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Is Climate Change really man-made?
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chek
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

item8 wrote:
Quote:
Climate change scandal deepens as BBC expert claims he was sent 'cover-up' emails a month before they went public

By Carol Driver
Last updated at 10:10 PM on 25th November 2009

The controversy surrounding the global warming scandal today deepened after a BBC correspondent admitted he was sent the leaked emails more than a month before they were made public.

Paul Hudson, weather presenter and climate change expert, claims the documents allegedly sent between some of the world's leading scientists are of a direct result of an article he wrote.

In his BBC blog two days ago, Hudson said: 'I was forwarded the chain of emails on the 12th October, which are comments from some of the world's leading climate scientists written as a direct result of my article "Whatever Happened To Global Warming".


Oh what a tangled web we weave....

He couldn't have been sent the stolen emails a month ago since many of them were written after October 12, as a simple date search shows.
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/search.php
Still gullibility, coupled with an innate inability to verify anything, is always appreciated in those denierati circles.

Thanks for playing, banjo - you single-handedly provide more comedy moments to more people than you will ever know.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

item8 wrote:
More from people with the wrong politics. The comments at the end are typical of the current trend and worth reading for the uplifting feeling that the fraud is nearing its end.


Not according to Amazon (a site for people who can read books as opposed to blog science sites.), where's it's blasted in at No.22.

"Jim Hoggan and Richard Littelmore's new book Climate Cover Up is putting the climate deniers' books to shame in the rankings on Amazon.com this week."

Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought
"Climate Change: Picturing the Science" by Gavin Schmidt (IPCC contributor)

"The Heat is on: Climate Crisis, the Cover-up, the Prescription"
This book not only brings home the imminence of climate change but also examines the campaign of deception by big coal and big oil that is keeping the real issue off the public agenda.

It examines the various arenas in which the battle for control of the
issue is being fought--a battle with surprising political alliances
and relentless obstructionism.
The story provides an ominous foretaste of the gathering threat
of political chaos and totalitarianism.

And it concludes by outlining a transistion to the future that
contains, at least, the possibility of continuity for our
organized civilization, and, at best, a vast increase in the
stability, equity, and wealth of the global economy".


...and of course,
The Age of Stupid

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Climate-Cover-Up-Crusade-Global-Warming/dp/155 3654854

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Mr-Bridger
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might not know the truth about climate change, but I recognise trickery and slippery excuses when I see them by Stephen Glover, Daily Mail

Thursday, November 26th 2009, 5:01 PM EST


One of the charges often made by climate change sceptics about climate change believers is that they sometimes manipulate statistics. The believers say exactly the same thing about the sceptics.
What are we to make of such allegations? By 'we' I mean the vast majority of humanity who are not experts on climate change. These include most politicians and journalists, all non-scientists, and even scientists in unrelated fields.

My own response is to assume both sides are capable of twisting the facts. This is not based on scientific knowledge of climate change, since like almost everyone else I don't have any.
You could say it is a common sense point of view. In any heated argument, both sides are liable to be selective, and we shouldn't expect scientists to be immune from such tendencies.

It is nonetheless shocking to read leaked emails from the University of East Anglia which imply selectivity.
The university may not be generally regarded as one of this country's finest academic institutions, but its Climatic Research Unit (CRU) is reckoned one of the most influential in the world.

In one email, dated November 1999, Professor Phil Jones, head of the CRU, wrote: 'I've just completed Mike's Nature [the scientific journal] trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (i.e. from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 to hide the decline.'

The CRU, which has played a key role in several United Nations reports, has refused to provide detailed information about the data underlying temperature records.
Other emails are no less damning. Some suggest efforts to prevent the publication of work by sceptics, or to keep it out of an Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change.

In another email, Professor Jones refers to the death of a prominent sceptic by writing 'in an odd way this is cheering news'

These and other emails do not give a impression of relentless seeking after truth, or of constant fair-mindedness.
Rather, they hint at a tendency to conceal inconvenient facts in their own research and to suppress them in others.

What has been the response of the CRU in particular and climate change believers in general? With one or two honourable exceptions, such as George Monbiot in The Guardian newspaper, it has been unapologetic, and beside the point.

The University of East Anglia even refused to admit for a while that the emails were genuine.
There are those such as Professor Julia Slingo, chief scientist at the Met Office, who complain that the emails were obtained criminally, as though this somehow frees her and others from any responsibility to justify them.

There is also the hoary old defence that they have been taken out of context.
Defenders of the CRU have even argued that the emails span a period of some ten years, and are therefore bound to include a few disobliging references. Professor Jones has tried to explain away his email about tricks and hiding decline by saying it was written in haste.

This won't do. Even in haste, a prominent academic writing to a colleague does not say something he does not mean. Professor Jones should explain why he used words which would appear to be self-incriminating. I suspect he won't because he can't.

You may say that, just because a few leading climate change evangelists misbehave, it does not follow that all climate change believers do so, or that all their arguments are false.
That, of course, is true. But if there is evidence that one of the world's most influential climate change institutions has acted - to say the least - unprofessionally, it is not unreasonable to wonder whether such techniques are not more widely used.

Almost none of us will ever understand climate change. Without specialised scientific knowledge, most of us can only make an educated guess as to whether it is caused by man.
My guess is that it is to an extent. In coming to this tentative conclusion I am influenced by the integrity and sense of fair dealing of those who volubly make the argument for man-made climate change.

So when these people show a want of openness and fair dealing, and when they fail to offer a proper defence of apparently dodgy emails, such faith as I have in them is shaken. I may not understand climate change but I can recognise slippery responses when I see them.
But then this is not a debate that is often conducted in an open way. In some quarters climate change sceptics are derisively dismissed as 'deniers', which is to put them on the level of Holocaust deniers.

But whereas the Holocaust is a historical event, attested to by many survivors and observers, man-made climate change is only a theory, albeit a highly plausible one.
Its adherents invest it with the authority of an unchallengeable doctrine - which is why, when some of them are discovered not being wholly straightforward, they do not bother to offer a creditable defence.

And, even more disturbingly, much of the media does not feel obliged to put them on the spot, having uncritically swallowed everything they say.

Imagine that a leading climate change sceptic had been unmasked using this sort of language.

There would be a tremendous hullabaloo. BBC news bulletins, which have either ignored or underplayed the University of East Anglia's emails, would be full of fury.

The Corporation long ago stopped questioning the climate change consensus. Visit its website and you will find little, if anything, critical of the University of East Anglia.
But you can watch a video clip of Bianca Jagger, borrowed from its programme The Daily Politics, informing us that climate change is the biggest threat we face, with scenes of the Cumbrian floods in the background. She suggests they were caused by man-made climate change.
Bianca Jagger cannot possibly know whether or not they were, and nor does the BBC.
Her views about the causes of climate change are completely worthless, and yet the BBC cheerfully broadcasts them - as it would certainly not broadcast the views of an ignoramus who was a sceptic.

If climate change really is the biggest threat facing humanity, let's have a more measured and reasoned argument in which the sceptics are not shouted down or ignored.
If our way of life is to be changed, and our countryside transformed, and the Third World possibly deprived of the opportunities of economic growth, we deserve a bit more than bogus pictures of polar bears perched on lumps of ice, and Bianca Jagger informing us that the Cumbrian floods are the result of climate change.

And the University of East Anglia - a public institution largely funded by the taxpayer - owes the world a more straightforward explanation than it has so far bothered to give about those apparently discreditable emails.

The misbehaviour of one influential group in seeking to manipulate the facts obviously does not mean that all climate change believers are wrong.

But in future people would be wise no longer to take on trust their most outlandish and hair-raising claims.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-1231024/STEPHEN-G LOVER-I-know-truth-climate-change-I-recognise-trickery-slippery-excuse s-I-them.html
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chek
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr-Bridger wrote:
Quote:
I might not know the truth about climate change, but I recognise trickery and slippery excuses when I see them by Stephen Glover, Daily Mail

Thursday, November 26th 2009, 5:01 PM ESTIn one email, dated November 1999, Professor Phil Jones, head of the CRU, wrote: 'I've just completed Mike's Nature [the scientific journal] trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (i.e. from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 to hide the decline.'


And once the hot air and mouthy, ink wasting rhetoric is extracted, what we're left with is this item already covered in the response to GSTT's RT interview, which he backed off from.

