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scienceplease 2
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 Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| truthseeker john wrote: | | truthseeker john wrote: | | Steel is cut by termite/thermate, not concrete floors - although it is possible to melt concrete, it would take longer because the concrete would be melting away from the heat of the termite or thermate source of heat. |
Let me clarify that. Concrete is not as good conductor of heat as steel is, so whereas concrete would melt on the surface with it not being a good conductor it wouldn't melt through as with steel. |
Sorry but I don't think the concrete is very relevant. From my examination of WTC tower's construction, concrete in WTC towers was just used on the floors and was not, as far as I'm aware, used to seal the steels beams or form any load bearing strength - just to make the floors rigid, provide sound proofing and some fire protection between floors. Therefore to bring the towers down you just needed to break the steel beams in the core and around the floor edges. Hence thermate's effect on concrete is not terribly relevant. If you have other information on the structure of the towers then I would be interested.
Last edited by scienceplease 2 on Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pugwash
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Paul wrote
| Quote: | | I must say I've reviewed this a hundred times, and it is quite clear, that the spire or, is it core?, does not fall behind a cloud of dust but converts, and not only from this shot, but from others |
Sorry to be a bit late in joining this debate, Although I haven't viewed the clip as many times, I do not concur with the above assertion. My interpretation is that at 0.16 secs. into the clip:- the spire is around 3 degrees from the perpendicular, the stress at (a possible weakened) pivotal base causes fracture. The initial failure would not be clean thus sheared girder base contacting with the remaining stub and possibly, other girders at the start of the decent causes the asbestos and any residual cement to be shaken off causing the dust cloud. This dust cloud maybe of heavy matter, but not as heavy as steel which continues its decent as that of the drop of a javelin through the dust. |
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scienceplease 2
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
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I agree with your point Pugwash.
Let's get back to the point of this post which is that the spire could not have existed in a gravitational collapse but is an artifact of CD. |
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truthseeker john
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Location: Yorkshire
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| scienceplease 2 wrote: | | truthseeker john wrote: | | truthseeker john wrote: | | Steel is cut by termite/thermate, not concrete floors - although it is possible to melt concrete, it would take longer because the concrete would be melting away from the heat of the termite or thermate source of heat. |
Let me clarify that. Concrete is not as good conductor of heat as steel is, so whereas concrete would melt on the surface with it not being a good conductor it wouldn't melt through as with steel. |
Sorry but I don't think the concrete is very relevant. From my examination of WTC tower's construction, concrete in WTC towers was just used on the floors and was not, as far as I'm aware, used to seal the steels beams or form any load bearing strength - just to make the floors rigid, provide sound proofing and some fire protection between floors. Therefore to bring the towers down you just needed to break the steel beams in the core and around the floor edges. Hence thermate's effect on concrete is not terribly relevant. If you have other information on the structure of the towers then I would be interested. |
Sorry if I misunderstood what you previously said. I was responding to: | scienceplease 2 wrote: | | .... the spire was strong enough to support itself - it should have been dragged down by the floors it was supporting. Except that the floors had to have been cut away eg by thermite! |
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scienceplease 2
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| truthseeker john wrote: |
Sorry if I misunderstood what you previously said. I was responding to: | scienceplease 2 wrote: | | .... the spire was strong enough to support itself - it should have been dragged down by the floors it was supporting. Except that the floors had to have been cut away eg by thermite! |
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Sure, I just meant floor beams not the floor concrete. Thanks for responding. |
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truthseeker john
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| scienceplease 2 wrote: | I agree with your point Pugwash.
Let's get back to the point of this post which is that the spire could not have existed in a gravitational collapse but is an artifact of CD. |
It was wobbling, so how come it came down vertically - appearing to turn into dust? And why did it come down at all, after the building had come down?
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"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish." - Euripides
"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it." - Albert Einstein
"To find yourself, think for yourself" - Socrates |
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QuitTheirClogs
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Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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The key significance I see in the spire is that it demonstrates the falsity of the crush-down (pile-driver) theory. There are a lot of other things wrong with the pile-driver theory (Newton’s third law and all that), but it would be impossible for the pile-driver to remain intact all the way to the ground, whilst leaving part of the core standing.
The only other “official” theory is the pancake collapse – and that can be demolished by an eight-year old kid with a lego set. The core would be left standing!
So there has been no theory proposed – other than controlled demolition – which accounts for the visual evidence of the core collapse.
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Simon - http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/
David Ray Griffin - 9/11: the Myth & the Reality
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SHERITON HOTEL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| BIG QUESTION:Have the official CT zealots ever produced the maths that explain the three WTC collapses in a coefficient formula and shown this universal constant in action pre and post 9/11 with other structural failure gravity building collapses that square with the comparable 'collapse' incongruously small seismic readings at GZ? |
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scienceplease 2
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| SHERITON HOTEL wrote: | | BIG QUESTION:Have the official CT zealots ever produced the maths that explain the three WTC collapses in a coefficient formula and shown this universal constant in action pre and post 9/11 with other structural failure gravity building collapses that square with the comparable 'collapse' incongruously small seismic readings at GZ? |
Bazant produced a paper to attempt to explain the twin towers collapse. It used a "crush down" theory: the weight of the top block had enough Potential Energy (pe=mgh) to initiate complete destruction of the towers. He also used an obscure rule of thumb from the mining industry, the theory of comminution, which he had extrapolated way beyond its use in explosions for open cast mining, to explain the dust and it fine size.
Bazant has not address WTC7.
As you say, there has not been any natural collapses even remote like 9/11's skyscrapers in any war, any earthquake, any fire. Three UNIQUE events... all in one day. How about that!?  |
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