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Chi_of_life
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 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:53 am Post subject: |
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We will be screening this BBC documentary.
6.30pm meet at Tuesday Conway Hall, Red Lion Square,
1. N. Kollerstrom
2. We Are Change's Andy B's and his associates unmasking
3. BBC documentary + Q & A
Entry fee £5 -
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Prole
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:19 am Post subject: |
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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kbo234
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: |
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What is this supposed to mean?
This is where 9/11 and 7/7 truth inevitably ends up. We are obviously infiltrated by the intelligence services. They wouldn't be doing their jobs if they were not intimately involved in leading the 'opposition'.
So here we have different activists accusing each other of working for 'the other side'.
Hmm.
Well, Maud'Dib is definitely genuine. he might be wrong. he might be nuts....but no way is he an 'agent'.
I know Nick kollestrom. Not well, but well enough, I think, to be certain that he is a genuine individual. A real truth seeker. he might be wrong on this and that but he is no 'fraud'.
Personally, I'd say the same about David Shayler. he used to blurt out just about every thought that passed through his brain. he was far too uncontrolled (we all know about his love for the weed) to be a calculating imposter. His latest incarnation, deluded though he might be, confirms his independence from his erstwhile paymasters, in my opinion.
On everything else I'm (like most others, I'm sure) agnostic.
We are all watching carefully but it is a sad (if inevitable) business. |
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TonyGosling
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Prole
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Ha ha, who'd have thunk it, precisely what I knew Tristan Quinn would focus on, the Messiah and 7/7 Rip-Off Effect. Watch the video clip for a taste of the superciliousness of the commentator:
| Quote: | In the absence of a public inquiry into the 7 July bombings, conspiracy theories have filled the vacuum. One of the more inflammatory involves a man hiding behind an Arabic-sounding pseudonym taken from a sci-fi film, says the BBC's Mike Rudin.
Video
Tracking down the man behind 7/7 Ripple Effect
The 56-minute homemade documentary opens with a view from space and the words: "A message from Muad Dib".
What follows is a stream of allegations about the 2005 bomb attack on London. The film, entitled 7/7 Ripple Effect, accuses former prime minister Tony Blair, the government, the police and the British and Israeli security service of murdering the innocent people who died that day, in order to shore up support for the "war on terror".
FIND OUT MORE...
The Conspiracy Files 7/7 is broadcast on BBC Two on Tuesday 30 June at 2100 BST
Or catch up using the iPlayer
The video has become an internet hit, hailed by conspiracy theorists and picked up by some Muslims in the UK as evidence that the official account of what happened that day is untrue.
The official version says four British Muslims blew themselves up in the UK's first suicide attacks, murdering 52 people and injuring 784 others.
But it took nearly a year for the official account to be published, and much of the evidence, such as CCTV and photographs, only came out slowly afterwards.
In that atmosphere conspiracy theories have flourished. A host of internet films now claim the government account is a deception.
The film mixes real footage and content from the internet
7/7 Ripple Effect, released two years after the attacks, goes much further than just posing questions.
The narrator alleges the four men blamed for the bombings were in fact fall guys in a government plot to win support for the war on terror; they were tricked into travelling to London with rucksacks on that day.
CCTV that shows them arriving in London was supposedly just to incriminate them. The film claims that they were not on the trains that blew up.
It's alleged the three men blamed for the Tube bombings were in fact murdered by police at Canary Wharf, after government agents set off pre-planted explosives to frame them.
'Unbelievable' coincidence
Muad Dib's conspiracy video has been picked up and held up as truth. A copy of his film was sent to a survivor of the attacks and to the Chairman of the Birmingham Central Mosque, Dr Mohammed Naseem.
He has long harboured doubts about the government account. "The Ripple Effect is more convincing than the government statement," he says.
Dr Naseem made 2,000 copies of 7/7 Ripple Effect for the mosque. At Friday prayers he asked the congregation to raise their hands if they did not accept the government version - nearly the entire gathering did.
Muad Dib hangs much of his conspiracy theory on the fact that on 7 July 2005, there was a mock exercise preparing for a possible terror attack on the London underground, with a very similar scenario to what happened - three London stations. This he describes as "an unbelievable set of circumstances".
If people in mosques think the government is so antagonistic that they're willing to frame them for a monstrous crime, what does that do to levels of trust?
7/7 survivor Rachel North
But Peter Power, a former Scotland Yard police officer, says on 7 July, the exercise he ran was office-based and involved just six people from a publishing company.
That has not stopped him receiving hate mail from anonymous sceptics accusing him of "murder" and threatening "justice" with "no mercy".
