Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: 'protocols of zion' vs. 'jews are perfect' again
AntonH, seeing how, as usual, one gets no engagement with detail of argument but only abusive language...'disgusting'.....
......allow me to engage you with some of your own thesis:
AntonH wrote:
The problem with the theories of an "Israel Lobby" is that it makes the US leadership into the "lesser evil"
No it doesn't.
By your own following sentence you correctly identify them as being, effectively, one and the same entity.
AntonH wrote:
..- with or without a lobby, no US president will ever oppose the interests of Israel - the state was founded as a bastion for US imperialism in the first place, using Jews as cannon fodder for US imperialist expansion in the Middle East.
Who, then are these Americans who are so fixated on Imperial expansion?
I'm not saying you are wrong by the way.
Neither am I saying they are 'Jews'.
But they are the powers of high finance. They are also indisputably Zionists (while it serves their purposes).
I and many others assert that these powers are working to an age-old agenda that goes back many centuries. The available writings re Adam Weishaupt, Cecil Rhodes, Albert Pike, the Protocols are of a single accord........that the aim has always been to create a one-world government that they can (finally, in complete security) control. Protocols 5 gives an inkling as to the kind of world this is likely to be.
....so American imperialism is on the march?....well, yes.....at the same time America is being deliberately financially trashed prior to God alone knows what kind of mayhem and fascism is coming to the American people.
Whatever is happening it is NOT about America, although they will play a large part in any coming chaos. America is just one player in a game that is being driven by the forces of international finance.
AntonH. Such forces do exist. They are not the product of fevered imaginations.
They are real.
Here are a couple of things Woodrow Wilson had to say about these matters (this was the guy who gave America the Federal Reserve, by the way):
Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U.S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.
I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.
So, if you think that politicians are driving this process (as you seem to be suggesting) I believe you are quite wrong.
If it is not politicians then tell us WHO, AntonH.
Politicians manage the processes.....that's all......like a factory manager manages a factory........but it is the factory owners who decide what happens.
My favourite bit of Henry 'kbo's guru' Makow's usual drivel is the bit where he says.
Quote:
Joly, who committed suicide in 1879, was in the habit of "borrowing." He is accused of plagiarizing a popular novel by Eugene Sue, namely "Les Mystères du Paris." (1845) Also his work is predated by one by another of Cremieux's proteges, Jacob Venedy, entitled, "Machiavelli, Montesquieu, Rousseau." (1850)
Uh right. I don't know about the latter, but Joly was accused of plagiarising the former in the dialogue. So the fact that Joly was accused of plagiarising a work of fiction about a plot by the Jesuits for the dialogue somehow fits with the Protocols being genuine in Makow's crazy world. Sane people may see this as further evidence the Protocols are representative of a line of preceeding fiction.
My second favourite is -
Quote:
Reading Kerry Bolton's monograph "The Protocols of Zion In Context" (Renaissance Press, 2003) it became obvious that Joly was plagiarizing from The Protocols and not vice-versa.
Yeah great - a work by a New Zealand neo-Nazi who also wrote Nazism? - an answer to the smear-mongers (you can download it for free Nazi fans! Just do a search for his name and the title) published by a Nazi press featured on the snappily titled 'National Socialist Movement' website. Nice one Henry.
http://www.ns m88.org/articles/renaissance%20press%20catalogue.html
(link broken as usual)
All kinds of fascinating tracts to be found. Inevitably Ben Freedman, the international Jew, - heh - the Protocols and such fantabulous titles as Jews want to dominate negroes, why we Christians should oppose the Jews, call of our ancient Norse religion and four steps to the swastika within. Lovely stuff.
But wait! The Protocols so accurately describe today's world...that means they must be real. The fact they were equally intelligible in 1903 and Joly's practically identical passages were also relevant back into the 19th century is clearly neither here nor there.
Btw -why does Henry Makow describe himself as a Jew when he's a convert to Christianity? Isn't that a bit of a snub to his Lord and Saviour? He wouldn't be trying to magically lend credence to his claims would he? Is that just me being cynical?
Btw, Woodrow Wilson appears to be talking about the negative influence of powerful monopolies which is fair enough but which does not necessarily entail the New World Order planning to enslave us all as described in teh Protocols. AFAIK Wilson never suggested such a thing.
Quote:
Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me
privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of
commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something.
They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so
watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better
not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.
They know that America is not a place of which it can be said, as it used
to be, that a man may choose his own calling and pursue it just as far as
his abilities enable him to pursue it; because to-day, if he enters
certain fields, there are organizations which will use means against him
that will prevent his building up a business which they do not want to
have built up; organizations that will see to it that the ground is cut
from under him and the markets shut against him. For if he begins to sell
to certain retail dealers, to any retail dealers, the monopoly will refuse
to sell to those dealers, and those dealers, afraid, will not buy the new
man's wares.
And this is the country which has lifted to the admiration of the world
its ideals of absolutely free opportunity, where no man is supposed to be
under any limitation except the limitations of his character and of his
mind; where there is supposed to be no distinction of class, no
distinction of blood, no distinction of social status, but where men win
or lose on their merits.
