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marky 54
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
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 Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:56 am Post subject: wtc7 report? |
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anyword on the WTC 7 report as yet? anyone have an idea of when it is now due out?
its like being left on hold when you phone to complain about something or get answers as to why your being over charged.
heres some music while we wait.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLKAq_hOuk8&feature=related |
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SHERITON HOTEL
Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Why don't NIST consult RKOwens4 or the rehabilitated contrite Bushwacker when he gets back from suspension?
Thanks for the link |
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Stefan
Banned
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 1219
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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One thing's for certain - it could be another 20 years and the critics would still be saying "there's no point talking about WTC7 until the NIST report comes out"...
...Never mind the fact that the experts who say it was a controlled demolition have the exact same information at their disposal as NIST and their reported third party contractor have had for years anyway.
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pepik
Banned
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Here's a question... the report is years in the making. How long will it take truthers to reject the report?
1. Several months of study
2. A few days of careful analysis.
3. One day
4. Hours.
5. The few minutes it takes to slap any old arguments together and put them up on the web.
6. It has already been sneeringly rejected even before it has been published by the kinds of people who never read the preliminary reports and think Danny Jowenko is an expert on CD except when it come to WTC 1 and 2 where his opinion is ignored.
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"could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section. |
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Stefan
Banned
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 1219
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| pepik wrote: | | Here's a question... the report is years in the making. How long will it take truthers to reject the report? |
It's not years in the making - it's years in the avoiding.
There has been no new evidence since the release of the FEMA report - and the same evidence has already been analysed by INDEPENDENT experts who have concluded it was a controlled demolition.
Now the question is how long it will take "critics" to pronounce the mystery is solved once the report (if ever) comes out:
1. Immediatley without even reading it
2. Immediatley without even reading it
3. Immediatley without even reading it
4. Immediatley before it's even released
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marky 54
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 4. Immediatley before it's even released
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they already do it, and have been for quite a while. yet try to accuse truthers of doing it in the future. you cannot make up that level of hypocriticalness. |
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Alex_V
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Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 515
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Stefan wrote: | | It's not years in the making - it's years in the avoiding. |
Evidence? Your speculation.
| Quote: | | There has been no new evidence since the release of the FEMA report - and the same evidence has already been analysed by INDEPENDENT experts who have concluded it was a controlled demolition. |
Again utter speculation. You are saying that the NIST report, which hasn't been released yet and you haven't seen, will contain no new evidence. Any proof of this?
| Quote: | Now the question is how long it will take "critics" to pronounce the mystery is solved once the report (if ever) comes out:
1. Immediatley without even reading it
2. Immediatley without even reading it
3. Immediatley without even reading it
4. Immediatley before it's even released |
Unfair criticism in my opinion. Any evidence that critics have prejudged the report? |
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SHERITON HOTEL
Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| NIST could also consult Alex V/Northern soul or Pepik for the definitive explaination of WTC7's CD style collapse 9/11, am I right? |
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Alex_V
Wrecker
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 515
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| These are classy comments - the equivalent of booing a footballer from the terraces as he comes forward to take a penalty. You really are striking a blow for freedom here... |
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Stefan
Banned
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 1219
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Alex_V wrote: | | Stefan wrote: | | It's not years in the making - it's years in the avoiding. |
Evidence? Your speculation. |
It's a statement of the bloody obvious - they had the collapse sequence pinned down years ago - the exact same sequence Danny Jowenko got after just looking at the collapse - all they have to do is show how the debris damage and fire caused it to happen.
Considering the whole South Side of the building was obscured and the inside of the building is unkown you'd think this would be a pretty easy thing to do - yet for some reason they've missed two deadlines and (according to reports) now contracted it out, or punted it.
