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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But clearly, the photograph was taken at PressTV after of before the programme in which both appeared. |
You know that do you?
Is that the only time they met?
My understanding is that it wasn't. I'm not smearing Nick. I'm explaining why his decisions (both on what he wrote and who he associated with) meant that personally I didn't want to associate with him |
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Andrew.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Another tragedy in all this is that it was long planned to repatriate many Jewish people to Palestine after the Second World War and in the full knowledge that it would become a war zone. Which it has with the indigenous people and then to be escalated even further which it has for twenty years, all with long term planning but many poor Jews are giving support to the so called ptb with the ptb piggy backing on this support. If they really cared for them would they put them in a war zone?
And since this is old news known to many, I wonder to what purpose people try to obfuscate it and who it/they really serve-s. |
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TonyGosling
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Andrew.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | The biggest tragedy of all this is that Nick has virtually turned himself into an untouchable.
If he had renounced his pronouncements such as that 'concentration camp victims died of 'famine'' there may have been a chance for him but unfortunately he decided like an idiot to dig in and try to defend the indefencible.
Then write the 'definitive' book on 7/7.
What a successful job he has done on sinking attempts to get to the bottom of 7/7.
Personally I think he is an idiot but one cannot help but wonder about his motives and whether he may have been 'groomed' for this purpose.
As far as I know Nick has no need to renounce his statements that concentration camps were like 'holiday camps' because he didn't say that. Private eye and others have implied that is what he said as far as I know. If anyone knows better please let me know. |
Wiki
| Quote: | | The persecution and genocide were carried out in stages. Legislation to remove the Jews from civil society was enacted years before the outbreak of World War II. Concentration camps were established in which inmates were used as slave labor until they died of exhaustion or disease. |
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Disco_Destroyer
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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I saw a recent piece somewhere saying a mass grave was exhumed and the majority died of Malnutrition, in particular Typhus* was documented.
Mind you I don't know how they can tell from bones alone  I'll add it was MSM piece at that
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhus
| Quote: | | Typhus epidemics killed inmates in the Nazi Germany concentration camps; infamous pictures of typhus victims' mass graves can be seen in footage shot at Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.[7] Thousands of prisoners who were held in unsuitable hygiene conditions in Nazi concentration camps such Theresienstadt and Bergen-Belsen also died of typhus during World War II[7], including Anne Frank at the age of 15 and her sister Margot. |
Here is the article, not found the original that I saw but this outlines the story, I'll look further in a minute I think I saw it either @ BBC or AP.
http://www.ejpress.org/article/3102
A mass grave dating from World War II and believed to contain the remains of Nazi-era forced workers has been uncovered at an airport in the southern German city of Stuttgart, investigators said on Wednesday.
Judging by the skeletal remains, the grave contains more than 30 bodies, which investigators believe are of Jewish slave labourers who starved to death.
They were probably part of a group sent to the Leinfelden-Echterdingen site from the Nazis’ Natzweiler-Struthof concentration camp in eastern France between November 1944 and February 1945.
Survivors of the workers forced to toil at the site said at least 100 Jews died there of starvation and typhus.
The bodies of 66 Jews who worked at Leinfelden-Echterdingen were found in a nearby forest in October 1945, shortly after the end of the war.
Investigators specialized in Nazi crimes have been called in to establish whether the victims died at the hands of Adolf Hitler’s regime.
"It could be weeks until all the pieces of skeleton are assembled and exhumed," said a spokesman for the Stuttgart prosecutor’s office.
A murder investigation has been opened.
The grave was found by construction workers digging in a section of the airport now used by the US army.
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Last edited by Disco_Destroyer on Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| kbo234 wrote: | | Dogsmilk wrote: |
They're probably not interested because it's just him copying Leuchter and Rudolf, rubbish that was demolished a decade ago. |
Of course it was demolished. Just like 9/11 conspiracy theories, Protocols of Zion and the rest were demolished. Who decides what gets published, Dogsmilk? People on this forum know (or should know) it is big-time deceivers with something to hide. |
So you're suggesting Nick recycled a load of old tosh and stuck it on the net because of a big conspiracy? If there wasn't this awesome, supernatural web of Jewish control he'd have been able to put something better on the internet?
| Dogsmilk wrote: |
My God - the ignorance is just utterly breathtaking. |
| Quote: |
Really? These facilities did exist and though the work camp no doubt degenerated into a very grim place indeed, particularly towards the end of the war it was an important producer of materials for the Nazi war machine. So Auschwitz was certainly not constructed as a 'death camp' and the evidence that it was specifically converted into a industrialised abattoir for human beings is highly suspect, to say the least.
