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Indymedia Newswire Post - provocateur within?
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flamesong
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject: Indymedia Newswire Post - provocateur within? Reply with quote

The following has appeared as a newswire post on Indymedia - as it is extremely critical of the UK 9/11 Truth Movement it is not particularly surprising that it remains unhidden:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/07/345958.html

The Trojan Horse of Activism - British 9/11 “Truth” Movement
Shelly Doman | 24.07.2006 19:18 | London

Founded by Freemasons with the intention of creating a political party, the “British 9/11 Truth Movement” actively aims to collect all forms of ‘truth seeker’ together under the control of one governing body. Using vicious attacks on those who refuse to agree or work with the group they are exposing their true nature to those of us with our eyes open.

Many activist groups are aware of the infiltration of our movements however those who aim to destroy us have upped their game in recent months.

Under the guise of ‘activism’ a new breed of control has emerged within the British Isles bent on fighting, alienating and discrediting those who are trying to make positive changed in the world around them. Here I will show the techniques being used by this group.

Founded by Freemasons with the intention of creating a political party, the “British 9/11 Truth Movement” actively aims to collect all forms of ‘truth seeker’ together under the control of one governing body. Using vicious attacks on those who refuse to agree or work with the group they are exposing their true nature to those of us with our eyes open.

Examples:

Harassment of July Seven London Bombing survivor Rachel North which involved heckling her public speeches, constant calls to her work place and her family members. They have now taken to publicly labelling Rachel North as a “shill”, “MI5 agent” or government operative. The fact Rachel North is the most prominent campaigner for an independent inquiry into last years attacks have conveniently slipped the collective mind of the British 9-11 Truth Movement.

David Shayler is connected and supports the efforts of the group, an ex MI5 agent who is rumoured to be currently working for British intelligence. No labels or attacks have been nor will be tolerated against Shayler.

Jon Ronson has recently been b****** for simply asking questions on the message board. When a mainstream reporter considers the alternative story of 9-11 to be worth investigating, he too is immediately labelled a “shill” and suspected of ‘working for the other team’ merely because of his race. The aim here is to create the impression that all activists are small minded racists who would prefer to remain under the radar than get our message to a wider audience.

Again let me clarify, Ronson only asked questions and did not make any assumptions.

The Indymedia Summer of Truth has been ignored by the British 9-11 Truth Movement. Why?

Surely we are on the same team? No. The British 9-11 Movement demand action and events follow their guidelines, and profit margins or no support is offered.
Shelly Doman
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kookomula
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Added a reply to piece on Indymedia.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Indymedia Newswire Post - provocateur within? Reply with quote

Flamesong wrote:
The following has appeared as a newswire post on Indymedia - as it is extremely critical of the UK 9/11 Truth Movement it is not particularly surprising that it remains unhidden:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/07/345958.html

The Trojan Horse of Activism - British 9/11 “Truth” Movement
Shelly Doman | 24.07.2006 19:18 | London

Founded by Freemasons with the intention of creating a political party, the “British 9/11 Truth Movement” actively aims to collect all forms of ‘truth seeker’ together under the control of one governing body. Using vicious attacks on those who refuse to agree or work with the group they are exposing their true nature to those of us with our eyes open.

Many activist groups are aware of the infiltration of our movements however those who aim to destroy us have upped their game in recent months.

Under the guise of ‘activism’ a new breed of control has emerged within the British Isles bent on fighting, alienating and discrediting those who are trying to make positive changed in the world around them. Here I will show the techniques being used by this group.

Founded by Freemasons with the intention of creating a political party, the “British 9/11 Truth Movement” actively aims to collect all forms of ‘truth seeker’ together under the control of one governing body. Using vicious attacks on those who refuse to agree or work with the group they are exposing their true nature to those of us with our eyes open.

Examples:

Harassment of July Seven London Bombing survivor Rachel North which involved heckling her public speeches, constant calls to her work place and her family members. They have now taken to publicly labelling Rachel North as a “shill”, “MI5 agent” or government operative. The fact Rachel North is the most prominent campaigner for an independent inquiry into last years attacks have conveniently slipped the collective mind of the British 9-11 Truth Movement.

