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9/11, 7/7, Covid-1984 & the War on Freedom Forum Index -> The War On Children, Marriage and the Family

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Alexander
Moderate Poster

Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 143

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject:

I didn't know anything about Marx's alleged "anti-semitism" until last week.

Here are a few Marxist quotes...

Quote:

Below you will find some of Karl Marx's references to Jews, quoted verbatim:

"It is the circumvention of law that makes the religious Jew a religious Jew." (Die Deutsche Ideologie, MEGA V, 162)

"The Jews of Poland are the smeariest of all races." (Neue Rheinische Zeitung, April 29, 1849)

He called Ferdinand Lassalle, "Judel Itzig-Jewish Nigger." (Der Judische Nigger, MEKOR III, 82, July 30, 1862)

"Ramsgate is full of Jews and fleas." (MEKOR IV, 490, August 25, 1879)

"Let us look at the real Jew of our time; not the Jew of the Sabbath, whom Bauer considers, but the Jew of everyday life.

"What is the Jew's foundation in our world? Material necessity, private advantage.

"What is the object of the Jew's worship in this world? Usury. What is his worldly god? Money.

"Very well then; emancipation from usury and money, that is, from practical, real Judaism, would constitute the emancipation of our time." ("A World Without Jews," p. 37)

"What was the essential foundation of the Jewish religion? Practical needs, egotism." (Ibid, p. 40)

"Money is the zealous one God of Israel, beside which no other God may stand. Money degrades all the gods of mankind and turns them into commodities. Money is the universal and self-constituted value set upon all things. It has therefore robbed the whole world, of both nature and man, of its original value. Money is the essence of man's life and work, which have become alienated from him. This alien monster rules him and he worships it.

"The God of the Jews has become secularized and is now a worldly God. The bill of exchange is the Jew's real God. His God is the illusory bill of exchange." ("A World Without Jews," p. 41)

I agree with WorldSocialism when they say -

Quote:

But opposition to Judaism is not necessarily the same as anti-Semitism.

Does anyone else?

http://www.worldsocialism.org/canada/marx.and.antisemitism.1960.v27n21 4.htm

isfahan
Validated Poster

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Karl Marx wrote a book called "A World Without Jews", don't you know?

Oh, up comes another creepy-crawly from underneath the boulder!

Now it's Karl Marx, the anti-semite! Marx opposed all religions as evil control systems. It's likely that he condemned the usurious character of Jewish culture and he might have condemned Jewish materialism. But he never hinted at a Final Solution which is what is really behind the rants of a lot of closet-Nazis who frequent these columns.

So someone writes to the Socialist Party of Canada with similar mischievous intentions as those found here. And you quote liberally his mischief. But you take care not to include the reply. So to save you the trouble I'll include it here in full:

Quote:

In the article mentioned above an effort was made to show Marx's purpose in writing his material on the Jewish question, emphasizing that Marx's interest was in emancipation for all mankind rather than for a section of mankind. That his treatment was not always gentle was not denied, but it was pointed out that Judaism was not singled out in this regard but that many of Marx's opponents (and some of his friends) had similarly felt the lash of his pen.

Marx lived and carried on his work barely half a century from the French revolution, at a time when Europe seethed in revolutionary ferment. His works were published under difficulty, sometimes interfered with by the authorities. He was exiled from his homeland. The greater part of his life was spent in poverty. He was subjected to a steady campaign of slander and misrepresentation. How many under similar conditions could have exercised the objectivity, patience and, clarity of thought that stand out so prominently in the great mass of his work?

Certainly not Runes. He lives, it is reasonable to assume, under conditions quite remote from the kind that harassed Marx. Yet, far from being able to use his favored circumstances to quietly examine, assess and discuss the mighty legacy of this nineteenth century thinker, he succeeds in finding nothing in Marx but a rabid, vicious, malevolent, debased and sick-minded Jew-baiter. Then, as an afterthought, he awards lumps to this writer for his bad manners in failing to be aware of the existence, stature and literary produce of Dagobert D. Runes!

Marx was opposed to Judaism. He was also opposed to Christianity and to religion, generally. To Marx religious organizations were preserved chiefly for their usefulness in helping to protect the dominant position of the ruling class. And he opposed all such agencies, both religious and nonreligious. But opposition to Judaism is not necessarily the same as anti-Semitism. To establish Marx as an anti-Semite it would obviously be necessary to point out the anti-Semitic activities he engaged in, the anti-Semitic organizations he sponsored or supported, the anti-Semitic works he wrote. It would be necessary, for example, to point to "The Communist Manifesto," "The Poverty of Philosophy," "The Critique of Political Economy," "Capital," to name only a few of his best-known works, and say these or some combination of these are proof of Marx's anti-Semitism. Runes doesn't do this. A very good reason why he doesn't is that he can't.

