Is it racist to go along with the hijacker legend?

[William_Rodriguez]

[Annie]

As William says, the standard format for the tour was for an introduction by either me or the local organiser, followed by an hour long presentation about William's story and then a chance for people to approach him individually after the event.

This formula worked well across the UK and Europe last year. It kick-started 20 new groups in the UK and, by using his personal experience as an entree, gave the issue of 911 widespread and sympathetic local media coverage, as well as some national media.

William was always utterly professional both when dealing with the media and when giving his presentations. He was a pleasure to work with, and his tours gave the UK 911 truth movement the most consistent and widespread coverage it has ever had, as well as attracting hundreds of newcomers to the movement.

All this came at no small cost and effort. The time and energy that local organisers put into arranging the meetings, publicity and setting up the media interviews was stupendous, as was their kind hospitality. William took a total of three months out of his schedule and away from his wife to help build the UK movement, and just about broke even financially. And let's not forget the sheer grinding hard work of being on tour like that: every morning getting up after a late night working on the film recordings, travelling to the next town and doing newspaper, radio and TV interviews in the afternoon, then giving a presentation in the evening and thereby reliving the trauma of his experiences. Then getting up and doing it all again day after day, week after week.

The only place we had any difficulties was in Scotland, where Keith seemed to want him to do yet more. (Dundee was also the only town where William was scheduled to do two talks in one day, which virtually made him ill with tiredness). The other Scottish organisers were wonderfully helpful and hospitable, so thank you to them, Jay, Paul and Neil particularly!

Perhaps Keith just needs to learn to relax and go with the flow a little more. If a formula is working, perhaps he should just let the team get on and do their stuff, rather than trying to force them to adhere to what he thinks is the best way of campaigning? Why reinvent the wheel?

[Keith Mothersson]

Hi Annie,
When William was first slated to come I e-mailed him to ask if it would be okay to play a brief dvd (the 10 minute version of 911 Eyewitness) before his talk and he replied 'sure, its your show'.

Somewhere along the line it became the Amazing Rodriguez show. He didn't keep to the 'one hour presentation' side of the bargain, and as for 'then a chance for people to approach him individually after the event' [and buy dvds while still under the Rodriguez spell] this in practice meant the speaker trying to close the meeting down after his major over-running. Both in Glasgow and Dundee I had to struggle to not have the meeting closed down by the speaker. It was entirely out of order to have moved to close the Dundee meeting down so Willie could sell his dvds, as people who wanted to buy dvds could well stand at the side and queue, indeed some participated from the siee in what discussion then remained possible after Willie's marathon performance.

I checked to see if two gigs would be too much in Dundee, and the reply was he was up for it. I had emphasised that the first would be just 45 minutes including questions and then he would have time to relax in an Indian restaurant with local activists before the main talk just nearby. Unfortunately he overpowered his audience (in small student union film theatre) for well over an hour and a half, thus entirely throwing out our arrangements and exhausting himself. The students and staff came out looking depleted, bewildered, not empowered. No noticeable follow-up.

Although we gave out slips about a follow-up meeting with time and venue to the 150 plus attenders at the main event (many of them aged hippies by the way - so they wouldn't have been put off by my beard and vegetarian style which Willie takes a pop at) only two came to the follow up meeting. I wonder how many of the '20 groups around the UK' are still functioning, as far as I can tell few sent in information about local group activities to Noel for his pre-AGM newsletter ?

I don't deny that with our help Willie got lots of media coverage, but on at least one occasion he used it to diss the 'crazy wackiness' and 'ridiculous thing after ridiculous thing' of Morgan Reynolds and Judy Wood - that was on Simon Mayo BBC 5 Live 23-Feb-2007.mp3 (259 KB) - the clip is about one minute long: http://checktheevidence.com/audio/911/WR%20Debunks%20Wood%20and%20Reyn olds%20on%20Simon%20Mayo%20BBC%205%20Live%2023-Feb-20

In addition he told at least three reporters about 'seeing one of the hijackers' some months earlier.

So he authenticates the Racist State's racist slur against Arabs/Muslims.

In addition he says he worked at the WTC for 19 years or so before 9/11, thus omitting his time in Rudy Guliani's office, also working for American Building Maintenance - and wants us to believe his cleaning supervisor from this same company had seen plane parts - which he may well have done, but from where? and maybe scattered around to fool people, that seems to me a much more plausible hypothesis than that a soft aluminium plane can enter entirely a steel frame building - including ploughing through steelpanned concrete floors - with no deceleration nor parts falling off and no properly authenticated parts from the right kind of Boeing ever found - or so I understand.