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It depends on which ones. Like there was art but no "art classes" like it was a community college. The pool exists. And? What does a water reservoir being used as a pool and apparently accessed by privileged prisoners (who are apparently only filthy liars when it suits -when they talk about the pool it's ok, but mention gassings...) have to do with gassings? The vast majority of inmates in Auschwitz I will never even have gone near Birkenau. The orchestras are totally uncontroversial - like seen here on that noted denier site Jewish virtual library
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/auschwitz_orch.h tml
Eyewitnesses talk about them. You need to understand the context such things existed in - why wouldn't the Nazis make use of prisoners who could play instruments? Eddie Rosner formed a jazz band while in a Soviet gulag - does that fill your head full of wild ideas about gulag holiday camps? Does that mean the gulag wasn't a brutal place? The brothel had its own segment on the BBC TV series about Auschwitz - some 'hidden history' that.
All that stuff is typical denier hucksterism playing on people's relative ignorance of the pretty complex nature of the place. Sure the general portrayal is around the gassings aspect - why is that surprising? It's kinda more significant than whether some privileged prisoners a couple of kilometers away got to use some pool isn't it?
If the Auschwitz museum had been designed with the Jews in mind, it wouldn't have been so focused on Auschwitz I. The blunt fact is Jews were sidelined in the early days in favour of Polish suffering. The focus on Jews came later.
Auschwitz was massive with a huge multinational range of inmates. The camps were complex institutions and Auschwitz was the largest. Huge, complicated institutions have all kinds of weird aspects.
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The fact that it is impossible to investigate the issue publicly or raise the issue of Rudolf's research (say) without going to jail points to two things: |
In Britain and America? How come Mark Weber has made a small fortune out of the IHR?
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1) The people who stand behind this narrative are afraid of debating the issue because if they could prove their case they would bury so-called "deniers" with the truth. (Of course, if they could do that there would be no controversy at all.) |
Like Nick? Flatly refusing to debate with anyone knowledgeable and wanting me censored when I argued with him, and I barely know the subject. Like CODOH? Banning and censoring non deniers. This is a convenient myth to 'explain' why in decades denial has yet to produce anything that conforms to academic standards.
Are you surprised a narrative that expects people to believe the Auschwitz gas chambers were morgues or whatever and the AR camps were 'transit camps' but no-one saw them performing this function (it's just all the testimony is lies) millions of Jews got off trains and apparently teleported to Russia or wherever, learned the lingo, blended in and kept schtum for sixty years (and remain invisible to this day) and there was a hoax of epic proportions implicating at least thousands of people except no-one has the foggiest idea how it was actually orchestrated isn't taken seriously? (and that's just for starters).
This is the sort of landscape that was found at Treblinka. You might want to think about how you feel about what you're pissing on.
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2) There are very powerful forces whose interests (and perhaps income) are threatened by the unravelling of this story. |
Well I suppose some museums would have to close.
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People are afraid to challenge Israel and submit to the interests of Jews because of the power of the gas-chamber. |
No they're not. But you have a vastly inflated idea of the power of Jews because you fill your head with recycled and updated Nazi propaganda off the internet.
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If Israel or the US attack Iran, then such a cataclysmic insanity could only be explained with reference to the foundation upon which it has been constructed.......our collective acceptance of the gas-chamber meme, the greatest horror story in human history. |
Oh right. So whatever is happening in the Middle East now can only be explained in terms of the situation sixty years ago. By which logic you may as well blame any hypothetical war with Iran now on the carve up of the Ottoman Empire or whatever.
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But did this deepest horror really happen? That's a question well worth answering.
Jesus said, "The truth will set you free"...and humanity will never be free until the truth about 'Nazi death camps' is known......and no one should accept that it is known until all evidence is openly and publicly debated without fear of any consequences for thinking the wrong thoughts. |
What a load of bs. I don't see you claiming the evidence for the Holodomor should be "openly and publicly debated" because of the claims of apologists for Stalin. Why not? Why's it always this one thing. Because you just repeat (online) media prompts.
The answer is obvious. If you look at the evolution of far right conspiracy narratives. All these claims on these websites you fill your head with didn't just emerge from a vacuum you know, they're the product of an ideological narrative.