What issues did you specifically have with that earlier in the thread Mr-oh-so-neutral-Bridger.
Spit it out, if indeed you have anything to say.

There is presumably a functioning human being behind that username, and not some spambot randomly spamming the floundering Daily Mail's links?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chek wrote:

And once the hot air and mouthy, ink wasting rhetoric is extracted, what we're left with is this item already covered in the response to GSTT's RT interview, which he backed off from.


Now now chek, I didn't back off from anything. I posted the "heated debate" videos because I thought they were funny and as pointless as this thread quite frankly.

Nothing more.

If you look back throughout this thread I'm sure you wont find me coming down on either side of the debate.

But do correct me if I'm wrong.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chek wrote:

"Jim Hoggan and Richard Littelmore's new book Climate Cover Up is putting the climate deniers' books to shame in the rankings on Amazon.com this week."


But this book is currently languishing at rank 319,987 in the Amazon bestsellers list........?

The only climate change book currently in the top 200 is 'The Real Global Warming Disaster: Is The Obsession With `Climate Change` Turning Out To Be The Most Costly Scientific Blunder In History?' by Christopher Booker, which resides at #160 within the top 200 and at position #5 in the science bestsellers list. Its a very interesting read by the way, including a section which is particularly relevant to the current 'climategate'

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Real-Global-Warming-Disaster-Scientific/dp/144 1110526/ref=pd_ts_b_5?ie=UTF8&s=books
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wepmob2000 wrote:
But this book is currently languishing at rank 319,987 in the Amazon bestsellers list........?http://www.amazon.co.uk/Real-Global-Warming-Disaster-Scie ntific/dp/1441110526/ref=pd_ts_b_5?ie=UTF8&s=books


It depends whereabouts you look WM2K.

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/bestsellers/books/956280/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_b_1_2

It could be the result of the Discount Munchkin's tour which has just been through. I suppose

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GodSaveTheTeam wrote:
chek wrote:

And once the hot air and mouthy, ink wasting rhetoric is extracted, what we're left with is this item already covered in the response to GSTT's RT interview, which he backed off from.


Now now chek, I didn't back off from anything. I posted the "heated debate" videos because I thought they were funny and as pointless as this thread quite frankly.

Nothing more.

If you look back throughout this thread I'm sure you wont find me coming down on either side of the debate.

But do correct me if I'm wrong.


Intentionally or not GSTT, you contributed to the corporate noise and distortion machine which did nothing to clarify the truth of the situation, but did add another layer to the lie.

Intentionally, or not.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Climate E-mails and the Politics of Science

Ivan Kenneally

For years, the left has spun the debate over global warming in the starkest Manichean terms. Those who disagree with the scientific and policy orthodoxy have been maligned as greedy capitalists bent on raping the earth of its natural resources for cheap material gain; they have been cast as the benighted enemies of reason itself. Efforts to publicly challenge the science behind global warming have too often resulted in professional and political character assassination. To be skeptical about the fashionable scientific and policy platform aggressively advocated by the mainstream media and self-indulgently championed by the Hollywood elite is nothing less than an “assault on reason,” to borrow Al Gore’s hyperbolic rhetoric. In predictably technocratic fashion, the left has claimed its own peculiar position as the only scientifically legitimate one—everything else reduces to craven interest, manifest dishonesty, or antiquarian faith.

However, maintaining this self-serving narrative just got a lot harder. In the last few days, the cause of climate alarmism took a big hit when more than a thousand e-mails exchanged by scientists at the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) suddenly surfaced online. These e-mails were published by the computer hackers who apparently stole them, a crime that should be investigated and prosecuted. But notwithstanding the e-mails’ route to publication, their actual content is extraordinary. These behind-the-scenes discussions among leading global-warming exponents are remarkable both in their candor and in their sheer contempt for scientific objectivity. There can be little doubt after even a casual perusal that the scientific case for global warming and the policy that springs from it are based upon a volatile combination of political ideology, unapologetic mendacity, and simmering contempt for even the best-intentioned disagreement. Especially in anticipation of the major climate summit taking place in Copenhagen next month, the significance of this explosive disclosure is hard to underestimate. According to climatologist Patrick J. Michaels, “This is not a smoking gun; this is a mushroom cloud.”

The evidence of scientific dishonesty supplied by these communications is so copious it’s hard to know where to begin an attempt to describe them. Many of the e-mails brazenly discuss the manipulation of scientific data either to provide the appearance of greater support for global warming science or to undermine the claims of skeptics. For example, CRU scholar Timothy J. Osborn explicitly describes how data can be reconfigured so that evidence of an apparent cooling period disappears. His colleague Tom Wigley discusses recasting the data on sea-surface temperatures so that the results seem considerably warmer but also scientifically plausible. The director of CRU, Phil Jones, brags about his use of eminent climatologist Michael Mann’s “Nature trick” which deliberately confuses scientific data to “hide the decline” in current temperatures.

Other e-mails openly encourage the suppression of data that could prove difficult to repudiate. Michael Mann provides strategic advice on how to deal with a journal, Geophysical Research Letters, that seems to be open to publishing views that dissent from climate orthodoxy. In an e-mail to Phil Jones, Mann also expresses his desire to “contain” the very inconvenient truth of the Medieval Warm Period, so important in overthrowing Mann’s classic “Hockey Stick” model of anthropogenic warming, even though he admits they don’t have an appropriate model to do that legitimately.

Public spokesmen for the global warming agenda constantly claim a near-universal consensus within the scientific community supporting their position, but these private exchanges often reveal serious personal reservations regarding what they really know and how confident they are in the statistical models they rely upon. In an e-mail to several prominent climate scientists (including Mann and Jones), Kevin E. Trenberth, one of the leading contributors to the work of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, offers this confession: “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate.” In another e-mail, Trenberth admits climatologists have a limited understanding of where our energy ultimately goes, what the effects of cloud formation might have on the entire issue, and expresses doubts about the efficacy of geoengineering to provide any substantive relief, again saying that the gaps in the scientific knowledge amount to “a travesty.” All of this a far cry from the strident claims about unimpeachable evidence and demonstrable theory that usually emanates from these quarters.

Perhaps the most damning e-mails concern CRU deputy director Keith Briffa’s analysis of the diameter of tree rings in Yamal, Siberia. That research is a major evidentiary pillar in support of twentieth-century global warming and it helped resurrect Michael Mann’s “Hockey Stick” graph of global warming. The scientist largely responsible for challenging Mann’s work, Steve McIntyre, turned his attention to Briffa’s resurrection of it and accused him of cherry-picking samples that would confirm his politically desirable hypothesis.

The response to McIntyre’s work revealed in the CRU e-mails shows a breathtaking pattern of ideological rigidity and academic fraudulence that is simultaneously egregious and casually self-satisfied. First, it becomes clear that the global warming crowd, in particular Mann and Osborn, are quick to dismiss McIntyre’s work as “not legitimate science” even before reviewing his studies. Their initial reflex is not to scrutinize McIntyre’s analysis or to reconsider their own entrenched positions but rather to respond with a kind of angry, territorial protectiveness. Then they collectively identify someone who could, in fact, “shed light on McIntyre’s criticisms of Yamal” but choose not to contact him because he “can be rather a loose cannon.” Another scientist who might have helped clarify the Yamal situation is dismissed by Mann for being “not as predictable as we’d like.” Unquestioning loyalty to a political platform is understood to be the precondition of scientific authenticity.

Even worse, in response to the charge that Briffa’s work is difficult to verify because he withholds key data from the published study, Tom Wigley actually issues a justification of the practice:

And the issue of withholding data is still a hot potato, one that affects both you [Phil Jones] and Keith [Briffa] (and Mann). Yes, there are reasons — but many good scientists appear to be unsympathetic to these. The trouble here is that withholding data looks like hiding something, and hiding means (in some eyes) that it is bogus science that is being hidden.

Wigley provides no discussion at all regarding what would count as an appropriate reason for concealing data, or what benefit this could bring to the scientific community at large. One is left to wonder if the justification for hiding information is political rather than scientific. Mann seems unconcerned that any of these issues will resonate with a friendly media: “Fortunately,” he wrote to a New York Times reporter, “the prestige press doesn’t fall for this sort of stuff, right?”

