22Jul05 Jean Charles De Menezes Stockwell tube train murder

sycorax82 · Minor Poster Joined: 12 Aug 2007 Posts: 57

It's funny how top brass seem to be totally immune in this situation, how everything hinges on the 'decision' the gunmen made. Like even pulling a weapon on a packed tube station would ever be something they could do without high authorisation. When 7 bullets are fired into a man's head they have not been fired by anyone who was remotely considering any other option.

scubadiver · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject:

Jury return 'open verdict' at inquest

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7764882.stm

TonyGosling · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject:

Ta scuba,
V. quick off the mark!

Jury reject the Scotland Yard version of events.
Time, perchance, to look again at 7/7?

conspiracy analyst

Police has never been prosecuted for murder for any crimes so whats new?
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Jean Charles de Menezes verdict: The 12 answers which damned the police
The jury at the inquest into the death of Jean Charles de Menezes was asked to answer 12 questions by the coroner, Sir Michael Wright. This is how they responded.

By Gordon Rayner
Last Updated: 4:44PM GMT 12 Dec 2008
; http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1488655367/bctid46527520 01 http://www.brightcove.com/channel.jsp?channel=1139053637

Q. Did officer C12 shout the words "armed police" at Mr de Menezes before firing?

A. No

Q. Did Mr de Menezes stand up from his seat before he was grabbed in a "bear hug" by (surveillance officer) Ivor?

A. Yes

Q. Did Mr de Menezes move towards officer C12 before he was grabbed in a "bear hug" by officer Ivor?

A. No

Q. Do you consider that any of the following factors caused or contributed to the death of Mr de Menezes?

1. The suicide attacks and attempted attacks of July 2005 and the pressure placed upon the Metropolitan Police in responding to the threat?

A. Cannot decide.

2. A failure to obtain and provide better photographic images of the suspect, Hussain Osman, for the surveillance team?

A. Yes

3. A failure by the police to ensure that Mr de Menezes was stopped before he reached public transport?

A. Yes

4. The general difficulty in providing an identification of the man under surveillance (Mr de Menezes) in the time available and in the circumstances after he had left (his flat in) the block in Scotia Road?

A. No

5. The innocent behaviour of Mr de Menezes which increased the suspicions of some officers?

A. No

6. The fact that the views of the surveillance officers regarding identification were not accurately communicated to the command team and the firearms officers?

A. Yes

7. The fact that the position of the cars containing the firearms officers was not accurately known to the command team as the firearms officers were approaching Stockwell station?

A. Yes

8. Any significant shortcomings in the communications system as it was operating on the day between the various police teams on the ground and with New Scotland Yard?

A. Yes

9. A failure to conclude, at the time, that surveillance officers should still be used to carry out the stop of Mr de Menezes at Stockwell station even after it was reported that specialist firearms officers could perform the stop?

A. Yes

Stefan · Banned Joined: 29 Aug 2006 Posts: 1219

This is the only question that matters -

"Was the killing lawful?"

"No ** *** *******""

Wright has censored the end of the sentence but that's not going to wash with the public.

"No it was unlawful" - Everyone can hear it loud and clear whether he lets them say it or not.

Logic speaks louder than words.

TonyGosling · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject:

Cressida Dick still free to walk the streets and on a whacking salary as a 'public servant'. She was given the wrong location for a briefing at Scotland Yard by the officer from whom she was taking over, and missed the first 25 minutes. The delay meant she did not meet her deputy commanders face-to-face and was unable to influence the briefings of the CO19 firearms team. Cressida Dick is the crook

The Coroner is the crook

Jean Charles de Menezes: Was coroner right to rule out unlawful killing?
The family of Jean Charles de Menezes has a strong chance of overturning Sir Michael Wright's decision not to allow a verdict of unlawful killing, an expert on inquest law has said.........
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/liberaldemocrats/3 726264/Jean-Charles-de-Menezes-Was-coroner-right-to-rule-out-unlawful- killing.html

Britain: More revelations about secret shoot-to-kill policy at de Menezes inquest - By Paul Mitchell - 25 November 2008
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/nov2008/mene-n25.shtml
The inquest into the shooting of innocent Brazilian electrician Jean Charles de Menezes on July 22, 2005, has revealed more about Britain's secret shoot-to-kill policy. Jean Charles was shot nine times in the head at Stockwell station by anti-terrorist squad officers following-up the failed explosions on London's transport system the previous day....

paul wright · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:15 am Post subject:

