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Response to General forum question -- The "Spire"

 
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sam
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:11 am    Post subject: Response to General forum question -- The "Spire" Reply with quote

The core columns were not one-piece, 911yewitness, they were bolted and welded together. Connections are the weakest part of a steel building.

Consider one of those spectacular chimney stack demolitions.
Here's a couple of great (and very short) examples :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwXKjNDRN2Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgXDIgA-RbE

The damage is done at the base and the chimney collapses down and somewhat sideways. It does not "topple" to the ground as a single unit, because the connections between the bricks at the bottom are failing as it collapses. The mortar/brick connections are designed to support massive vertical loads but relatively minor lateral loads. Ditto the Twin Towers. Once subjected to significant shear the bolts and welds pop. There are countless photos of the steel in the debris showing exactly this. The outcome is that the "Spire" appears to slide down and slightly sideways.

A tree however, being a unit structure, would topple. Large buildings are not unit structures.

But how anybody can be so ignorant of basic science - or lacking in everyday experience - as to believe that the steel "turned to dust" is beyond me. It left behind a cloud of dust, but the steel fell. There is no mechanism on earth - short of manual grinding and a lot of time, that could convert that steel - literally - to dust.

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Micpsi
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'Spire' issue was a red herring that only a minority of the 9/11 truth movement found problematic and which only a even smaller minority, such as Dr Judy Wood, saw as evidence of exotic physics at work because they failed to interpret correctly what happened when the core column dropped down.
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chek
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, I would speculate with the benefit of hindsight, that sometime around 2004, a handful of no doubt bored and over-qualified technicians at some alphabet agency were tasked with seeking out and promoting evermore outrageous theories for some of the more singularly unique footage of the disaster.

Just a personal opinion.

As Stefan points out elsewhere, in the hi-res versions, the angle-cut style one-width 'walk' of the spire is a highly improbable other than in severing terms, and unnecessary for Wood-style dustification.

For anybody interested, an intriguing analysis of the fire soot stains and subsequent cut lines is in progress at:
http://the911forum.freeforums.org/wtc-1-n-and-w-perimeter-failure-line s-t31.html

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sam
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chek wrote:


As Stefan points out elsewhere, in the hi-res versions, the angle-cut style one-width 'walk' of the spire is a highly improbable other than in severing terms, and unnecessary for Wood-style dustification.



If the spire eventually fell because of 'severing' (by this I assume you mean human intervention with charges of some kind) then :

1. Why did they go off 20 seconds after the primary collapse began?

2. How did they and their detonation systems survive the passing of over half a million tons of steel and concrete?

3. Why were the charges in place anyway, given that the (as seen) collapse of the upper section would be so devastating?

No - deprived of lateral support and being impacted from vast amounts of falling debris would distort those columns. We actually see the thing waving. Once moving downwards from an initial failure they accelerate and the joints would be increasingly unable to support the shear load. Nothing exotic required, not even explosives.

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chek
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sam wrote:
chek wrote:


As Stefan points out elsewhere, in the hi-res versions, the angle-cut style one-width 'walk' of the spire is a highly improbable other than in severing terms, and unnecessary for Wood-style dustification.



If the spire eventually fell because of 'severing' (by this I assume you mean human intervention with charges of some kind) then :

1. Why did they go off 20 seconds after the primary collapse began?

2. How did they and their detonation systems survive the passing of over half a million tons of steel and concrete?

3. Why were the charges in place anyway, given that the (as seen) collapse of the upper section would be so devastating?

No - deprived of lateral support and being impacted from vast amounts of falling debris would distort those columns. We actually see the thing waving. Once moving downwards from an initial failure they accelerate and the joints would be increasingly unable to support the shear load. Nothing exotic required, not even explosives.


Iggs honey, I haven't forgotten about this topic so please bear with me.

I'm having to recover data from a rather large drive and it's taking some time to do so.
When I have the specific info I've previously collected relating to El Spiro (pardon my french) to hand I'll reply further.

Provided old age hasn't done for us by then.

In the meantime, some quick off the top of the head speculations (which is all that you're inviting here) could be:

1) For the core to form a 'guide rail' for the collapse.

2) There wasn't half a million tons of material within the core area.

3) To complete the demolition once item 1 was achieved.

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