In his “Memorandum on Scientific Integrity” from earlier this year, President Obama stated that it is the function of “science and the scientific process” to “inform and guide” his administration on virtually every issue from health care to national security. This came on the heels of his promise in his inaugural address to “restore science to its rightful place,” and his boast that his administration will “base” its “public policies on the soundest science,” indicating that the proper relation between politics and science subordinates the former to the latter. The classic concern about science—that it might become dangerously liberated from moral or political guidance—is not what concerns President Obama in his memorandum and speeches. Rather, he worries about the suppression or politicization of unambiguous scientific fact. If the president’s words are taken at face value, his administration should seriously reconsider its enthusiastic embrace of aggressive climate legislation, since the CRU e-mails reveal a political appropriation of science instead of a science liberated from political pressure.

Hillary Clinton famously remarked that during the Bush years it was “open season on open inquiry,” rehashing the familiar charge that a faith-based obscurantism dogmatically dismissed not only the claims of legitimate science, but also the very claims of reason itself. President Obama has stayed true to the liberal posture that whatever policy he happens to advocate is the only one substantiated by empirical science. However, it has become increasingly clear that the president’s claim to rigorously adhere to a science of politics—a science that provides unprejudiced information upon which he can craft sound policy—has been overtaken by a politics of science—the crass and Procrustean transformation of whatever data is available into further confirmation of his own ideological commitments. Australian writer Andrew Bolt has suggested that the CRU e-mail leak is a “scandal that is one of the greatest in modern science.” But the greater scandal may be that the United States and the rest of the world are considering enacting energy-restrictive and economy-damaging climate policies based on ideological distortions of scientific fact.

Ivan Kenneally is an assistant professor of political science at the Rochester Institute of Technology. He is writing a book on technocracy in American politics.

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-climate-e-mails-and-the -politics-of-science
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see your proxy post is still making the exact same distortions MrB.

Being mindful that this is a co-ordinated pre-Copenhagen propaganda campaign, with a repeating echo chamber pushing the same points from different sources which are never going to correct themselves, how do you feel about that, now you know?

I don't suppose you notice that it's always the same small group of
professional deniers that always give the quotes either.
Or is it a case of you're seeing a lot of it, so it must be true and that's
good enough for you.

You know, instead of holding up handfuls of dripping shiit planted at
the bottom of the sewer for you to find and going "look I what I found everybody", you could
try informing yourself with real information.

You could always start here:
http://www.ccrc.unsw.edu.au/Copenhagen/Copenhagen_Diagnosis_LOW.pdf
which shouldn't be too difficult, provided you finished secondary school.

That's the one thing the corporate shills fear is an informed public.
Misinformed and disinformed dupes are their stock in trade.

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item8
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its unstoppable now in spite of the Climate Liars best efforts. The game is up!

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100018003/climategat e-five-aussie-mps-lead-the-way-by-resigning-in-disgust-over-carbon-tax  /

Quote:
Climategate: five Aussie MPs lead the way by resigning in disgust over carbon tax

By James Delingpole Politics Last updated: November 26th, 2009

Australia is leading the revolt against Al Gore’s great big AGW conspiracy – just as the Aussie geologist and AGW sceptic Professor Ian Plimer predicted it would.

ABC news reports that five frontbenchers from Australia’s opposition Liberal party have resigned their portfolios rather than follow their leader Malcolm Turnbull in voting with Kevin Rudd’s Government on a new Emissions Trading Scheme.

The Liberal Party is in turmoil with the resignations of five frontbenchers from their portfolios this afternoon in protest against the emissions trading scheme.

Tony Abbott, Sophie Mirabella, Tony Smith and Senators Nick Minchin and Eric Abetz have all quit their portfolios because they cannot vote for the legislation.

Senate whip Stephen Parry has also relinquished his position.

The ETS is Australia’s version of America’s proposed Cap and Trade and the EU’s various carbon reduction schemes: a way of taxing business on its CO2 output. As Professor Plimer pointed out when I interviewed him in the summer, this threatens to cause enormous economic damage in Australia’s industrial and mining heartlands, not least because both are massively dependent on Australia’s vast reserves of coal. It is correspondingly extremely unpopular with Aussie’s outside the pinko, libtard metropolitan fleshpots.

Though the ETS squeaked narrowly through Australia’s House of Representatives, its Senate is proving more robust – thanks not least to the widespread disgust by the many Senators who have read Professor Plimer’s book Heaven And Earth at the dishonesty and corruption of the AGW industry. If the Senate keeps rejecting the scheme, then the Australian government will be forced to dissolve.

For the rapidly increasing number of us who believe that AGW is little more than a scheme by bullying eco-fascists to deprive us of our liberty, by big government to spread its controlling tentacles into every aspect our lives, and scheming industrialists such as Al Gore to enrich themselves through carbon trading, this principled act by Australia’s Carbon Five is fantastic news.

Where they lead, the rest of the world’s politicians will eventually be forced to follow: their appalled electorates will make sure of it.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things have come to a pretty pass when it is the Thatcherites and the Torygraph which are the voices of reason regarding this gigantic Man-made climate change scam.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100018056/climategat e-this-is-our-berlin-wall-moment/

Quote:
Climategate: this is our Berlin Wall moment!


By James Delingpole Politics Last updated: November 26th, 2009

I’ve just had a great, very sympathetic interview about Climategate on LBC radio (London’s main commercial news and talk station) with Petrie Hosken. She told me she has been simply inundated with callers, all of them utterly unconvinced that human influence has made any significant on so-called “Global Warming”. She was desperate to get a few balancing calls from people who do believe in AGW but just couldn’t find any.

Can you imagine this happening a year ago? Or even a month ago? Until Climategate, we “Sceptics” were considered freaks – almost as bad as Holocaust deniers – beyond the pale of reasonable balanced discussion. Suddenly we’re the norm. Climategate has finally given us the chance to express openly what many of us secretly felt all along:

AGW is about raising taxes; increasing state control; about a few canny hucksters who’ve leapt on the bandwagon fleecing us rotten with their taxpayer subsidised windfarms and their carbon-trading; about the sour, anti-capitalist impulses of sandal-wearing vegans and lapsed Communists who loathe the idea of freedom and a functioning market economy.

We know it’s all a crock and we’re not going to take it.

This is our Berlin Wall moment! They can’t stop us now!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "scientist" speaks his "truth". AGAIN!!!

http://www.bluegrasspundit.com/2009/11/ignorant-al-gore-must-believe-w e-live.html

Quote:
Ignorant Al Gore Must Believe We Live On The Sun (video)
Wednesday, November 18, 2009

In response to a geothermal energy question by Conan O’Brien, Al Gore claimed the temperature of the Earth's core is millions of degrees. The actual temperature of the Earth's core is at most around 9,000° Fahrenheit. On the other hand, the temperature of the Sun's interior is 27,000,000° Fahrenheit. The Goracle is only off by a few million degrees unless he believes we live on the Sun. This is what happens when you pretend to be a scientific expert after making a "C" and a "D" in your only two college semesters of natural science.

Transcript from Hot Air:

Conan: Now, what about … you talk in the book about geothermal energy …

Al: Yeah, yeah.

Conan: and that is, as I understand it, using the heat that’s generated from the core of the earth …

Al: Yeah.

Conan: … to create energy, and it sounds to me like an evil plan by Lex Luthor to defeat Superman. Can you, can you tell me, is this a viable solution, geothermal energy?

Al: It definitely is, and it’s a relatively new one. People think about geothermal energy — when they think about it at all — in terms of the hot water bubbling up in some places, but two kilometers or so down in most places there are these incredibly hot rocks, ’cause the interior of the earth is extremely hot, several million degrees, and the crust of the earth is hot …
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/11/26/ lawrence-solomon-new-zealand-s-climategate.aspx

More from the Climate Liars.

Quote:
Lawrence Solomon: New Zealand's Climategate
Posted: November 26, 2009, 3:14 PM by Lawrence Solomon

An agency of the New Zealand government has been cooking the books to create a warming trend where none exists, according to a joint research project by global warming skeptics at the Climate Conversation Group and the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition. The chief cook? Dr. Jim Salinger, considered one of the country's top scientists, who began the graph in the 1980s when he was at the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia in the UK. CRU, of course, has become ground zero of Climategate at Dr. Salinger has maintained close relations with CRU since, as seen in the Climategate emails.

What do the uncooked books show? Rather than warming over the last hundred years, New Zealand's temperature has been steady.

For the full story, visit the site of the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition, here.

For the rebuttal by New Zealand's National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research, visit here.

