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simplesimon
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Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 249
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 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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isfahan wrote:
| Quote: | | After all the unbelievable BS from people like the obsessive Rodin (no longer here, well done Tony for banning him) and his fellow-travellers it's good to read someone talking sense about Marx and the true origins of communism. |
"Unbelievable"
- I respectfully suggest that what you are saying here, in your own words, is that you are not able to believe it. It is a comment on your own limited imagination, and says nothing about anything Rodin posted here.
"BS"
- you think so - he doesn't. Just calling it BS isn't a rational, or respectful challenge to his ideas.
"Obsessive"
- I can't speak for Rodin, but suppose he would say that he posts about what he thinks are the important issues.
"no longer here, well done Tony for banning him"
- Rodin can't defend himself - he's now an "unperson" on this forum.
There is only one reason people are censored - those with the power to do so are AFRAID of certain IDEAS.
| Quote: | | Personally, I would rather a Forum such as this have very strict parameters regarding discussion. It should restrict itself to the immediate circumstances surrounding false-flag incidents such as 911, 77, Madrid, Bali &c and not go into endless speculation about groups such as the elusive Illuminati, Reptoids and international Jewish Conspiracies all of which invite ridicule --and rightly so. |
which means:
"Personally, I would rather a Forum such as this strictly enforce what I have decided is permissible THOUGHT. It should restrict members THOUGHTS to a tightly focused area and prevent them from trying to see how it may relate to other, far more important matters. Most people are sufficiently mind controlled to distrust and even fear individuals who try to think for themselves, a fact which I wave about here in order to make you afraid to do so".
Just who do you think you are, telling others what they can think and say here?
_________________
If you want to know who is really in control, ask yourself who you cannot criticise.
"The hunt for 'anti-semites' is a hunt for pockets of resistance to the NWO"-- Israel Shamir
"What we in America call terrorists are really groups of people that reject the international system..." - Heinz "Henry" Kissinger |
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Alexander
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Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 143
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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I can't be bothered even reading much more of Isfahan's nonsense.
You can buy A World Without Jews from Amazon.com and it says it is by Karl Marx. Good enough for me but not for you Isfahan. Maybe you should contact Jeff Bezos about it.
http://www.amazon.com/World-Without-Jews-Karl-Marx/dp/0806529539
You can read Marx's view "on the jewish question" ...the translation looks very similar to that of Runes' version....here...
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/
Runes obviously supplied an introduction and title. He was the editor and publisher of the book and had his own agenda no doubt.
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kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Isfahan wrote: | It wasn't Marx who wrote a booklet called 'A World without Jews', it was the Hitler-loving Dagobert Runes.
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Did you or did you not say this?
I cannot help but notice your use of the word "wrote".
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isfahan
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: Marx On the Jewish Question |
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For the information of our other readers --not the half-wit Jew-baiters with whom I refuse to discuss anything further-- the truth is that Karl Marx never wrote or published a book entitled A World without Jews. Dagobert Runes did.
Runes' book as advertised on Amazon
See Wikipedia, for example:
| Quote: | Dagobert David Runes (b. 1902) was a philosopher and author. He is associated with The Philosophical Library, a spiritual organization and publisher. Runes was a colleague and friend of Albert Einstein.
Runes is responsible for publishing an English translation of Marx's On the Jewish Question, which he published under the title A World without Jews.
In 1942 Runes edited a philosophical dictionary. The Library of Congress holds 66 titles under his name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagobert_D._Runes |
The book that Marx wrote was entitled On the Jewish Question. He would never use an inflammatory title as Runes did. Runes admitted purpose was to discredit Marx.
This is what he wrote in his letter to the Socialist Party:
This is a more reliable view on Marx's On the Jewish Question:
| Quote: |
Was Marx an anti-Semite?
"World Without Jews" is not a call for the extermination of Jews, as the title might imply, but rather Marx's analysis of why most Jews were not interested in the working class movement of his day. He wanted Jews to cease identifying themselves as Jews first and foremost and instead adopt a more universalist outlook, which would aid their participation in the workers' movement. Marx saw Judaism, the religion, as a barrier to developing class consciousness, so he saw a "world without Jews" as the only way the European working classes would be able to unite. It is important to keep in mind that the translators of this work into English have largely been of the "Jews Against Communism" variety, and so the anti-Judaic tone of the work is not necessarily due to Marx alone. The fact that Jews are taught to identify themselves as a race, instead of merely as co-religionists, was what Marx was decrying in this pamphlet, not the fact that there are Jews at all. Marx's contempt for religion in general is well known, and as a Jew by birth (although his family converted to Christianity) he had an insider's perspective on the problems that identifying oneself as a Jew presented to the working class movement at the time that he wanted to share with non-Jews.
