West Bank & Gaza - Orthodox Jews Condemn Zionist Pogroms

[blackbear]

Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews Condemn Zionist Pogroms in West Bank and Strangulation of Gaza

NETUREI KARTA of THE ORTHODOX JEWRY - JERUSALEM, PALESTINE

Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews worldwide condemn the savage pogroms unleashed against the Palestinian people in the West Bank by the Zionist terrorist gang known as the "IDF."

The Zionist terrorists are currently on a rampage throughout the West Bank to terrorize Palestinian civil society as they strengthen their hold on the prison known as Gaza.

We implore the world community not to stand idly by and allow the Palestinian people to be terrorized and sacrificed solely in order to make life comfortable for the Zionist regime. Where are the peacekeeping troops? Where are the UN declarations? Where are the world summits of the major powers? Where are the declarations and condemnations? Where are the arms boycotts against the Zionists?

What is the reason for the constant silence in the face of the Zionist miscreants? Is it intimidation and threats to use the term "anti-Semite" against any person or government who dares to criticize their brutality?!

HOW LONG WILL THIS ENDURE? HOW LONG WILL THE ZIONIST REGIME HAVE A FREE HAND AND A BLANK CHECK TO TERRORIZE AND HUMILIATE THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE?

We also condemn the silence of Jewish leaders and rabbis who call themselves Orthodox and who have either been bribed or intimidated by the Zionists.

How long shall you remain silent at the total desecration of the name of God and our holy Torah by the vicious Zionist heretics? You are silent and the word "Jew" is seen among the nations to mean murderer and terrorist!

No person remaining silent shall escape the Day of Judgment because everything is recorded in Heaven!! If you believe in the Torah and follow our Sages then you must not ignore the state-sponsored terrorism committed by the heretical Zionist regime in violation of all international laws and the entire Torah!! We pray for the immediate dismantlement of the rogue Zionist regime and for the immediate restoration of the inherent rights of the Palestinians throughout historic Palestine!

Rabbi Meir Hirsh
Neturei Karta
Jerusalem, Palestine...
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m45645&hd=&size=1&l=e

Thank You....

Time to stop paddling in denile...

[Desmond]

"Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews worldwide condemn the savage pogroms unleashed against the Palestinian people in the West Bank by the Zionist terrorist gang known as the "IDF.""

A little harsh. One thing that people need to accept is that in wars people including civilians will unfortunately die. Civilian casualties are an unavoidable product of war, even more so an urban one. And Israel is at war with Gaza. No-one likes the fact that war kills innocents but it's an unfortunate consequence that needs to be accepted.

Has anyone questioned why we hear about Gaza and not the West Bank? Because Fatah are in control of the West Bank and are in peaceful negotiations. There's new in deaths and the West Bank hasn't had many recently.

"Where are the peacekeeping troops?" In Lebanon last time I checked.

"Where are the UN declarations?" Oh there's been a few, alot of people are upset that Israel ignores them actually.

"Where are the world summits of the major powers?" Again there are plenty of peace summits.

"If you believe in the Torah and follow our Sages then you must not ignore the state-sponsored terrorism committed by the heretical Zionist regime in violation of all international laws and the entire Torah!!"

Actually the Torah encourages the murder of Infidels, Deuteronomy 13:13 for those of you with a Bible.

[Andrew.]

[Desmond]

Sorry Andrew to what are you referring to?

[Andrew.]

[Desmond]

Well there is a semantic difference. Murder is done with intent. For instance I could murder someone. If a piano falls on you then it has killed you not murdered you. The piano lacking freewill cannot have intent and so cannot commit murder, it can however kill.

To murder in fact is limited purely to humans, animals don't murder they all kill.

In this way soldiers can murder but war itself not being human can only kill. It would be wrong to say war murders, it kills, the people involved can murder.

Now if you're asking if capital punishment is killing or murder then that is an awkward question that depends on your view of capital punishment. But if you ask me it's killing and not murder as it is by definition not an unlawful killing and so not a crime, murder refers to a crime.

Murder needs not only some kind of intent but also for it to be a crime. The crime is called murder. Soldiers aren't murdered in battle, they are killed, it is perfectly legal to kill a soldier in battle and so it is not murder.

An interesting question on the semantics of the English language. But why did you ask?

[Andrew.]

[Desmond]

Well that depends on if you believe in a God surely. If you don't believe in a God then you don't believe God has given you any rights because he doesn't exist to do so.