LawrenceSolomon@nextcity.com

Lawrence Solomon is executive director of Energy Probe and Urban Renaissance Institute and author of The Deniers: The world-renowned scientists who stood up against global warming hysteria, political persecution, and fraud.

Read more: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/11/26/ lawrence-solomon-new-zealand-s-climategate.aspx#ixzz0Y41qXyCv
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

item8 wrote:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/11/26/ lawrence-solomon-new-zealand-s-climategate.aspx

More from the Climate Liars.


The liars in this case being the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition which isn't made up of climate scientists, but is just a group of global warming skeptics who gave themselves a fancy title.
And they just got caught combining temperature data from different places to get rid of the inconvenient warming trend in New Zealand.

This story is an object lesson in how well financed lies and distortions are foisted on an unaware public.
Right up banjoboy's street.

"The cranks in the NZ Climate “Science” Coalition have sunk to new lows in a desperate attempt to cash in on the far-right driven furore about the Hadley CRU data theft. Here’s an extract from a press release which was doing the rounds of NZ’s newsrooms this morning:

New Zealand may have its own “Climategate”, including manipulation of temperature readings, according to a combined research project undertaken by members of the Climate Conversation Group and the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition. The researchers claim that temperature readings from seven weather stations throughout New Zealand have been adjusted to show a higher degree of warming than is justified by a study of the original raw data.

The author of the press release and the “research project” into NZ’s long term temperature record is blogger Richard Treadgold, not unknown to readers of Hot Topic. Unfortunately for him, and for the credibility of any of the members of the NZ Climate “Science” Coalition, Treadgold’s approach to the issue is ignorant, his results meaningless, and he can have no excuse for not knowing he was wrong. Worse, Treadgold, Dunleavy and the rest of the NZ CSC seem determined to smear NZ’s best-known and most respected climatologist, Jim Salinger (who did much of the early work on NZ’s temperature record), based on little more than straightforward lies. Their press release continues:

“NIWA’s official graph (done originally by Dr Jim Salinger, who features also in the emails leaked from the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia) shows considerable warming, which they give as 0.92°C per century, saying this is consistent with global warming over the 20th century. But the actual temperature readings taken from the thermometers show an almost flat trend for 150 years.

“These figures all come from NIWA. So, why are they so different from each other? Because NIWA has adjusted the earliest temperature readings downwards by up to 1.3°C, which has the effect of introducing a false ‘warming’ as the graph then ‘climbs’ to the present day. It’s a disgrace. So far, neither Dr Salinger nor NIWA has revealed why they did this,” said Mr Treadgold.

The real disgrace is that this analysis has been conducted by a team seemingly hell bent on ignoring the facts, preferring instead to make up their own.

Temperatures before the mid-1920s were recorded at Thorndon, near sea level, but then the recording station moved to Kelburn at 125 m above sea level. It’s pretty basic meteorology that temperatures fall as you move above sea level, so the two stations are not directly comparable. Treadgold affects not to know this.

http://hot-topic.co.nz/nz-sceptics-lie-about-temp-records-try-to-smear -top-scientist/

It's the same old story, actual reality does not comply with the preferred economic projections.
So what to do?
Easy!
You alter peoples perception of reality by lying to them.
Which is Corporate Policy 101.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

item8 wrote:
The "scientist" speaks his "truth". AGAIN!!!

http://www.bluegrasspundit.com/2009/11/ignorant-al-gore-must-believe-w e-live.html

Quote:
Ignorant Al Gore Must Believe We Live On The Sun (video)
Wednesday, November 18, 2009

In response to a geothermal energy question by Conan O’Brien, Al Gore claimed the temperature of the Earth's core is millions of degrees.


There is no way of measuring the exact temperature of the Earth's core, but it can be estimated theoretically:
"The inner core of the Earth, its innermost hottest part as detected by seismological studies, is a primarily solid sphere about 1,220 km (758 mi) in radius, only about 70% that of the Moon. It is believed to consist of an iron-nickel alloy, and it may have a temperature similar to the Sun's surface".
E. R. Engdahl; E. A. Flynn and R. P. Massé (1974). "Differential PkiKP travel times and the radius of the core". Geophys. J. R. Astr. Soc. 39: 457–463

If the surface of the sun is defined as the radiative zone, with the convective zone roughly analogous to its atmosphere and the photosphere analogous to the stratosphere, then Mr. Gore is correct.

item8 wrote:
The actual temperature of the Earth's core is at most around 9,000° Fahrenheit.


No, that's incorrect.
That's the temperature of the photosphere, which would be like comparing the warm temperature of the Earth's surface to the sub-zero temperatures in the stratosphere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun

item8 wrote:
On the other hand, the temperature of the Sun's interior is 27,000,000° Fahrenheit. The Goracle is only off by a few million degrees unless he believes we live on the Sun. This is what happens when you pretend to be a scientific expert after making a "C" and a "D" in your only two college semesters of natural science.


On the contrary, your stupid correction is what happens when you take your scientific "facts" with no context from a Christmas cracker, have no understanding of structure, not even a secondary school level science background, and then imagine you know what you're talking about.
Another great example of how not to score points from banjoboy

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chek wrote:

Intentionally or not GSTT, you contributed to the corporate noise and distortion machine which did nothing to clarify the truth of the situation, but did add another layer to the lie.

Intentionally, or not.


If you're going to be that technical chek, you have to confront the 'intentional or not' lie that the pro-AGW rep tells in the RT video.

He says malaria has never occured in his country before when according to various historical sources it most certainly has.

Intentionally or not he has added to the idea that pro-AGW representatives are not telling the truth.

Intentionally or not.

Apart from that point/mistake/lie made in the RT video, I dont believe posting them up adds weight to the anti-stance.

In my opinion, in both videos but especially the fox one, both those arguing appear rather childish and comedic. That's the sole reason I posted them. The video titles are perhaps unfortunately biased but written by the original posters and for that I claim no responsibility.

In future I will find neutrally titled sources to avoid confusion.

But I have to say that some of those on both the pro and anti side of things appear to have an agenda set with their stances.

I.e. Pro-AGW - "AGW is real, give us your money so we can save the planet and get very rich in the meantime."

Anti - AGW - "AGW is not real, ignore the freak weather and carry on as normal & dont blame industry.

Something's gotta give.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GodSaveTheTeam wrote:
But I have to say that some of those on both the pro and anti side of things appear to have an agenda set with their stances.

I.e. Pro-AGW - "AGW is real, give us your money so we can save the planet and get very rich in the meantime."

Anti - AGW - "AGW is not real, ignore the freak weather and carry on as normal & dont blame industry.

Something's gotta give.


Since when did the rich ever lose?
I tried to explain this to QTClogs a while ago on another thread.
They give $80 to the Repubs, and $20 to the Dems.
They spend $10 billion on an anti-AGW campaign and $500K on greenwashing. Either way, they're on the winning side - but they try to ensure their preferred outcome.
I don't think he was convinced and is still looking for lizards
or their equivalent somewhere in the conspiracy, but basic greed is so mundane they're unnecessary.

Forget having money in the bank, wealth means owning the ability to control outcomes to your own benefit (which boil down to access to resources both natural and human).

Meanwhile nature couldn't care less what we intend, regardless of our reasons for action or inaction.
The deniers are only fooling themselves and those who would prefer to be fooled, rather than facing up to that reality, and reality can (and will) be harsh.

But I take hope that a million years of survival will see us through and that the lunatic fringe is just that - a fringe full of huff, puff and gorged on falsities.

Personally, I'm hoping that this episode of our collective history in particular will be a defining moment in demonstrating why concentrations of wealth and power as we are seeing them in action now
cannot be tolerated, as they are de facto contrary to the common good and corrupt everything down to their own level.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

item8 wrote:
Things have come to a pretty pass when it is the Thatcherites and the Torygraph which are the voices of reason regarding this gigantic Man-made climate change scam.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100018056/climategat e-this-is-our-berlin-wall-moment/

Quote:
Climategate: this is our Berlin Wall moment!

By James Delingpole Politics Last updated: November 26th, 2009

AGW is about raising taxes; increasing state control; about a few canny hucksters who’ve leapt on the bandwagon fleecing us rotten with their taxpayer subsidised windfarms and their carbon-trading; about the sour, anti-capitalist impulses of sandal-wearing vegans and lapsed Communists who loathe the idea of freedom and a functioning market economy.