The language might seem excessively harsh to us today, but the book was a polemic, and must be viewed within its historical context.
http://www.marxmail.org/faq/antisemitism.htm |
How much more evidence is required to prove that Marx never wrote the book that these idiots claim he did? What happened was that Runes took Marx's pamphlet, On the Jewish Question, and enlarged it into a book with the deliberate intention of distorting and discrediting Marx for the purpose he admitted in the quote above.
Amazon is mistaken to claim that Marx wrote a book called A World without Jews. I can only imagine they advertise it by him for legal reasons. Anyway they should be challenged on this. The book published is a distorted, anti-Marxist piece of propaganda written and published by Dagobert Runes.
Here are the first paragraphs of Marx's On the Jewish Question. The full text is downloadable below in HTML form:
| Quote: | Works of Karl Marx 1844, On The Jewish Question
Written: Autumn 1843;
First Published: February, 1844 in Deutsch-Französische Jahrbücher;
Proofed and Corrected: by Andy Blunden and Matthew Grant, June 2008.
Bruno Bauer, The Jewish Question, Braunschweig, 1843
The German Jews desire emancipation. What kind of emancipation do they desire? Civic, political emancipation.
Bruno Bauer replies to them: No one in Germany is politically emancipated. We ourselves are not free. How are we to free you? You Jews are egoists if you demand a special emancipation for yourselves as Jews. As Germans, you ought to work for the political emancipation of Germany, and as human beings, for the emancipation of mankind, and you should feel the particular kind of your oppression and your shame not as an exception to the rule, but on the contrary as a confirmation of the rule ...
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/ |
The case rests.
| Description: |
| Pamphlet by Karl Marx On the Jewish Question. |
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blackbear
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Posts: 656
Location: up north
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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hello isfahan......maybe of interest....
Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews Condemn Zionist Pogroms in West Bank and Strangulation of Gaza
NETUREI KARTA of THE ORTHODOX JEWRY - JERUSALEM, PALESTINE
Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews worldwide condemn the savage pogroms unleashed against the Palestinian people in the West Bank by the Zionist terrorist gang known as the "IDF."
The Zionist terrorists are currently on a rampage throughout the West Bank to terrorize Palestinian civil society as they strengthen their hold on the prison known as Gaza.
We implore the world community not to stand idly by and allow the Palestinian people to be terrorized and sacrificed solely in order to make life comfortable for the Zionist regime. Where are the peacekeeping troops? Where are the UN declarations? Where are the world summits of the major powers? Where are the declarations and condemnations? Where are the arms boycotts against the Zionists?
What is the reason for the constant silence in the face of the Zionist miscreants? Is it intimidation and threats to use the term "anti-Semite" against any person or government who dares to criticize their brutality?!
HOW LONG WILL THIS ENDURE? HOW LONG WILL THE ZIONIST REGIME HAVE A FREE HAND AND A BLANK CHECK TO TERRORIZE AND HUMILIATE THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE?
We also condemn the silence of Jewish leaders and rabbis who call themselves Orthodox and who have either been bribed or intimidated by the Zionists.
How long shall you remain silent at the total desecration of the name of God and our holy Torah by the vicious Zionist heretics? You are silent and the word "Jew" is seen among the nations to mean murderer and terrorist!
No person remaining silent shall escape the Day of Judgment because everything is recorded in Heaven!! If you believe in the Torah and follow our Sages then you must not ignore the state-sponsored terrorism committed by the heretical Zionist regime in violation of all international laws and the entire Torah!! We pray for the immediate dismantlement of the rogue Zionist regime and for the immediate restoration of the inherent rights of the Palestinians throughout historic Palestine!
Rabbi Meir Hirsh
Neturei Karta
Jerusalem, Palestine...
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m45645&hd=&size=1&l=e
Thank You....
Time to stop paddling in denile...
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Alexander
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Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 143
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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What a silly argument. Here are some Marxist quotes from A World Without Jews/On the Jewish Question by Karl Marx. These were written by Karl Marx NOT Dagobert Runes...
| Quote: | Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew – not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew.
Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew.
What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money.
