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Micpsi
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Joined: 13 Feb 2007
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 Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Wibble wrote: | | Micpsi wrote: | | Wibble wrote: | | Quote: | | Politicians, media stories and police stories. |
So when it really comes down to it you are just chosing not to believe the evidence becasue it suits you. You have no genuine reason to doubt the evidence except for you assume it must be lies. Great argument and sadly typical of the majority of "Truthers". |
So when it really comes down to it, you are just choosing to believe the evidence because it suits you. You have no genuine reason to believe the evidence except for you (to) assume it must be true. Great argument and sadly typical of the majority of mindless "Believers." |
What? The evidence has been presented in a legitimate manner by legitimate people. If you have any real proof it is false then challenge in a court of law. If a return ticket and a train timetable is your only evidence then dont be surprised if people dont accept your view that it is a conspiracy.
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Of course it is not the only evidence. There's a whole raft of anomalies and contradictions between what witnesses said and the official story that strongly indicates conspiracy. Cherry-picking just one or two in order to debunk them and then pretending no others exist is just a piece of sophistry that should fool no one. |
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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About 11 months for you to reply and thats all you have got?
Please list some of these alleged anomalies and we will see who is cherry picking what? |
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TonyGosling
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Micpsi
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fish5133
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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ref photo of hole in carriage floor. Trying to evaluate picture but it doesnt IMO look like debris pointing upwards to suggest bomb beneath carriage. Presume photo is taken inside carriage
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"for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world, against wicked spirits in high places " Eph.6 v 12 |
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Chi_of_life
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Micpsi
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Joined: 13 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| fish5133 wrote: | | ref photo of hole in carriage floor. Trying to evaluate picture but it doesnt IMO look like debris pointing upwards to suggest bomb beneath carriage. Presume photo is taken inside carriage |
The surviving witness himself said that metal in the floor was bent upwards. Read again my earlier quote of his statement. Also notice the piece of jagged metal pointing upwards on the left. |
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Micpsi
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Chi_of_life wrote: | Nick Kollerstrom is a very interesting guy. With some fascinating views.
I had a talk with once and he will be speaking more about these anomalies on Tuesday the 30 June at the Conway Hall... not to be missed.
Conway Hall, Red Lion Square, nr Holborn tube. |
Nick was a good friend of mine when we were undergraduates at Cambridge University. I respect his research into 7/7. |
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uselesseater
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 629
Location: Leeds
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:47 am Post subject: |
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"I and thousands like me are forsaking everything for what we believe. Our drive and motivation doesn't come from tangible commodities that this world has to offer. Our religion is Islam, obedience to the one true God and following the footsteps of the final prophet messenger.
Your democratically elected governments continuously perpetuate atrocities against my people all over the world. And your support of them makes you directly responsible, just as I am directly responsible for protecting and avenging my Muslim brothers and sisters.
Until we feel security you will be our targets and until you stop the bombing, gassing, imprisonment and torture of my people we will not stop this fight. We are at war and I am a soldier. Now you too will taste the reality of this situation."
This text from a so called martyrdom video makes no reference to martyrdom, or blowing oneself up put in simple terms.
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uselesseater
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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Location: Leeds
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Micpsi wrote: | | fish5133 wrote: | | ref photo of hole in carriage floor. Trying to evaluate picture but it doesnt IMO look like debris pointing upwards to suggest bomb beneath carriage. Presume photo is taken inside carriage |
The surviving witness himself said that metal in the floor was bent upwards. Read again my earlier quote of his statement. Also notice the piece of jagged metal pointing upwards on the left. |
Yes he did say that but more importantly, the Policeman said 'that's where the bomb was'
But because Mr Lait's account of what he saw and what the policeman said doesn't fit with the official conspiracy theory we can disregard it. 
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sam
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| fish5133 wrote: | | ref photo of hole in carriage floor. Trying to evaluate picture but it doesnt IMO look like debris pointing upwards to suggest bomb beneath carriage. Presume photo is taken inside carriage |
Agreed. It looks like the floor has been blasted downwards, exposing some metal framework that was previously hidden.
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Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good. |
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
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Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="TonyGosling"]How about
1) Exercise based on identical tube stations
2) Government train times shown to be wrong
3) Unexplained report of pre bomb warning, denied at press conference by Brian Paddick
4) Strange appeaance of extra bombs in car in Luton Car Park
5) Absence of expected evidence from CCTV
6) Eyewitness reports alleged bomber Hasib Hussein was not on the bus
7) Public Enquiry de rigeur for multiple suspicious deaths like this - see Coroners Act - still diddley-squat
need I go on?