We know it’s all a crock and we’re not going to take it.

This is our Berlin Wall moment! They can’t stop us now!


Real shouting at the darkness stuff there banjoboy.
I can tell you're impressed at that level of guff.

That's practically a direct lift from a Discount Munchkin rant, which with various substitutions for AGW to suit the
circumstances, he's been pounding the table with for over 30 years.

Now he's an old man forced to gig around North America in the
winter for an income. His factual lies are so easy to expose it's
beyond being amusing, he's held in contempt by all except
the uneducated morons foolish enough to idolise him, and
he suffers from an almost unique combination of pig-ugliness and vanity.

A lot of good it's done him, not.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.examiner.com/x-18425-LA-County-Nonpartisan-Examiner~y2009m1 1d26-Climategate-falsified-data-suppressed-evidence-professional-journ al-censorship-carbon-tax-hoax

More lies of the Climate Liars.

Quote:
Climategate: falsified data, suppressed evidence, professional journal censorship = carbon tax scam
November 26, 8:52 AMLA County Nonpartisan ExaminerCarl Herman

Global temperatures have declined since 1998 while carbon emissions have risen, undermining the scientific argument for global warming. Now, the public release of hundreds of internal e-mails hacked from University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit (CRU) reveal data was changed in order to fit the model of global warming and support a global carbon tax and trade. This, suspiciously after CRU claimed to have lost or destroyed the data that would allow independent verification of CRU's claims.

Initial planning of the tax would cost Americans ~$100 billion every year, an average of ~$1,000 per each household's $50,000 annual income.
CRU supplied climate data that was the leading foundation of the UN’s IPCC report concluding "Warming of the climate system is unequivocal." The IPCC report is the foundation of the Copenhagen Climate Conference, where nations will discuss reduction and taxing of carbon emissions in order to slow the alleged unequivocal warming.

Opponents assert the hypothesis of global warming is falsified from declining earth temperatures since 1998, sun activity as the driving cause of temperature change confirmed with temperature increases on our solar system’s other planets, a medieval warm period of 500 years that became a little ice age independent of human activity, and that human causes of carbon dioxide emissions account for far less than 1% of the total. Carbon dioxide is the gas most contributing to reflecting heat within earth’s atmosphere (information, documentation and data here, here, and here).

The following 8-minute interview of Alex Jones explains and shows that independent university measurements were accurate and “official” data was fraudulent (and here). The hacked e-mails reveal the data was contrived. The global carbon tax would also be a new exotic derivative that would increase consumer prices. People within the US government are complicit in possible criminal fraud; members of Congress are initiating investigation. Other counties' legislators are also responding; Australia here.

The revealed e-mails show that a primary author of the IPCC report calling for human-cause carbon reduction, Kevin Trenberth, states clearly to his colleague Tom Wigley (e-mail Oct. 14, 2009) that he doesn’t know what the role of human carbon emissions is, in stark contrast to his official report of certainty to reduce them or face global disaster:


How come you do not agree with a statement that says we are no where close to knowing where energy is going or whether clouds are changing to make the planet brighter. We are not close to balancing the energy budget. The fact that we can not account for what is happening in the climate system makes any consideration of geoengineering quite hopeless as we will never be able to tell if it is successful or not! It is a travesty!



An example of data that was egregiously changed:

At the insistence of editors of the Royal Society's Philosophical Transactions B the data has leaked into the open - and Yamal's mystery is no more.
From this we know that the Yamal data set uses just 12 trees from a larger set to produce its dramatic recent trend. Yet many more were cored, and a larger data set (of 34) from the vicinity shows no dramatic recent warming, and warmer temperatures in the middle ages.
In all there are 252 cores in the CRU Yamal data set, of which ten were alive 1990. All 12 cores selected show strong growth since the mid-19th century. The implication is clear: the dozen were cherry-picked.

For analysis from Ian Plimer, best-selling author countering alleged global warming data, go here. Climatologist Dr. Tim Ball explains the fraudulent manipulation of data here. New Zealand's Science Climate Coalition, here. Cost of carbon tax in Japan, here.

Below is House Committee testimony of Al Gore denying any data that contradicted the basis for a global carbon tax that would cost Americans hundreds of billions of dollars in new taxes. Another great summary video follows.

Expect heavy spin for damage control from the "mainstream" media that so brutally lied to justify and cover US Wars of Aggression. Expect the same confusion of reporting and political rhetoric you experienced from the so-called "bailout" that transfers TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars to financial elite. The last video shows the type of reporting you can expect.
This is another example of the need for Truth and Reconciliation to peel-off those involved to break-open all areas of criminal and harmful actions of our government. Those involved willing to have a “Scrooge conversion” can provide powerful information to disclose and end these actions harmful to humanity. Until such time, I encourage men and women in military, government, and law enforcement to use all their legal authority to lawfully refuse and stop illegal orders and acts.

As always, please share this article with all who can benefit. If you appreciate my work, please subscribe by clicking under the title (it’s free). Please peruse my archive of articles for your use in building a brighter future.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Dodgy site" with "dodgy" scientist with the "wrong" politics pauses from denying the Holocaust to give his "wrong" conclusions dictated to him by "big oil".

http://www.prisonplanet.com/uk-scientist-case-for-climate-fears-is-blo wn-to-smithereens-whole-theory-should-be-destroyed-and-discarded-and-u n-conference-should-be-closed.html

Quote:
UK Scientist: ‘Case for climate fears is blown to smithereens

Marc Morano, Climate Depot, Fri Nov 27, 2009

UK astrophysicist Piers Corbyn, of the long range solar forecast group Weather Action, declared that the ClimateGate revelations have rendered man-made global warming fears “false.”

“The case is blown to smithereens and this whole theory should be destroyed and discarded and Copenhagen conference should be closed,” Corbyn said in a contentious on air television exchange with an environmental activist with Russia’s WWF. The live TV debate with Corbyn appeared on Moscow’s RT TV on November 25, 2009. The RT TV’s segment was titled “Heating Cheating.” See Full Video of Debate here.

“The world is cooling and has been cooling for 7 years and the leading scientists, so-called ’scientists’ have been trying to hide that evidence,” Corbyn said in reference to hacked emails showing top UN IPCC scientists apparently conspiring to manipulate temperature data and exclude scientific studies from peer-review that they did not agree with.

“We should end this anti-scientific nonsense now,” Corbyn said.

“The data, real data, over the last one thousand, ten thousand or million years, shows there is no relationship between carbon dioxide and world temperatures or climate extremes. Now we can see that actually the people in charge of data have been fiddling it, and they have been hiding the real decline in world temperatures in an attempt to keep their so called moral high ground,” Corbyn told host Bill Dod and Aleksey Kokorin, the Climate Program Coordinator for WWF in Russia.

The upcoming UN global warming summit in Copenhagen is a “complete waste of time,” according to Corbyn.

UK Scientist: Case for climate fears is blown to smithereens 071009banner3

‘A scandal’

“The Copenhagen jamboree is a scandal and it must be stopped,” he added.

“There is a gigantic bandwagon run by governments who want to control world energy supplies and hold back development in the third world. This thing they are doing now is just the same as they are doing in the banking crisis, it is creating a whole bubble of false values,” Corbyn explained.

Corbyn said the ClimateGate revelations further revealed that man-made climate fears are not scientifically valid.

“Their claims are false, I repeat, they are false, and this theory they’ve got is like the titanic and it will crash. I would suggest that honest green campaigners who want to preserve biodiversity should get off this [man-made global warming] bandwagon before it sinks,” Corbyn explained.

“Carbon dioxide levels are driven by temps, not the other way around. There have been big peaks in CO2 in past…carbon dioxide is actually a good thing for the world,” Corbyn explained. “More CO2 makes plants and animals more efficient,” he added.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://infowars.net/articles/november2009/261109Milloy.htm

Quote:
Author Points To "Climategate’s Perry Mason Moment"
IPCC assessment on climate change must be rejected as a valid scientific publication

Steve Watson, Infowars.net, Thursday, Nov 26, 2009

Author Steve Milloy hits on another smoking gun to emerge from the "ClimateGate" emails scandal today, referring to it as a "Perry Mason moment".

Milloy, publisher of the website Junkscience.com, reveals that in 2007 he privately surveyed some of the scientists involved in the scandal with interesting results in light of their leaked communications.