There was a reason the Coroner prohibited an "unlawful killing" verdict regarding the death of Jean Charles
Even the Justice 4 Jean aren't tickling this out at the moment
The Met would undoubtedly have wished for a couple of CO19 officers go up against the wall for this murder
It would have taken a whole lot of heat off the organisation - individual responsiblity or irresponsibility - and at the least misinterpretation of the abominable since-promoted Common Purpose Cressida Dick's orders
The problem is eleven bullets were fired at close range at Jean Charles, one missing, three in the shoulder, and seven in the head
The munitions used were dum dum bullets which splay out on entry into the body and cause maximum damage to the tissue leaving a very large exit hole. Jean Charles head must have been totally obliterated.
Dum dum bullets should not have been available to CO19 armed cops, being illegal for use in mainland UK cop operations
Available, however to some units of the military
The Special Reconnaissance Regimentt was operating on this day. The guy surveilling the flats shared by Jean Charles and chapati-flour bomber Osman was allegedly taking a leak when Jean left his flat , was SRR
It's reasonable to assume that the SRR military, who share their headquarters with the SAS, were fully involved in the operation
It is noticeable that the alleged perpetrators of the de Menezes murder were full anonymous for the inquest
Could it be that these guys were not in fact police officers but army black operatives?
And so the ban on 'unlawful killing'
Seems like a deliberate assassination rather than a horrible mistake
These same SRR type of folk were most likely driving that vehicle loaded with explosives towards Basra back in 05 dressed as Arabs and stopped by an Iraqi roadblock, who were jailed in the Basra prison and freed by British tanks bashing down the walls
Jean Charles de Menezes was most likely not killed by Israeli trained police but by a faction of the UK military operating illegally
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2008/12/de-menezes-was-unlawfully-killed .html

frydays · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject:

UK police state : Mezenes assassins back on the streets
Several counts of perjury and those guys are back on frontline duty.
It seems in UK police are outside the laws. This is the perfect definition of a police state

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/dec/13/jean-charles-de-menezes-polic e-verdict

The real mistake was to cover it up ~ it seems to me that the police operatives lied in hope to cover themselves, now thats totally unacceptable and it should be treated as obstruction of justice.

cem · Trustworthy Freedom Fighter Joined: 28 May 2008 Posts: 484

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1094563/Police-shooting-victim -De-Menezes-died-fog-war-says-Sir-Ian-Blair.html

Police shooting victim De Menezes died 'in the fog of war' says Sir Ian Blair

by David Rose and David Matthews, Mail on Sunday, 14 December 2008

----------------

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3743627/Jean-Charles- de-Menezess-killers-were-not-murderers.html

Jean Charles de Menezes's killers were not murderers

by Alasdair Plamer, Sunday Telegraph, 14 December 2008

----------------

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/david_aaronovitch/ article5333253.ece

De Menezes was the 53rd victim of 7/7

by David Aaronovitch, Times, 13 December 2008

----------------

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/mary-dejevsky/mary-d ejevsky-dont-treat-the-police-like-criminals-1064487.html

Don't treat the police like criminals

by Mary Dejevsky, Independent, 13 December 2008

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dewstru · Suspended Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 61

It must logically follow the jury didn't believe the police and that the killers of JCM lied under oath, perjury?

Nick Cooper · Suspended Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 329

kbo234 · Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject:

I'd stand corrected if I were you Paul.

Our man from the intelligence services really does know what he's talking about here.

.....just remember where he's coming from when addressing issues related to 9/11.

paul wright · Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject:

Nick Cooper · Suspended Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 329

Nick Cooper · Suspended Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 329

paul wright · Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:26 pm Post subject:

Continue clubbing, Nick. It's probably the thing you do best
Your alleged info is nonsense
btw "nonsense" is a substituted software censored word

Nick Cooper · Suspended Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 329

paul wright · Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:00 am Post subject:

To be quite honest, Nick, I dont care whether I'm right or wrong.
Nothing is proven by either case
What I do know is that several dum dum bullets aimed at the head will blow the head apart and off
Only satanist trained cold murderers acting under control could have done this
A normal person would have squeamed at the first one
Shooting someone's head to pieces is an evil act and only a quiesent controlled person could have done it
Not normal cops but SRR controlled freaks

Nick Cooper · Suspended Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 329

dewstru · Suspended Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 61

I'm not totally clear on the CPS's verdict re. the police killers of John Charles Menezes at Stockwell tube station 2005 is, I've just heard the story on BBC R5live, I'm not sure I can believe what I heard. Can anyone help?