Then what does Runes do? He reproduces some of Marx's material on the Jewish question together with a few quotations or references. This material, embellished by Runes, provides the substance of his case. It will be noted in his letter that he ignores our previous comments. To these comments we add here a summary of Marx's treatment of the Jewish question written by Franz Mehring:

"What Marx achieved with this treatise was a twofold gain. He went to the very roots of the connection between society and the State. The State was not, as Hegel imagined, the reality of the moral idea, absolute reason and the absolute aim itself, and it had to content itself with the incomparably more modest task of presiding over the anarchy of bourgeois society which had enrolled it as watchman. This anarchy was the general struggle of man against man, of individual against individual, the universal war of all individuals, separated from each other only by their individuality, the general and unhindered movement of all the elementary forces released from their feudal fetters. It was actual slavery, although the individual seemed free and independent to himself, mistaking the unhindered movement of his alienated elements such as property, industry and religion for his own freedom, whereas in reality it represented his complete enslavement and alienation from humanity.

"And then Marx recognized that the religious questions of the day had no more than a social significance. He showed the development of Judaism not in religious theory, but in industrial and commercial practice which found a fantastic reflection in the Jewish religion. Practical Judaism is nothing but the fully-developed Christian world. As bourgeois society is of a completely commercial Jewish character the Jew necessarily belongs to it and can claim political emancipation just as he can claim the general rights of man. However, the emancipation of humanity is a new organization of the social forces, which will make man the master of those sources which give him life. Thus, in shadowy contours, we observe an outline of socialist society beginning to form." (Karl Marx," by Franz Mehring. Covici, Friede, New York, 1935, pages 100, 101.)

Since there is not unlimited space in which to deal with all the references to Jews attributed to Marx by Runes, let us consider then one that would appear to be the most unpleasant, Marx's description of Ferdinand Lassalle as a "Jewish nigger." It occurs in a letter by Marx to Engels. Marx is talking of his many financial difficulties. Then he writes:

"The Jewish nigger Lassalle, who fortunately leaves at the end of this week, has happily again lost 5,000 Thaler in a fraudulent speculation. The fellow would rather throw money in the dirt than make a loan to a 'friend' even if interest and capital are guaranteed. He acts on the view that he must live like a Jewish baron or baronised (probably via the Countess) Jew." (Letter dated July 30, 1862; Vol. 3, Marx-Engels Correspondence, German edition, page 82.)

That Marx was in a black mood when he wrote these words is obvious. That the mood was brought on by illness and concern over debts would be quite clear to anyone familiar with his life and works. That it is proof of anti-Semitism is ridiculous.

A sample of the manner in which Runes embellishes Marx is the following, taken from his book (pages vii, viii)

"The identification of Judaism with usury and exploitation of the masses, combined with an alleged secret master plan of the Jews with headquarters in Jerusalem to dominate the rest of the world, has been, and still is, the fundamental platform of political anti-Semitism."

No Marxist would quarrel with the first part of this quotation. But Runes combines it with something that can be found nowhere in the works of Marx. Anything can be proved in this way. The anti-Marxism of Runes, for example, could be combined with papal pronouncements to solidly establish Runes as a Roman Catholic!

And we have not here selected the weakest part of Rune's case. His case contains nothing greater. By attacking the villainies of Hitler, Stalin, Khrushchev, Nasser and other upholders of capitalism, he believes or pretends that he is attacking Marxism. That capitalism is a system inseparable from brutality, in which the Jews are seldom more than a small number of the victims, he shows no sign of awareness. Has he not heard of the Algerians, the Cypriots, the Negroes of various part of Africa and the United States, the Arabs of the Near East, and others whose trials are almost daily nectar to the newspapers ? And does he know nothing of the great mass of oppressed, starved and brutalized humanity overshadowing and cutting through all these groupings, including the Jews — the working class? Or would he try his hand at showing here the evil influence of Marx spreading beyond the persecution of the Jews? Or is he interested?

Another quotation from Rune's book follows (page viii):

"Today in Marxist Russia no Jewish magazine or newspaper may be published, no Jewish cultural center may function, no Jewish rituals may be publicly observed. No Jew may hold major public office or be a member of the Soviet parliament, and even harboring any expression of Zionist character is dealt with as a capital offense."