Very well then! Emancipation from huckstering and money, consequently from practical, real Judaism, would be the self-emancipation of our time.
An organization of society which would abolish the preconditions for huckstering, and therefore the possibility of huckstering, would make the Jew impossible.
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| Quote: | The Jew has emancipated himself in a Jewish manner, not only because he has acquired financial power, but also because, through him and also apart from him, money has become a world power and the practical Jewish spirit has become the practical spirit of the Christian nations. The Jews have emancipated themselves insofar as the Christians have become Jews.
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| Quote: | Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man – and turns them into commodities. Money is the universal self-established value of all things. It has, therefore, robbed the whole world – both the world of men and nature – of its specific value. Money is the estranged essence of man’s work and man’s existence, and this alien essence dominates him, and he worships it.
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| Quote: | What, in itself, was the basis of the Jewish religion? Practical need, egoism.
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| Quote: | The god of the Jews has become secularized and has become the god of the world. The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange.
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| Quote: | Contempt for theory, art, history, and for man as an end in himself, which is contained in an abstract form in the Jewish religion, is the real, conscious standpoint, the virtue of the man of money. The species-relation itself, the relation between man and woman, etc., becomes an object of trade! The woman is bought and sold.
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| Quote: | The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general.
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| Quote: | The groundless law of the Jew is only a religious caricature of groundless morality and right in general, of the purely formal rites with which the world of self-interest surrounds itself.
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| Quote: | Jewish Jesuitism, the same practical Jesuitism which Bauer discovers in the Talmud, is the relation of the world of self-interest to the laws governing that world, the chief art of which consists in the cunning circumvention of these laws.
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| Quote: | Only then could Judaism achieve universal dominance and make alienated man and alienated nature into alienable, vendible objects subjected to the slavery of egoistic need and to trading.
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| Quote: | The social emancipation of the Jew is the emancipation of society from Judaism.
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You don't deny these are the words of Karl Marx, Isfahan. They are taken from http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/
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paul wright
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Joined: 26 Sep 2005
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Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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This is all nonsense. Karl Marx was a "Jew" funded by "jews" This is all we need to know. It doesn't lead to the notion that it's all a big "jewish" conspiracy" That's what they want us to think and promote
That will be the foremost meme promoted in the "Conspiracy Files" 7/7 programme, the true issues will pale alongside this promotion
Stop promoting it yourselves
_________________
http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction |
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isfahan
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This is all nonsense. Karl Marx was a "Jew" funded by "jews" This is all we need to know. |
I'm not sure what you mean about Marx being a Jew funded by Jews. Marx was funded by Friedrich Engels who, as far as I know, wasn't Jewish.
But I fully endorse your concerns that all this anti-semitic wrangling is bad news for this Forum. In fact it's a disgrace.
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Dogsmilk
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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kbo - I was going to write a full reply to your last post to me, but I think it is a waste of time.
For example, you say
| Quote: | ou haven't disappointed. The Cr*p above is no kind of response to the post in question.
There is nothing about 'Jews' in the Russo interview. Nothing.
As has long been clear you are not in the least interested in debating 9/11. This is just another exercise in messy misdirection. |
Conveniently not noticing I wrote "kbo - " when I actually started to reply to you. I thought it would have been bleeding obvious the first bit was directed at your Nazi friend Sparky. I was obviously wrong. You say
| Quote: | You really are ready to trust these people, aren't you?
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Apparently having misplaced your reading glasses and not noticed I described it as an "abomination". You would of course be the first to say trying to make sense of something doesn't mean you "trust" it.
You write comedy like
| Quote: | | t is impossible to oppose government and corporate power effectively....this is Chomsky's line and government and corporate power are entirely safe from people like this. IMO Chomsky is in the business of protecting these agencies….after all he is funded by them |
Conveniently ignoring the fact Chomsky's entire line is that people can oppose government and corporate power and this is something he goes on about repeatedly. I can't think why an eminent professor of linguistics would be being funded, but I wonder if it's like that "funding" that apparently "proves" Steven Jones is a government shill.
Weirdly, I'm able to not agree with Chomsky's "doesn't matter" comments while simultaneously not deciding that this means he's evil and everything he says is a government sponsored lie. And denouncing everyone who doesn't agree with the TM's position as a shill is just going to be so productive isn't it? It will just get it taken so much more seriously.