If you believe in a God then it's possible he may have given you a right to self defense. Of course the Christian god preaches to turn the other cheek and to love thy enemy so it could be argued that for a Christian to practice self defense when the message of Jesus Christ suggests that it is wrong to do so would be against his religion.

Buddhism also while lacking a true God figure is also one that emphasizes no violence and since the one of the few ways to defend yourself from violence is with some act of violence this too could be soon as not compliant with the teachings of the religion.

Now Andrew I have been polite enough to answer your questions but you have still refused to answer mine.

Why are you asking me questions on the semantics of the English language and theological arguments?

[Andrew.]

[Desmond]

Walking onto a bus with explosives and detonating is not self defense. Walking into a school and shooting kids is not self defense. Suicide bombing a restaurant is not self defense.

And before you get all pissy. Missing a target with a bomb and walking into one with a suicide belt are different.

"Also what religions teach and what Christ teaches are very different."

No what Christ teaches is the religion. All those that ignore the word of the Lord or preach against it and yet still claim to be Christian are false prophets and apostates.

Men are free to ignore the words but only God will be the true judge of the rightness. And if he said and he because he is infinite and all knowing and doesn't have a habit of lying one would imagine that ignoring or contradicting him is always wrong.

[blackbear]

Hello Desmond....you state....

"A little harsh. One thing that people need to accept is that in wars people including civilians will unfortunately die. Civilian casualties are an unavoidable product of war, even more so an urban one. And Israel is at war with Gaza. No-one likes the fact that war kills innocents but it's an unfortunate consequence that needs to be accepted. "

You call it war.....I call it genocide...........

Toddler dies in Gaza after Israel barred her transfer for treatment elsewhere....Saed Bannoura - IMEMC

The Palestinian News Agency (WAFA) reported on Sunday that a 19-month toddler died at a local hospital in Gaza after the Israeli Authorities barred her family from transferring her to a hospital out of the Gaza Strip.

The infant was identified as Hadeel Jawad Al Haddad, underwent an open-heart surgery in Gaza but needed further medical attention out of the Gaza Strip as the ongoing Israeli siege emptied Gaza hospitals from the basic equipment and medical supplies.

There are hundreds of patients in Gaza who are facing death as Israel is rejecting their transfer to hospitals abroad, and is ongoing with blocking the border crossings and terminals.

The death of Hadeel brings the number of patients who died due to the Israeli siege to 204. Most of the patients who are currently in serious conditions are suffering from cancer, heart diseases, kidney failure and chronic diseases.

In a report release last week, the Palestinian Ministry of Heath in Gaza warned that hundreds of Palestinian patients could die if they don’t receive immediate medical treatment.

Earlier this month a Palestinian man identified as Hassan Issa, 59, died of cancer at a local Gaza hospital after he was barred from receiving medical treatment abroad. Another patient identified as Samiha Abu Jary, 50, died of a heart disease.

The Palestinian Ministry of Health reported that there are more than 450 cancer patients in the Gaza Strip, and all are suffering due to the lack of medicine and equipment.

205 Gazans dead this year as direct result of Israeli seige
Ma'an news

Gaza – Ma'an – According to a statement released on Sunday by the de facto government in Gaza's ministry of health, 205 individuals have died as a direct result of the Israeli siege.

The statistic, says the statement, includes 45 children and takes into account the number of people whose lives would not have been taken if the Israeli siege in Gaza were not in place. The siege, according to the statistic, is counted as the last year of tightened security, not the last three years of restricted access.

The ministry statement was issued following the death Sunday of Hadeel Haddad, a 19-month-old baby girl who was recently denied a permit to leave Gaza for medical treatment.

According to the de facto ministry, more than 1500 patients in the Gaza Strip urgently need medical care abroad, and one third of those patients are children.

The ministry statement called on all free people of the world to intervene and end Israeli "criminal acts" and lift the siege through opening the Gaza Strip's crossing points.

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m45690&hd=&size=1&l=e

Why are people in denile about the present day holocaust against Muslims.?

[Desmond]

Because 205 in a year is not enough to resemble genocide in the slightest. In fact it's a horrible insult to all those that have suffered under genocidal regimes to reduce it to a mere word you bandy around to refer to such deaths.

And ask one simple question. Why Gaza? Why not the West Bank?

205 deaths is not genocide it's a nasty but unavoidable by-product of a nasty vicious war with poor tactics on both sides and a lack of resolve for peace.

[blackbear]

Do you know anything of the history and present day realities of Hamas and Fateh.?