Kevin Trenberth, one of the lead authors of the UN's IPCC report on climate change was one of those who responded to the survey, Milloy notes:

One question asked:

Which best describes the role of manmade CO2 emissions in climate change?

Trenberth checked off the following answer:

Manmade CO2 emissions drive climate change, but other natural and human-related factors are also important.

Milloy notes that this is interesting given that Trenberth's now exposed private emails reveal a different opinion.

In an October 14 email to fellow alarmist Tom Wigley, Trenberth plaintively writes:

How come you do not agree with a statement that says we are no where close to knowing where energy is going or whether clouds are changing to make the planet brighter. We are not close to balancing the energy budget. The fact that we can not account for what is happening in the climate system makes any consideration of geoengineering quite hopeless as we will never be able to tell if it is successful or not! It is a travesty!

"So — while in October 2007 Trenberth seemed pretty convinced that he understood energy flows in the climate system, two years later he underwent such an about-face that he is now trying to get his colleagues to admit, at least privately, that they really don’t know squat." Milloy writes.

Milloy has gathered his fair share of detractors over the years as a skeptic of the anthropogenic global warming theory, mainly due to the fact that he has some organizational ties to ExxonMobil. However, the raw data of his revelations speaks for itself.

The IPCC's most recent assessment report, to which Kevin Trenberth prominently contributed, was completed in 2007, concluding that "Warming of the climate system is unequivocal" and "Most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic (human) greenhouse gas concentrations."

That report still stands as the centerpiece driving government policy on climate science worldwide. It has forged a direct and incontrovertible move toward the implementation of carbon taxes and cap and trade systems, to be further actioned at the upcoming the Copenhagen talks.

Trenberth's emails show him to be at best morally and professionally culpable for allowing unproven theory to be written up as "unequivocal" scientific fact. At worst they reveal him and his colleagues to be criminally involved in an agenda to influence government policy through distortion of the facts and outright lies.

In either case the IPCC's report should be immediately rejected as a valid scientific document in the light of the ClimateGate revelations. Instead it seems that it will continue to be upheld as the pivotal force behind climate related negotiations and legislation.

"They have no shame, and they will not go away. So our struggle against them will continue." Milloy concludes, "The difference now is that we are no longer The Skeptics. We are The Vindicated."
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of graphs and facts to highlight the lies of the Climate Liars if you visit the site.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/26/warwick-hughes-shows-how-jones-p ut-bias-in-australian-temperatures/

Quote:
Warwick Hughes shows how Jones selections put bias in Australian Temperatures
26 11 2009

Jones et al 1986 methodical insertion of warming bias

by Warwick Hughes

Jones et al 1986 looked at 86 Australian stations and rejected 46 (25 Short term – 21 long term). Of the 40 they used 27 were short term and 13 long term. Of the long term there were 5 large cities.

The 27 short term stations were mostly only quoted from 1951 onward – regardless of what data was available. It just so happens that the years just post WWII were not prominently warm in Australia so an “automatic” warming trend was reinforced into the CRU Australian component.
Here are 11 examples where Jones et al systematically truncated pre-1951 data or ignored more rural data around many small town Australian stations. These graphics and text have been extracted from a 1992 vintage Word doc that somehow survived the decades and how many HDD’s.

Port Hedland
The aerodrome records 1951-80 shows a clear warming trend. Marble Bar, 150 kms south east, shows a similar trend over that period but a flat trend over 80 odd years.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/three-things-you-absolutely-must-know-abo ut-climategate/

Quote:
Three Things You Absolutely Must Know About Climategate

This could prove to be climate science's Vietnam.
November 24, 2009 - by Iain Murray

They’re calling it “Climategate.” The scandal that the suffix –gate implies is the state of climate science over the past decade or so revealed by a thousand or so emails, documents, and computer code sets between various prominent scientists released following a leak from the Climate Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia in the UK.

This may seem obscure, but the science involved is being used to justify the diversion of literally trillions of dollars of the world’s wealth in order to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by phasing out fossil fuels. The CRU is the Pentagon of global warming science, and these documents are its Pentagon Papers.

Here are three things everyone should know about the Climategate Papers. Links are provided so that the full context of every quote can be seen by anyone interested.

First, the scientists discuss manipulating data to get their preferred results. The most prominently featured scientists are paleoclimatologists, who reconstruct historical temperatures and who were responsible for a series of reconstructions that seemed to show a sharp rise in temperatures well above historical variation in recent decades.

In 1999, Phil Jones, the head of CRU, wrote to activist scientist Michael “Mike” Mann that he has just “completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps … to hide the decline”(0942777075). This refers to a decline in temperatures in recent years revealed by the data he had been reconstructing that conflicted with the observed temperature record. The inconvenient data was therefore hidden under a completely different set of data. Some “trick.”

Mann later (2003) announced that “it would be nice to try to ‘contain’ the putative ‘MWP,’ even if we don’t yet have a hemispheric mean reconstruction available that far back” (1054736277). The MWP is the Medieval Warm Period, when temperatures may have been higher than today. Mann’s desire to “contain” this phenomenon even in the absence of any data suggesting that this is possible is a clear indication of a desire to manipulate the science. There are other examples of putting political/presentational considerations before the science throughout the collection.

Secondly, scientists on several occasions discussed methods of subverting the scientific peer review process to ensure that skeptical papers had no access to publication. In 2003, Tom Wigley of the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado, complained that paleoclimatologist Hans von Storch was responsible for “the publication of nonsense science ‘in order to stimulate debate’” and that they “must get rid of von Storch” (1051190249) as an editor of the journal Climate Research (he indeed subsequently resigned).

In 2005, Michael Mann said that there was a “fundamental problem w/ GRL now,” referring to the journal Geophysical Research Letters published by the American Geophysical Union (AGU), because “they have published far too many deeply flawed contrarian papers in the past year or so” and “it is probably best to do an end run around GRL now where possible.” Tom Wigley responded that “we could go through official AGU channels to get him [the editor of GRL] ousted” (1106322460). A few months later, the editor of GRL having left his post, Mann comments, “The GRL leak may have been plugged up now w/ new editorial leadership there” (1132094873).

Having seemingly succeeded with Climate Research and Geophysical Research Letters, the most recent target of the scientists’ ire has been Weather, a journal of the Royal Meteorological Society (RMS). Phil Jones commented in March 2009, “I’m having a dispute with the new editor of Weather. I’ve complained about him to the RMS Chief Exec. If I don’t get him to back down, I won’t be sending any more papers to any RMS journals and I’ll be resigning from the RMS” (1237496573).

This issue is all the more important because the scientists involved in these discussions have repeatedly accused their critics of being irrelevant because they fail to publish in the peer reviewed literature. For example, in October this year, Mr. Mann told Andy Revkin of the New York Times:

[L]egitimate scientific skepticism is exercised through formal scientific circles, in particular the peer review process. Those such as [Stephen] McIntyre [the target of much of the criticism in the CRU Papers] who operate almost entirely outside of this system are not to be trusted.

If you are saying on the one hand that you will not take notice of someone until they have been published while on the other you are working behind the scenes to stop any such publication, I would venture to suggest that you are not operating with any degree of bona fides either towards the media or the legitimate scientific process.

Finally, the scientists worked to circumvent the Freedom of Information process of the United Kingdom. Nowhere is this better evidenced than in the email reproduced in full below (minus Dr. Jones’ contact details):

From: Phil Jones <p.jones@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: “Michael E. Mann” <mann@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: IPCC & FOI
Date: Thu May 29 11:04:11 2008

Mike,

Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?
Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis.
Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don’t
have his new email address.
We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.
I see that CA claim they discovered the 1945 problem in the Nature paper!!
Cheers
Phil

The context in the subject header is clearly the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOI), while AR4 refers to the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. What is most important to know here is that, according to the Taxpayers’ Alliance in the UK, “at least one FOI request on exactly this correspondence had apparently been submitted by a David Holland on May 5th 2008.”

The Freedom of Information Act, however, explicitly forbids deletion of any material subject to a FOI request. The penalty for such a criminal act is a fine of up to £5,000. Presumably being found guilty of such an act, or even suggesting it, would also bring about significant disciplinary procedures at any reputable university. A complaint has been made to the British information commissioner.