You still accuse me of misrepresenting you and still refuse to say how I did so. You still refuse to answer any of my questions no matter how many times I repeat them. You basically ignore the bulk of my replies then accuse me of not being truther enough for your personal liking. You write guff like
| Quote: | | You oppose 9/11 Truth but you do not deny 9/11 Truth. |
Because anyone who rejects your incoherent Jew obsessing and who doesn't think 'Zionists" engineered the common human decency which is anti-racism is obviously opposing 911 truth right? Because your truth is the only truth. Obviously. And then we'll all turn to Jesus and dispose of the "Antichrist" "Talmudists". Hallelujah!
In the meantime, in in their own words, one of the Jersey Girls says "we still do not know the whole story about what happened on September 11th at all". And doesn't mention "Zionists" once.
Blimey - maybe she opposes 911 truth?
And in the meantime, poor old Isfahan has been lumbered with...well I'm not actually sure of the point Alexander is trying to make.
| Quote: | but the book was a polemic, and must be viewed within its historical context.
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Fat chance round here.
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simplesimon
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Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 249
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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"A pregnant non-jew is no better than a pregnant animal." Talmud, Coschen Hamischpat, 405
_________________
If you want to know who is really in control, ask yourself who you cannot criticise.
"The hunt for 'anti-semites' is a hunt for pockets of resistance to the NWO"-- Israel Shamir
"What we in America call terrorists are really groups of people that reject the international system..." - Heinz "Henry" Kissinger |
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kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: |
Weirdly, I'm able to not agree with Chomsky's "doesn't matter" comments while simultaneously not deciding that this means he's evil and everything he says is a government sponsored lie. |
Who said Chomsky was evil....or lying?
I said he does not attack his sponsors and therefore his protests are ineffectual.
It is impossible to know if he is 'lying'.
I suspect he is not.
He is probably being protected by his subconscious instinct for self-preservation.
Do I ignore everything you say??
Really?
Unlike yourself, of course.
I've had enough of this rubbish Dogsmilk..
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Dogsmilk
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I said he does not attack his sponsors |
What sponsors?
How is anti-racism "Zionist" kbo?
What's your honest opinion?
Last edited by Dogsmilk on Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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simplesimon
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Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 249
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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kbo234 wrote:
| Quote: | Dogsmilk wrote:
| Quote: | | Weirdly, I'm able to not agree with Chomsky's "doesn't matter" comments while simultaneously not deciding that this means he's evil and everything he says is a government sponsored lie. |
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Bogus extrapolation and hysterical exaggeration of what his target says, turned back with venom intended to infuriate. Always the same.
_________________
If you want to know who is really in control, ask yourself who you cannot criticise.
"The hunt for 'anti-semites' is a hunt for pockets of resistance to the NWO"-- Israel Shamir
"What we in America call terrorists are really groups of people that reject the international system..." - Heinz "Henry" Kissinger |
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isfahan
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Because anyone who rejects your incoherent Jew obsessing and who doesn't think 'Zionists" engineered the common human decency which is anti-racism is obviously opposing 911 truth right? Because your truth is the only truth. Obviously. And then we'll all turn to Jesus and dispose of the "Antichrist" "Talmudists". Hallelujah! |
Dogsmilk, what's the point of arguing with these creatures? They're sick. Perhaps it's better if we just let them spout their hateful venom until they bring this Forum down? Maybe that's their intention. I don't think they give a toss for this Forum, just their ugly egos.
Let them wallow in their own sh!te.
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kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| isfahan wrote: | | Perhaps it's better if we just let them spout their hateful venom.... |
calling you an idiot isn't 'hateful venom' it is a response to a simple, emotionally neutral observation.
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kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| isfahan wrote: | | Quote: | | Because anyone who rejects your incoherent Jew obsessing and who doesn't think 'Zionists" engineered the common human decency which is anti-racism is obviously opposing 911 truth right? Because your truth is the only truth. Obviously. And then we'll all turn to Jesus and dispose of the "Antichrist" "Talmudists". Hallelujah! |
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Who are you quoting here?
This is incomprehensible drivel.
If, as it seems, you are responding in anger to your own self-created fantasies I'd call that self-abuse.
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| isfahan wrote: | | Quote: | | Because anyone who rejects your incoherent Jew obsessing and who doesn't think 'Zionists" engineered the common human decency which is anti-racism is obviously opposing 911 truth right? Because your truth is the only truth. Obviously. And then we'll all turn to Jesus and dispose of the "Antichrist" "Talmudists". Hallelujah! |
Dogsmilk, what's the point of arguing with these creatures? They're sick. Perhaps it's better if we just let them spout their hateful venom until they bring this Forum down? Maybe that's their intention. I don't think they give a toss for this Forum, just their ugly egos.