Without considering whether Runes is more dependable on Russia than he is on Marx, the inference will be noted in this quotation that the restraints which he says are now in effect have not always prevailed in modern Russia and that the Jews formerly had greater freedom. How can this changed situation be explained? There are some who would say that Russia was at one time Marxist but has drifted away from Marx. This explanation has the merit of being plausible. But it obviously does not fit the conception of Runes. How, then, does he explain it? He doesn't.

Runes supplements his efforts to discredit Marx by trying also to discredit Marx's translators and editors. He says, "It is interesting to note that most of Marx's anti-Semitic references, in his correspondences, his journalistic writings and his books, were entirely eliminated by his various editors." Why this should be so, since, according to Runes, they approved of his "anti-Semitism," he (as usual) does not try to explain. Nor does he try to prove his claim, except to say that his book contains "the first unexpurgated English language publication of Marx's answers to Bauer on the Jewish question — and this statement happens to be untrue.

Marx made two contributions to the Jewish question in the "German-French Yearbook" and three in "The Holy Family." The first two of these, but only one of the last three, are reproduced in Rune's book. All were previously available in English — "unexpurgated." The quotations from the "German-French Yearbook" used in our previous article were taken from the H. J. Stenning translation in "Selected Essays" of Karl Marx, published by Leonard Parsons, London, 1926. It remains to be added here that the version edited by Runes makes a completely unwarranted use of blackface [boldface] for emphasis.

Enough, we think, has been said to show that Rune's chief concern is to bury Marx beneath a thick coating of mud. His efforts should be comforting to the owning class.

International socialism can happily do without the nasty, conniving views you express here, Alexander.

Last edited by isfahan on Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

Alexander
Moderate Poster

Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 143

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject:

Isn't the "Nazi" name-calling getting a bit tired?

Alexander
Moderate Poster

Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 143

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject:

Quote:

International socialism can happily do without the nasty, conniving views you express here, Alexander

I was just passing on some info I found interesting and had never been aware of. Don't think I was being "nasty" or "conniving" but you're entitled to your opinion.

I did quote from the reply - to agree with it.

isfahan
Validated Poster

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Isn't the "Nazi" name-calling getting a bit tired?

Isn't the obsessive anti-Judaism that you promote with slanderous articles like this getting a bit moth-eaten?

Just answer me one question: what is your answer to the 'problem' with Judaism that your perceive? Just tell me that.

Quote:

I was just passing on some info I found interesting and had never been aware of. Don't think I was being "nasty" or "conniving" but you're entitled to your opinion.

You quoted tiny bits that suited you and left out the bulk which didn't.

And, BTW, you didn't even read the SPC article properly. It wasn't Marx who wrote a booklet called 'A World without Jews', it was the Hitler-loving Dagobert Runes. Hoist by your own petard, dear Alexander!

Alexander said:

Quote:

Karl Marx wrote a book called "A World Without Jews", don't you know?

http://vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/5/1/Whisker69-76.html

In the SPC article the ghastly Dagobert Runes writes:

Quote:

I published the booklet "A World Without Jews" for only one reason — namely, to drive a wedge between some gullible Jewish people and the various Marxist denominations. I intended to open the eyes of my people to the little known fact that Marx was a rabid anti-Semite; and that for this, if for no other reason, they should shun Marxism in all its implications.

Better luck next time! Smile

Last edited by isfahan on Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:44 pm; edited 2 times in total

chek
Mega Poster

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject:

Alexander wrote:

When are Mark Gobell, Karlos, Brian going to be allowed to post again btw?

Perhaps whenever the world collectively pines for their presence once again.
Don't hold your breath.
Although why you'd advocate their returning to a forum where their standing is slightly below that of rabid slug beats me.
_________________
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.

It's them or us.

blackbear
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 656
Location: up north

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject:

Friday 11th July.......... A night in with our Zionazi posters. hello chek....be interested in what you think of the following site: http://www.hurryupharry.org/ I believe a moderator at truthaction...posts there.!

kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject:

isfahan wrote:

But he never hinted at a Final Solution which is what is really behind the rants of a lot of closet-Nazis who frequent these columns.

You absolute effing A*sehole.

Alexander
Moderate Poster

Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 143

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject:

Quote:

And, BTW, you didn't even read the SPC article properly. It wasn't Marx who wrote a booklet called 'A World without Jews', it was the Hitler-loving Dagobert Runes. Hoist by your own petard, dear Alexander!