I lay it very close to my own conscience as a public man whether we can
any longer stand at our doors and welcome all newcomers upon those terms.
American industry is not free, as once it was free; American enterprise is
not free; the man with only a little capital is finding it harder to get
into the field, more and more impossible to compete with the big fellow.
Why? Because the laws of this country do not prevent the strong from
crushing the weak. That is the reason, and because the strong have crushed
the weak the strong dominate the industry and the economic life of this
country. No man can deny that the lines of endeavor have more and more
narrowed and stiffened; no man who knows anything about the development of
industry in this country can have failed to observe that the larger kinds
of credit are more and more difficult to obtain, unless you obtain them
upon the terms of uniting your efforts with those who already control the
industries of the country; and nobody can fail to observe that any man
who tries to set himself up in competition with any process of manufacture
which has been taken under the control of large combinations of capital
will presently find himself either squeezed out or obliged to sell and
allow himself to be absorbed.
There is a great deal that needs reconstruction in the United States. I
should like to take a census of the business men,--I mean the rank and
file of the business men,--as to whether they think that business
conditions in this country, or rather whether the organization of business
in this country, is satisfactory or not. I know what they would say if
they dared. If they could vote secretly they would vote overwhelmingly
that the present organization of business was meant for the big fellows
and was not meant for the little fellows; that it was meant for those who
are at the top and was meant to exclude those who are at the bottom; that
it was meant to shut out beginners, to prevent new entries in the race, to
prevent the building up of competitive enterprises that would interfere
with the monopolies which the great trusts have built up.
What this country needs above everything else is a body of laws which will
look after the men who are on the make rather than the men who are already
made. Because the men who are already made are not going to live
indefinitely, and they are not always kind enough to leave sons as able
and as honest as they are.
Attributed. In reference to signing the Federal Reserve Act in 1913. Most likely a compilation of 2 quotes from his book The New Freedom, 1916. No source found for "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country."
That's not to say there aren't powerful people doing very naughty things behind closed doors, but why this lazy thinking that just tries to make everything fit into pre-imagined grand global plots that actually serve to absolve politicians of responsibility for the f*cking mess this planet is in?
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject:
Dogsmilk wrote:
That's not to say there aren't powerful people doing very naughty things behind closed doors, but why this lazy thinking that just tries to make everything fit into pre-imagined grand global plots that actually serve to absolve politicians of responsibility for the f*cking mess this planet is in?
No one is absolving politicians......
........but denying that there is a long-term globalist plot leaves the real enemy, who are a Judeo-Masonic financial oligarchy, invulnerable and free to carry on their dirty business.
The super-rich are making war on the whole world. The 'War on Terror', as most people here understand (even if you don't) is lying bo*locks. It is a war against US.
There is plentiful evidence that there is a long-term plan behind the globalist (New World Order) conspiracy. I also believe, like Makow, that this plan is Luciferian in nature. Freemasonry is, as Pike revealed, basically a Luciferian religion. The Protocols are also clearly Luciferian.
....and 9/11, the media silence on the money-creation scam and much else.....demonstrates conclusively that society is operating according to the principles laid down in those Protocols (as it might well have done for centuries). Basically the rich do exactly as they want and use all their resources to create the conditions that will allow them to continue to do so.
As these forces determinedly propel us towards a third world war deemed by Pike as a necessary final step in the process of gaining total control, I am wondering, Dogsmilk, why you are so happy to give all these people a free pass and let them get on with it unimpeded.
Many people are waking up to reality and although I cannot see how the juggernaut can be stopped I am still hopeful and confident that these wicked people (who brought us 9/11, amongst other things) will not ultimately win.
You might consider the possibility that I, and others like me, are less motivated by what you like to see as 'anti-semitism' than the desire to see our families, friends and the world at large physically survive the next five years.
I am wondering, Dogsmilk, why you are so happy to give all these people a free pass and let them get on with it unimpeded.
In my reality, you're the one giving power a free pass by erecting a fantastical architecture to obscure the blunt simplicity of this uncharacteristically sensible observation -
Quote:
Basically the rich do exactly as they want and use all their resources to create the conditions that will allow them to continue to do so.
Absolutely. And you don't need to resort to mumbo-jumbo about "Judeo-Masonic financial oligarchy" or "Luciferians" for that to be the case.
All you need is to start looking at how come we accept vast material inequality and hierarchical power structures as a given.
Quote:
You might consider the possibility that I, and others like me, are less motivated by what you like to see as 'anti-semitism' than the desire to see our families, friends and the world at large physically survive the next five years.
Yeah cos believing a bunch of guff recycled from 1930s Germany is going to be eminently helpful in getting through the coming years, right?
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 2017 Location: Croydon, Surrey
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject:
Dogsmilk wrote:
Yeah cos believing a bunch of guff recycled from 1930s Germany is going to be eminently helpful in getting through the coming years, right?
typical sh*tfaced, cowardly, evasive abuse.