Let them wallow in their own sh!te. |
Good idea.
I'd still like to know how anti-racism is "Zionist" though.
And I forgot to say -
| kbo234 wrote: | | I want this kind of power and these kind of people to be removed from positions of influence. I want to see the pyramid inverted so that it is not possible for highly placed individuals to exercise control over anybody |
This sounds suspiciously like the kind of thing Marx was into; are you a communist?
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kbo234
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | | Quote: | | I said he does not attack his sponsors |
What sponsors? |
Go away and find out from where MIT gets most of its money. This information is in the public domain.
| Dogsmilk wrote: |
How is anti-racism "Zionist" kbo?
What's your honest opinion? |
We've been through all this before.
You are just trying to change the subject.
There is no honesty in exchanges with you..........it is all just tactics, tactics, tactics.
After so much time on this noticeboard please explain why every aspect of 9/11 remains such an incomprehensible mystery to you.
It is impossible to tell who's to blame, isn't it?
....or even if anyone's to blame? We're human and we're all so
.........so
..........so
.........um....'damaged'....aren't we darling?
It is about time you made your mind up on the core issue.......and then let us argue over the facts rather than indulge in this phony rubbish. If people like me are wrong in our assertion that 9/11 was an inside job then you would be reasonable in criticising our 'joining of the dots' because this activity would be based on a false premise. The dots can, of course, be erroneously joined, but what one believes about 9/11 will inevitably change the way you think about everything else.
However, astonishingly, you show little interest in challenging the basis of our extrapolations.
As I said, Dogsmilk, your strategy is highly evolved......
Here's a question for you on your favourite subject:
Is it reasonable for me to happily accept that there are people directing the destiny of my society and therefore of my life and my childrens' lives who think of us as 'cattle' (and are not ashamed to say so)?
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chek
Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| kbo234 wrote: | | Is it reasonable for me to happily accept that there are people directing the destiny of my society and therefore of my life and my childrens' lives who think of us as 'cattle' (and are not ashamed to say so)? |
Very reasonable.
Kbo - meet supra-national corporation and its shareholders.
Corporation -you probably know kbo's profile very well already, after all he supports you every time he buys something.
But don't worry, because kbo knows that the ills of the world aren't down to you in any way whatsoever.
And if there's one thing you can be sure about any card-carrying 'Talmudic Judaism' hater, it's that they don't have a bad word to say about capitalism.
The sponsors don't like that.
_________________
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
It's them or us. |
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simplesimon
Moderate Poster
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 249
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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isfahan wrote:
| Quote: | | ... these creatures... They're sick....just their ugly egos.... wallow in their own sh!te... |
If I were to say that I'm "offended" by that isfahan, would that mean (by your own logic) that you should be banned?
I would be the first to defend your right to stay.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/forum
Forum
• noun (pl. forums) 1. a meeting or medium for an exchange of views.
I don't see anything about "strict parameters regarding discussion", the permissibility of "speculation", or "ridicule".
| Quote: | | Perhaps it's better if we just let them spout their hateful venom until they bring this Forum down? |
Exactly how could this forum be "brought down" by members, er, exchanging their views? You seem to be insinuating there is some kind of external threat, and inviting us to be scared of it.
| Quote: | | I don't think they give a toss for this Forum |
I care very much. I want it to be a forum, and not a place where we have to take orders on what we can think and say.
Just who do you think you are to:
a) tell others what they can think and say here?
b) invoke an external threat?
_________________
If you want to know who is really in control, ask yourself who you cannot criticise.
"The hunt for 'anti-semites' is a hunt for pockets of resistance to the NWO"-- Israel Shamir
"What we in America call terrorists are really groups of people that reject the international system..." - Heinz "Henry" Kissinger |
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Go away and find out from where MIT gets most of its money. This information is in the public domain.
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I haven't even bothered to look.
Chomsky works for the department of linguistics at MIT and it's not massively surprising he has a tenure as his contribution to the subject is enormous. Big deal. You may as well say there's something sinister about the way every other academic there gets "funded".
How is your job funded? I hope its got nothing to do with the govt or I might get suspicious.
Is that it????
| Quote: | | We've been through all this before. |
Really?
Where?