Do you know any other open-air prisons like Gaza.?.. How many smaller open-air prisons are in the West Bank.?

[Desmond]

"How many smaller open-air prisons are in the West Bank.?"

Considering the relative peace between Israel and the West Bank until you show me otherwise I'm gonna go with....... none. Again why is the West Bank better off than Gaza?

"Do you know anything of the history and present day realities of Hamas and Fateh.?"

Oh yes. That history might be why Gaza found itself isolated.

Oh and while you wet your pants over Gaza ask yourself why not only did Israel have a sealed border but Egypt also had one? Seems to me like the Israeli's aren't the only ones who take offense to a Hamas controlled Gaza. The Rafah Border Crossing has been closed since Hamas took over. A fact so many apologists neglect to remember.

[blackbear]

Hello Desmond...

I think you will be happier with your slant on the Zionazi Supremacists of Israel.....with the following:

http://www.hurryupharry.org/

a nasty muslim hate site.....

[Desmond]

I don't hate Muslims, just the nasty ones, like I hate the nasty white folks, or black folks, or Asian folks. Hamas are particularly nasty so I have a distaste for them. In what twisted world am I meant to like a group that walks onto a bus with explosives and shoots school kids?

And yes when it comes down to it I do prefer the Israeli state.

I would also prefer it if you weren't so rude or ignorant to refuse to answer my questions.

[Andrew.]

[Desmond]

"I think they could stop that if they realy wanted to,and how do we know they are not not false flags. I think they could stop that if they realy wanted to,and how do we know they are not not false flags."

All of them? Every single Islamic attack? That really is an absurd claim. Hamas and the Martyrs Brigade are actually lovely kids club who would never dream of hurting anyone? It's insulting to everyone's intelligence to suggest that terrorism doesn't exist and it's all fake. Lies work best when they are based on truth.

"What religion is it you are referring to ?"

Since I mention Christ I was talking about Christianity. (though of course other religions do accept his teachings)

"Why would they want to go there, you cant return to a place you have never been before. "

They? Who is they?

[WyldeChylde]

I have just read the chapter on this humanitarian problem in John Pilger's book, 'Freedom Next Time'.

I think Desmond should give that a read. To be honest, I am disgusted. Both with the Israeli Zionist regime, and with myself for my total ignorance.

Desmond, you say that the Palestinian deaths are an 'unavoidable by-product of war'. Mr. Pilger, and the many Palestinians he interviewed would beg to differ. From what I have read, without doubt I believe that the Israeli army purposely target Palestinians - including children and the elderly. A member of the Israeli army was brought before a military court for 'emptying his rifle' into the body of a 13 year old girl. He expressed no remorse, and was acquitted. He's even quoted as saying " Anything that's mobile, that moves in the [security] zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed."

And this appears to be the norm. People are shot through their windows, their houses are demolished by bulldozers, sometimes despite knowing there are occupants inside. It's appalling. No-one should to defend this, or even downplay it - this is a humanitarian crisis that needs to be addressed internationally (even though Israel has ignored the UN's resolutions countless times) - and until the fear of being labelled and anti-semite has been overcome, I doubt it ever will.

[Desmond]

"without doubt I believe that the Israeli army purposely target Palestinians - including children and the elderly."

For what purpose? It's a waste of decent ammo.

"A member of the Israeli army was brought before a military court for 'emptying his rifle' into the body of a 13 year old girl. He expressed no remorse, and was acquitted. He's even quoted as saying " Anything that's mobile, that moves in the [security] zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed.""

Well there you may have a bad apple, it happens when you employ anyone, some employees just suck. And as far as the security zone goes, that's the same across the world, if you cross the DMZ in Korea the same will happen.

Urban warfare in populated areas is a nasty and messy business that will always result in high amount of civilian casualties, but it needs to be performed, no one likes the idea, but it's the realities of war and people need to get over that.

Oh and of course ask yourself what the other side of that coin is, it's Hamas, it's the Martyr's Bridge, it's the Islamic Jihad. Not exactly peace loving folks, I wouldn't be for taking their side.

[blackbear]

WHY WAS MOHAMMED OMER THE VICTIM OF ISRAELI TERROR?

The answer is simple…. Mohammed says what the zionists don’t want him to say. He speaks the truth on behalf of a million and a half ‘voiceless’ citizens of Gaza. The truth is the biggest enemy of zionism so they attempted to silence him.

The state of Israel has rendered them voiceless in order to continue with the holocaust against their nation…. a holocaust that they wish would remain unnoticed and kept silent about.