[quote]
You need to back this up. One line statements/questions are almost meaningless. So yes, you need to go on. |
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Frazzel
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 480
Location: the beano
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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wibble
the fact that the police got the train times wrong shows how they were complacent and were not interested in a proper enquiry or investigation.
how irresponible of them when people had died.
ask yourself why the police did not do a proper SOC scene of crimes investigation?
if a loved one of mine had died on that day i would be hopping mad that they couldnt even b e bothered to get the times of the trains right.
also tha fact that tony blair said to have a proper investigation was a ludicrous diversion!!
it may be for him but not for the rest of us who want to know how it happened.
Also how come Netanyahu got a warning minutes before the first bomb went off not to to go to bishopsgate. We londoners didnt get any warning.
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | if a loved one of mine had died on that day i would be hopping mad that they couldnt even b e bothered to get the times of the trains right |
So please tell me what percentage of the loved ones and victims have question the report and have joined the truth movement?
A c*** up on train times does not prove a conspiracy!! Until you prove other wise its just a c*** up. Humans make mistakes you know. |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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The narrative says ......
| Quote: | The London King’s Cross train leaves Luton station. There are
conflicting accounts of their behaviour on the train. Some witnesses
report noisy conversations, another believes he saw 2 of them
standing silently by a set of train doors. The 4 stood out a bit from
usual commuters due to their luggage and casual clothes, but not
enough to cause suspicion. This was the beginning of the summer
tourist period and Luton Station serves Luton Airport. |
This implicitly implies that the police/authorities spoke to several witnesses who saw the alleged bombers on the train. Presumably these unnamed witnesses would have been asked and would have been able to confirm which train they caught that morning including any delays and cancellations. And yet the information of the train cancellation and a wide spread debate surrounding its implications was in the public domain months prior to the narrative's release.
So it is not just the c***-up of the unnamed author of the official narrative that needs to be explained away but how this occured. You would assume that the author based their account on the Metropolitan police who in turn would have based it on eye-witness interviews. How did the police and these eye-witnesses 'c***-up' when it was in fact the police that notified the home office of their 'c***-up'? If the author did not rely on the police and their interviews with eye-witnesses, just what did the author base his or her account on?
Sure in life human's make mistakes, but if they are genuine mistakes they are usually very simply explained away. No one at the home office has adequately explained how this 'c***-up' occured. |
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Micpsi
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Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| uselesseater wrote: | | Micpsi wrote: | | fish5133 wrote: | | ref photo of hole in carriage floor. Trying to evaluate picture but it doesnt IMO look like debris pointing upwards to suggest bomb beneath carriage. Presume photo is taken inside carriage |
The surviving witness himself said that metal in the floor was bent upwards. Read again my earlier quote of his statement. Also notice the piece of jagged metal pointing upwards on the left. |
Yes he did say that but more importantly, the Policeman said 'that's where the bomb was'
But because Mr Lait's account of what he saw and what the policeman said doesn't fit with the official conspiracy theory we can disregard it. |
Use some logic for a change. The policeman's statement was merely an inference based upon a presupposed scenario of a bomb exploding INSIDE the train carriage, whereas the witness's statement was first-hand observation.
Now, in a court of law, just who is the jury going to prefer to believe?
I rest my case, m'lud. |
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paul wright
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Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I've had a harsh word or two for Nick in the past, but must admit his book is fine thorough and conclusive - as far as can be |
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| ian neal wrote: |
Sure in life human's make mistakes, but if they are genuine mistakes they are usually very simply explained away. No one at the home office has adequately explained how this 'c***-up' occured. |
Have you written to them to ask for an explanation?
Regardless, this is still not proof of a conspiracy. The eye witness accounts, DNA etc from the damaged carriages and bus prove the bombers were there.
All the pictures of the bomb damage I have seen clearly show large dents in the floors which would not have happened if the bombs were below the floor. As always, the Truthers are picking and choosing the evidence the believe/see to fit the conspiracy angle. |
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paul wright
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Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Wibble wrote: | | ian neal wrote: |
Sure in life human's make mistakes, but if they are genuine mistakes they are usually very simply explained away. No one at the home office has adequately explained how this 'c***-up' occured. |
Have you written to them to ask for an explanation?
Regardless, this is still not proof of a conspiracy. The eye witness accounts, DNA etc from the damaged carriages and bus prove the bombers were there.