Saying a kid is avoiding giving their homework in is speculation - after all the dog could have really eaten it, it could have been carryed away in a gust of wind, it could have been dropped on the stove and burnt - at some point a judgement call is called for.
| Quote: | | There has been no new evidence since the release of the FEMA report - and the same evidence has already been analysed by INDEPENDENT experts who have concluded it was a controlled demolition. |
Again utter speculation. You are saying that the NIST report, which hasn't been released yet and you haven't seen, will contain no new evidence. Any proof of this?[/quote]
What new evidence could they have? The wreckage was cleared away before the FEMA report even got done. They have videos, they have photos, they have testimoney, and they have the building plans. The same things every one else has got. And everyone besides fanatical supporters of authority have called it - it's a controlled demolition.
| Quote: | Now the question is how long it will take "critics" to pronounce the mystery is solved once the report (if ever) comes out:
1. Immediatley without even reading it
2. Immediatley without even reading it
3. Immediatley without even reading it
4. Immediatley before it's even released |
Unfair criticism in my opinion. Any evidence that critics have prejudged the report?[/quote]
Perhaps unfair - it was a response to a similar attack by pepik. I do have though, for example, that the standard critic response is to say "let's just wait for the report to come out and I'm sure it'll all be explained" for example - which one of you guys says every time the subject comes up.
You haven't answered any of my most question though -
Imagine it was a controlled demolition - just hypothetically - do you really think any government agency would report it was - REALLY?
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Alex_V
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Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 515
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Stefan wrote: | It's a statement of the bloody obvious - they had the collapse sequence pinned down years ago - the exact same sequence Danny Jowenko got after just looking at the collapse - all they have to do is show how the debris damage and fire caused it to happen.
Considering the whole South Side of the building was obscured and the inside of the building is unkown you'd think this would be a pretty easy thing to do - yet for some reason they've missed two deadlines and (according to reports) now contracted it out, or punted it. |
I think you completely misunderstand the point of NIST's reports. They do not exist to prove or disprove the official theory, but to inform future building design - ie to save lives. That is why I am much more defensive about the NIST reports, because having read one of them I cannot see how they are politically motivated or false. The 9/11 commission for example, may well have been largely politically motivated, and I am much more open to criticism of that report.
I think you also underestimate the potential difficulty of NIST's task. If they are working on only the same visual evidence available in the public domain, then their estimates of the fire and damage to the building will have to be pretty wide. I don't know if they have the same access to samples as they did for the twin towers - I doubt that they do.
The bottom line - if their job, as you suspect, is mere cover-up, the delay seems utterly pointless. The delay lends credibility to a lack of cover-up, because it suggests (in my opinion) that their modus operandi goes beyond cooking up lies.
| Quote: | | What new evidence could they have? The wreckage was cleared away before the FEMA report even got done. They have videos, they have photos, they have testimoney, and they have the building plans. The same things every one else has got. And everyone besides fanatical supporters of authority have called it - it's a controlled demolition. |
New evidence could presumably be controlled tests similar to the twin towers report if necessary, and real and computer-modelled simulations of the conditions that led to collapse. You cannot provide a scientific analysis of what happened by looking at videos and photos, although I know that is the method preferred by the truth movement.
| Quote: | You haven't answered any of my most question though -
Imagine it was a controlled demolition - just hypothetically - do you really think any government agency would report it was - REALLY? |
I doubt they would, agreed. But really you are affirming the consequent again - it's a logical fallacy, a statement with false internal logic. The mere fact that NIST settled on a proven collapse hypothesis is not evidence of a cover-up, because in the absence of a cover-up they would STILL settle on a proven collapse hypothesis. Your whole line of approach on that issue is faulty logic, and irrelevant.
But yet that seems to be the approach of the whole truth movement. In principle, if NIST prove collapse, their report is a cover-up. A nonsensical approach. |
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NorthernSoul
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 100
Location: Grimsby
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Stefan wrote: |
...Never mind the fact that the experts who say it was a controlled demolition have the exact same information
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These experts include?...
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NorthernSoul
Super Secret NWO Agent
Lt in charge of FEMA Death Camp Delta 2
Call 0800 310 310 to find out where there is an NWO recruitment center near you! Join Today. |
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pepik
Banned
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | the exact same sequence Danny Jowenko got after just looking at the collapse |
Right, so one guy looking at a YouTube video (and a guy who's opinion you accept only when he agrees with you).
Don't you have the integrity to admit this is pretty sad as far as evidence goes considering its the best truthers can do after so many years?