David Shayler is connected and supports the efforts of the group, an ex MI5 agent who is rumoured to be currently working for British intelligence. No labels or attacks have been nor will be tolerated against Shayler.

Jon Ronson has recently been * for simply asking questions on the message board. When a mainstream reporter considers the alternative story of 9-11 to be worth investigating, he too is immediately labelled a “shill” and suspected of ‘working for the other team’ merely because of his race. The aim here is to create the impression that all activists are small minded racists who would prefer to remain under the radar than get our message to a wider audience.

Again let me clarify, Ronson only asked questions and did not make any assumptions.

The Indymedia Summer of Truth has been ignored by the British 9-11 Truth Movement. Why?

Surely we are on the same team? No. The British 9-11 Movement demand action and events follow their guidelines, and profit margins or no support is offered.
Shelly Doman


Dammit - I always suspected that Ian and Noel and those folks were members of the Lodge
And as for David S well need I say more? And why leave Annie Machon out of this? She has infiltrated a senior position in the organisation
And how shockingly poor Rachel and Jon were treated when they had no part to play in the responses they received online - and ooh, we freemason dupes have been harassing Rachel in real life too. Well, lummee!
Actually, I think we should be rather pleased with this kind of thing.
Taken together with the little "debunkers" running around this board, who I should imagine will soon start multiplying like rats, and who are very typically involved in tying up energy, time and space in promoting endless circular arguments, It suggests we are having an impact out there. Well done chaps
Did somebody mention "profit margins"? - There are profits being made? Where's my share?
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Newspeak International
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add to dh's comments on the verasity of this movement:

I too have been suspicious for some time , the main perpetrators
in this movement seem to have been conspiring together as a group to tell the truth,which goes so obviously against the grain of what we are used to in this democracy of ours,especially in recent years?

One can only ask, who the flippin heck are they to ask for the truth
from our governments in the free world?

Bunch of stirrers if you ask me.


Apalled from Essex

N
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omg! That has to be one of the most funny articles I have ever read! I didn't realise it was April already Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although this is quite funny inasmuch as it is a bunch of lies designed to draw the support of genuine sceptics away from us and towards those who accept the official narratives of 9/11 and 7/7 and although it also shows that we are being effective and that has the PTB worried.....I find the darkness of this kind of stuff really quite depressing.

The dishonesty goes so deep. The craven depths to which people will stoop in order to deceive, and this in service of self-interest rather than truth, really makes one shake one's head in wonder.

I suppose David is being prosecuted again next Thursday to boost his credibility in our eyes. The prosecution are asking the judge to come to a summary judgement, preventing him from presenting any evidence in his own defence. If this is a ruse to land him in jail I suppose he will then really be able to con us to his hearts content for evermore.

Give me strength. I am ever more determined. F*** these people.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uhm - is someone screwing up Indymedia? Check it out:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/audio/ - has the Coldcut breezeblock mix Smile
Ooh, and The Winking Circle: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/video/The_Winking_Circle-DivxMp3.ogm
Eery or what? Laughing


*edit - really spooky, it's all disappeared & back to normal... Shocked
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kookomula
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I couldn't get on to it earlier but went through Google. Tried the same thing again later but got nothing.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enter here
https://www1.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/leedsbradford/
and click UK IMC at the very top of this link
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's also on the Irish indymedia


http://www.indymedia.ie/article/77447

me thinks someone is getting scared

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No surprise the author is using a fake name. Indimedia should be ashamed promoting such a slur. They got their facts slightly mixed up considering it was a poster called masonfreeparty who give Jon the roughest ride.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:59 am    Post subject: Indymedia Reply with quote

If you listen to the Establishments lackeys, Indymedia, no one will listen to you. Let them get on with it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People who make untrue statements about us, need to back up what they're saying with evidence. Where is the evidence? If they can't present it, people will assume these are just libellous smears.

"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they attack you. Then you win."

This is great news: the forces of darkness are now upgrading their worries about us from the ridiculing to the attacking level.

Well done everyone! We're progressing fast.

Noel
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:57 pm    Post subject: Making Progres Reply with quote

andyb wrote:
Quote:
me thinks someone is getting scared


I think it is time to make a toast to all those who would consider themselves to be part of the 9/11 Truth Campaign (Britain & Ireland).