Muad Dib did not send Peter Power a copy of 7/7 Ripple Effect, but when it was showed it to him, he found it "quite menacing [and] quite worrying".
He has now passed the DVD and the threatening e-mails to the Metropolitan Police. But Mr Power was frustrated because of the difficulty of prosecuting someone who hides behind a cloak of anonymity.
The Conspiracy Files 7/7, a BBC documentary, tracked Muad Dib down, eventually finding him in the small town of Kells in Ireland. He is in fact John Hill, from Sheffield.
His alias, Muad Dib, is a fictional character in the science fiction film Dune, a film about inter-galactic freedom fighting, from which he seems to draw inspiration.
Dune has been interpreted as an allegory for the Middle East
Clips from the film - including the quote "The sleeper must awaken" - appear in 7/7 Ripple Effect.
Frank Herbert's series of Dune novels use Islamic concepts like "jihad" and other terms based on Arabic.
A document on Muad Dib's website reveals he believes he is the Messiah and that George Lucas wrote Star Wars after being told telepathically what to write, by the very "Force" to which the films refer.
John Hill has now been arrested and is facing extradition to the UK on a charge of perverting the course of justice for sending DVDs of 7/7 Ripple Effect to the judge and jury foreman in a trial linked to the attacks.
This hasn't stopped his film. Alex Jones, who runs an internet site and a US radio show devoted to conspiracy theories, claims that 7/7 Ripple Effect has been "just exploding all over the web" since Hills' arrest.
A bus was blown up in Tavistock Square
There have been two official reports into the bombing by the Intelligence and Security Committee. The government has always resisted calls for an independent public inquiry, and has decided not to actively counter conspiracy theories.
But there is concern that conspiracy theories are divisive and could alienate Muslims from the authorities. The former Metropolitan Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Brian Paddick, says action is needed to prevent further atrocities.
"Hopefully there will be people in the police service, the security service and in government who will realise how important conspiracy theories are. And how important it is… that every attempt is made to try and counteract them."
Rachel North, a survivor of the 7 July bombings, is troubled by the acceptance of conspiracy theories.
"If people in mosques think that the government is so antagonistic towards them that they're actually willing to frame them for a monstrous crime they didn't commit, what does that do to levels of trust? That is a problem for the government and for everybody in this country."
Mike Rudin is series producer of The Conspiracy Files 7/7
BBC Magazine |
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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TonyGosling
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Prole
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Of course it will be a pile of junk Tony, what is it you have on your front page oh yeah Wake Up!, about time you took your own advice.
Nice link to the stable door btw.
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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illeagalhunter
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Peter Power poor thing everybody hates him , still didnt say who the drills were for |
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Prole
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| illeagalhunter wrote: | | Peter Power poor thing everybody hates him , still didnt say who the drills were for |
He did, Reed Elsevier.
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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numeral
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| illeagalhunter wrote: | | Peter Power poor thing everybody hates him , still didnt say who the drills were for |
Hi illeagalhunter, you owe me £1,000,000.
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Prole
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Not quite a full house, but nearly:
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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illeagalhunter
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| numeral wrote: | | illeagalhunter wrote: | | Peter Power poor thing everybody hates him , still didnt say who the drills were for |
Hi illeagalhunter, you owe me £1,000,000. |
do you have paypal  |
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GodSaveTheTeam
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| GodSaveTheTeam wrote: | If they leave out material such as the Panorama show from '04, which predicts the same scenario as 7/7 "almost precisely" and Giuliani being in London on the very same day, that will be very suspect indeed.
Two staggering "coincidences" that the coincidence theorists like to brush aside.
The programme will no doubt be of a debunking nature. |
My suspicions were indeed proven correct.
Yep, the 'debunking' special from the Beeb started off by saying that it was going to see if the Conspiracy Theories stand up to scrutiny instead of asking...dun dun duuun! - if the official story stands up to scrutiny...
Imagine the BBC Conspiracy Files drafting meetings for every show they do. There they are sat around the table with notepads and 'research' when someone pipes up and says...
"So come on guys, when are we gonna put the Anti-Semitic angle into this episode." |
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Youroom101
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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The BBC propaganda is well polished in the program; 7/7 conspiracy debunking program. I wasn't expecting anything else out of them, but I was pessimistic about the way they would destroy any credibility the truth movement had. One thing it does is show how guilty they are because after watching the program all they came up with was character assassination and other below the belt tactics, but the truth of the conspiracy facts are still left untouched, showing to me how desperate they are getting.
Unfortunately giving DVD out on the street on the seventh is going to be more difficult but it should make us all more determined.