He admits he didn't see planes hit the towers, yet also - in effect if not in intention - authenticates this vital part of the government psyop.

And when he talks about explosions going off in the building beforehand he in effect if not explicitly tends to steer people towards (or coexist with) the controlled demolition thesis, especially as he disses Judy Wood's work [which actually gives a much better account about how the lift system cables and some of the lift doors were going haywire and why it was he was able to survive diving under a truck 'a few metres' from the door of WTC1 which then 'had the entire building fall on it', 110 stories, remember, and yet he is dug out unharmed after four hours ...... hmm, maybe hardly any rubble came down, 95/98 percent of the building material went upwards as fine dust .... google Towers of Dust or Hunt the Rubble.]

Annie, I do need to learn to relax and go with the flow more often. But it wasn't easy to communicate with you either, unfortunately, as in the two short periods we were together in Glasgow and Dundee you often seemed to be on your mobile phone. I guess I was also tense because I was organising this effort for Willie against my better judgment (because everyone else seemed to think it was the thing to do) as I had already vowed not to run any more tours of the traditional kind after you and David came around and we inundated attenders with too much info AS USUAL and involved them too little AS USUAL. (It wasn't good for David, all that super-knowledgeable speaking in front of relatively passive audiences, and it isn't good for Willie either, IMO.)

So I question whether 'the formula worked well' last year. Despite your sincere intentions, hard work and dedication.

I don't agree that you/we advanced the truth much with Willie's tours - maybe some net headway, but in my judgment too many parts of the official story (or official reserve story of controlled demolition) being confirmed, which now leads in to a Media-friendly Inquiry movement.

Well, this all strays a long way from the original title of this thread, but in my view if one puts probabilities of e.g. 0.1 on no CCTV at airports of supposed departure and also independently on each of no eyewitnesses, no boarding stubs, no DNA and also on mobile phone calls being possible, it should be obvious that the chances of there having been 'Muslim hijackers onboard' the supposed official Flights is tiny to vanishing.

But even then the odds get tinier still that these rumoured purported hijackers had anything to do with the mass deaths if we factor in the work of Morgan Reynolds, Simon Shack et al (no planes, just video fakery plane pixels, plus some audio) .....

and even then the odds get vanishingly tinier still that IF there were any planes and IF there were Arab/Muslims aboard and IF they had hijacked the planes ..... that these factors are in any way related to what killed the great majority of those who died on 9/i1, i.e. when the towers went away (which was obviously serious Hi-tech something such as is now being boasted about openly, I see, and promoted for its plausible deniability: http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/will-new-laser.html )

I know this will seem terribly 'intolerant' and 'judgmental' and un-PC, but IMO any 'truth movement' which leaves the door open to LIHOP sells Muslims short.

By contrast the PTB and official Media can live with us questioning many bits of the official story - so long as we don't break with the racist core and whole war-mongering Crusader point of 9/11. ('We don't mind that you think us corrupt murdering b******, just so long as you continue to subscribe to our 'Enemy' mappings.')

In their different ways Reynolds, Wood and Davidson close the door on LIHOP-collusion with the official Enemy mapping. They ask us to uproot our own internal power-identifying cover-up tendencies. That is the main part of why they 'make' people so anxious and come in for so much abuse, as did Andrew Johnson. No blame, but that is what I see has gone on too often and still goes on. [well Okay, I agree Elias doesn't get so much abuse, and I honour your having helped him come to the UK.]

Willie doesn't close this LIHOP door.

And I also worry that the Inquiry movement will come over much too bland, and even once achieved may just take us to the reserve official story. I hope my fears are unfounded, surprise me. But if the price of 'success' with Inquiries and Media is to make nice with the racist core of 9/11, and conform to what John McMurray calls the regulating group mind in his marvellous essay Explaining the Inexplicable in The 9/11 Conspiracy - The Scamming of America, ed Jim Fetzer - then maybe the price is too high, at least I think so.

[William_Rodriguez]

[TonyGosling]

[kbo234]

[Keith Mothersson]

Dear Willie,

I owe you and readers an apology - I got two facts wrong - you didn't work for Mayor Guliani, but rather the much less sinister Governor Cuomo, and Cuomo's office was in the WTC, not elsewhere as I assumed. I gladly "apologise for the stupidity of even making a ridiculous statement like that about somebody that [you] blame for parts of what went wrong on that day".