TonyGosling

De Menezes family to sue as police escape charges
The family of Jean Charles de Menezes is to continue their legal battle by suing the Metropolitan police for damages for killing the Brazilian electrician, the Guardian has learned.
Yesterday the family were told that the two police marksmen who shot dead the innocent Brazilian after mistaking him for a terrorist will not face prosecution, despite a jury disbelieving key parts of their account of the killing.
In December a jury at the inquest into the killing returned an open verdict after hearing damning evidence of police blunders that led to the shooting.
He was killed on 22 July 2005 in a tube carriage by officers hunting for suicide bombers who had attacked London's transport network the previous day.
After the inquest, where the jury rejected the verdict of lawful killing, the Crown Prosecution Service decided to review its earlier decision that no individual officer should face criminal charge.
The CPS yesterday said its review had concluded and it believed that there was insufficient evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the two officers had lied in their accounts.
The family said it would not try to overturn the decision by the coroner not to allow the jury to consider a verdict of unlawful killing as it had previously threatened. But sources said the family would sue Scotland Yard for damages.
De Menezes' cousin, Vivian Figuierdo, said: "We condemn the CPS decision and reject the logic of their argument. The inquest put the truth out there for all the public to see, but the authorities want us to forget the truth to stop us getting justice. But we will never forget."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/14/jean-charles-de-menezes-case

dewstru · Suspended Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 61

Great news....and deserves it's own thread, not bolting onto a vagely related thread, no way! Confused

TonyGosling · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject:

De Menezes coroner critical of police 'corroboration' after Tube shooting

By Daily Mail Reporter 04th March 2009

The coroner who presided over the inquest into the death of Jean Charles de Menezes today criticised the 'stark difference' in the way police officers and civilians were treated after the shooting.

Sir Michael Wright highlighted a string of flaws at Scotland Yard after officers' accounts of the shooting were rejected last year.

His recommendations were sent to Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson and the Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith.

Sir Michael expressed his concern that officers were allowed to work on their accounts together 'for a period of many hours' after the shooting at Stockwell underground station in south London on July 22 2005.

He wrote: 'There was a stark difference between their experience and the treatment of civilians, who were required to give their accounts promptly and independently.

'Officers were not cross-examined on the basis that their evidence was the product of independent recollection.'.........

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1159214/De-Menezes-coroner-cri tical-police-corroboration-Tube-shooting.html

redadare · Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject:

What a hypocritical t*****!

He was the guy the allowed the inquest to make even more of a mockery than is usual. I read some of the transcripts and I can't remember the details, but he glossed over important evidence. He allowed police officers to give evidence unidentified. He allowed the fact that no one heard any police officer shout warnings and yet they all claimed they did, to pass without comment. The police control room was a shambles, and whoever was in charge, was not Cressida Dick, and he just let that pass. All the identification of JCM was a mockery and he allowed it!

WTF are these guys always wise and full of integrity after the event?

TonyGosling · Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:54 pm Post subject:

Smeone may well have been 'holding a gun' to the coroner's head.

Mind you I'd love to know how many coroners in the UK are also Freemasons.
They certainly have a unhealthy obsession with death, with the death rituals in their cult.

Moon-in-Taurus · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject:

Taking a Stand, Lana Vandenberghe interviewed by Fergal Keane
23 Dec 2008, BBC Radio 4.

I listened to this programme in December, it's no longer available.

I was deeply disturbed by Lana Vandenberghe's description of the young man's death as testified by witnesses whose statements she read.

She had been confused at first by the fairly small amount of blood on the floor of the carriage, in the photographs.
According to witness statements that she read, there was no warning, his arms were pinned behind his back and his head was forced down into a seat on the carriage.
It was in this position that he was shot.

http://www.bushywood.com/lana_vandenberghe_police_special_branch_terro rist_whistelblower.htm

http://www.ukwatch.net/article/leaks_and_official_secrets

scubadiver · Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:00 pm Post subject:

Officer who tampered with evidence is let off after found to be acting "naively".

Daily Mirror

TonyGosling · Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:12 am Post subject:

Another bad joke from the appointments people
This woman makes me sick - what do they have on her?
Cressida Dick promoted to be Met's top woman
Cressida Dick, the police chief in charge of the operation that led to the death of Jean Charles de Menezes, has been promoted to become Scotland Yard's highest ever ranking woman officer.

The 48-year-old has been appointed assistant commissioner - her second promotion since the shooting of the innocent Brazilian four years ago - and is now one of the most senior officers at the Metropolitan police.
Her new job, equivalent in rank to a provincial chief constable, carries a salary of £180,000 and covers the Met's murder and rape commands, as well as the complex political investigations....................
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/570112 0/Cressida-Dick-promoted-to-be-Mets-top-woman.html

redadare · Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:52 pm Post subject:

Mark Gobell · On Gardening Leave Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 4529

New Years honour for Cressida Dick.

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