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TonyGosling
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paul wright
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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A complete disgrace as expected. So pleased I ended up on the cutting room floor
Largely a prosecution case against John Hill/Muad'Dib in advance if you read the language and description. Really ought to be enough to have his deportation case thrown out. Shame on yer Quinn. A most appalling propagandist programme as expected. The language, somebody will surely go back through that
Truth activists are now being moved in to the terrorist category
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Light Infantree
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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I thought it was interesting to see how the 'conclusions' of the programme were leading the viewer into actually seeing the 'conspiracy theorist's' as people who must now be officially feared. Comments from the police chapster in the Dragons Den type room were imo suggesting that the authorities are viewing 'these people' as a threat to security. (or at least ensure that the collective see this as the case.
Nothing new for most of us here with that, but to see a genuine attempt at this kind of auto-suggestion tells me that there is a change of gear. Has the Conspiracy Nutter now officially become the Subversive?
More important than ever to know ones truth!
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It's not about terror, its about illusion. It's not about war, it's about you
Stop worrying, take risks
Be brave
The revolution has been cancelled - its an evolution and everyone's included |
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paul wright
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Light Infantree wrote: | I thought it was interesting to see how the 'conclusions' of the programme were leading the viewer into actually seeing the 'conspiracy theorist's' as people who must now be officially feared. Comments from the police chapster in the Dragons Den type room were imo suggesting that the authorities are viewing 'these people' as a threat to security. (or at least ensure that the collective see this as the case.
Nothing new for most of us here with that, but to see a genuine attempt at this kind of auto-suggestion tells me that there is a change of gear. Has the Conspiracy Nutter now officially become the Subversive?
More important than ever to know ones truth! |
Yup. What I was trying to say.
We are now, according to the BBC official tenet, DANGEROUS
If you go back through the commentary to this programme, this is the only inference you can draw
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paul wright
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TonyGosling
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xmasdale
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Light Infantree wrote: | I thought it was interesting to see how the 'conclusions' of the programme were leading the viewer into actually seeing the 'conspiracy theorist's' as people who must now be officially feared. Comments from the police chapster in the Dragons Den type room were imo suggesting that the authorities are viewing 'these people' as a threat to security. (or at least ensure that the collective see this as the case.
Nothing new for most of us here with that, but to see a genuine attempt at this kind of auto-suggestion tells me that there is a change of gear. Has the Conspiracy Nutter now officially become the Subversive?
More important than ever to know ones truth! |
Yes, I think that is an important change of gear on the Ghandi principle of
first they ignore you
then they ridicule you
then they attack you
then you win.
Muad Dib's imprisonment represents an attack. We should be ready for more of this if we are now regarded as dangerous. |
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Chi_of_life
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Prole wrote: | Not quite a full house, but nearly:
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Nick and Maud Dib caught it!
The BBC tried to bury my eye-witness testimony The 4th bomb by wheeling in 'Peter Jones'
but most people know how many times his story changed in the days following 7/7.
It was intersting to watch though as I was the first person they initially approached in 2007,
before J7 passed on hearing Rachel was involved leaving poor old Nick to get martyred.
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TonyGosling
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Prole
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Daniel Obachike wrote: | It was intersting to watch though as I was the first person they initially approached in 2007,
before J7 passed on hearing Rachel was involved leaving poor old Nick to get martyred. |
It's these lies of yours Daniel that leave you with no credibility whatsoever.
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numeral
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Daniel Obachike wrote:
| Quote: | | The BBC tried to bury my eye-witness testimony The 4th bomb by wheeling in 'Peter Jones' but most people know how many times his story changed in the days following 7/7. |
"Peter Jones, situated in Sloane Square, at the end of Chelsea's King's Road, offers 7 floors of the best in fashion, home and technology, along with free ..."
Advertising is not allowed on this forum.
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TonyGosling
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TonyGosling
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Prole
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | Prole, where's your decorum?
Can you provide us with the evidence if Daniel really is lying as you say.
| Prole wrote: |
It's these lies of yours Daniel that leave you with no credibility whatsoever. |
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Tony, we very clearly gave the reasons why we would not collaborate with the State Broadcasting Corporation and Rachel certainly had nothing to do with it.
As for evidence, you never ask for evidence from Daniel re: MOD accusations, you're a sad joke Gosling.
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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Prole
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:06 am Post subject: |
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What did you think would be achieved by facilitating Tristan Quinn setting up Dr Naseem and Birmingham Mosque goers just for the sake of his pathetic programme?
| Quote: | Chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque should quit over 7/7 bombings row says MP
Jul 5 2009 by Adam Aspinall, Sunday Mercury
A LEADING Muslim MP has called for the chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque to resign after the cleric suggested the July 7 London bombings were a Government conspiracy.