This post on Indymedia is absolute confirmation that we are making progress. My guess is that we will see much more of this type of report over the next few weeks, as we promote the David Ray Griffin event.

However, I detect that more and more people are starting to see through the ridiculous attempts to pour scorn on the 9/11 Truth Campaign ... so keep it coming, folks!

The beauty of this type of attack is that it actually serves to endorse the legitimacy of our quest for exposure of the Truth. The Indy article appears to have been drafted by someone who would prefer to devote their energies in making unfounded allegations, rather than addressing any of the issues raised by the 9/11 Truth Campaign.

'Shelly Doman' (an anagram of 'My sad Hell on...', perhaps?) is to be thanked for bringing the 9/11 Truth Movement to the attention of a wider audience. Now let's take the opportunity to respond the Shelly's musings by spreading the word on David Ray Griffin's talk in London on Sept 9th.

We are indeed making progress and to those in the media and elsewhere in public life, who either know or suspect what really transpired on 9/11; the only ones to be embarrassed by your silence...will be yourselves.

The western world is currently in exactly the same situation as Germany in the late 1930's. It really is time to WAKE UP!

Kind regards,

Ian R. Crane
Chair - 9/11 Truth Campaign (Britain & Ireland)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I has now been removed off UK indymedia. I sent a complaint to the Irish one but it is still there, oh well.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyb wrote:
I has now been removed off UK indymedia. I sent a complaint to the Irish one but it is still there, oh well.

It's still there but hidden, i.e. has a grey background to make it illegible and has been removed from the newswire.

Incidentally, you can see all Indymedia postings at:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/viewallposts.html
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ta se imithe anois. Its gone offa irl indy!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banish wrote:
Ta se imithe anois. Its gone offa irl indy!!
?

It's there but hidden:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/07/345958.html
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Responding to the lies: this site's history and structure

Now a few people have suggested this article is such a pile of nonsense that it doesn't desserve proper response but I agree with Noel that the lies are so contrary to the truth a fuller response is required. Besides it is good to explain who 'we' are and where 'we' have come from.

Below, Noel has written a letter (his computer terminally crashed so he asked that I post this) and to support his case I have embedded a few links to illustrate it. He was in the process of doing a few final edits before his computer crashed so once back on line he may come along and twek it.

To help readers Smelly Do's letter is in blue


Rebuttal of Shelly Doman's Article about the 9 /11 Truth Movement (Britain & Ireland)

The problem about lies is that people hear them and, believing them to be the truth, spread them. I shall assume that Shelly Doman is not a deliberate spreader of disinformation but that she has been deceived by the lies of others. Her article about the 9/11 Truth Movement (Britain and Ireland) is so far from the truth that many have found it funny and have consequently ridiculed it, but I believe we need to put the record straight and I assume that Indymedia will, in the best traditions of free speech, allow a right of reply. Otherwise a falsehood will be perpetuated and spread even further.

The 9/11 Truth Movement in Britain originated out of a series of emails between known campaigners back in the autumn of 2003. As someone who has been intimately involved in its development and growth since then, I will do my best to address each of Shelly’s points from my own experience.

"The Trojan Horse of Activism - British 9/11 "Truth" Movement Shelly Doman | 24.07.2006 19:18 | London

"Founded by Freemasons with the intention of creating a political party, the "British 9/11 Truth Movement" actively aims to collect all forms of ‘truth seeker’ together under the control of one governing body. Using vicious attacks on those who refuse to agree or work with the group they are exposing their true nature to those of us with our eyes open."

"Many activist groups are aware of the infiltration of our movements however those who aim to destroy us have upped their game in recent months."

"Under the guise of ‘activism’ a new breed of control has emerged within the British Isles bent on fighting, alienating and discrediting those who are trying to make positive changed in the world around them. Here I will show the techniques being used by this group.

"Founded by Freemasons with the intention of creating a political party, the "British 9/11 Truth Movement" actively aims to collect all forms of ‘truth seeker’ together under the control of one governing body".


The 9/11 truth movement in Britain was not founded by freemasons. I know all the people involved in its formation personally and none of them, to my knowledge is a freemason. I would be very surprised if any of them covertly turned out to be one.