Runes wrote the introduction to the book but the contents were written by Karl Marx. See here...
http://www.hollanderbooks.com/cgi-bin/hollander/17951

As for Dagobert Runes being "Hitler-loving" You are much mistaken.
He was a close friend of Albert Einstein according to Wikipedia and seemed to think Hitlerism was rooted in the Christian Church...

Quote:

"The isolation of Jews into ghetto camps, the wearing of the yellow spot, the burning of Jewish books, and finally the burning of the people--- Hitler learned it all from the Church. However, the Church burned Jewish women and children alive, while Hitler granted them a quicker death, choking them first with gas." "The clergymen don't tell you whom to kill; they just tell you whom to hate." (Dr. Dagobert Runes, Historian, child of a Holocaust victim.)

http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/hitlrxt.htm

chek
Mega Poster

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject:

blackbear wrote:

Friday 11th July..........

A night in with our Zionazi posters.

hello chek....be interested in what you think of the following site:

http://www.hurryupharry.org/

I believe a moderator at truthaction...posts there.!

Apologies BB, but while it may only be Friday 11th July to you, over here it's bonfire night when the extinguishing of the last gasp of Catholic power in the UK is celebrated.

Not that I go in for such superstitious nonsense, but I take the view that if there had been no Reformation, there'd have been no Enlightenment, which makes it worth celebrating. Plus there's always a party and a drink to be had.

Further, since my days of exchanging views with the no planes fraternity (whom I refer to as The First Wave), I realise that life is too short to spend wasted on unsolicited sites and videos, so if you're incapable of summarising why it should be of interest - forget it.

Sláinte!
_________________
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.

It's them or us.

kbo234
Validated Poster

Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:57 pm Post subject:

Dogsmilk wrote:

Tips for quoting Jews
The most important point to remember is that if Jew can be quoted as saying a bad thing, this constitutes evidence about the Jews. Whether the quote is real, the context in which it was made and the obscurity or otherwise of the quote is totally irrelevant. If you can find enough quotes of Jews saying bad things, it means that Jews are evil. If anyone points out that a given quote is a mis-quote, totally out of context, simply made up or whatever, this must be ignored and the next Jew saying a bad thing quote posted instead. Try to keep posting them in the hope that a passing moron reading the thread will think "Hang on - there's a Jew saying a bad thing - they're obviously all evil!"

On the other hand, if you find quotes - preferably from famous people - saying bad things about Jews - like they're "parasites" or whatever, this quote is inevitably true and an accurate statement about what Jews are like. It in no way reflects any conceivable prejudice on the part of the person making the quote. Furthermore, although politicians are never to be believed, if they are saying bad things about Jews, this means they are automatically correct and the fact they are a politician proves it. You may recognise famous and powerful people have prejudices just like everyone else, but mnever prejudice against Jews as it is all true. So this time your passing moron will think "Hang on - there's a famous person saying a bad thing about Jews - they're obviously all evil!"

If you find a quote from a Christian, Muslim or any other religion saying bad things, this does not reflect what these people are like. This can only possibly be the case if they are from Jews. Similarly, if you find prominent people have said negative things about 'Mohammedans' or the like, these are not to be taken at face value. This only occurs in the case of Jews. Remember - the last thing you want is your passing moron to start thinking "Hang on - there's a Muslim saying a bad thing - they're obviously all evil". There are enough of those already, but you want to make sure you recognise the flawed nature of this logic while ensuring maximum doublethink regarding Jews.

If you follow these simple steps, you will be well on the way to achieving your NVQ in jellybrained Jew obsessing.

kbo -

Quote:

I don't expect Dogsmilk to respond to my previous post.

Sorry to disappoint. Now maybe you will actually respond to some of mine.

You haven't disappointed. The Cr*p above is no kind of response to the post in question.

There is nothing about 'Jews' in the Russo interview. Nothing.

As has long been clear you are not in the least interested in debating 9/11. This is just another exercise in messy misdirection.

I believe that you know quite well that 9/11 was an 'inside job' but you don't like the idea of people following up in search of the truth about the conspiracy and conspirators who made it happen.

You oppose 9/11 Truth but you do not deny 9/11 Truth.

A highly evolved if utterly dishonest strategy for undermining the efforts of genuine activists and truth-seekers on this site. By ignoring 9/11 issues themselves you are safe to post your dishonest smearing rubbish to your heart's content.

