.
_________________
'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | | this 'essay' has now been pulled. |
In fact it appears that it has been moved and Kollerstrom's name removed from it....
http://www.codoh.com/incon/incontrip.html
...as to whose idea this "CODOH revisionism" was... perhaps Nick can answer...? |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Prole wrote: | | astro3 wrote: | | First of all, let me apologise to everyone for probably the dumbest thing I've done for a long, long time, viz give an interview with the Standard -..... |
Dumbest thing? No Nick, working with the BBC on their risible Conspiracy Files will prove to be even dumber......... |
Well that's debatable.
It is a toss up between these various 'dumb things'
(1) Deciding to 'research' the holocaust. Of all the many people and events in history you could choose to research that could wake up the wider public as to how we are being systematically lied to and manipulated by corrupt elites, you choose this most divisive and sensitive of subjects.
(2) Having decided to focus on this topic, making such a poor job of it, then expressing your poorly researched findings in such a clumsy and offensive manner and then choosing CODOH (with all its history and associations) as a suitable forum to put this 'research' in the public domain in a manner which made it easy to trace back to you.
(3) Ignoring the advice of many of us not to participate in the 7/7 CF programme, when even the most basic research showed this producer would be unlikely to show you in a favourable light and knowing how the previous series had gone out of its way to present 9/11 truth campaigners as a bunch of 'anti-semites'.
(4) Giving an interview to the smooth talking but obvious stitch-up merchant Rob Mendick
(5) And finally encouraging (or certainly not discouraging) 'Lady' Michele Renouf, with all her associations on the subject, to speak in your defence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Renouf |
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astro3
Suspended
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 274
Location: North West London
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree with Dogsmilk concerning the dire folly of my words on ‘Blairwatch’ – which alas I cannot withdraw because they won’t let me back into their site. All I can say is, I’ve been under a lot of stress.
As we say goodbye to the old nineeleven.co.uk, note that if you Google that, my article ‘Nine Keys to 9/11’ will come up directly underneath that main URL. Thus its hit rate is higher than any other article on that site. That article got a good plug from the prestigious ‘Physics9/11’ site.
The London 9/11 meeting on 25th this Wednesday, which this thread is about, was set up in order to have a discussion of recent developments in the July 7 story, on the 3rd anniversary of that event. This will alas not happen, and merely some old films will be shown, because no-one except myself appears to be capable of speaking on that subject - and I’m suddenly not ‘OK.’
You lot had the opportunity of having the BBC filming us having an intelligent discussion of the developing 7/7 story at that meeting, and why the official line cannot be true, so all the world could have got to hear our views. But O, no, you didn’t want that – you just wanted to whinge about me being not OK, and the BBC film crew being . ..etc.
What do the J7 team want? They slag off the Ripple Effect just when it is becoming rather relevant, slag off Obachicke’s self-produced book when he claims he was at Tavistock Square, slag off Tony Gosling when he wants to make a statement about Verint Systems and the tube CCTV etc, in some way on behalf of ‘the’ July 7th movement, slag off the BBC Conspiracy Files team when they approach, slag off me after I’ve been character-assassinated by the press, and for having tried to contact persons who were involved with the event, and refuse an invitation to dialogue at a 9/11 meeting (instead, griping at Belinda because she failed to realize that the two letters ‘J7’ had supposedly been appropriated by them); then they keep calling for an independent Enquiry into the event, which everyone including themselves knows cannot ever happen.
Is it that they don’t feel they have been admired enough? Ok, here goes: the work of the J7 team is totally brilliant, and without them we’d all be in the dark. Will that do?
On a different topic, I notice that people on this thread –and elsewhere - are moaning about me having been to dinner, once, with Lady Michele Renouf. She’s an Aussie former model who has worked in the advertising industry, and has never belonged to the BNP or any Neo-Nazi organization. Her letter in last week’s Jewish Chronicle said:
| Quote: | | The facts are that Iran is a peace-loving country in which its Jews are not in any way abused; as opposed to the brutish state policy of the Zionist Entity of Israel towards its indigenous, genuinely Semitic and helplessly victimised Palestinians. Your newspaper’s characteristic demonising of Israel’s opponents cannot disguise these facts, nor can it obscure the race supremacism inherent in the Zionist project. |
Is that not rather commendable, as a JC letter? |
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IanFantom
Validated Poster
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 296
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Dumb things |
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| ian neal wrote: |
It is a toss up between these various 'dumb things'
(1) Deciding to 'research' the holocaust. ... |
What!?