Mohammed refuses to remain silent, and for that he was rewarded by fellow journalists… for those two reasons he was himself a victim of the worst type of torture imaginable. Watch the following series of videos to see what a special person Mohammed is. They are taken from his own Website,....

http://rafah.virtualactivism.net/news/todaymain.htm
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/

Israeli soldiers torture 10-year-old in his home
Report, Defence for Children International-Palestine Section, 10 July 2008

A 10-year-old boy was subjected to physical abuse amounting to torture for 2.5 hours by Israeli soldiers who stormed his family's shop on 11 June, seeking information on the location of a handgun. The boy was repeatedly beaten, slapped and punched in the head and stomach, forced to hold a stress position for half and hour, and threatened. He was deeply shocked and lost two molar teeth as a result of the assault.

On Wednesday 11 June 2008, at around 10:30am, 10-year-old Ezzat, his brother Makkawi (7) and sister Lara ( were in their father's shop selling animal feed and eggs in the village of Sanniriya, near the West Bank city of Qalqiliya. The children were suddenly startled to see two Israeli soldiers storm in to the shop.

Interrogation and abuse in the shop

One soldier wearing a black T-shirt started shouting in a loud, menacing voice in Arabic, "your father sent us to you to collect his gun." A terrified Ezzat responded, "My father does not own a gun." The soldier responded by slapping Ezzat hard across the right cheek and his brother Makawi across his face. The soldier then ordered Makkawi and Lara to leave the shop. Once the younger children had left the soldier demanded once again that Ezzat hand over his father's gun. Although Ezzat repeated that his father did not own a gun the soldier ordered him to search for it in the sacks containing the animal feed. Ezzat kept insisting that there was no gun in the shop so the soldier slapped him once again, this time across his left cheek.........

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9683.shtml

"It's a waste of decent ammo.".....the new Zionazi speaks....

[WyldeChylde]

[Desmond]

Odd Blackbear, for someone on this site which claims to seek the truth you do seem to use some biased sources, and you do so without question. Why when evidence fits your view do you not question it's reliability?

"First of all, the Israeli army has ammunition to waste"

No army ever has ammunition to waste, especially not on the field.

"For one, you're assuming that this soldier is the only one who has behaved this way"

No I know that it is more than this soldier, but I also know it is not the entire army.

"And the Israeli court's acquittal of this man serves to demonstrate that this case was not an exception to the rule."

You seem to suggest it was in a security zone which is why he would be acquitted.

"Let's get one thing straight, this is not a war, this is an occupation - some say an illegal one."

A very old argument since Israel no longer has much presence in the Palestinian territories. The settlements were removed and the border created.

"Surely you must realise that the product of injustice and suppression is retaliation and more violence?"

That's a two way argument that only becomes cyclic.

[blackbear]

Boycott, Divestment of Israel. Now.

60 Years of Nakba, 41 Years of Occupation ...

By OMAR BARGHOUTI

"The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet but not to make them die of hunger,” said Dov Weisglass, Sharon’s closest advisor, a few years ago. Today, Israel is slowly choking occupied Gaza, indeed bringing its civilian population to the brink of starvation and a planned humanitarian catastrophe.

If the US government is an obvious accomplice in financing, justifying and covering up Israel’s occupation and other forms of oppression, the European Union, Israel's largest trade partner in the world, is not any less complicit in perpetuating Israel’s colonial oppression and special form of apartheid. At a time when Israel is cruelly besieging Gaza, collectively punishing 1.5 million Palestinian civilians, condemning them to devastation, and visiting imminent death upon hundreds of patients, prematurely born babies, and others, the EU is extending an invitation to Israel to open negotiations to join the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), instead of ending the EU-Israel association agreement due to Israel’s grave violation of its human rights clause. The US and European governments are not only providing Israel with massive economic aid and open markets, they are supplying it with weapons, diplomatic immunity and unlimited political support, and upgrading their relations with it specifically at a time when it is committing acts of genocide.

By frequently freezing fuel and electric power supplies to Gaza for long periods, Israel, the occupying power, is essentially guaranteeing that "clean" water is not being pumped out and properly distributed to homes and institutions; hospitals are no longer able to function adequately, leading to the death of many, particularly the most vulnerable – already more than 180 patients, mainly children and senior citizens have died in Gaza as a direct result of the latest siege; whatever factories that are still working despite the blockade will soon be forced to close, pushing the already extremely high unemployment rate even higher; sewage treatment is grinding to a halt, further polluting Gaza's precious little water supply; academic institutions and schools are largely unable to provide their usual services; and lives of all civilians is severely disrupted, if not irreversibly damaged.