I do not have the time or energy to continue these stupid and pretty meaningless exchanges.

Dogsmilk wrote:

If I twisted or misrepresented, then I apologise and seek further clarification regarding your position.

yeah right, of course you do.

Dogsmilk wrote:

Or am I being misleading because influence only counts if it comes from communists and Jews? Who are, by definition, out to rule us all!

There you go again. Attacking your own worst nightmares, then blaming people like me for these things that we never said.

Dogsmilk wrote:

Quote:

Admit that if 9/11 WAS an inside job then there IS a very high level evil conspiracy at work amongst us.

Yeah - it's called government.

No it is not.
There is no name for these people. What we are doing on this forum is trying to describe and name these people, through evidence and some educated guesswork.

What is 'called' government is the people we elect.

Dogsmilk wrote:

IMHO it's government and corporate power that need to be opposed, not some hypothetical rogue cabal.

The conspiracy that carried out 9/11 is not hypothetical and is much more than a mere 'cabal'.

It is impossible to oppose government and corporate power effectively....this is Chomsky's line and government and corporate power are entirely safe from people like this. IMO Chomsky is in the business of protecting these agencies….after all he is funded by them. If he was working against their interests or in any way threatening to them do you really think they would continue to fund him.

The only possibly effective way to oppose these organisations is to educate the public about the way that power is secretly exercised from behind the scenes, educate them about the calamity that is the usurious banking system that we allow to dominate us. Also, crucially to expose spiritual nature of these criminals......who define moral good as being what is good for them.

Again, Christ condemned this Talmudic/Pharisaical approach to truth and morality. Any Christian is justified in repeating this condemnation. If the UK had not walked away from its Christian traditions people at large would agree that what I have been saying was simple common sense. This judgement holds equally true for the Luciferian (or anti-Christ) religion that is Freemasonry. The spiritual heart of the matter is that we allow people of these persuasions to hold control over us.

We should not allow it.

This is a matter of moral principle, not a matter of hating Jews or hating gentile corporatists.

I want this kind of power and these kind of people to be removed from positions of influence. I want to see the pyramid inverted so that it is not possible for highly placed individuals to exercise control over anybody. We need an entirely new paradigm and, with the help of Christ we will surely get it.

This is not to say that people who call themselves Christians are good....but clearly defining the guiding principles of our moral universe would be a very good start if it comes to correcting the wild wickednesses that we, via our dopey and fraudulent democracy, theoretically endorse.

Dogsmilk wrote:

I think the idea of microchips is eminently sensible from a corporate point of view. I would be surprised if it weren't seriously planned to get rid of cash as it is a nuisance from a certain perspective.

You really are ready to trust these people, aren't you?

Dogsmilk wrote:

However, some of the things Russo says don't make sense. There is no reason why any 'one world government' can't theoretically just access your bank account and withdraw money anyway – you don't need a chip to do that and it's highly unlikely your data wouldn't be held on a central computer anyway which updates with each transaction – it's not like your bank account would just be in' your RFID chip is it? And this 'turn your chip off' stuff just sounds dumb.

So I think it's perfectly possible Rockerfeller told him some things, but IMHO Russo was either being wound up or is embellishing the content to some extent. It would be better if he'd said these things before 911 because I doubt him but don't discount him based on some of the things he says.
Who knows.

Yeah, who knows?

It's all a real mystery isn't it?

Don't try and wind me up in your web of deceit Dogsmilk. I won't be answering your dishonest questions. I'll continue to say what I think based primarily on the provable fact that 9/11 was an inside job.

isfahan
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject:

Quote:

You absolute effing A*sehole.

Ha, ha! They hate it when they're found out!

isfahan
Validated Poster

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Runes wrote the introduction to the book but the contents were written by Karl Marx.

That's not what you wrote. You attributed Runes' book to Marx. In case you need reminding this is what you wrote:

Quote:

Karl Marx wrote a book called "A World Without Jews", don't you know?

http://vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/5/1/Whisker69-76.html

Would you now like to apologise for the slander?

Quote:

As for Dagobert Runes being "Hitler-loving" You are much mistaken.

Oh yeah, then why did he refer to Hitler's views as "profound"?

Quote:

If you have the courage to let your readers read what I am writing now, let them judge how little or how much difference there is between the profundity of Adolph Hitler and the debasement of Karl Marx.