I am not a freemason myself, but a Quaker, and try to live my life according to the Quaker principles of speaking truth to power and of having only one standard of truth, which means being honest in all matters. Those who make derogatory allegations need to substantiate their assertions with evidence. Shelly Doman has failed to do that.

The campaign is in fact a loose network of individuals who are united in our demand for a further independent investigation of 9/11, who use a combination of local meetings, emails and public discussion forum to keep in touch with each other and help each other advance projects which are the initiatives of individual supporters. We do not and never have had the intention to collect all forms of ‘truth seeker’ together under the control of one governing body.

At present, we have no governing body A small group of us have, however, recently met in Blackpool and agreed to set up a more formal "Campaign for 9/11 Truth (Britain and Ireland)", a body with a constitution whose purpose is to campaign for an independent inquiry into the facts of 9/11, whatever those facts might be. But this body is scarcely functioning as yet. Anyone who wishes to examine its constitution need only search our website. Some further background is available here and here and here and here and here.

As the invite specifies all supporters were welcome to attend. The ‘committee’ referred to was made up of representatives from all the local groups represented at the first national meeting in September 2005. Again this meeting was entirely open and publicized amongst all known campaigners. Hardly the workings of some secretive, sinister and controlling Masonic inspired group.

We are not trying to create a political party, nor to collect all forms of truth seeker under the control of one governing body. We are aware of friends and allies campaigning on related issues (eg 7/7 Truth Campaign, No to ID, Free Gary McKinnon, Campaign Against Criminalising Communities etc) and while many of our supporter also support such other campaigns, we do not try to control them, rather to contribute positively to them and to strengthen them. At the national meeting in September 2005, there was discussion of the possibility to establish a political party, but it did not gain sufficient support and I and the majority of our supporters have had nothing to do with it. If, however, some people wish to campaign in this way, I wish them every success, but I prefer to stay with the main body of the 9/11 truth movement.

"Using vicious attacks on those who refuse to agree or work with the group they are exposing their true nature to those of us with our eyes open."

"Examples:

"Harassment of July Seven London Bombing survivor Rachel North which involved heckling her public speeches, constant calls to her work place and her family members. They have now taken to publicly labelling Rachel North as a "shill", "MI5 agent" or government operative. The fact Rachel North is the most prominent campaigner for an independent inquiry into last years attacks have conveniently slipped the collective mind of the British 9-11 Truth Movement."


We reject all violence or personal attacks on anyone, though we do not have the power to control the actions of individuals (including individuals registered on our forum) from choosing a different path. Further information on our rejection of violence, bigotry and personal attacks and our promotion of a decentralized approach that encourages diversity, respect and grassroots empowerment is available here and here and here.

We also clearly state that we do not endorse the views expressed in the forum and all campaigners are speaking or writing in a personal capacity. This is for the very obvious reason that anyone can join a public forum. Whilst many campaigners are known to me, many are not. The moderators and other posters frequently challenge those who engage in personal attacks. Whilst a few individual posters accused Rachel North of being a “shill” on this thread, it was acknowledged at the time there is no evidence for this. Rachel then accused ‘us’ of being behind a series of alleged attacks which allegedly went far beyond posting shill on a public forum.

If anyone knows who is responsible for these attacks will they please identify them so that we can then check to see if the alleged culprits are connected with us in any way and, if they are, will be able to take the matter up with them. Evidence please? The evidence has been requested from Rachel North (here and here), but she informs us she has passed this evidence to the police. Some how I doubt they will be bothering us

We condemn harassment of anyone, including Rachel North, although she has been extremely rude to us and has repeatedly misrepresented us on many occasions. If she can submit information to us about who has been harassing her, we will check whether these people have anything to do with us and, if they do, will take the matter up with them. Apart from her rudeness, I have a specific issue with Rachel. She insists that the independent inquiry into 7/7 which she is calling for shall not examine who orchestrated the attacks of that day.

Why? I wonder. Tony Blair says in relation to ID cards and other new oppressive laws: "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to be afraid of."

Yes, Mr Blair, so why did you immediately rule out an inquiry into the murderous attacks of 7/7 and why does Rachel North, while demanding an inquiry, insist that it shall not look at who orchestrated those attacks?

Like Jon Ronson, I am here only asking questions.