"There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them" - George Orwell. |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Dumb things |
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| IanFantom wrote: | | ian neal wrote: |
It is a toss up between these various 'dumb things'
(1) Deciding to 'research' the holocaust. ... |
What!?
"There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them" - George Orwell. |
All I'm saying is that given that all the different subjects Nick could have choosen to research, that the decision to focus on the holocaust was probably not the wisest especially if you have aspirations to be taken seriously by the mainstream media and the wider British public. Of course we are all free to research whatever we fancy. I'm merely questioning whether this was a wise strategic choice. |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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I've just received this announcement from the London 9/11 truth email listing.....
Due to unforeseen circumstances Nafeez Ahmed will be unable to speak to us on this occasion; he sends his sincere apologies. We’ll be showing a film instead for any who turn up as a result of our leafleting – hopefully we’ll get some new recruits! |
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | On a different topic, I notice that people on this thread –and elsewhere - are moaning about me having been to dinner, once, with Lady Michele Renouf. She’s an Aussie former model who has worked in the advertising industry, and has never belonged to the BNP or any Neo-Nazi organization. :
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She does, however, happily hang round with them. Here she is speaking for the "British People's Party"
| Quote: | Forty plus Racial Nationalists gathered at a private meeting room in Hove, Sussex on April 21st to celebrate St.George’s Day. Members from the BPP mixed well with BNP and NF members and supporters as well as some other smaller groups.
The speakers were Tess Culnane, formerly a BNP election candidate; Peter Rushton, National Speaker for the BPP; Eddy Morrison, National Political Advisor of the BPP and Lady Michelle Renouf, renowned Revisionist. The meeting was ably chaired by Dave Jones, the National Youth Leader of the BPP Youth Division.
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http://www.bp p.org.uk/hovemeeting.html (link broken as they are Nazi scum)
This is a quick post as I'm busy, but I can find you other interesting examples if you like. Like that Evenning Standard article on David Irving's site talking about how the BNP have actually distanced themselves from her...and we all know she's mates with David Duke...come on Nick, just because she doesn't have a party membership card, everyone knows where she's at politically...and now...
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guzman
Minor Poster
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | | Quote: | On a different topic, I notice that people on this thread –and elsewhere - are moaning about me having been to dinner, once, with Lady Michele Renouf. She’s an Aussie former model who has worked in the advertising industry, and has never belonged to the BNP or any Neo-Nazi organization. :
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She does, however, happily hang round with them. Here she is speaking for the "British People's Party"
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Seems like Kollerstrom is trying to tie us in with the next group of 'terrorists'.
| Quote: | Hilter-obsessed loner wanted race war and armed himself with nail bombs, a court hears
By Chris Brooke
Last updated at 5:27 PM on 16th June 2008
Martyn Gilleard idolised Adolf Hitler and was planning to wage a race war, a court heard today
A Nazi fanatic with a terrorist's armoury in his flat was preparing to wage a race war to stop Britain becoming a multi-ethnic society, a court heard today.
Martyn Gilleard, 31, was a white supremacist who idolised Adolf Hitler and urged sympathisers to 'stop talking and act' or the 'purity of the white race will be lost forever'.
When police raided his flat they found a terrifying arsenal of weapons, including four nail bombs hidden under his bed, bullets and an assortment of bladed weapons including swords, knives and a machete, Leeds Crown Court heard.
They also discovered DIY bomb manuals, a guide to how to make your own sub-machine gun and internet instructions on 'how to assassinate people and get away with it by using poison'.
A speech he had written by hand in a personal notebook mentioned 'killing Muslims, blowing up mosques and fighting back'.
Gilleard claimed he was a bored internet surfer with an innocent interest in weapons who didn't intend to harm anyone, but the prosecution told the jury he was preparing for acts of terrorism.