No engagement with content of the Protocols, nor 'Morals and dogma' by Pike, nor the writings of Weishaupt, nor the reality of secret power and secret oaths.....nor the evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, come to that (seeing as we're on a 9/11 forum).......just verbal rubbishing with allusions to Nazis.
You only enter discussions on this board to bang the 'anti-semite' drum.
I wasn't going to post this film on this forum but you, Dogsmilk, have changed my mind.
Perhaps you would watch this film and explain in detail how the producer has got it all wrong about the 'sources' you have so often referred to on previous posts.
Says the man who (typically) neither acknowledged nor attempted to refute the points I raised in my first post.
Quote:
No engagement with content of the Protocols,
What about the contents of the Protocols? Oooooh. They describe processes you can use to control people have recognised, been concerned about and accused each other of for hundreds of years. Spookeeeee.
Quote:
nor 'Morals and dogma' by Pike, nor the writings of Weishaupt, nor the reality of secret power and secret oaths.....nor the evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, come to that (seeing as we're on a 9/11 forum).......just verbal rubbishing with allusions to Nazis.
Boo hoo.
Quote:
You only enter discussions on this board to bang the 'anti-semite' drum.
I notice you never berated e.g. Blackbear for being singularly obsessed with Israel and Jews or yourself for being overly preoccupied with 'Talmudists' and 'Luciferians' (whatever that means) while you berate me for pointing out how you and others rely heavily on neo-Nazi materials. It's not my fault you like Nazis so much.
Quote:
I wasn't going to post this film on this forum but you, Dogsmilk, have changed my mind
Needn't have bothered. Seen (most of) it. It's sh*t.
My favourite bit is the Reader's digest bit as you don't need to know a thing about the Holocaust to clock what sh&te he's talking.
I also like the bit right at the beginning where he makes out he's searched long and hard to find Yankel Wiernik's book, like its been 'suppressed' or something, thus showing he's a bit like you when it comes to google
http://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm
Quote:
First posted in "ZCHOR" on October 2000
Quote:
Perhaps you would watch this film and explain in detail how the producer has got it all wrong about the 'sources' you have so often referred to on previous posts.
Not that you'll bother to read any of it - God forbid you may have to come to terms with being bamboozled by willfully mendacious claptrap...again.
They even tried to engage with its maker, denierbozo, to no avail.
Quote:
It's been several months since we have started posting our rebuttals to your videoclips. But there hasn't been any meaningful response from you. You have even deleted the links which one of us placed at YouTube. To us that signifies that you know that you have produced trash and that you simply can't defend your deception-packed video.
I have to say I object to the title of this split thread - I (and I don't think anyone else) have never suggested Jews are "perfect" - rather that they are just regular people who happen not to be routinely engaged with plotting world domination or faking genocide.
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject:
kbo234 wrote:
Dogsmilk wrote:
Yeah cos believing a bunch of guff recycled from 1930s Germany is going to be eminently helpful in getting through the coming years, right?
typical sh*tfaced, cowardly, evasive abuse.
On your part, in that post, yes.
kbo234 wrote:
Basically the rich do exactly as they want and use all their resources to create the conditions that will allow them to continue to do so.
I don't suppose for a minute that pointing out that by cloaking the incisive comment shown above in multiple layers of Jewtheory and associated Talmudic mumbo-jumbo and logique d'nutteur neutralises the laudable stated political stance in exactly the same way as the no-planer's nonsense, know-nothing 'logic' neutralises the legitimate rock-solid 911 campaign?
My guess is not.
You'd almost marvel at the symmetry, if you were thick enough to. _________________ Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
Basically the rich do exactly as they want and use all their resources to create the conditions that will allow them to continue to do so.
I don't suppose for a minute that pointing out that by cloaking the incisive comment shown above in multiple layers of Jewtheory and associated Talmudic mumbo-jumbo and logique d'nutteur neutralises the laudable stated political stance?
logique d'nutteur I like that one Chek, mind if I use it?
You were spot on there chek but if you move beyond what is here you have given it more context to survive as well you have moved into the same cloaking. I have removed the extraneous part of your sentence to demonstrate.
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject:
911Eyewitness wrote:
chek wrote:
kbo234 wrote:
Basically the rich do exactly as they want and use all their resources to create the conditions that will allow them to continue to do so.
I don't suppose for a minute that pointing out that by cloaking the incisive comment shown above in multiple layers of Jewtheory and associated Talmudic mumbo-jumbo and logique d'nutteur neutralises the laudable stated political stance?
logique d'nutteur I like that one Chek, mind if I use it?
Of course not Rick.
Here in the virtual world, what's mine is yours and always has been.
Having said that, it's rather perjorative.
But on some rare occasions, that's just what's needed. _________________ Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 3889 Location: North Down, N. Ireland
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject:
TonyGosling wrote:
Wrong - You don't 'have to say' anything.
I would tend to agree that by putting the oooh-scary quotes into their intended context, DM is taking all the thrill out of them.
I myself have been experimenting by leaving certain clauses out of the Highway Code, and I've noticed it actually results in it becoming quite menacing.
Indeed with a little tweaking, there might be a decent thriller lurking in it. _________________ Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.
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