Look I won't be hanging around, but I'd just suggest you consider that the stuff you read online didn't just happen as some impartial quest for 'the truth' or whatever you think. Since you think you're so good at looking behind 'official' stuff, why don't you take the trouble to look behind other stuff too.
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Last edited by Dogsmilk on Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:32 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Disco_Destroyer
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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The questions are not unfounded when you understand Nazis were hung for this crime:
| Quote: | NEWS
Gorbachev Documents Soviet Guilt at Katyn
April 14, 1990 | MASHA HAMILTON, TIMES STAFF WRITER
President Mikhail S. Gorbachev, seeking to defuse the single biggest issue poisoning relations between the Soviet Union and neighboring Poland, gave Polish President Wojciech Jaruzelski documents Friday that showed that Soviet secret police killed thousands of Polish army officers during World War II and buried them in mass graves in a Russian forest. |
http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/massacres-poland
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Disco_Destroyer wrote: | The questions are not unfounded when you understand Nazis were hung for this crime:
| Quote: | NEWS
Gorbachev Documents Soviet Guilt at Katyn
April 14, 1990 | MASHA HAMILTON, TIMES STAFF WRITER
President Mikhail S. Gorbachev, seeking to defuse the single biggest issue poisoning relations between the Soviet Union and neighboring Poland, gave Polish President Wojciech Jaruzelski documents Friday that showed that Soviet secret police killed thousands of Polish army officers during World War II and buried them in mass graves in a Russian forest. |
http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/massacres-poland |
Hung you say? Which ones?
It's interesting that Arno Diere confessed (in Soviet hands) to helping bury the bodies, but later retracted it as a forced confession. As people forced to confess often do. Except, according to deniers, Nazis. Who were all apparently tortured and stuff but had a strange tendency not to recant.
Even in West German prisons - not noted for their brutality.
Anyway, Katyn denial exists. So why aren't you questioning that 'official story'?
I had a go myself -
Known shill for the holohoax Laurence Rees says in world war two behind closed doors that in Kalinin prison two rooms were lined with velvet to mask the sound of gunfire and Poles were led in one by one to be shot in the back of the head.
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The first transport of Poles from the nearby Ostashkov camp arrived at Kalinin prison in April. 'I should tell you that the first night they brought three hundred people', revealed Tokarev. 'This was too much. The night was short and we had to work only at night. Then they started to bring two hundred and fifty people a night'. |
Why bring them in one by one taking ages? It's a rubbish way to massacre people. Why not just take them to a deserted spot and mow them down like they did elsewhere? I find myself a bit incredulous and I certainly wouldn't perform a mass killing in this fashion so therefore it did not happen.
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Blokhin wore a special outfit - a brown leather apron, leather gauntlets and a leather cap |
Was this a gay nightclub or the NKVD? - clear 'scary evil guy' imagery concoction.
Worse, regarding other Poles allegedly killed in a forest in a more sensible fashion
| Quote: |
.there were encouraging signs that they were about to be better treated - each of them had been given food to eat on the train and had been inoculated against illness. And who would bother to give injections to people who were about to be murdered? |
Who indeed? We see here Rees jumps to assuming they were murdered while trying to skirt over these incongrous injections. Medicine is expensive and you don't waste it on people you are about to kill - I have decided it doesn't make sense. Therefore these killings were an obvious hoax.
Incidentally, when I posted this stuff on RODOH, I was advised the 'why did they shoot them in the head' argument is a genuine Katyn denier argument even though I'd invented it trying to take the piss out of Holocaust deniers' stupid arguments.
Denial is easy - it's history for retards.
Needless to say, what the Soviets trying to cover up their own dirty deed has to do with the Holocaust isn't explained.
Katyn = 'official history' - but that's ok
Holocaust = 'official history' - filthy Jewish lie. It said so on teh interwebs.
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TonyGosling
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | Point being though that it is impossible to die of famine inside a concentration camp. You have to be free to roam about and try to get food to die of famine.
If you die inside a concentration camp because you have not been fed you have been starved to death.
This sort of terminology is inaccurate and abhorrent.
It is what makes Nick a Nazi apologist.
| Disco_Destroyer wrote: | | I saw a recent piece somewhere saying a mass grave was exhumed and the majority died of Malnutrition, in particular Typhus* was documented. |
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But if they died of starvation or disease that's just fine, surely?