In short, Israel is condemning a whole future generation of Palestinians in Gaza to chronic disease, abject poverty and long-lasting developmental limitations. UN Special Rapporteur for Human Rights, international law expert Prof. Richard Falk, considered Israel's siege a "prelude to genocide," even before this latest crime of altogether cutting off energy supplies. Now, Israel's crimes in Gaza can accurately be categorized as acts of genocide, albeit slow..........

http://www.counterpunch.org/barghouti06052008.html

....Today, in the face of intensifying Israeli war crimes, impunity, and total disregard of international law, international civil society is called upon to initiate or support whatever BDS campaigns that are deemed appropriate in every particular context and specific political circumstances to support Palestinian civil resistance. This is the most effective, the most morally and politically sound, form of solidarity with the Palestinians. In these exceptional circumstances of slow genocide, exceptional, ethically coherent measures are called for. This is the most reliable path to freedom, justice, equality and peace in Palestine and the entire region.

9/11......how come the dancers in fancy dress knew the time of the show....

[Andrew.]

"I think they could stop that if they really wanted to, and how do we know they are not not false flags. I think they could stop that if they really wanted to, and how do we know they are not not false flags."

Desmond wrote:
All of them? Every single Islamic attack? That really is an absurd claim. Hamas and the Martyrs Brigade are actually lovely kids club who would never dream of hurting anYone? It's insulting to everyone's intelligence to suggest that terrorism doesn't exist and it's all fake. Lies work best when they are based on truth.


I don’t know how many as you also don’t know. Innocent until proven guilty. But for someone who is about to commit suicide your examples given are strange targets against the ptb attacking invaders, to the defending established people who live there.



"What religion is it You are referring to ?"
Desmond wrote:
Since I mention Christ I was talking about ChristianitY. (though of course other religions do accept his teachings)

What rabbis Judaism, priests Christianity and Imams Islamist teach, is not what Christ Teaches.




"Why would they want to go there, You cant return to a place You have never been before. "

Desmond wrote:
TheY? Who is theY?

You referred to them as Israelis, I’ll refer to them as people who say they are Jews (some of them think they really are Jews and some know they are not, but it gives them something to hide behind), But predominantly they are eighth century Ashkenazi people who were converts to Talmudic Judaism (the religion not race that we can not criticise) as they have never lived there i.e. the political geographical area that they again wrongly call Israel.

Israel is twofold,
One.
A people not a political state. Racially that includes people of the UK, Ireland, the Baltic States, America, Canada, Australia’s, Northern France parts of Spain, South Africa. But not the Ashkenazi people.

Two
But more importantly Israel means any person of ANY race who follows Christ’s Teachings EXACTLY. So it no good just being a racial Israelite.
A Kingdom with fair Law’s, prosperity and free land for all, security for all Mankind. As opposed to policies that hirelings wrongly call laws dictated by the rich for the rich only.


Israel(champion of God)
ANYONE who KEEPS the COMMANDments, and DOES God's Will, is automatically an Israelite, and grafted-in

Unfortunately not what the blind leading the blind, Rabbis Judaism, Priests Christianity and Imams Islamist teach.

[Desmond]

"Innocent until proven guilty."

And many have been proven guilty.

"But for someone who is about to commit suicide your examples given are strange targets against the ptb attacking invaders,"

That's why it's called terrorism. If it was against a legitimate military target then it would be asymmetric guerrilla warfare.

"What rabbis Judaism, priests Christianity and Imams Islamist teach, is not what Christ Teaches."

Priests, preach the word of Jesus.

Oh and don't feel you need to teach me about Judaism

[Andrew.]

[Desmond]

"A Lawful target would be the gang-leaders/facilitators – politicians/legislators murderous traitors."

Not school kids and club goers then, which is why it's terrorism.

"Show us an example then, and dont forget that most of the books purporting to be Bibles are not. "

The KJV?

[Andrew.]

[Desmond]

"Desmond Wrote: And his interpretation.?
"If you believe in the Torah and follow our Sages then you must not ignore the state-sponsored terrorism committed by the heretical Zionist regime in violation of all international laws and the entire Torah!!" Exclamation"

I never wrote that.

"Instead of killing thousands and millions of other poor people who have never harmed them, they should have all executed their evil rulers and lived in peace under The Torah/Law."

Peace is hard to achieve when surrounded by enemies.