It appears that Rachel completely accepts the government’s account of who orchestrated the attacks (although the government hase repeatedly and conspicuously lied to justify the "War on Terror"). She also apparently has no problems with overthrowing a basic principle of British justice: that accused people should be presumed innocent unless proven guilty in law.

Nevertheless, we will take up the issue of her alleged harassment when she provides us with details.

"David Shayler is connected and supports the efforts of the group, an ex MI5 agent who is rumoured to be currently working for British intelligence. No labels or attacks have been nor will be tolerated against Shayler."

David Shayler indeed works with us and is an ex MI5 agent who blew the whistle on MI5 when he was assigned to work with a militant Islamic group to assassinate President Gadaffi of Libya. The assassination went wrong and innocent people were killed. I have heard the rumours that he is still working for MI5. If true, they are giving him an extraordinarily grueling assignment, requiring him to spend two terms in prison, one in France and one in Britain, and are currently suing him in the civil courts in an attempt to shut him up from talking about their skullduggery.

In his criminal trial, where he was convicted, in another travesty of the principles of British justice he was disallowed by the court from preventing any evidence in his defense. What I find hard to understand is why MI5 would want him to do such a good job of exposing government lies and generally discrediting them and why, if that is what they want him to do, they are now trying to gag him through the civil courts where he is facing possible damages of thousands of pounds.

I don’t agree with everything he says and sometimes I criticise him, as do others within the movement. There is no penalty for doing so. We aim to promote free speech and debate.

"Jon Ronson has recently been * for simply asking questions on the message board. When a mainstream reporter considers the alternative story of 9-11 to be worth investigating, he too is immediately labeled a "shill" and suspected of ‘working for the other team’ merely because of his race. The aim here is to create the impression that all activists are small minded racists who would prefer to remain under the radar than get our message to a wider audience."

Yes, unfortunately there was rudeness on the website forum towards Jon Ronson which I condemn, though I personally wrote a post welcoming him there. Anyone may post on our forum and it is therefore a place of rough and tumble argument, though it does not get as rough as many such website forums do and the moderators and the majority of posters do intervene to advice against such evidence free attacks

"Again let me clarify, Ronson only asked questions and did not make any assumptions."

I appreciate that and I was very glad that he took the trouble to visit our forum. There was a bit of a frisson when someone posted a comment about him which was arguably anti-Semitic and naturally he took offence. I understand where he’s coming from over that, because, as a member of the gay (rather than the Jewish) minority myself, my antennae are always sensitively on the look-out for any homophobia whenever I enter a new circle of people. But Jon returned to the forum after that and I hope he will return and post again. We have a policy of opposition to the posting of any form of racial or religious prejudice on the forum and repeat offenders are dealt with by the moderators. If Jon feels that we did not adequately deal with the rudeness he met on the forum, we will take the matter up if he complains to the forum moderators.

Posters on the forum need to understand that it is an open public forum and anyone is free to post there. The many varied opinions expressed there do not necessarily represent the views of the 9/11 Truth Movement. Some of them are frankly crass or antagonistic towards the movement. People may object to the moderators about any expression of racial or religious prejudice, homophobia, sexism, pornography or the advocacy of harassment or violence. The moderators have the power to remove such offensive posts and have done so on several occasions.

Just in case there is an implication here that the founders of the 9/11 Truth Movement in Britain are anti-Semitic, the religious affiliations of the founders are: Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, agnostic, atheist and general New Age spirituality.

"The Indymedia Summer of Truth has been ignored by the British 9-11 Truth Movement. Why?"

Personally I had not heard of it until after the event, but if I had I would have welcomed and supported it. A quick search shows it was promoted on our forum (here and here) but seems to have slipped under my radar and many other people’s radar My impression, possibly a mistaken one, is that 9/11 truth campaigners are not very welcome on Indymedia in general and are inclined to have their views heavily censored there. This may be because of the kind of disinformation about us being spread in this article.

"Surely we are on the same team?"

We should be, but it is hard to make common cause with those who spread disinformation about you. If Shelly will retract the unsubstantiated allegations she has made about us, I shall be happy to regard her as a comrade on the same team, struggling to end this wicked "War on Terror" and the erosion of our civil liberties which it is used to justify.