Forklift truck driver Gilleard, of Goole, East Yorkshire denies three charges of the preparation of terrorist acts, possession of material for terrorist purposes and collection or possession of information useful in the preparation of an act of terrorism. He earlier admitted a charge of illegally possessing 34 bullets without a licence.
Andrew Edis, QC, prosecuting, told the jury this was 'not a trial about ideals and freedom of speech' but about 'why a man had four nail bombs under his bed'.
The prosecution claim Gilleard, a father-of-one, intended to use the arsenal for terrorism or to pass them on to someone else to use.
Detailing the haul of allegedly incriminating material, Mr Edis said the defendant had copied long sections of the 'Anarchist's Cookbook' from the internet. They included sections on letter bombs, an explosive pen, pipe hand grenades, light bulb bomb, CO2 bombs and obtaining acid from aspirin.
Another document set out instructions about how to make a car bomb.
Counter-terrorist police discovered a 'shopping list' of 'things he wants or needs' which included nails, rocket fuel, steel tubing, crossbow and bolts, books on guerrilla warfare and 'survival kit' items such as a tent and sleeping bag.
Mr Edis said he was a member of the extremist British People's Party and the National Front. He owned a Nazi dagger along with other ornamental emblems and pictures of Hitler and Nazi troops on the wall.
He said: 'This is a man who did have a profound interest and admiration for Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist movement.'
The court heard the passwords he used on the internet included the numbers 1488, with the 88 representing the words Heil Hitler. The number 14 was a code which referred to a 14-word racist motto used by the white supremacist David Lane in the United States.
Gilleard had accepted that everything found in his flat was his, but told police that he had researched the internet documents out of curiosity.
The 'simple' nail bombs were made by taping nails to plastic 35 mm film canisters filled with shotgun powder. When questioned by police he said he made them 'ages ago to see if I could' while drinking a few 'cans'.
The court heard his five-year-old son slept on the bed where the bombs were kept when he visited Gilleard.
Mr Edis said the jury needed to understand the defendant's political beliefs to judge what the bombs and bullets were planned for.
He said Gilleard had previously handed out leaflets in the street and by the time of his arrest in October last year had moved on to 'someone who wanted to do something'.
Detectives found a document in his flat which was a 'blueprint' for the formation of an extremist group with its own 'mobile strike force'.
In a notebook they found a speech aimed at racist sympathisers. He wrote: 'Be under no illusions, we are at war. It's a war we are badly losing. I am sick and tired of hearing nationalists talking of killing Muslims, blowing up mosques and fighting back only to see these acts of resistance fail. The time has come to stop the talking and start to act.'
It continued: 'We need men who will fight to do whatever it takes. This is a war we cannot afford to lose. If we fail we will be facing a racial abyss.'
The case continues.
Daily Mail |
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | eems like Kollerstrom is trying to tie us |
To be honest, I'm not convinced he is intentionally.
Is a way that's almost worse... |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| astro3 wrote: | The London 9/11 meeting on 25th this Wednesday, which this thread is about, was set up in order to have a discussion of recent developments in the July 7 story, on the 3rd anniversary of that event. This will alas not happen, and merely some old films will be shown, because no-one except myself appears to be capable of speaking on that subject - and I’m suddenly not ‘OK.’
You lot had the opportunity of having the BBC filming us having an intelligent discussion of the developing 7/7 story at that meeting, and why the official line cannot be true, so all the world could have got to hear our views. But O, no, you didn’t want that – you just wanted to whinge about me being not OK, and the BBC film crew being . ..etc.
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There is no problem with you organising such an event in an individual capacity. My concern was that by advertising the event in the way that it was it would be portrayed and perceived that either the British 9/11 Campaign or the London 9/11 Truth Group or J7 was endorsing it. I hadn't realised that there was a possibility that the BBC would have filmed it but personally I'm glad this opportunity has been lost.
I'm utterly dumbfounded (although I probably shouldn't be) that you appear to believe that the BBC Conspiracy Files team are going to present you in a way that you will consider fair and balanced. They won't. As Mike Rudin's blog http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/mike_rudin/ says "Along with his views of 7/7, Nick Kollerstrom's views about the Holocaust will be scrutinised and challenged in the programme. When the documentary is broadcast in the Autumn you will have the chance to decide for yourself what the facts are about the 7/7 conspiracy theories and the theorists who promote them."
