22Jul05 Jean Charles De Menezes Stockwell tube train murder

[guzman]

[guzman]

[keithm]

does anyone know if jean charles de menezes worked in the U.S prior to 9/11.

i was just wandering,him being an electrician,

is it possible he was part of a team that rigged the twin towers and wtc7 and they were worried he may talk.

7/7 and the terrorist threat being used as a diversion and perfect excuse to eliminate him.

[conspiracy analyst]

[QuitTheirClogs]

Are witnesses consciously or subconsciously having their memories altered?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7457653.stm

If someone was killed in front of you would you remember what happened? Many experts are challenging the view that eyewitnesses recounting what they saw is the best way of tapping their memory. Some think brain scans could be the way forward.

...a significant proportion of people seem to be highly suggestible and will quite readily change what they remember if given appropriate cues.

In one famous study, Dutch researchers questioned people about a 1992 accident in which a cargo plane had crashed into a block of flats near Schiphol Airport.

Ten months later, they conducted a survey asking if people remembered seeing the TV film of the plane hitting the building. More than half of the respondents said they had. A later study found that the proportion had gone up to two-thirds.

The problem is, there is no TV film of the accident. Asking the question had itself apparently changed people's memories.

A similar phenomenon happened with the shooting in London of the suspected terrorist Jean Charles de Menezes at Stockwell Underground Station.

Initially witnesses claimed that he was wearing bulky clothing and that he had vaulted the ticket barriers as he ran from police.

A police spokesman said on the day that, "his clothing and behaviour added to their suspicions", and that he ran onto the train after police had issued warnings. These claims were incorrect.

But people still express surprise when told he wasn't wearing a large coat and are confused about how he entered the tube because the inaccurate reports became cemented into individual memories.

So are witnesses consciously or subconsciously having their memories altered?

There is little data available regarding the extent of suggestive questioning of eyewitnesses. One British study using actual interviews indicates that approximately one out of every six questions posed to eyewitnesses was in some way suggestive.

The police say they are already aware of the risks and do their utmost to avoid them.

[TonyGosling]

Interesting video of an SAS operation.
MO is to make it look like an ordinary police operation if at all possible.
Jean Charles de Menezes

Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WPsDaoBSEo

[TonyGosling]

Anonymity for the guilty?

48 police officers will be hidden behind a screen to protect the identities of the guilty - ridiculous - not an inquest at all

Apologies folks but we have to go to Australia for this story.......

[fish5133]

The report I read in the mail or Express said the shooters actually had Charles restrained with his hands pinned behind his back BEFORE they put 7 bullets in his head. Obviously by restraining his hands they must have some belief he was then incapable of letting of a bomb.

[Disco_Destroyer]

I expect he was chosen because he had no baggage ie. less comeback in court as he was an illegal alien
A safer option against targeting a national with all the protection of the courts. Even if he was a suspect as they claimed mistaken identity.
It was just an excersice in fear that is all, your leaders mean business.

[dewstru]

Ken livingstone's part in Menezes assassination?

I talk of course of the hated (by me at least) TFL Oyster card, did it identify and betray Jean Charles Menezes that fateful day in 2005? I expect this has been debated before but it just came to me the other day.It's amazing what we put up with in this country, having our every journey recorded on some sinister database somewhere. Am i right in saying you don't get a reciept with every TFL oyster card transaction? surely the data protection act stipulates YOU SHOULD FFS!?! The illegal Iraq invasion ,chemtrails, ID cards, 9/11, 7/7 ...we just lie down and take it, is there something in the water?

Boris is an imbecile BUT I say NEVER A-KEN!

[dewstru]

I just KNEW Tony would edit my post, it's a compulsion with him already! I think I may have stumbled on proof the assassins knew who they were after as all they had to do to identify him was tap into the oyster card database, will the "prosecution" in the enquiry persue this?

[TonyGosling]

I haven't edited your post - I merged it into the previous topic.

And took the trouble to preserve your headline by cutting and pasting it into at the top of the post.

If you don't want to come across as a shill please PM me next time.

[dewstru]

Edited/merged...same difference Tone. I started a topic trying to expose the BBC(hawkphtt!) broadcasting (Foxnews-style)evidence of David Shayler's apparent mental breakdown for laughs and you merged it into an obscure Shayler thread...then you changed my header about the Independent trying to be clever re. the 9/11 truth, so to date you've edited 3/8ths of my posts.

'Shill' is fighting talk, has my expressing sympathy for Dr. Judy Wood's 911WTC theories upset you perhaps?

[dewstru]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqytiKnWdNI

How did you keep your cool with Aaronovitch Tony? RESPECT!