All I see is you constantly dancing round it.
| Quote: | t is impossible to tell who's to blame, isn't it?
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Ultimately it probably is possible.
But ok then; please tell me exactly who is responsible for 911 and exactly how they did it.
| Quote: | ....or even if anyone's to blame? We're human and we're all so
.........so
..........so
.........um....'damaged'....aren't we darling? |
Uh...yeah...right.
| Quote: | It is about time you made your mind up on the core issue.......and then let us argue over the facts rather than indulge in this phony rubbish. If people like me are wrong in our assertion that 9/11 was an inside job then you would be reasonable in criticising our 'joining of the dots' because this activity would be based on a false premise. The dots can, of course, be erroneously joined, but what one believes about 9/11 will inevitably change the way you think about everything else.
However, astonishingly, you show little interest in challenging the basis of our extrapolations. |
The false premise here is that 911 automatically extrapolates into constantly banging on about the Talmud, "Zionists" and the Holocaust.
Whether 911 was an inside job or not doesn't totally change my worldview. Say - for the sake of argument - it wasn't - We still invaded Afghanistan with no justification, we still invaded Iraq with no justification, there is still no genuine basis for an ongoing "war on terror", there is still nothing to suggest Islamic terrorism is "the biggest threat since WWII", multinational corporations still have more power than many governments, we still make one vote every 4-5 years so one individual out of 500 odd 'represents' thousands of us without being bound to manifesto promises and subject to the whip and call that 'representative democracy', we still have a widening gap between rich and poor, we still have an arms trade pumping weapons into the hands of children in Africa, we still have frankly outrageous 'conspiracies' like Gladio, we still see corporate welfare going up and public welfare going down, we still have ID cards coming for no sane reason, we still have the child slavery of sweatshops. Etc etc etc.
This is not to say 911 doesn't matter - it does, and if people are guilty they should be brought to justice - as they in theory should anyway for the wars they've started - but the world wouldn't be that much rosier if OBL really did do it on his own. Discovering the TM didn't precipitate any epiphany in me. Just a bit of internal self slapping down about taking the 'official narrative' a bit too for granted.
But even without that, I have been 100% convinced for a while that 911 is catagorically a psychological inside job. "The day that changed the world". Jello Biafra made a good point when he said on 911 he and some friends discussed how this must be like what people in other parts of the world go through all the time. Even if the OT turned out to be true, I'd say it is still undeniable that 911 has been milked outrageously and the dead used as propaganda tools.
And if you read your Chomsky, he gives damn good arguments as to why from an OT perspective the WOT is f*cked up. Whichever way you look at it, it's f*cked up. And the reasons it is f*cked up have exactly nothing to do with what it says in the Talmud, and if Israel had never existed, if Hitler had never lived, if Judaism had totally died out years ago, there is no reason whatsoever to suggest - in the grand scheme of things - that would have changed a damn thing. There is not some kingpin Ming the Merciless waiting to enslave us all under some Talmudic yoke cos he's just so damn evil and human existence would be dandy if weren't so. Why do you think it's always some secret rogue element that's doing all the bad stuff in Hollywood films like enemy of the state? Because it's just not cricket to point out that it's the entire structure itself that is messed up.
Look at the corporation. Why does it exist? To make money for shareholders. That's it. The prime directive. The basis of all decision making. CEO is a Jew? a gentile? a Seventh Day Adventist? Irrelevant. Their job is to make money for shareholders. No Talmud required. Arms division? Sell guns, make money. Hang round the pentagon hawking your wares. Pray for war. War is money. Sell guns. It is the sole reason for your existence. By crikey, we gonna go build some new cruise missiles to fire at ragheads.
All sectors of human activity governed by same dynamic. Break the law by dumping toxic waste? Is the fine greater than money saved by dumping? Sole basis of decision making.
Maximise profits, cut costs. The labour movement is annoying. Get rid of it. Though no need to shoot them any more like they did in the 19th century. Look everyone - they're gonna "socialise" you. Wooooo!!!! Come here and rest safe under our nice corporate wing. Pay on your way out. And hey - all those guys were commies created by Jews anyway.
There is to be no law but the law of the market.
Amen.
Aaaaaah. I do enjoy a nice rant on a Sunday evening (lights cigarette).
| Quote: | As I said, Dogsmilk, your strategy is highly evolved......
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I do not have a "strategy". Stop acting like a penis.