Do you really imagine the BBC C/F programme will agree with you either about 7/7 or the holocaust? No, of course they won't. They will use the footage they already have to try and suggest that you (and your wider views) are typical of "the theorists who promote 7/7 conspiracy theories". Just as they did in the first 9/11 C/F programme they will seek to associate "the theorists" with anti-semitism
http://debunking-bbc.blogspot.com/#link4
As we both know your views on the holocaust are in no way typical or representative either of the 9/11 truth movement (or 9/11 conspiracy movement as the BBC call us) or the 7/7 truth movement. This is why I have stated unequivocably that the British 9/11 Truth Campaign does not wish to be associated you or your views and why J7 similarly do not wish to be associated with you.
| astro3 wrote: | | What do the J7 team want? |
I would have thought that was fairly clear. To speak on their own behalf and to choose who they associate and are associated with.
| astro3 wrote: | | .....slag off Obachicke’s self-produced book when he claims he was at Tavistock Square |
Given Daniel's silence on this matter and the unsubstantiated nature of his claims, I'm wary to give too much credence to them
http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=97178
| astro3 wrote: | On a different topic, I notice that people on this thread –and elsewhere - are moaning about me having been to dinner, once, with Lady Michele Renouf. She’s an Aussie former model who has worked in the advertising industry, and has never belonged to the BNP or any Neo-Nazi organization. Her letter in last week’s Jewish Chronicle said:
| Quote: | | The facts are that Iran is a peace-loving country in which its Jews are not in any way abused; as opposed to the brutish state policy of the Zionist Entity of Israel towards its indigenous, genuinely Semitic and helplessly victimised Palestinians. Your newspaper’s characteristic demonising of Israel’s opponents cannot disguise these facts, nor can it obscure the race supremacism inherent in the Zionist project. |
Is that not rather commendable, as a JC letter? |
In the recent article where 'Lady' Renouf speaks in your defense she praises to the hilt the Iranian Holocaust conference, a conference that gave a platform to former KKK grand wizard David Duke.
I'm sorry Nick. I know you not to be a neo-nazi or associated with the far-right and I dare say you are sincere in your views and you have found these claims in the newspapers to be v hurtful, but you are being played well and truly like a kipper both by the BBC and the papers. I don't doubt that this will become abundently clear once the 7/7 C/F programme is broadcast. |
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karlos
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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You mean like the Swiss President which wanted to hold a H perception meeting?
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3409901,00.html
denounced by the ADL.
I wonter how many ADL staffers are one this forum?
ps:
you forget to mention others who attended the conference and also shared a platform with David Duke.
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| karlos wrote: | I wonder how many ADL staffers are on this forum?
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Who knows?
But if I were sitting in ADL central command desperately trying to associate 9/11 and 7/7 'conspiracy movement' with anti-semitism as a means of discrediting 'conspiracy theorists' without having to address any evidence, do you know what I would do?
I would get a load of muppets (either agents or 'useful idiots', it matters not) to post ad nauseum on 9/11 web forums a load of poorly researched dross about the holocaust, making sure that the websites and authors that are cited as sources are clearly associated with the far-right. And just in case that doesn't completely discredit these conspiracy theorists, then I would throw in a couple of messiahs with a penchant for quoting the protocols of the elders of zion for good measure.
Like I say, I don't know who are the agents and who are 'useful idiots', but the strategy is plain enough.
You just couldn't make this nonsense up |
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paul wright
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | | Quote: | | eems like Kollerstrom is trying to tie us |
To be honest, I'm not convinced he is intentionally.
Is a way that's almost worse... |
The more I hear about it the more I wonder.
Do people, who say they know him, really know him?
He certainly couldn't have been more potentially damaging if he were a paid up infiltrator.
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | He certainly couldn't have been more potentially damaging if he were a paid up infiltrator. |
Well no. Maybe Greek tragedy is making a comeback, I dunno.
Still, why not put your feet up, crack open a beer and relax with Lady Michele having a good ol' time with (among others) David Duke and Nick Griffin and have a hearty sing along with white nationalist pop combo Prussian Blue. After all, soon everyone will think these people are your friends so you may as well get acquainted. And it's a snip at $65!