The "profundity of Adolph [Adolf actually] Hitler and the debasement of Karl Marx?". I have thought many things about Hitler's trashy writing but 'profundity' was never one of them. Runes, however, finds Hitler's views profound. Sounds like a fan of Hitler to me.

Quote:

and seemed to think Hitlerism was rooted in the Christian Church...

That, anyway, makes sense to me. History will prove that the first anti-semites were the Christians. Ironically, Hitler claimed to be a good Christian! No comment.

Last edited by isfahan on Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:19 pm; edited 3 times in total

kbo234
Validated Poster

Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject:

isfahan wrote:

Quote:

You absolute effing A*sehole.

Ha, ha! They hate it when they're found out!

My God. There is no word for the kind of fool you are.

isfahan
Validated Poster

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject:

Quote:

My God. There is no word for the kind of fool you are.

You are a Nazi, Kbo whatever, and I am astounded that you are given the freedom to broadcast your poison on this forum. Tony, what do you say?

blackbear
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 656
Location: up north

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject:

hello istahan "why did he refer to Hitler's views as "profound"...... profound............hate cime...

Alexander
Moderate Poster

Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 143

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject:

You might have missed that Dagobert Runes was a "child of a Holocaust victim" in the previous quote, Isfahan. Sad

Quote:

Dr Dagobert Runes, revered peer of Albert Einstein and renowned Jewish scholar, said in 1968, that “the wearing of the yellow spot, the burning of Jewish books, and finally the burning of the people...” was learned and practiced well before Hitler. Prior to Nazism, he claimed, Jews were burned alive. At least, he said, Hitler gassed his victims before he burned them.

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=96AE1D0B-F902-4B1F-885 2-7975BE06247E

kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject:

Isfahan..... Yes. I'm a Nazi..... .......and you are intelligent, a master of discernment and an extraordinarily honest and noble man. C'mon say it again ..."anti-semite"...."Nazi"......"anti-semite"......"Nazi"....... .........with your level of insight and talent for name-calling you could well end up with a job at somewhere like Fox News (that's a very fair, moderate, reasonable and Christian broadcaster, in case you didn't know).

isfahan
Validated Poster

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:29 am Post subject:

Quote:

profound............hate cime...

No, that's clearly not what he said. He described Hitler's work as profound and Marx's work as debased.

Quote:

That's what he wrote. It's there for all to see. He contrasted Hitler's 'profundity' to what he called "the debasement of Karl Marx." He didn't talk about hate crimes but about the profundity of one and the debasement of the other.

Ok, so let's suppose he was contrasting the profundity of Hitler's anti-semitism to a more debased form that Marx expressed. He was comparing two forms of anti-semitism.

Runes was clearly trying to discredit Marx. That wasn't Alexander's intention I think. I think he was trying to use Marx's statements to prove to us that even Marx could see an international Jewish conspiracy.

Because that is what you are all trying to establish here.

So Alexander chose to use the passage from the Socialist Party which suited him, ie to make out that Marx was an anti-semite. He conveniently left out the lengthy refutation that followed although quoting from it, again for his convenience.

He also falsely attributed Runes' book to Marx.

These dishonesties, lies and falsehoods are sickening. I don't know quite what your motives are but I am utterly revolted by what you are doing here. All it does is to give this forum and the 911 Truth movement a bad reputation and for that you are to be disowned.

Quote:

No doubt he is quite right. Anti-semitism didn't start with the Nazis. The Nazis used it as a political tool to make scape-goats out of the Jews. The same political tool that you people are using here. That's why I equate you with the Nazis.

Did you miss my comment above? Here it is again:

Quote:

History will prove that the first anti-semites were the Christians. Ironically, Hitler claimed to be a good Christian! No comment.

Kbo writes,

Quote:

and you are intelligent, a master of discernment and an extraordinarily honest and noble man.

I never pretended to be any of these things. But I can tell when somethink stinks to high heaven. And the Jew-baiting that's going on here stinks.

Alexander
Moderate Poster

Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 143

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:22 am Post subject:

Isfahan wrote...

Quote:

Runes was clearly trying to discredit Marx. That wasn't Alexander's intention I think. I think he was trying to use Marx's statements to prove to us that even Marx could see an international Jewish conspiracy.

Because that is what you are all trying to establish here.

So Alexander chose to use the passage from the Socialist Party which suited him, ie to make out that Marx was an anti-semite. He conveniently left out the lengthy refutation that followed although quoting from it, again for his convenience.

He also falsely attributed Runes' book to Marx.