"No. The British 9-11 Movement demand action and events follow their guidelines, and profit margins or no support is offered."

This is a completely false allegation. Where is your evidence?

Noel Glynn

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/07/345958.html

"Take heed, dear Friends, to the promptings of love and truth in your hearts." - Quaker Advices and Queries

PS From me...

Smelly Do obviously reads the forum (although not enough to know what 'she' is talking about) Now if 'she' would like to come here and defend herself or apologise for 'her' shoddy lies, we can talk about all being on the same team.


Last edited by ian neal on Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing I would add is rather than the "British 9/11 truth movement" being founded by masons who rule with an iron fist over its gullible membership and which is bent on conquering whatever undefined movement Smelly considers herself to be a part of, the truth is that the regrettable name calling experienced by Rachel and Jon Ronson are symptomatic of a network and campaign that lacks of structure and centralised organisation (which both a strength and a weakness)

As explained here

Quote:
My advice is unless you can prove she is a spook (nigh impossible) I would steer clear of suggesting as much on public bulletin boards. Such musings could be portrayed as callous smeering against an innocent victim etc. and will antagonise undecided readers who will dismiss such speculation as insensitive.


I (and others) anticipated that any name calling of our critics would be used against us. So it has proven
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems pretty well written.
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ian neal
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given that this thread is linked to in a recent addition by 'wide eyed' on the Indymedia thread and labelled crazy discussion, perhaps Smelly and her apologists 'Wide eyed' and '911 truth seeker' would care to speak in defense of the article?
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ian neal
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indymedia search turned up these

Supportive or neutral articles on 9/11 truth

US movement
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/07/344325.html
Cambridge event http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/cambridge/2006/05/340879.html
Oxford event http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/oxford/2005/08/322223.html
Bristol event
https://www1.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/07/344845.html
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mason-free party
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do leopards change their spots?...or just mellow abit in the 'sun'

Truth Activists Cripple Indymedia UK
Wed, 20 Apr 2005 02:53:57 -0700toothfairy
R45031
1 year ago Truth Activists Cripple Indymedia UK
http://www.flamesong.com/imuk/action01.html
At 09.36 on the morning of Saturday 9th April 2005 Truth Activists raided the newswire of Indymedia UK (IMCUK) and overwhelmed it with articles and graphics demanding that Indymedia UK cease its ongoing censorship policy. The group, [legion] is the front line of a growing discontent at IMCUK’s refusal to give space to such issues at September 11th, The Bilderberg Group and Freemasonry.
By the time Indymedia UK had been alerted to the action and managed to prevent them posting to the newswire at 17.04 only four non-[legion] articles had been published, three pages of newswire articles had been posted which can be seen here:
www.indymedia.org.uk/en/viewallposts2235.html
www.indymedia.org.uk/en/viewallposts2236.html
www.indymedia.org.uk/en/viewallposts2237.html
Confidential correspondence, leaked to [legion] by an Indymedia UK insider, revealed that the IMCUK administrators struggled to take control of the stuation and that certain administrators showed signs of panic. This inside source also revealed that the long denied policy of IP address bans is practiced by Indymedia UK and that it was implemented as the only means of dealing with the activists. Records also suggest that IP logs may be kept though this cannot currently be proven.
Once the IMC admininistrators had implimented the denied IP address ban on the activists they took the protest to IMC sites around the world including several US sites, Argentina, Brasil, Italy, South Africa and several sites in Australia and the International IMC site. Postings were also made on the Netherlands site but inside information suggests that a certain IMCNL administrator was complicit in the UK firefight.
When asked about Indymedia UK speculation that further actions are likely a [legion] activist refused to comment. The activist stated that the action was not against Indymedia as an organisation, merely their peculiar relationship with the truth stating that whilst they continued to deny certainties which have been proven how could they be trusted with delivering the truth. The activist also pointed out that Indymedia administrators immediately blamed Tony Gosling, who has been a target for intimidation for some time, for the action but stated categorically that Tony Gosling had not been involved and that he had actually stated beforehand that he thought less direct tactics were favourable.
The activist also questioned why, when IMCs in the US had specific sections for it, any article which speculated that the official truth about September 11th might be a lie was invariably censored and would be ridiculed by IMCUK administrators and trolls alike. They questioned how this could be reconciled with the US position on 9/11 and how newly formed 9/11 Truth Groups in the UK ought to receive the recognition that they do in the US instead of being dismissed as mere ‘conspiracy theorists’ in the time honoured means of winning an argument without any evidence.
Curiously, perhaps as a sop to the protestors, but more likely as a gesture to international observers, one article regarding September 11th remains on the newswire – however, it ought to be pointed out that virtually identical articles by the same author have all been hidden in the past and this has all the hallmarks of an act of cosmetic damage control and evokes memories of the Farnborough DSEi articles which appeared, disappeared and reappered in a very suspiscious manner and resulted in an action which nobody attended – see here(bottom of the page) – the visibity of this article makes the eyes water and it is currenltly visible although it was not until long after the action failed to materialise. It is evident from the comments (unless they have been deleted – if so the article can be seen archived here) that the article had been censored.
As a footnote to this action it should be pointed out that despite statements to Indymedia UK, one of their administrators, known as ‘poon’, followed up [legion] statements on IMCs around the world blaming Tony Gosling and making libelous statements about him which cannot be published for legal reasons.
Further statements have been made via the IMCUK process lists which have been totally ignored. This demonstrates two things. The process list mechanism is not tailored for the use of non-IMC administrators. And that attemting to communicate by means of them is almost certainly a waste of time.