Dr Mohammed Naseem’s inflammatory views were exposed after he distributed thousands of copies of the conspiracy film 7/7 Ripple Effect to worshippers at the Mosque.
Birmingham MP Khalid Mahmood last night insisted that Naseem should quit his high-profile role for insulting the memory of the 52 people who died in terror attacks on the capital’s transport network four years ago.
The 7/7 Ripple Effect film argues that the Government planned the suicide bombings to incite hatred against British Muslims.
The film was produced by John Hill, a conspiracy theorist from Sheffield, who now lives in Ireland.
Hill, who believes he is the second coming of Christ, is now facing extradition to the UK on a charge of perverting the course of justice for sending the DVD to the judge in a trial linked to the attacks.
When confronted by the Sunday Mercury, Dr Naseem initially denied he believed in the conspiracy, and said that a documentary about the “Ripple Effect” theory aired last week had misrepresented him.
But when pressed, the 83-year-old told our reporter that he DOES think the Government has something to hide.
“I’ve never said it was a Government conspiracy – it astounds me that people think that,” Dr Naseem said. “But I do believe the Government’s response to the bombings was flawed and does not make sense.
“The police and the politicians are not to be trusted so I believe that the conspiracy could be true.
“People have lost trust in the Government – just look at the expenses scandal.
“I believe we need to open an inquiry into the bombings in the same way that the Iraq inquiry has been set up.
“I do not believe the Government’s version of events.
“The intelligence service only provides one source of information when everybody knows that you have to corroborate it with a second source, which they did not.
“The Government got their facts wrong as well. They said the bombers got on a train which they did not, because it was cancelled.
“Anybody can prove anything they want with footage these days. They can add computer-generated effects – so we cannot trust any CCTV. I am not alone in this and I think 90 per cent of Muslims in Birmingham agree with me.
“I would say to the Government if they don’t have anything to hide, then hold a public inquiry.
“If they don’t have anything to hide, then they will do it.
“We don’t care if we are offending people.
“We think that people are being hyper-sensitive about this issue and do not think that people are willing to listen to us.”
The Sunday Mercury can also reveal that Dr Naseem’s Mosque received a portion of a £2.4 million grant as part of the Government’s Preventing Violent Extremism Pathfinder Fund (PVE) project.
Birmingham City Council has been at the forefront of PVE trials after intelligence sources claimed that the city was a major recruiting base for al-Qaida.
Dr Naseem’s comments come just two days before the fourth anniversary of the July 7 atrocity, which was carried out by British-born suicide bombers Mohammad Sidique Khan, aged 30, Shehzad Tanweer, aged 22, Germaine Lindsay, aged 19, and Hasib Mir Hussain, aged 18.
Last night Dr Naseem’s remarks were met with disgust by Muslim community leaders, including Mr Mahmood and Respect party leader and Birmingham City councillor Salma Yaqoob.
Mr Mahmood, MP for Perry Barr, said: “This conspiracy is just complete and utter nonsense.
“If anyone had any facts to prove it I would be the first one to take them to Parliament.
“But they don’t, because it isn’t true.
“Dr Naseem has peddled preposterous nonsense like this time and time again, and this time he has gone too far.
“All he is doing is inciting hatred among the community and bringing the Muslims of Birmingham into disrepute. A person in his position should think twice before coming out with such disgraceful lies.
“I think it is time for him to resign.
“The trustees of Birmingham Central Mosque should take action immediately if they want to be taken seriously in the future.
“His outrageous comments couldn’t have come at a more sensitive time and are sure to be incredibly hurtful to the relatives of the victims.”
Coun Yaqoob added: “We do not need conspiracy theories to understand the 7/7 bombings.
“Two of the bombers left video messages explaining exactly why they carried out this terrible atrocity.
“The Government may be in denial about the fact that its war in Iraq encouraged terrorism at home but we have to face facts.
“Four young men, angry at our Government’s foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan, lost any sense of humanity and inflicted terrible suffering on innocent people.
“We have to confront and challenge those who justify and encourage these crimes, and we have to put an end to the injustice caused by our foreign policy that creates such a well of bitterness and hatred.” |
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'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK |
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Pugwash
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Methinks, not all bad. In itself, true it didn't wake many sheepies happy to fed on media opinion, however the more they squeal shock, horror the more it persuades debate at a local level and stir interest to investigate further. And, what is the alternative? keep schtum, content with being one of privileged few privy to esoteric knowledge.
Perhaps you can give a follow up on the Sunday Mercury reader's comments. As to community leaders messrs, Mr Mahmood and Salma Yaqoob. I'm sure their community gives more respect to Dr Naseem than the views of tainted politicians. |
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