These dishonesties, lies and falsehoods are sickening. I don't know quite what your motives are but I am utterly revolted by what you are doing here. All it does is to give this forum and the 911 Truth movement a bad reputation and for that you are to be disowned.

You are getting into an awful lather, old bean.

My "intention" was simply to pass on information I found interesting and thought others would too.

Quote:

He also falsely attributed Runes' book to Marx.

You have abandoned your contention that Runes was "Hitler-loving" apparently but still maintain that Runes wrote the book published under the title A World Without Jews. You can read the book online, Isfahan. The book has a 6 page intro from Dr Runes and a fifty-odd page collection of Marx's writings "On the Jewish Question".

Runes wrote 1/8th of the contents of the book. The rest was from the pen of Karl Marx.

kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:39 am Post subject:

isfahan wrote:

Quote:

and you are intelligent, a master of discernment and an extraordinarily honest and noble man.

I never pretended to be any of these things.

Just as well.

isfahan wrote:

But I can tell when somethink stinks to high heaven. And the Jew-baiting that's going on here stinks.

I do not want the fate of myself and my children decided by people who regards us as cattle (and say so). This is the view (overtly) of Talmudists and Freemasons (as demonstrated by their rituals).

Would they regard you as 'cattle' Isfahan.

If they did would you be happy with that?

I would do no harm to such people Isfahan (although I'm sure they would happily do plenty of harm to me). I would, however, remove them from any position of influence over us......had I the power to do so.

I don't know what you are doing on this forum if you do not believe that we are being very seriously misruled. You really should try and work out what is going wrong out there.
Wicked and erroneous actions derive from wicked and erroneous thinking.

If some of us recognise such thinking going on in the groups around us, you ought not to rush to hysterical conclusions that the individual making the comment is motivated by anything other than a desire to know the truth and understand it.

As I said before, Christ condemned the prototypical creators of Talmudic Judaism for their approach to moral and spiritual questions. These people had him murdered for saying these things. They could not have been more anti-Christ.

Do you think Christ would be a typical Nazi were he around today? Would he be itching to sling 'the Jews' into the gas ovens?

Just trying to test out your thinking here Isfahan.

You have said these things about me. In what way is what I am saying different from what Christ has said before me? (he wouldn't have used asterisked expletives, granted)

If I ever see Christ in the heavenly realms will he be stomping about in Lederhosen?

isfahan
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Your contrived explanation shows readers just what a dishonest person you are and how you seek to twist everything to suit your perverted views.

Marx did not write that book. If someone collects some of your statements from this thread and publishes them entitled Alexander's War against Jews would you accept it as your book? I doubt it. So admit that you misinformed us when you attributed Runes' book to Marx.

isfahan
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:45 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Just trying to test out your thinking here Isfahan.

I have no problem with your views about Talmudism about which I have read a trenchant critique, The Weight of 3000 Years, by the late Professor Israel Shahak (himself a Jew) on precisely the things you mention from the Talmud. Shahak was also a declared enemy of Zionism.

Why, for example, don't we discuss his book?

I do not disagree with Shahak's conclusions. The teachings from the Talmud which he attacks are indeed tantamount to religious apartheid and, it appears, where the elitist attitudes of modern-day Zionists comes from which equate the life of one Jew with a thousand Palestinians. It is totally abhorrent and its origins should be exposed and condemned.

I repeat: I have no problem with that & would support you in your attempts to expose and condemn such. Similarly, Zionist influences in the US and UK government should be exposed and condemned. I would support you there as well.

In fact, I believe that the Jewish Synod should be pressured to review the Talmud and to excise those statements which seek to elevate the life of a Jew above others.

Where I would never support you or anyone else is in the making of a blanket condemnation of Jews as conducting an international conspiracy. Similarly I would challenge anyone who brings up the elusive Illuminati as doing so!

Quote:

I don't know what you are doing on this forum if you do not believe that we are being very seriously misruled. You really should try and work out what is going wrong out there.

Personally, I would rather a Forum such as this have very strict parameters regarding discussion. It should restrict itself to the immediate circumstances surrounding false-flag incidents such as 911, 77, Madrid, Bali &c and not go into endless speculation about groups such as the elusive Illuminati, Reptoids and international Jewish Conspiracies all of which invite ridicule --and rightly so.

Last edited by isfahan on Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject:

isfahan wrote:

Your contrived explanation shows readers just what a dishonest person you are and how you seek to twist everything to suit your perverted views.

EVEN FROM WHAT YOU SAY YOURSELF (and I know nothing about this book) it is clear that

Marx wrote this book....