And what mass grave in what camp (or wherever) is just totally irrelevant, obviously.
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Andrew.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | Point being though that it is impossible to die of famine inside a concentration camp. You have to be free to roam about and try to get food to die of famine.
If you die inside a concentration camp because you have not been fed you have been starved to death.
This sort of terminology is inaccurate and abhorrent.
It is what makes Nick a Nazi apologist.
| Disco_Destroyer wrote: | | I saw a recent piece somewhere saying a mass grave was exhumed and the majority died of Malnutrition, in particular Typhus* was documented. |
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Wiki
Quote:
The persecution and genocide were carried out in stages. Legislation to remove the Jews from civil society was enacted years before the outbreak of World War II. Concentration camps were established in which inmates were used as slave labor until they died of exhaustion or disease.
| Quote: |
http://www.ucc.ie/famine/About/abfamine.htm
What is Famine
Extract from "The Challenge of Famine", John Osgood Field; Kumarian Press Conneticut, 1993
The Nature of the Beast
Famine may be seen as "the regional failure of food production or distribution systems, leading to sharply increased mortality due to starvation and associated disease" (Cox 1981, 5). While other definitions exist as well, this one usefully emphasizes regional, not family failure; points to the importance of markets and, by implication, of shifting market demand for different foods in addition to their aggregate supply; identifies "excess deaths" - deaths that otherwise would not have occurred- as the core feature of famine; and attributes those deaths to morbidity as well as to seriously reduced consumption. Indeed, most famine-induced mortality tends to occur after the worst of the food crisis is over but while the crisis of infectious disease persists (Bongaarts and Cain 1982; Greenough 1976 and 1982; see also the studies cited by Dreze and Sen 1989, 44). |
Last edited by Andrew. on Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Disco_Destroyer
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | Point being though that it is impossible to die of famine inside a concentration camp. You have to be free to roam about and try to get food to die of famine.
If you die inside a concentration camp because you have not been fed you have been starved to death.
This sort of terminology is inaccurate and abhorrent.
It is what makes Nick a Nazi apologist.
| Disco_Destroyer wrote: | | I saw a recent piece somewhere saying a mass grave was exhumed and the majority died of Malnutrition, in particular Typhus* was documented. |
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There is even a witness quoting on the great Band Of Brothers Opus in regard to a camp liberation:
'All the guards had between them was a moldy old potato'
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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I can see this thread is on the express to factoid land.
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Disco_Destroyer
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Haha it the old jump down peoples throat and plant words game wahoo!
Nobody is saying the Holocaust is a good thing, just it needs to be weighed up in kind. I dont see anyone here getting hysterical about known US Atrocities past or present? Maybe all Republicrats should be hung??
anyway nothing is clear cut take these 2 takes of the same story for instance:
| Quote: | Germany: Nazi-era mass grave unearthed
http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/ 1,2506,L-3311714,00.html
Some 51 bodies, mostly children, found in churchyard in northeast Germany. Officials believe grave contains non-Jewish victims of Nazi euthanasia program, murdered by Hitler’s personal physician
Ynet
German authorities said on Thursday that they had unearthed the remains of 51 people, most of them children, in what may be a mass grave for murdered victims of Hitler's euthanasia program.
So far the skeletons of 22 children and 29 adults have been exhumed from the grave, located in a Catholic church cemetery of the village of Menden-Barge, local officials told reporters. The exhumation process is still under way.
The estimation in Germany was that the bodies were not of Jewish Holocaust victims, but were German victims of the Nazi's systematic euthanasia program. The site of the mass grave was nearby the hospital where Hitler’s personal physician, Karl Brandt, worked. Brandt headed the Nazi euthanasia program from 1939 and was involved in human experimentation.
The victims were apparently killed by lethal injection with poison chemicals emitted from cars. Brandt was at the head of the list of Nazi doctors tried in the Nuremburg trials.
State prosecutor Ulrich Maass said there were signs those buried in the grave met a violent end, especially the children.
"We assume that these were victims of the Nazi regime," Maass said. Supporting this view is the fact that the children's tiny skeletons had been haphazardly tossed into the grave without coffins, he said.
Three of the children showed signs of having physical handicaps, Maass said.
Some of the adults were buried in coffins and the cause of their deaths was not immediately clear.