IsraelForever2
R45142
1 year ago The far-left figting the far-left. This is fun.


zark
R52949
1 year ago ok tooth this removal of 911 posts is getting stupid now.
first they were removed because of spamming.. then because they were stating things and not showing any activism in the community and now when a post in made telling people of a speakers forum IT IS REMOVED!!!!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE. 911 for indymedia is a censored issue…. my guess is Intelligence Services are managing Indymedia databases or have scared the editors soooo much they are now GOVERNMENT WHORES
INDYMEDIA censorship
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ian neal
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Below is an email from Chris at Indymedia Sheffield


Hi

I would have posted this to your discussion board but the Sheffield Indymedia account doesn't seem to work and creating a new account is also broken... Feel free to post this yourselves if you want.

Regarding these threads:

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=2821

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=2798

The response that has been drafted has been posted to the Indymedia article:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/07/345958.html

I have no idea who wrote the article on Indymedia, "Shelly Doman" is probably a made up name.

Regarding the points raised by "mason-free party".

(Ian Neal: See this thread for background)

The slogan "The Summer of Truth" was copied from the site in NYC but Sheffield IMC has no relation what so ever with them, apart from the fact that the guy behind that site sent us a nice email after he came across the Sheffield IMC site and he seems sound. Why do they have the sun in
their logo -- I have no idea, perhaps because it symbolises summer...!?

"The trouble with some of you guys is that you know a few masons and would rather keep on the right side of them for vested interests..."

There is no masonic involvement with Indymedia and the suggestion is absurd, I don't know any masons and don't even know of anybody who does.

"I'm in total agreement with Eric Hufschmid on Levis.."

I don't know who Levis is but I have looked at some of Hufschmid's material and he is an anti-semite who seems to blame the ills of the world on Jews -- THIS IS RACISM.

Ian put it in a polite way when he pointed out that "mason-free party" is:

"Confusing zionism and being jewish again"

Regarding UK IMCs history on 9/11 -- mistakes have clearly been made in the recent past but the situation is somewhat different now.

Earlier this month a user of the site sent a email to the imc-uk-features list to complain that 9/11 posts were not being hidden any more:

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-features/2006-July/0714-4h .html

And there were three substantive replies from admins:

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-features/2006-July/0718-kq .html

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-features/2006-July/0719-1a .html

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-features/2006-July/0722-y9 .html

None of which were supportive of going back to hiding 9/11 material, this effectively represents a consensus on the issue.

Personally I think that the quality of 9/11 posts on Indymedia could be better -- there is a lack of posts about 9/11 related protests and actions and too many rushed copy and paste posts and this annoys people looking
at the site to read grassroots reports about things happening in the UK.