[xmasdale]

http://news.aol.co.uk/menezes-marksman-accused-of-lying/article/200810 28144739136615376

Menezes marksman accused of lying

Last Updated: Wednesday, 29 October 2008, 02:46 GMT- Search: De Menezes inquest

Menezes marksman accused of lying

A police marksman was accused of lying to explain why he shot Jean Charles de Menezes.

The highly-trained firearms specialist, using the code name C2, revealed how his gun became jammed as he unloaded six bullets at the innocent Brazilian from point-blank range.

But Michael Mansfield QC, for the de Menezes family, claimed C2's evidence that he heard Mr de Menezes was "definitely our man" had been fabricated.

Mr de Menezes died on July 22 2005 after being shot seven times in the head by C2 and his colleague, C12, who both mistook him for failed suicide bomber Hussain Osman.

Evidence from C2 marked an end to a lengthy wait for the de Menezes family and the Justice4Jean group, who have campaigned to hear evidence from the gunmen since he was shot dead.

Both C2 and C12 spoke of their sorrow for the family and revealed they think about the tragedy "every day" as they came face to face with his mother, brother and cousins for the first time. But, speaking outside court, the Brazilian's mother, Maria Otone de Menezes, 63, accused C2 of being "very cold", adding: "He may have apologised but it certainly didn't seem like he meant it."

C2, who said he was convinced Mr de Menezes was a terrorist about to set off a bomb, told how he never heard the instruction to go to "state red", meaning the firearms teams should intervene to detain the suspect. And he said his Glock pistol "malfunctioned" at the critical moment he opened fire at Stockwell Tube station, south London.

C2, who also revealed he only shouted "armed police" after deciding to shoot, said: "At the time I fired I believed that I, and everyone else, was about to die. From my position I knew that I could not access the brain stem. I could not be certain that of immediate incapacitation. I had to ensure that life was extinct also because of the fact I had a stoppage. I could not be certain if I had lost rounds in the process."

When asked if he had to reload the weapon by hand, he said: "Yes, sir, because of the fact it had malfunctioned."

Mr Mansfield later claimed C2 had only one thing in mind as he stepped inside the station - to "shoot this man as quickly as possible".

Last Updated: Wednesday, 29 October 2008, 06:46 GMT

[Pikey]

Last weeks coverage of the trial on the BBC news indicated that the officer had shot CDM in the head three times.

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of the truth is that he was shot in the head seven times.

I am yet to read an account of how and why CDM was shot in the head seven times by a civilised and professionally trained police force .

[xmasdale]

[Disco_Destroyer]

[dewstru]

Further to what I said earlier about JCM's killers knowing who they had got as they would obviously have hacked into the Oyster card database while tailing him, it would have also shown whether or not JCM vaulted the barrier or swiped his card FFS! Hasn't this occurred to barrister Mansfield?

[dewstru]

It has gone VERY quiet on the Menezes inquiry front lately

[simplesimon]

Who would have thought?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7760684.stm

[Stefan]

Disgusted is the only word I can muster.

[dewstru]

Disgusted is not the word! they knew who they were tailing,they must have hacked into the tfl oyster database, he knew something and had to be eliminated.

[TonyGosling]

The judge is trying to sow seeds of division and pull the wool over the jury's eyes.

They can deliver any verdict they want.

[John White]

An outrage

[chek]

[fish5133]

Lawful killlig or open verdict? Now how on earth could the jurors arrive at a "lawful killing" The judge has basically said it can only be an "open verdict" Whatever that means.

[uncontrolledexperiment]

De Menezes coroner rules out unlawful verdict:

“I so direct you the jury to consider how economical the police were in shooting Mr De Menezes only seven times in the head, saving the taxpayer the burden of extra spent rounds.

The fact that 17 passengers on the tube train did not hear the police shout any warnings, should not mislead you into thinking the police did not shout. When people are absorbed in reading a particularly stimulating novel it is easy to miss the shout of 'STOP, ARMED POLICE!'

Even if the police officers had not shouted a warning, that would not constitute an unlawful killing. A verdict of unlawful killing could only be allowed if you were in a free society where you could decide that a specific officer had committed murder or manslaughter.

I would like to remind you that British police are still the best in the world at carrying out awfully lawful killings and cover ups and to think otherwise will soon be illegal.”

[fish5133]

Lawful Killing: Is when a lawful order to kill a specific person irrespective of guilt suffers multiple c*** ups, negligence,mistakes,false information given to press, attempted police cover ups and results in the death of a totally different innocent person.

Lawful killing= 7 bullets in the head of an innocent man

[simplesimon]

Majority option for Menezes jury

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7773815.stm

If only they say "Pre-meditated murder by the state" as Tariq Ali nearly said on Any Questions.

Anyway. It's taking an encouragingly long time.