During World War II, in addition to the six million Jews murdered, the Nazis also slaughtered many non-Jewish residents of Germany, including opponents of the regime and others defined by the Germans as suffering from mental and physical handicaps.
The prosecutor's office will now look for witnesses and documents from the period. Maass said he already had the testimony from a former church assistant who said he saw corpses brought on horse-drawn carts and dumped into the grave.
However, it would be very difficult to indict anyone 61 years after World War II ended, he said. Also, it would be hard to detect traces of poisons that might have been used to kill them.
Reuters contributed to the report
Germans uncover 'Nazi mass grave'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5410834.stm
Skeletons of 22 children and 29 adults have been found in a suspected Nazi-era mass grave excavated in Germany.
The remains were exhumed from the cemetery of a Catholic church in the village of Menden-Barge.
Officials said the dead may have been victims of Adolf Hitler's "euthanasia" programme, under which many disabled people were murdered.
Hitler's Nazi regime killed more than six million Jews and other minorities across Europe during World War II.
"We assume that these were victims of the Nazi regime," state prosecutor Ulrich Maass said.
Difficult search
Mr Maass said authorities would search for evidence about the suspected killings and witnesses to any atrocities.
At least one witness, a former church assistant, said he saw corpses brought to the grave by horse-drawn cart.
But he admitted that it could be difficult to find enough strong evidence to bring charges against any individual, 61 years after the end of the war.
Poisons often used to kill victims would be hard to detect after so many years.
The prosecutor said a culture of secrecy surrounded the grave until recent years.
The cemetery is near the site of a hospital once run by Hitler's personal doctor Karl Brandt, who headed the "euthanasia" programme, called Action T4. Victims were killed by lethal injection or by carbon monoxide fumes piped into sheds from car exhausts. |
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Andrew.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | | TonyGosling wrote: | Point being though that it is impossible to die of famine inside a concentration camp. You have to be free to roam about and try to get food to die of famine.
If you die inside a concentration camp because you have not been fed you have been starved to death.
This sort of terminology is inaccurate and abhorrent.
It is what makes Nick a Nazi apologist.
| Disco_Destroyer wrote: | | I saw a recent piece somewhere saying a mass grave was exhumed and the majority died of Malnutrition, in particular Typhus* was documented. |
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But if they died of starvation or disease that's just fine, surely?
And what mass grave in what camp (or wherever) is just totally irrelevant, obviously. |
It seems some people say things that they should regret, but should have a chance to correct themselves? |
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Disco_Destroyer
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thats not forget the old Concerntration Camps were invented by Great Britain chestnut
Why else you think they're not known under a German name. Just an update of our other great institution the Work House. Maybe that the reason they decided to drop the Great?
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kbo234
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: |
This is the sort of landscape that was found at Treblinka. You might want to think about how you feel about what you're pissing on. |
Millions died during the Irish famine. That doesn't give me the right to say any wild thing I like about it. Historical truth is historical truth.
No one is denying the horror, the persecution or the killing during WW2. They are denying the existence of an industrialised process set up for the systematic extermination of an entire race.
People have the right to challenge unfounded or unproven allegations regarding such an obscenity. Indeed, given the consequences of 'holocaust' propaganda, it our solemn duty to raise and insist on raising these questions.
We've been here before, Dogsmilk. How do you respond to Gilad Atzmon's following statement? Are there really no questions to answer?
It took me years to accept that the Holocaust narrative, in its current form, doesn’t make any historical sense. Here is just one little anecdote to elaborate on:
If, for instance, the Nazis wanted the Jews out of their Reich (Judenrein - free of Jews), or even dead, as the Zionist narrative insists, how come they marched hundreds of thousands of them back into the Reich at the end of the war? I have been concerned with this simple question for more than a while. I eventually launched into an historical research of the topic and happened to learn from Israeli holocaust historian professor Israel Gutman that Jewish prisoners actually joined the march voluntarily. Here is a testimony taken from Gutman’s book
"One of my friends and relatives in the camp came to me on the night of the evacuation and offered a common hiding place somewhere on the way from the camp to the factory. …The intention was to leave the camp with one of the convoys and to escape near the gate, using the darkness we thought to go a little far from the camp. The temptation was very strong. And yet, after I considered it all I then decided to join (the march) with all the other inmates and to share their fate " (Israel Gutman [editor], People and Ashes: Book Auschwitz - Birkenau, Merhavia 1957).