An example of this is a post from the other day about the screening on CSPAN calling for people to "maximize viewership":

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/07/346376.html?c=on

We don't have CSPAN here, of course the issue of the mainstream coverage is important but a better post might have mentioned CSPAN, the recent articles in the Norwegian press etc

Another example of IMC users being upset about the quality of the 9/11 posts is the discussion here:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2006/07/345265.html?c =on

I'm not blaming users of nineeleven.co.uk for the poor quality of 9/11 posts on Indymedia and it's good to see the recent Leeds anti-war demo being reported by 9/11 activists:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/leedsbradford/2006/07/346435.ht ml

I mentioned to dh last night that what would be great to see lots of posts reporting awarness raising actions that people have undertaken on 11th September 2006 -- if there are several reports from around the country then it will be possible to link these together in a feature article for the centre column of the front page of UK Indymedia, and this article could also go into the issues that truth activists have been raising, WTC7 etc etc.

If there are also reports of actions from around the world on various IMC sites then the feature article could also be adapted for the global site.

http://www.indymedia.org/

All the best

Chris


--------------------------------------------------------

To which I replied ....

Many thanks Chris for your reply

I will post this on the forum and then hope to draw a line under the affair. It is very encouraging that Indymedia UK is increasingly open to supporting and working with 9/11 truth campaigners in this country (or atleast not censoring 9/11 posts). An excellent development.

Best wishes

Ian Neal
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris at Indymedia Sheffield wrote:
...Why do they have the sun in their logo -- I have no idea, perhaps because it symbolises summer...!?

Top answer!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris at Indymedia Sheffield wrote:
I have no idea who wrote the article on Indymedia, "Shelly Doman" is probably a made up name.

Yeah, I thought so too but having failed to find any significant anagrams or puns I Googled "Shelly Doman":

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Shelly%20Doman%22

Apart from the obvious links to the Indymedia article it seems that at least one person with that name exists but with no obvious interest in or connection to the UK 9/11 Truth Movement.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
An example of this is a post from the other day about the screening on CSPAN calling for people to "maximize viewership":

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/07/346376.html?c=on

We don't have CSPAN here, of course the issue of the mainstream coverage is important but a better post might have mentioned CSPAN, the recent articles in the Norwegian press etc


Nevertheless The CSPAN broadcast is here
http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Series&Code=APS&ShowVidNum=10&R ot_Cat_CD=APS&Rot_HT=206&Rot_WD=&ShowVidDays=100&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveD ays=100

Quote:
I mentioned to dh last night that what would be great to see lots of posts reporting awarness raising actions that people have undertaken on 11th September 2006 -- if there are several reports from around the country then it will be possible to link these together in a feature article for the centre column of the front page of UK Indymedia, and this article could also go into the issues that truth activists have been raising, WTC7 etc etc.

If there are also reports of actions from around the world on various IMC sites then the feature article could also be adapted for the global site.


This may well benefit the indymedia perspective, Is there anything in it for this campaign other than a positive feed into IMC, both UK and worldwide?
What are peoples thoughts on this?

_________________
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dh wrote:
This may well benefit the indymedia perspective, Is there anything in it for this campaign other than a positive feed into IMC, both UK and worldwide?
What are peoples thoughts on this?

Interesting question. Having struggled against Indymedia's overzealous censorship, as you have, dh, this is also a bit of a dilemma.

I'd really like to know more about the new attitude Indymedia has to 9/11, at least the UK IMC, as many American IMCs have been very supportive of 9/11 Truth.

Has there been a change of personnel or was there a collective epiphany?

If I get to the Earth First! Summer Gathering I'll make enquiries as there are bound to be IMCers there - there were last time I went, two years ago, but I kept my head down as according to Indymedia listmail there were IMCers trying to find out who I was and I know for a proven fact that my Hotmail account was hacked by somebody with an Indymedia interest and the flamesong forum was vandalised shortly afterwards.

But it is evident that amongst political activists that Indymedia is generally speaking the locus of reportage and if there is a paradigm shift of attitude towards 9/11 perhaps it should be celebrated as a breakthrough and an opportunity.

Approach with caution, perhaps.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok Chris of Indymedia...thanks for clearing the matter up ,looks like i owe your group an aplogy...like Ian said,i should have phoned you up first before putting the allegations on this forum,regards MFP
P.S.Eric Hufschmid has done alot of good work exposing 9/11 and i wouldn't say he's anti semetic just anti zionist..big difference
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