If I wanted to act paranoid, I'd say your strategy is to discredit the TM by making it look like everyone is obsessed with teh jooos.
| Quote: | | Is it reasonable for me to happily accept that there are people directing the destiny of my society and therefore of my life and my childrens' lives who think of us as 'cattle' (and are not ashamed to say so)? |
Actually, I think we could basically agree there. We just fervently disagree on who they are and why they do it.
| Sparky wrote: | I care very much. I want it to be a forum, and not a place where we have to take orders on what we can think and say.
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Except you want to send people to Coventry when they don't share your deranged obsession with Jews?
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blackbear
Validated Poster
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 656
Location: up north
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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For many 9/11 has acted as a catalyst in their political and economic thinking.
Some people may even come to a view that power in society is a tad more complex than .......workers, corporations, profit and capitalism.
Former President of the United States had the following to say:
" some of the biggest men in the U.S in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something.
They know that there is a power somewhere, so organised, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it. "
Money As Debt.......http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-905047436258345127 9
The Market.........the invisible hand.........no comment.!
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chek
Mega Poster
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| blackbear wrote: | For many 9/11 has acted as a catalyst in their political and economic thinking.
Some people may even come to a view that power in society is a tad more complex than .......workers, corporations, profit and capitalism.
Former President of the United States had the following to say:
" some of the biggest men in the U.S in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something.
They know that there is a power somewhere, so organised, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it. "
Money As Debt.......http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-905047436258345127 9
The Market.........the invisible hand.........no comment.! |
You...you...don't mean there's reds AND jews AND monsters under the bed, surely?
Spit it out, man!
No comment indeed.
You people really are a joke.
_________________
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
It's them or us. |
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kbo234
Validated Poster
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| chek wrote: |
But don't worry, because kbo knows that the ills of the world aren't down to you in any way whatsoever. |
What???
| chek wrote: |
And if there's one thing you can be sure about any card-carrying 'Talmudic Judaism' hater, it's that they don't have a bad word to say about capitalism.
The sponsors don't like that. |
Sponsors?? What on earth are you talking about? Do you mean I'm part of the problem because I exist within this society and buy corporate manufactured goods like everyone else?
Do you think I am unaware that I, like everyone else, am part of the problem?
What devastating point are you trying to make here?
Is campaigning against our monetary system, which I do (outside of this forum also) not a rejection of capitalism.
I do not frame arguments within the Capitalism/Socialism parameters anymore. I believe right and left are both controlled by the same banking powers and Socialism/Communism is slightly the less preferable because:
1. With Capitalism the system is necessarily less completely controlled so alternative centres of power can more readily spring up to oppose the central authority.
2. The leftist arguments (that I used to accept myself) hijack parts of our God-given sense of morality to subjugate the minds of citizens and seduce them into accepting true tyranny....i.e. complete centralisation (at least that's how it worked out for the poor old Soviets). Cuba seems like a much better model but again power was completely centralised here so, at best, the quality of the system depends entirely (like all pyramidal systems) on the quality of character of the individual at the very top.
Very dodgy system in principle IMO.
3. Communism/Socialism is what the central bankers are working towards with all kinds of pretend 'holy' false morality to sell it for them...e.g. after they create the final world war we'll be offered eternal peace under their protection.
There are obviously big moral issues with governments, crimes like 9/11, the creation of wars etc. I am connecting these things with Talmudic Judaism and Freemasonry because the way I see it Zionists are at the forefront of driving these evils. Our governments are, in effect, Zionist in outlook. Israel is 'everything'. We even help them persecute the poor Palestinians.
Zionism is a political/racial philosophy. Talmudic Judaism and Freemasonry are anti-Christian religions that are, in principle, comfortable with promoting Zionism for whatever reasons.
I identify the principle of 'good' with Christ and therefore, necessarily, the principle of 'evil' with that which opposes Christ.
I do not identify myself with 'good', I just try to recognise it.
In fact it is very interesting that Christ himself objected to being called 'good' in Luke's gospel. He said "Only God is good". He saw himself as possessed of the spirit of God the creator. There is some profound spiritual and psychological truth within this teaching.
So, to identify what is not good in persons, including oneself, is not to judge or condemn them.....but we must make judgement on the principles themselves. Otherwise we are lost.
Most 'wicked' people are merely confused. The spiritual individual realises that selfishness is merely ignorance. We would all change if we recognised the truth of our situation.