I am left puzzled here, if the Nazis ran a death factory in Auschwitz-Birkenau, why would the Jewish prisoners join them at the end of the war? Why didn’t the Jews wait for their Red liberators?
| Quote: |
People are afraid to challenge Israel and submit to the interests of Jews because of the power of the gas-chamber. |
| Dogsmilk wrote: |
No they're not. But you have a vastly inflated idea of the power of Jews.... |
Quite possibly. Maybe Jews are being used. It would not be the first time.
| Dogsmilk wrote: |
What a load of bs. I don't see you claiming the evidence for the Holodomor should be "openly and publicly debated" because of the claims of apologists for Stalin. Why not? Why's it always this one thing. Because you just repeat (online) media prompts. |
The Holdomor is NOT a feature of history that has had an ongoing disastrous effect on our recent past and all very possibly our futures. Israel is a mad dog that threatens the very survival of humanity on earth. Netanyahu has been pushing for an attack on Iran for a long time. Such an action will kick off World War Three.
The way I see it, I'm fighting for my children here.
The web has done much to sink the 'global warming' scam. Please God it will help the cause of preventing another massive war. If military and politicians understand that they are drowning in a sea of lies, on multiple issues, they will hopefully recognise that their real enemies are much closer to home than they have been told and they will think of their own families and become determined to frustrate the satanic liars that have been directing our destinies for many decades or, perhaps, centuries. |
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Disco_Destroyer
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6342
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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LMAO
| Quote: | | Some 51 bodies, mostly children |
| Quote: | | 22 children and 29 adults |
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gruts
Major Poster
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 1050
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | Needless to say, what the Soviets trying to cover up their own dirty deed has to do with the Holocaust isn't explained.
Katyn = 'official history' - but that's ok
Holocaust = 'official history' - filthy Jewish lie. It said so on teh interwebs. |
I'm not really up to speed with the latest developments in the wacky world of holocaust denial, but it is true that holocaust deniers sometimes use the soviet katyn massacre cover-up to advance their argument that the holocaust didn't happen.
this is because, after manufacturing their "evidence" that the Germans were responsible for the Katyn massacre, the Soviets insisted (much to the embarrassment of the USA and UK) of formally charging the Nazis with the crime at the Nuremburg trials.
the soviet "evidence" was dismissed by the court during a preliminary hearing and a verdict on who was responsible for the killings was not included in the court's final judgement. but the fact that a document which can be shown to consist of falsifications was used by the Soviet Union at Nuremburg has provided holocaust deniers with ammunition to attack the credibility of the Nuremburg findings as a whole - because much of the Nuremburg evidence about the holocaust was also provided by the Soviets....
this is of course a false argument - as it conveniently forgets that the Nuremburg court did not consider that the Soviet claims about Katyn were credible - in contrast to the evidence about the holocaust.
that's one reason why "katyn denial" by stalin's surviving groupies is just as pernicious as holocaust denial. of course, denying any act of mass murder is despicable....
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Nyetu pravdy v Isvyestyakh i nyetu isvyestyi v Pravde |
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Andrew.
Validated Poster
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 1518
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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'Nick Kollerstrom banned' why?
Most of us know or should know that political zionism is going to be an eventual fall guy. As per another subject we can't discuss.(edit) If we allow them to. |
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| kbo234 wrote: | | Dogsmilk wrote: |
This is the sort of landscape that was found at Treblinka. You might want to think about how you feel about what you're pissing on. |
Millions died during the Irish famine. That doesn't give me the right to say any wild thing I like about it. Historical truth is historical truth.
No one is denying the horror, the persecution or the killing during WW2. They are denying the existence of an industrialised process set up for the systematic extermination of an entire race.
People have the right to challenge unfounded or unproven allegations regarding such an obscenity. Indeed, given the consequences of 'holocaust' propaganda, it our solemn duty to raise and insist on raising these questions.
We've been here before, Dogsmilk. How do you respond to Gilad Atzmon's following statement? Are there really no questions to answer?