It was careless of me to make these mistakes and I withdraw the suggestion that you chose not to mention part of your bio working away from the WTC, since it seems that Cuomo's office was within it.

Apparently, according to the Unanswered Questions wire article by Russ Wellen which scoop republished http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0512/S00291.htm

[William_Rodriguez]

Accept your apology, even though you go and again keep quoting "7 levels of Kevin Beacon game" Nico. Sad , you keep spewing the Victim in front of a chromakey thing. He is Kenny Johanneman, who tried to kill himself twice because of deppression of all the friends he lost and the graphic visuals of people jumping out of the building. He has to endure also media manipulation of his statements.

No, to all your other petitions.

Yes, to my email gathering- I have been involved as a family activist for the last 7 years and has gathered it myself. Also have been involved in the preparationwith others, up to last year of the ceremony at Ground zero of 9/11 and that gave me access to that as well, and finally as a member of the board of directors of the now disbanded 9/11 United Services Group, gave also access through a system called DATAMART. Also my interviews all over the world. The list is getting close to 90,000 and have to use several accounts and List serves for email. Email servers like KERIO, etc.

Have a nice life.

[scienceplease]

I am reading an introduction the Pyschology book and it looks like a text book for a 9/11 PysOps:

- People believe Authority Figures, will conform with Authority figures and will virtually always go along with their the majority and their peers
- People will adopt Prisoner/Guard roles easily
- People have poor memories except for "flashbulb" events
- People will believe bad things about groups of people if it conforms with stereotypes.

[William_Rodriguez]

Obedience and Authority
Obedience is compliance with commands given by an authority figure. In the 1960s, the social psychologist Stanley Milgram did a famous research study called the obedience study. It showed that people have a strong tendency to comply with authority figures.
Milgram told his forty male volunteer research subjects that they were participating in a study about the effects of punishment on learning. He assigned each of the subjects to the role of teacher. Each subject was told that his task was to help another subject like himself learn a list of word pairs. Each time the learner made a mistake, the teacher was to give the learner an electric shock by flipping a switch. The teacher was told to increase the shock level each time the learner made a mistake, until a dangerous shock level was reached.
Throughout the course of the experiment, the experimenter firmly commanded the teachers to follow the instructions they had been given. In reality, the learner was not an experiment subject but Milgram’s accomplice, and he never actually received an electric shock. However, he pretended to be in pain when shocks were administered.
Prior to the study, forty psychiatrists that Milgram consulted told him that fewer than 1 percent of subjects would administer what they thought were dangerous shocks to the learner. However, Milgram found that two-thirds of the teachers did administer even the highest level of shock, despite believing that the learner was suffering great pain and distress. Milgram believed that the teachers had acted in this way because they were pressured to do so by an authority figure.
Factors That Increase Obedience
Milgram found that subjects were more likely to obey in some circumstances than others. Obedience was highest when:
Commands were given by an authority figure rather than another volunteer
The experiments were done at a prestigious institution
The authority figure was present in the room with the subject
The learner was in another room
The subject did not see other subjects disobeying commands
In everyday situations, people obey orders because they want to get rewards, because they want to avoid the negative consequences of disobeying, and because they believe an authority is legitimate. In more extreme situations, people obey even when they are required to violate their own values or commit crimes. Researchers think several factors cause people to carry obedience to extremes:
People justify their behavior by assigning responsibility to the authority rather than themselves.
People define the behavior that’s expected of them as routine.
People don’t want to be rude or offend the authority.
People obey easy commands first and then feel compelled to obey more and more difficult commands. This process is called entrapment, and it illustrates the foot-in-the-door phenomenon.

[TonyGosling]

Authority figures gain their authority nowadays through the mainstream media. So by that mechanism the owners hope hey can stop any 9/11 Truth or anti-'New World Order' leaders appearing.
Trouble is there are plenty who get public sympathy just because their voices are so absent from the mainstream media.
And the public are not quite as stupid or as docile as the NWO want to believe.
They have been taken in by their own propaganda and their own vanity.

[paul wright]

Ouch. I'm groaning under the weight of this thread
It comes completely nonsensical when two or more good guys sort their targets at the hearts of each other
They really need to give it up at some point
Equals to Willie and Keith

[William_Rodriguez]

[911Eyewitness]

[William_Rodriguez]

[John White]

It seems appropriate to lock this thread off now