All the pictures of the bomb damage I have seen clearly show large dents in the floors which would not have happened if the bombs were below the floor. As always, the Truthers are picking and choosing the evidence the believe/see to fit the conspiracy angle. |
Large dents? The angles of the pictures, 1 or 2?, make it impossible to verify upward or downward. Downward from TATP would be hard to achieve through homemade bombs- the line of least resistance would be sought by the pressure of the explosive blast. Looks to me that in the photo(s) there is upturned metal. Perhaps easier to achieve through military grade explosives. This latter still wouldn't explain the implosion of windows in carriages
The eye witness accounts are non-existent as far as the Tube is concerned, and the DNA evidence is equally fallacious, dependent only on assertion |
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| paul wright wrote: |
Large dents? The angles of the pictures, 1 or 2?, make it impossible to verify upward or downward. Downward from TATP would be hard to achieve through homemade bombs- the line of least resistance would be sought by the pressure of the explosive blast. Looks to me that in the photo(s) there is upturned metal. Perhaps easier to achieve through military grade explosives. This latter still wouldn't explain the implosion of windows in carriages
The eye witness accounts are non-existent as far as the Tube is concerned, and the DNA evidence is equally fallacious, dependent only on assertion |
So you are saying there is no dent on this picture? You cant see the floor slopping down into the hole?
http://lege.net/blog.lege.net/financialoutrage.org.uk/images/Bomb-unde rneath-floor.jpg
The black bit on the left sticking up looks like plastic and light thin stuff like that is bound flail about. You can also see a dent and downward bend in one of the support beams that runs left to right. You can even see where blood has run down and out through the hole.
Get your blinkers off!!
PS Assuming the DNA evidence is fake is a very, very, very weak argument.
EDIT: Link fixed
Last edited by Wibble on Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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paul wright
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Joined: 26 Sep 2005
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Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:11 am Post subject: |
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That's a bad link
I know the picture you're referring to |
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| paul wright wrote: | That's a bad link
I know the picture you're referring to |
and??????
Link was cut and paste from further up the page and hopefully works now. |
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paul wright
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Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Most of the little primary evidence from witnesses at the time refer to upwards shards of metal and imploding windows |
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paul wright
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Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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The picture link works again , but I've a feeling there is a better picture
Still why would the official story be proved right? Explosive force will always take the line of least resistance. Backpacks will blow out everything around them but shouldn't have the power to blow the floor before they take the roof off |
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, what qualification in explosives do you have? If nothing you are purely speculating based only on the fact you do not believe the official story.
How can a bomb underneath the floor dent the floor downwards? |
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paul wright
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Wibble
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Wibble
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Please answer my question?
That new photo does not prove it one way or the other. |
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sam
Wrecker
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 343
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| paul wright wrote: | | Explosive force will always take the line of least resistance. Backpacks will blow out everything around them but shouldn't have the power to blow the floor before they take the roof off |
This is the most appalling nonsense.
Try exploding a small device on the palm of your hand if you're so confident. Or explain why a landmine or other explosive detonated on the surface leaves a crater.
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Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good. |
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jesussdad
Banned
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| sam wrote: | | paul wright wrote: | | Explosive force will always take the line of least resistance. Backpacks will blow out everything around them but shouldn't have the power to blow the floor before they take the roof off |
This is the most appalling nonsense.
Try exploding a small device on the palm of your hand if you're so confident. Or explain why a landmine or other explosive detonated on the surface leaves a crater. |
i used to make dummy landmines for the army training and i know that they are placed up to 1 ft underground which would obviously make a crater.
your second point gives no reference to explosive types . which have varying outcomes . or surdace types of varying strength and density .
anyway the conspiracy argument doesnt rely on this one issue which could possibly be a diversion from the bigger picture |
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paul wright
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Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| jesussdad wrote: | | sam wrote: | | paul wright wrote: | | Explosive force will always take the line of least resistance. Backpacks will blow out everything around them but shouldn't have the power to blow the floor before they take the roof off |
This is the most appalling nonsense.
Try exploding a small device on the palm of your hand if you're so confident. Or explain why a landmine or other explosive detonated on the surface leaves a crater. |
i used to make dummy landmines for the army training and i know that they are placed up to 1 ft underground which would obviously make a crater.
your second point gives no reference to explosive types . which have varying outcomes . or surdace types of varying strength and density .
anyway the conspiracy argument doesnt rely on this one issue which could possibly be a diversion from the bigger picture |
Yes, thanks jesussdad (I think) I don't think skin and flesh and even bone offer much resistance to explosive force. Unlike rigid metal surfaces
My point about the roof is that it's mainly just a covering, whereas the floor needs to be a lot stronger to support weight and to maintain attachment between the carriage and the means of locomotion
Doesn't require a physics degree as is often argued, just a common sense understanding of how the physical world is |
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