It took me years to accept that the Holocaust narrative, in its current form, doesn’t make any historical sense. Here is just one little anecdote to elaborate on:
If, for instance, the Nazis wanted the Jews out of their Reich (Judenrein - free of Jews), or even dead, as the Zionist narrative insists, how come they marched hundreds of thousands of them back into the Reich at the end of the war? I have been concerned with this simple question for more than a while. I eventually launched into an historical research of the topic and happened to learn from Israeli holocaust historian professor Israel Gutman that Jewish prisoners actually joined the march voluntarily. Here is a testimony taken from Gutman’s book
"One of my friends and relatives in the camp came to me on the night of the evacuation and offered a common hiding place somewhere on the way from the camp to the factory. …The intention was to leave the camp with one of the convoys and to escape near the gate, using the darkness we thought to go a little far from the camp. The temptation was very strong. And yet, after I considered it all I then decided to join (the march) with all the other inmates and to share their fate " (Israel Gutman [editor], People and Ashes: Book Auschwitz - Birkenau, Merhavia 1957).
I am left puzzled here, if the Nazis ran a death factory in Auschwitz-Birkenau, why would the Jewish prisoners join them at the end of the war? Why didn’t the Jews wait for their Red liberators?
| Quote: |
People are afraid to challenge Israel and submit to the interests of Jews because of the power of the gas-chamber. |
| Dogsmilk wrote: |
No they're not. But you have a vastly inflated idea of the power of Jews.... |
Quite possibly. Maybe Jews are being used. It would not be the first time.
| Dogsmilk wrote: |
What a load of bs. I don't see you claiming the evidence for the Holodomor should be "openly and publicly debated" because of the claims of apologists for Stalin. Why not? Why's it always this one thing. Because you just repeat (online) media prompts. |
The Holdomor is NOT a feature of history that has had an ongoing disastrous effect on our recent past and all very possibly our futures. Israel is a mad dog that threatens the very survival of humanity on earth. Netanyahu has been pushing for an attack on Iran for a long time. Such an action will kick off World War Three.
The way I see it, I'm fighting for my children here.
The web has done much to sink the 'global warming' scam. Please God it will help the cause of preventing another massive war. If military and politicians understand that they are drowning in a sea of lies, on multiple issues, they will hopefully recognise that their real enemies are much closer to home than they have been told and they will think of their own families and become determined to frustrate the satanic liars that have been directing our destinies for many decades or, perhaps, centuries. |
Amid your usual hand-waving rhetoric, the Atzmon stuff you highlight is so utterly retarded I'm amazed I have to point its idiocy out to you.
Let's take it on its own terms; he claims Jews chose to go back to the Reich. His evidence for this a snippet quote from one man, a quote that in no way explains his motivation. And tells us others were planning to escape.
So Atzmon citing a snipped quote of one man choosing, for unknown reasons, to go with a death march (as they were fondly called) by declining the escape attempt other people were planning (for all we know he could have been frightened of being caught and shot) is to you some kind of compelling evidence Jews decided to go into Germany.
It's pretty clear you're just looking for stuff to believe isn't it?
And this is apparently the sum total of of his "historical research".
| Quote: | | If, for instance, the Nazis wanted the Jews out of their Reich (Judenrein - free of Jews), or even dead, as the Zionist narrative insists, how come they marched hundreds of thousands of them back into the Reich at the end of the war? |
The Nazis had already stopped gassings before this. People left alive would generally be people set aside for labour. And the people on these marches weren't all Jews neither. There was nowhere left to go but the Reich. Apparently Himmler ordered evacuations to stop prisoners 'falling into the hands of the enemy'. Which is bizarre and irrational if you ask me, but then so much of the collapsing Reich was. They were still fighting even though they'd clearly lost. It's the rationality of the irrational they'd want to keep hold of their manpower.
"Zionist narrative" - what an utterly stupid thing to say. And you rate this moron?
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It's a man's life in MOSSAD |
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| gruts wrote: | | Dogsmilk wrote: | Needless to say, what the Soviets trying to cover up their own dirty deed has to do with the Holocaust isn't explained.
Katyn = 'official history' - but that's ok
Holocaust = 'official history' - filthy Jewish lie. It said so on teh interwebs. |
I'm not really up to speed with the latest developments in the wacky world of holocaust denial, but it is true that holocaust deniers sometimes use the soviet katyn massacre cover-up to advance their argument that the holocaust didn't happen.
this is because, after manufacturing their "evidence" that the Germans were responsible for the Katyn massacre, the Soviets insisted (much to the embarrassment of the USA and UK) of formally charging the Nazis with the crime at the Nuremburg trials.