....and Runes edited it.

Blimey, Isfahan, you call Alexander dishonest and perverted then you affirm with your own words that what he said was true.

Will you stop the name-calling and get back to engaging in sensible argument about issues. It might help if you used a dictionary occasionally to check the meaning of the words you are using.

(here are some more hints)....'Nazi' and 'Final Solution' are very ugly words. Please use carefully.

isfahan
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject:

Quote:

EVEN FROM WHAT YOU SAY YOURSELF (and I know nothing about this book) it is clear that

Marx wrote this book....

....and Runes edited it.

B@llocks! What an ignorant comment! It exposes your absolute ignorance regarding Marx, the time he lived in and a more contemporary writer, the ghastly Dagobert D. Runes.

Alexander should now have the decency to admit his mistake. He won't of course. He's too wrapped-up in his ego to admit when he's wrong.

kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject:

isfahan wrote:

If someone collects some of your statements from this thread and publishes them entitled Alexander's War against Jews would you accept it as your book? I doubt it. So admit that you misinformed us when you attributed Runes' book to Marx.

If you collected Alexander's statements it does not matter what you called them, they remain his statements, they do not become your statements just because you collected them.

If quotes are taken unfairly and out of context you can claim that the editing was unfair and designed to unfairly discredit the author. That is the most you can claim.

isfahan
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject:

Quote:

If you collected Alexander's statements it does not matter what you called them, they remain his statements, they do not become your statements just because you collected them.

Rubbish! If I did that and claimed it was his book he would have the right to take me to court and sue me for misrepresentation.

They might be his statements but it would be my book. Can't you, won't you, understand the difference? Similarly, in this case, they may be Marx's statements but it is Rune's book ... not Marx's as alleged.

The author of a book is the one who produces the book, even if he quotes liberally from others. And your suggestion that Marx wrote this book and that Runes edited it shows your ignorance of the chronological difference between Marx's lifetime and that of Runes! Pathetic!

C'mon Alexander, admit your error and apologise! Twisted Evil

kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject:

isfahan wrote:

Where I would never support you or anyone else is in the making of a blanket condemnation of Jews as conducting an international conspiracy. Similarly I would challenge anyone who brings up the elusive Illuminati as doing so!

I don't make a blanket condemnation of Jews. I say that:

1. There are international conspiracies that threaten our well-being and our very lives.

2. The drive to 'Globalism' is more-or-less the whole conspiracy. There are many sub-parts to this conspiracy including 9/11, false flag terror, right down to manipulation of the education system, immigration policies etc..

3. The engine for this globalist conspiracy is usury and the international banking system.

4. Whoever is at the top of the pyramid of power.....i.e. who ever is directing the ongoing nightmare, it is clear that Freemasons and Zionist/Talmudic Jews dominate our system.

5. It is also clear that in proportion to their numbers Jews are massively over-represented amongst the ruling elite.

6. Ordinary Jews, like ordinary gentiles are being misled and betrayed by their leadership.

7. It is very important that we connect the dots and expose the inner working of power and its diabolical nature to our fellow citizens......so that there is some chance of changing this sorry state of affairs.

If you object to this dot-connecting, references to international conspiracies etc then in my opinion you are just not paying attention and we'll just have to disagree about this.

Quote:

.....as above.

kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject:

isfahan wrote:

Quote:

If you collected Alexander's statements it does not matter what you called them, they remain his statements, they do not become your statements just because you collected them.

This is puzzling.

I thought you were getting heated because Alexander said Marx wrote the book? Now it's 'produced the book','made the book', 'owned the book'....What about 'bought the book'?

At least we can agree the said publication will remain 'a book'.

Enough already. I'll leave Alexander to reply for himself.

isfahan
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I thought you were getting heated because Alexander said Marx wrote the book? Now it's 'produced the book','made the book', 'owned the book'....What about 'bought the book'?

So childish, trying to twist my words. You have both shown yourselves to be dishonest and ignorant of history. I do not propose to waste any further time dealing with the kind of ill-informed tawdriness that gives the Internet a bad reputation for being a place of illiterate and half-baked theories, racists, closet-Nazis and cranks.

You can consider my refusal to continue this exchange as a hollow victory. By doing so you will be doing nothing more than massaging your own egos. Other readers who follow the thread will see how you both have discredited yourselves with your contortions, your lies and your abuse.

Carry on doing your worst, the only thing to suffer will be the reputation of this Forum.

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