_________________
"could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section. |
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: |
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The NIST have explained why the report is late. They have also been forced to waste time doing addition testing just in case it was Aliens, thermite, nuclear weapons, thermobaric weapons etc.
If you want to complain about how late the report is fair enough but the truthers have had nearly 7 years to present evidence and then go to court and we have seen nothing. You are hardly setting the standard for punctuality are you? |
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A Sharp Major
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 237
Location: In the van with the blacked out windows, parked outside your home.
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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NIST has accepted 'papers' from Steven' not a professor' Jones and Richard 'donate-buy me lunch' Gage. The papers are a slow rambling read. I feel sorry for the NIST staff who have had to read and even consider them. Anyone else in the truth movement responded to NIST's invitation for public comment?
Any truthers going to respond to the WTC7 draft report like they didn't to the WTC1 and 2 draft reports? With science and engineering would be good.
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Micpsi
Moderate Poster
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Wibble wrote: | The NIST have explained why the report is late.
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But its explanation is unconvincing, that's the point. We all know the real reason for the delay: NIST did not have a clue how WTC7 could have fallen by natural means and could hardly admit the possibility of controlled demolition because it had already ruled that out in its earlier report. 
| Wibble wrote: |
They have also been forced to waste time doing addition testing just in case it was Aliens, thermite, nuclear weapons, thermobaric weapons etc.
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Well, of course you know that is untrue. I guess weak sarcasm is all you have got left to offer.
| Wibble wrote: |
If you want to complain about how late the report is fair enough but the truthers have had nearly 7 years to present evidence and then go to court and we have seen nothing. You are hardly setting the standard for punctuality are you? |
We have seen nothing because the courts and politicians block all attempts to prosecute those responsible for 9/11. So it is hardly a question of punctuality. Another bogus argument, Wibble. You really must try harder. |
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Alex_V
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Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 515
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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So the bogus arguments are wrong because... you disagree with them and have other accusations? Not a very convincing level of debate imo. |
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But its explanation is unconvincing, that's the point. |
Unconvincing it what way?
| Quote: | | Well, of course you know that is untrue. |
Why? Do think every time that NIST investigate a collapsed building that was seen live on TV they check for CD, thermite, missiles etc and have hundreds of wannabe experts asking all sorts of stupid questions??
| Quote: | | We have seen nothing because the courts and politicians block all attempts to prosecute those responsible for 9/11 |
Evidence? Or is it as usual you have none?
Last edited by Wibble on Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sam
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Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 343
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Micpsi wrote: |
We have seen nothing because the courts and politicians block all attempts to prosecute those responsible for 9/11. So it is hardly a question of punctuality. Another bogus argument, Wibble. You really must try harder. |
Could you list the attempts made by 9/11 Truthers "to prosecute those responsible for 9/11", and give us a very brief summary of their case(s) ??
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Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good. |
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Micpsi
Moderate Poster
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Alex_V wrote: |
So the bogus arguments are wrong because... you disagree with them and have other accusations? Not a very convincing level of debate imo. |
Nope. Typical straw man argument as weak as wet tissue paper set up to create the illusion that you scored a point of debate over me.
Not a very convincing level of debate imo. |
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pepik
Banned
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Who cares, this forum and the whole 911 truth movement has fizzled into nothing anyway.
Let them have their squibs and chemtrails and goblins or whatever the hell else they believe in.
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"could it be that ww2 and the extermination of jewish people was planned as a way of creating a race of people who it would be difficult to blame for anything, a cover race for the illuminati?" - a quote NOT from the 'controversial theories' section. |
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paul wright
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Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| pepik wrote: | Who cares, this forum and the whole 911 truth movement has fizzled into nothing anyway.
Let them have their squibs and chemtrails and goblins or whatever the hell else they believe in. |
If you believe this, then why dont you just go away?
You and your ilk just go away?
Your work here is done.
Let's see the back of you and Critics Corner which irritatingly makes it to the front page list.
It's irritating and you're welcome to screw yourselves and your loved ones if you wish.
You're becoming bores on the subject.