This is, however, just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to attitudes toward FOI. Numerous other references are made about ways to avoid divulging information (the following summaries are by the blogger Bishop Hill):

Tom Wigley discusses how to deal with the advent of FoI law in UK. Jones says use IPR argument to hold onto code. Says data is covered by agreements with outsiders and that CRU will be “hiding behind them.”(1106338806)

Jones says that UK climate organisations are coordinating themselves to resist FoI. They got advice from the Information Commissioner [!](1219239172)

Jones tells Mann that he is sending station data. Says that if McIntyre requests it under FoI he will delete it rather than hand it over. Says he will hide behind data protection laws. Says Rutherford screwed up big time by creating an FTP directory for Osborn. Says Wigley worried he will have to release his model code. (1107454306)

There appears to be a prima facie case that there was a conspiracy to prevent the release of information subject to FOI.

There are many other disturbing revelations in the CRU Papers, including a particularly disturbing assessment by a computer programmer of the state of CRU data. These have yet to be fully analyzed.

So what does this all mean? It does not mean that there is no warming trend or that mankind has not been responsible for at least some of the warming. To claim that as result of these documents is clearly a step too far. However, it is clear that at least one branch of climate science — paleoclimatology — has become hopelessly politicized to the point of engaging in unethical and possibly illegal behavior.

To the extent that paleoclimatology is an important part of the scientific case for action regarding global warming, urgent reassessments need to be made. In the meantime, all those responsible for political action on global warming should stop the process pending the results of inquiries, investigations, and any criminal proceedings. What cannot happen is the process carrying on as if nothing has happened.

This could prove to be climate science’s Vietnam.

Iain Murray is Vice-President for Strategy at the Competitive Enterprise Institute in Washington DC, and author of "The Really Inconvenient Truths: Seven environmental catastrophes liberals don't want you to know about - because they helped cause them," from Regnery.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:14 pm    Post subject: ****** READERS' POLL ******* Reply with quote

As we know, there are 300 a day of you idle crunts reading this so now's the time to

********* MAKE YOUR VOICES HEARD ************.

1) Who thinks that banjoboy v.8.0 really has something this time?

2) Who thinks he's spamming desperately like a spambot or a
$10 whore on crystal meth gone wild?

3) Who thinks it's about time he stopped using this forum for
his spambombing campaign and actually DISCUSSED
THE ISSUES once he's been shown to be mistaken on them?

4) Who thinks all the attention seeking and pulpit-pounding dross he posts
actually just gives him an erection?

5) Who wonders how these morons co-opted the word "truther"

6) Who wonders wattsupwithtony when he ignores stuff like:
item8 wrote:
Why of course you are Tony.
You are the arbiter of fair play here.
Of course you won't "suspend" the liar for his incessant "dumbing down" just slap his wrists.
Its the "truthers" you have to suspend isn't it you ******* weasel!!
What a c***!


I'm hoping to not so much as see a bleedin' computer for the next 2 days so don't be shy - vote vote vote, early and often.

Bye for now.

_________________
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.

It's them or us.
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paul wright
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idle crunts? Maybe just people who suspect the weather and the political climate is being fixed.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100018173/climategat e-sack-no-longer-credible-michael-mann-from-ipcc-urges-climatologist/? utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

What the evildoers do to the good guys! What they have been doing for years.

Quote:
Climategate: sack 'no longer credible' Michael Mann from IPCC urges climatologist

By James Delingpole Politics Last updated: November 27th, 2009

Not everyone shares the BBC’s rosy view of discredited Climategate scientist Michael Mann (inventor of the roundly discredited Hockey Stick graph and unlikely Youtube comedy musical star) (hat tip: Bishop Hill) (Still less will they do so after the gobsmacking revelations by Steve McIntyre that in his latest paper, he’s actually got his data UPSIDE DOWN!)

One of his IPCC co-authors Eduardo Zorita has demanded that Mann should be banned from contributing to future reports because his scientific assessments are “not credible any more.” Zorita also calls for the barring of CRU’s director Phil Jones and another IPCC lead author, Stefan Rahmstorf.

Zorita, who works in the paleoclimate department of the Institute of Coastal Research, has issued a statement on his website in which he complains that the “scientific debate has been in many instances hijacked to advance other agendas.”

“These words do not mean that I think anthropogenic climate change is a hoax. On the contrary, it is a question which we have to be very well aware of. But I am also aware that in this thick atmosphere -and I am not speaking of greenhouse gases now- editors, reviewers and authors of alternative studies, analysis, interpretations,even based on the same data we have at our disposal, have been bullied and subtly blackmailed. In this atmosphere, Ph D students are often tempted to tweak their data so as to fit the ‘politically correct picture’. Some, or many issues, about climate change are still not well known. Policy makers should be aware of the attempts to hide these uncertainties under a unified picture. I had the ‘pleasure’ to experience all this in my area of research.”

Zorita was one of the contributing authors to the IPCC’s Fourth Assessment Report. He’s unlikely to be asked to contribute to the Fifth. Indeed, as he ruefully acknowledges, this brave admission could well be the death of his career:

By writing these lines I will just probably achieve that a few of my future studies will, again, not see the light of publication.

Yep. I think the poor fellow’s right. Never mind the damning revelations. The vested interests behind AGW are going to make darned sure that that AGW bandwagon keeps roll roll rollin’ along.

And never mind which honest, decent saps get squashed under its wheels.
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item8
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/27/more-on-the-niwa-new-zealand-dat a-adjustment-story/

Liars liars LIARS!


Quote:
More on the NIWA New Zealand data adjustment story
27 11 2009

NIWA issued a response statement regarding the charges leveled by The NZ Climate Science Coalition here:

http://www.niwa.co.nz/our-science/climate/news/all/niwa-confirms-tempe rature-rise

They say:

Warming over New Zealand through the past century is unequivocal.

NIWA’s analysis of measured temperatures uses internationally accepted techniques, including making adjustments for changes such as movement of measurement sites. For example, in Wellington, early temperature measurements were made near sea level, but in 1928 the measurement site was moved from Thorndon (3 metres above sea level) to Kelburn (125 m above sea level). The Kelburn site is on average 0.8°C cooler than Thorndon, because of the extra height above sea level.

I’m not too impressed, especially when you see where the weather station for National Institute of Water and Atmosphere (NIWA) is, right on the rooftop next to the air conditioners:

Note also the anemometer mast, identifying the weather station Click for a larger image

Here is the station survey: NIWA_station_survey (PDF) and the Google Earth KML file

Thanks to: Dieuwe de Boer who did a good portion of station surveys in New Zealand last year.

The NZ Climate Science Coalition responds:

NIWA’s explanation raises major new questions

The NIWA climate controversy took a new twist tonight with the release of new data from the government run climate agency.

Reeling from claims that it has massaged data to show a 150 year warming trend where there isn’t one, NIWA’s chief climate scientist David Wratt, an IPCC vice-chair on the 2007 AR4 report, issued a news release stating adjustments had been made to compensate for changes in sensor locations over the years.

While such an adjustment is valid, it needs to be fully explained so other scientists can test the reasonableness of the adjustment.

Wratt is refusing to release data his organisation claims to have justifying adjustments on other weather stations, meaning the science cannot be reviewed. However, he has released information relating to Wellington temperature readings, and they make for interesting reading.

Here’s the rub. Up until 1927, temperatures for Wellington had been taken at Thorndon, only 3 m above sea level and an inner-city suburb. That station closed and, as I suspected in my earlier post, there is no overlap data allowing a comparison between Thorndon and Kelburn, where the gauge moved, at an altitude of 135 metres.

With no overlap of continuous temperature readings from both sites, there is no way to truly know how temperatures should be properly adjusted to compensate for the location shift.

Wratt told Investigate earlier there was international agreement on how to make temperature adjustments, and in the news release tonight he elaborates on that:

“Thus, if one measurement station is closed (or data missing for a period), it is acceptable to replace it with another nearby site provided an adjustment is made to the average temperature difference between the sites.”

Except, except, it all hinges on the quality of the reasoning that goes into making that adjustment. If it were me, I would have slung up a temperature station in the disused location again and worked out over a year the average offset between Thorndon and Kelburn. It’s not perfect, after all we are talking about a switch in 1928, but it would be something. But NIWA didn’t do that.

Instead, as their news release records, they simply guessed that the readings taken at Wellington Airport would be similar to Thorndon, simply because both sites are only a few metres above sea level.

Airport records temps about 0.79C above Kelburn on average, so NIWA simply said to themselves, “that’ll do” and made the Airport/Kelburn offset the official offset for Thorndon/Kelburn as well, even though no comparison study of the latter scenario has ever been done.