We all need to do this all the time. We need to educate our own leaders to respond to their own inborn God-given character rather than the external pressures of the ungodly world and Jews, particularly, need to stop thinking we all hate them and want to exterminate them and see through the wicked teachings promoted by their own leadership.
If they do so it will be the Jews that lead us out of this mess and save us from the nightmare that many of us fear might be coming.
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| blackbear wrote: | For many 9/11 has acted as a catalyst in their political and economic thinking.
Some people may even come to a view that power in society is a tad more complex than .......workers, corporations, profit and capitalism.
Former President of the United States had the following to say:
" some of the biggest men in the U.S in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something.
They know that there is a power somewhere, so organised, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it. " |
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | With Capitalism the system is necessarily less completely controlled so alternative centres of power can more readily spring up to oppose the central authority.
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Generally it's even less accountable because you can't vote out a corporation and it bases human existence entirely around mammon as opposed to concentrating on what people actually need.
| Quote: | The leftist arguments (that I used to accept myself) hijack parts of our God-given sense of morality to subjugate the minds of citizens and seduce them into accepting true tyranny....i.e. complete centralisation (at least that's how it worked out for the poor old Soviets). Cuba seems like a much better model but again power was completely centralised here so, at best, the quality of the system depends entirely (like all pyramidal systems) on the quality of character of the individual at the very top.
Very dodgy system in principle IMO. |
Cuba is a bit meh as you can't really judge them as they've had the most powerful nation on earth breathing down their neck for decades. Just think how totalitarian our govt would be if it faced a threat of such magnitude.
The SU sucked. Still in the early stages, some interesting stuff happened. In the final equation, the SU was state capitalism. Look at how exciting Spain was before the Stalinists f*cked it up.
some centralisation makes sense - a national health service for example, or a national railway.
The trick is, you have to stop people taking power. That requires us to stop thinking in the leadership mentality.
| Quote: | Communism/Socialism is what the central bankers are working towards with all kinds of pretend 'holy' false morality to sell it for them...e.g. after they create the final world war we'll be offered eternal peace under their protection.
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This is just daft imported American stuff. They all went crazy saying the health service would be "socialised" at the thought of any kind of move to universal healthcare. So instead, they pay vast corporations for something that should be free. Everything is being sold to the private sector, not centralised. Just look around you. This is just reds under the bed stuff from across the channel.
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kbo234
Validated Poster
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: |
How is your job funded? I hope its got nothing to do with the govt or I might get suspicious.
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I have been employed by the government and I've got in big trouble for opposing and criticising both leadership of employers and government itself. I have lost my job and gone through a years trauma before winning a court case under the 'Public Interest Disclosures (Whistleblowing) Act'.
The sad and tragic truth is that most people at some time are very happy to see someone do this on their behalf but people, broadly, are too sh*t-scared to stand up for what they believe to be right if there are any possible consequences for them
That's why government get away with being such a bunch or liars and criminals.
| Dogsmilk wrote: | [ | Quote: | | We've been through all this before. |
Really?
Where?
All I see is you constantly dancing round it. |
We've covered this before. I can't be bothered with these shaggy-dog narratives. See last post......and as I've said, there's nothing wrong with anti-racist', 'diversity', 'health&safety', 'Risk assessment cultures except that IMO they are not imposed on us for the reasons that the government claims.
These policies are meant to disempower and divide us into an homogenised yet atomised society that is ever easier to control from the centre.
At the centre are the banking corporate oligarchs who control the think tanks that deliver the policies to our glorious leaders who, like the puppets they are, vote them in and try and sell us all this rubbish.
The bankers predominant philosophy at the moment (until full globalism is achieved) is Zionism. Therefore the source of these wicked policies is the fraudulent self-serving Judeo/Masonic/Zionist mindset. That is the connection.....and it is interesting to note that while 'anti-racism' is the drumbeat of government in the good old UK, the same is hardly true for Israel, is it?
So, in whose interest are these policies being promoted?
Not in the interests of Jews. Israel's future is becoming increasing untenable. Many Israelis realise this. It is to promote the interests of the elite who really are a very wicked bunch indeed. There are many Jews among the elite but this is not a Jewish cadre. I suspect that Jews are being protected while they are put out front to sell the elite's policies. They are put there to take the blame if everything turns to sh*t.
It cannot really be for the good of the Jewish people can it?
That makes no sense at all.
It is about time Jewish people woke up to the problems that are being created for them by their own satanic leadership amongst the oligarchs.
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