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| paul wright wrote: | | pepik wrote: | Who cares, this forum and the whole 911 truth movement has fizzled into nothing anyway.
Let them have their squibs and chemtrails and goblins or whatever the hell else they believe in. |
If you believe this, then why dont you just go away?
You and your ilk just go away?
Your work here is done.
Let's see the back of you and Critics Corner which irritatingly makes it to the front page list.
It's irritating and you're welcome to screw yourselves and your loved ones if you wish.
You're becoming bores on the subject. |
Even if we all went away it wont make your arguments/evidence any more true. If you truly believe in the Truth Movement then you need people to question your evidence and you need to be able to prove us wrong. Each time you can proof critics wrong your evidence will be stronger and your movement will gain credibility.
What you may have realised by no is that the Truth Movement is going round in circles. That is not the critics fault it is yours. If there is evidence of a conspiracy find it and present it. If not shut up and show some respect to the families and loved ones of those lost. |
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Micpsi
Moderate Poster
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| The 9/11 truth movement is going round and round in circles at present not because of lack of evidence - there's plenty of that - but because politicians who are privately persuaded by 9/11 being an inside job are too scared to take up the cause and speak out publicly about the mountain of anomalies and contradictions with the official story. They are too concerned about their careers and reputations being trashed by the gate keepers in the media. The same goes for many scientists. |
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SHERITON HOTEL
Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Obvious question but...why, oh why has not the 'strategically placed office contents 7 hour fires mechanism of controlled demolition (accompanied by tiny seismic readings non commensurate for those tonnages going to earth at those velocities) demonstrated with WTC7's almost perfect freefall symetrical collapse 5.23 pm 9/11/01 been developed commercially yet? |
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Micpsi wrote: | | The 9/11 truth movement is going round and round in circles at present not because of lack of evidence - there's plenty of that - but because politicians who are privately persuaded by 9/11 being an inside job are too scared to take up the cause and speak out publicly about the mountain of anomalies and contradictions with the official story. They are too concerned about their careers and reputations being trashed by the gate keepers in the media. The same goes for many scientists. |
There is nothing to stop the Truth movement from generating a legal case. How many scientists do you need? I thought you had loads? Plus architects, pilots and so on. If you have the support and the evidence you claim you can all donate £5 and hire some lawyers. |
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GodSaveTheTeam
Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 575
Location: the eyevolution
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Wibble wrote: | | If there is evidence of a conspiracy find it and present it. If not shut up and show some respect to the families and loved ones of those lost. |
It would seem that you may have missed the evidence against the official, unproven conspiracy-theory if you have not yet even grasped the fact that many family members question the validity of the whitewashed 9/11 commission.
If it wasn't for the family members there would not have even been a commission.
Like many promoting the OCT you use the tired old adage "you're disrespecting the family members.."
I'm afraid that simply will not do.
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sam
Wrecker
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 343
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| GodSaveTheTeam wrote: |
Like many promoting the OCT you use the tired old adage "you're disrespecting the family members.."
I'm afraid that simply will not do. |
I agree, and not merely tactically.
However, we are all disrespected by the utter failure - over these several years now - for the 9/11 'Truth' movement to propose a single plausible motive and/or narrative for the so-called CD of WTC7.
How? Why?
Not one answer that bears the tiniest scrutiny. Not one.
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Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good. |
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| GodSaveTheTeam wrote: |
It would seem that you may have missed the evidence against the official, unproven conspiracy-theory if you have not yet even grasped the fact that many family members question the validity of the whitewashed 9/11 commission.
I'm afraid that simply will not do. |
Numbers? Percentage? Documented legal cases? |
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SHERITON HOTEL
Moderate Poster
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | | Obvious question but...why, oh why has not the 'strategically placed office contents 7 hour fires mechanism of controlled demolition (accompanied by tiny seismic readings non commensurate for those tonnages going to earth at those velocities) demonstrated with WTC7's almost perfect freefall symetrical collapse 5.23 pm 9/11/01 been developed commercially yet? |
c'mon yous critics air your lungs! (trouble with 911 truth critics is they have no word for entrpreneur!) |
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