Here’s the raw data, from NIWA tonight, illustrating temp readings at their three Wellington locations since 1900:


What’s interesting is that if you leave Kelburn out of the equation, Thorndon in 1910 is not far below Airport 2010. Perhaps that gave NIWA some confidence that the two locations were equivalent, but I’m betting Thorndon a hundred years ago was very different from an international airport now.

Nonetheless, NIWA took its one-size-fits all “adjustment and altered Thordon and the Airport to match Kelburn for the sake of the data on their website and for official climate purposes.

In their own words, NIWA describe their logic thus.

* Where there is an overlap in time between two records (such as Wellington Airport and Kelburn), it is a simple matter to calculate the average offset and adjust one site relative to the other.
* Wellington Airport is +0.79°C warmer than Kelburn, which matches well with measurements in many parts of the world for how rapidly temperature decreases with altitude.
* Thorndon (closed 31 Dec 1927) has no overlap with Kelburn (opened 1 Jan 1928). For the purpose of illustration, we have applied the same offset to Thorndon as was calculated for the Airport.
* The final “adjusted” temperature curve is used to draw inferences about Wellington temperature change over the 20th century. The records must be adjusted for the change to a different Wellington location

Now, it may be that there was a good and obvious reason to adjust Wellington temps. My question remains, however: is applying a temperature example from 15km away in a different climate zone a valid way of rearranging historical data?

And my other question to David Wratt also remains: we’d all like to see the metholdology and reasoning behind adjustments on all the other sites as well.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/506735 1/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html

More from a "dodgy" site and people with the "wrong" politics.

Quote:
Rise of sea levels is 'the greatest lie ever told'

The uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story, writes Christopher Booker.

Christopher Booker, Published: 6:25PM GMT 28 Mar 2009

If one thing more than any other is used to justify proposals that the world must spend tens of trillions of dollars on combating global warming, it is the belief that we face a disastrous rise in sea levels. The Antarctic and Greenland ice caps will melt, we are told, warming oceans will expand, and the result will be catastrophe.

Although the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) only predicts a sea level rise of 59cm (17 inches) by 2100, Al Gore in his Oscar-winning film An Inconvenient Truth went much further, talking of 20 feet, and showing computer graphics of cities such as Shanghai and San Francisco half under water. We all know the graphic showing central London in similar plight. As for tiny island nations such as the Maldives and Tuvalu, as Prince Charles likes to tell us and the Archbishop of Canterbury was again parroting last week, they are due to vanish.

But if there is one scientist who knows more about sea levels than anyone else in the world it is the Swedish geologist and physicist Nils-Axel Mörner, formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change. And the uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner, who for 35 years has been using every known scientific method to study sea levels all over the globe, is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story.

Despite fluctuations down as well as up, "the sea is not rising," he says. "It hasn't risen in 50 years." If there is any rise this century it will "not be more than 10cm (four inches), with an uncertainty of plus or minus 10cm". And quite apart from examining the hard evidence, he says, the elementary laws of physics (latent heat needed to melt ice) tell us that the apocalypse conjured up by Al Gore and Co could not possibly come about.

The reason why Dr Mörner, formerly a Stockholm professor, is so certain that these claims about sea level rise are 100 per cent wrong is that they are all based on computer model predictions, whereas his findings are based on "going into the field to observe what is actually happening in the real world".

When running the International Commission on Sea Level Change, he launched a special project on the Maldives, whose leaders have for 20 years been calling for vast sums of international aid to stave off disaster. Six times he and his expert team visited the islands, to confirm that the sea has not risen for half a century. Before announcing his findings, he offered to show the inhabitants a film explaining why they had nothing to worry about. The government refused to let it be shown.

Similarly in Tuvalu, where local leaders have been calling for the inhabitants to be evacuated for 20 years, the sea has if anything dropped in recent decades. The only evidence the scaremongers can cite is based on the fact that extracting groundwater for pineapple growing has allowed seawater to seep in to replace it. Meanwhile, Venice has been sinking rather than the Adriatic rising, says Dr Mörner.

One of his most shocking discoveries was why the IPCC has been able to show sea levels rising by 2.3mm a year. Until 2003, even its own satellite-based evidence showed no upward trend. But suddenly the graph tilted upwards because the IPCC's favoured experts had drawn on the finding of a single tide-gauge in Hong Kong harbour showing a 2.3mm rise. The entire global sea-level projection was then adjusted upwards by a "corrective factor" of 2.3mm, because, as the IPCC scientists admitted, they "needed to show a trend".

When I spoke to Dr Mörner last week, he expressed his continuing dismay at how the IPCC has fed the scare on this crucial issue. When asked to act as an "expert reviewer" on the IPCC's last two reports, he was "astonished to find that not one of their 22 contributing authors on sea levels was a sea level specialist: not one". Yet the results of all this "deliberate ignorance" and reliance on rigged computer models have become the most powerful single driver of the entire warmist hysteria.

•For more information, see Dr Mörner on YouTube (Google Mörner, Maldives and YouTube); or read on the net his 2007 EIR interview "Claim that sea level is rising is a total fraud"; or email him – morner@pog.nu – to buy a copy of his booklet 'The Greatest Lie Ever Told'

Blown away

The Climate Change Secretary, Ed Miliband, timed his jibe impeccably last week when he said that opposing wind farms is as “socially unacceptable” as “not wearing a seatbelt”. Britain’s largest windfarm companies are pulling out of wind as fast as they can. Despite 100 per cent subsidies, the credit crunch and technical problems spell an end to Gordon Brown’s £100 billion dream of meeting our EU target to derive 35 per cent of our electricity from “renewables” by 2020.

Meanwhile the Government gives the go-ahead for three new 1,000 megawatt gas-fired power stations in Wales. Each of them will generate more than the combined average output (700 megawatts) of all the 2,400 wind turbines so far built. The days of the “great wind fantasy” will soon be over.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/100018034/climategate-% 20%20e-mails-sweep-america-may-scuttle-barack-obamas-cap-and-trade-law s/

Quote:
Climategate e-mails sweep America, may scuttle Barack Obama's Cap and Trade laws

By Gerald Warner Politics Last updated: November 26th, 2009

Just a few considerations in addition to previous remarks about the explosion of the East Anglia Climategate e-mails in America. The reaction is growing exponentially there. Fox News, Barack Obama’s Nemesis, is now on the case, trampling all over Al Gore’s organic vegetable patch and breaking the White House windows. It has extracted some of the juiciest quotes from the e-mails and displayed them on-screen, with commentaries. Joe Public, coast-to-coast, now knows, thanks to the clowns at East Anglia’s CRU, just how royally he has been screwed.

Senator James Inhofe’s Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works has written to all the relevant US Government agencies, acquainting them with the nature of the e-mails. But the real car crash for Obama is on Capitol Hill where it is now confidently believed his Cap and Trade climate legislation is toast. It was always problematic; but with a growing awakening to the scale of the scientific imposture sweeping the world, as far as the Antipodes, the clever money is on Cap and Trade laws failing to pass, with many legislators sceptical and the mid-term elections looming ever closer.

At the more domestic level, the proposed ban on incandescent light bulbs, so supinely accepted in this servile state of Britain, is now provoking a huge backlash in America. US citizens do not like the government coming into their houses and putting their lights out. Voters may not understand the cut and thrust of climate debate at the technical level, but they know when the Man from Washington has crossed their threshold uninvited.

The term that Fox News is now applying to the Climategate e-mails is “game-changer”. For the first time, Anthropogenic Global Warming cranks are on the defensive, losing their cool and uttering desperate mantras such as “You can be sceptical, not denial.” Gee, thanks, guys. In fact we shall be whatever we want to be, without asking your permission.

At this rate, Copenhagen is going to turn into a comedy convention with the real world laughing at these liars. Now is the time to mount massive resistance to the petty tyrants and hit them where it hurts – in the wallet. Further down the line there may be, in many countries, a question of criminal prosecution of anybody who has falsified data to secure funds and impose potentially disastrous fiscal restraints on the world in deference to a massive hoax. It’s a new world out there, Al, and, as you may have noticed, the climate is very cold indeed.


"At this rate, Copenhagen is going to turn into a comedy convention with the real world laughing at these liars."
Is he allowed to call them liars? Won't it hurt somebody's feelings?
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