One wonders if Lady Michele ever got hold of one of those infamous Prussian Blue t-shirts...
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paul wright
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | After all, soon everyone will think these people are your friends so you may as well get acquainted.
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Yes. I think you are right. Though perhaps if people would stop defending him, condemning him, entertaining him, arguing the toss,if only he would shut up, perhaps we could at least have a breather from this viral poison spreading through the web, that's already doing the job.
I wonder if there weren't some intimate goss involved,- it wouldn't be the first time
It's helpful to think 'agent', I think. The guy has a bizarre and untrustworthy character. Every element in his "self-defence" seems to speak agent as he digs ever deeper holes for himself and us
His association with agency controlled far right organisations - dont they just love the far right, they don't even have to pretend in their work, though much the same applies to the left, the SWP for instance is controlled up to the hilt (I think it was Tarpley who said -dont want to start another argument "when they see the train leave the station, the agents jump on board")- speaks volumes
No matter what defenders of free speech and free research may protest this is a well thought out stitch up from top to bottom and Kollerstrom's at the centre.
Ponder on that comrades.
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Last edited by paul wright on Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TonyGosling
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paul wright
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | That's another fine mess - and another victory for the 7/7 perpetrators.
Nick has prepared a talk on 7/7 post the Kingston trial. Can't someone not from the official 911 campaign record Nick on video or audio so Joe public can decide for themselves how 'dangerous' the man is.
| ian neal wrote: | I've just received this announcement from the London 9/11 truth email listing.....
Due to unforeseen circumstances Nafeez Ahmed will be unable to speak to us on this occasion; he sends his sincere apologies. We’ll be showing a film instead for any who turn up as a result of our leafleting – hopefully we’ll get some new recruits! |
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I would record, Tony, that all this stems from Nick himself
It's hard to draw any other conclusion
Whatever libertarian inclinations I might have myself, and they are manifold, I think Nick needs earnestly shutting down as far as we are capable. Maybe a sad result, and a temporary victory for the perps - maybe just maybe....
You and I are in the same probable target area and just ought to be disassociating. No forgiveness or human feelings. You ought to be able to see what the issues are here. No defence of previous positions!
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chrisc
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: a load of muppets |
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| ian neal wrote: | if I were sitting in ADL central command desperately trying to associate 9/11 and 7/7 'conspiracy movement' with anti-semitism as a means of discrediting 'conspiracy theorists' without having to address any evidence, do you know what I would do?
I would get a load of muppets (either agents or 'useful idiots', it matters not) to post ad nauseum on 9/11 web forums a load of poorly researched dross about the holocaust, making sure that the websites and authors that are cited as sources are clearly associated with the far-right. And just in case that doesn't completely discredit these conspiracy theorists, then I would throw in a couple of messiahs with a penchant for quoting the protocols of the elders of zion for good measure.
Like I say, I don't know who are the agents and who are 'useful idiots', but the strategy is plain enough.
You just couldn't make this nonsense up |
Well said, so, what I don't get, is why the hell do you (the people running this site) put up with this nonsense, week in week out, for years???
Other serious 9/11 truth site just ban these clowns -- but here they are alowed to disrupt and post to such an extent that it appears that the people running this site are happy to be made to look like, at best, total idiots...
The big test approach isn't working people, it is making you all look like a bunch of far-right nut cases...
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TonyGosling
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chrisc
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paul wright
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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I'll tell you for one thing, Tony. He just couldn't believe a Saddique Khan's relative's account. Nuff said about that, but this was no angel from heaven which was the point of view he wanted to present at the aborted Beeston meeting
There is a whole lot of depth of NK's stuff that I wouldn't want to go public with, but having thought this matter over and over, my conclusion is that this guy is truly dangerous and should be fully rejected by the Truth movement as should his defenders posting here
I'll allow the already 'wierd' independent thinkers their defensive say
This is a group matter
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John White
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: |
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This topic went south somewhat and had to be locked
I've trimmed it back into some kind of fit condition so that the discussion can continue
If anyone wants to continue or read the section of the topic that has been split you can find it here:
http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=15104
Regards, John
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