the soviet "evidence" was dismissed by the court during a preliminary hearing and a verdict on who was responsible for the killings was not included in the court's final judgement. but the fact that a document which can be shown to consist of falsifications was used by the Soviet Union at Nuremburg has provided holocaust deniers with ammunition to attack the credibility of the Nuremburg findings as a whole - because much of the Nuremburg evidence about the holocaust was also provided by the Soviets....
this is of course a false argument - as it conveniently forgets that the Nuremburg court did not consider that the Soviet claims about Katyn were credible - in contrast to the evidence about the holocaust.
that's one reason why "katyn denial" by stalin's surviving groupies is just as pernicious as holocaust denial. of course, denying any act of mass murder is despicable.... |
But you're forgetting that Katyn is 'official history' and people deny it. So it is therefore a hoax.
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kbo234
Validated Poster
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 2017
Location: Croydon, Surrey
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | It's pretty clear you're just looking for stuff to believe isn't it?
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Good God!
Unlike yourself I am not a monomaniac.
You are a sayanim, Dogsmilk. You rush to the defense of Israeli/Jewish interests regardless of the content of criticism or anomilies raised.
You defend everything.
You admit nothing.
You have no other interest.
No other lives are of significance.
9/11 itself does not interest you.
Best not to go there. Mossad hands being all over this crime and anyway, only one Israeli citizen died (as compared to 67 Brits) on 9/11. That will teach the fool to disconnect himself from the hive mind.
"Looking for something to believe in?"
Are you suggesting we should all be guided by your impartial observations? |
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| kbo234 wrote: | | Dogsmilk wrote: | It's pretty clear you're just looking for stuff to believe isn't it?
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Good God!
Unlike yourself I am not a monomaniac.
You are a sayanim, Dogsmilk. You rush to the defense of Israeli/Jewish interests regardless of the content of criticism or anomilies raised.
You defend everything.
You admit nothing.
You have no other interest.
No other lives are of significance.
9/11 itself does not interest you.
Best not to go there. Mossad hands being all over this crime and anyway, only one Israeli citizen died (as compared to 67 Brits) on 9/11. That will teach the fool to disconnect himself from the hive mind.
"Looking for something to believe in?"
Are you suggesting we should all be guided by your impartial observations? |
I can see you realise how daft that Atzmon stuff is. You just keep on keep on with your tabloid style internet 'research'.
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It's a man's life in MOSSAD |
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gruts
Major Poster
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 1050
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | | But you're forgetting that Katyn is 'official history' and people deny it. So it is therefore a hoax. |
apologies for interrupting a holocaust denial debate with a rational comment! how foolish of me! of course it must be a hoax! 
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letthemeatmadeiracake
Minor Poster
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 71
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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why has kbo234 been suspended 
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"For truth has now come to light, and falsehood [by its nature] is bound to perish; for, falsehood cannot bring forth anything new, nor can it bring back [what has passed away]." |
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ian neal
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3140
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Nothing to do with me. However he started a thread called 'last chance saloon' (now deleted) in which he criticised Tony and asked him to deactivate his account. I guess Tony agreed to his request |
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TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
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letthemeatmadeiracake
Minor Poster
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 71
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| TonyGosling wrote: | | Yes Ian's correct. The easiest thing to do is simply click on the users profile then 'view latest posts' and you will usually be able to see a sad and sorry tale of a user who has broken one of the Cardinal rules in the 'about this website' section and then also refuses to take my advice. |
I remember clicking on kbo's profile to see what it was he had written most recently (I didn't have time to read all his posts) and as far as I can remember I could not see anything that was controversial (I didn't see the thread mentioned by Ian Neal above).
I wasn't complaining Tony. It was a genuine question. Although I've been looking into 9/11 since 2003 (with a sabbatical for 2 years  ), I've only been involved with the 'Truth Movement' since late 2007. Like many others questioning what happened on 9/11, I have found the experience akin to falling down a rabbit-hole, trying to make sense of conflicting theories. I am open to changing my opinions if provided with convincing evidence and logical argument, and have found this forum useful along with many others. I have previously questioned the suspension of Mark Gobell but not Mason Free Party. I don't personally know these people, but found I was learning something from some of their posts. So I sort of do resent censorship of information or of the messengers that I'm learning something from. There are enough barriers to finding out the truth as it is, without confronting the same within the Truth Movement.
| Tony Gosling wrote: | | If users start complaining on the forum about these decisions I am also within my rights to ban them too. |
To recap, I wasn't complaining, I was asking for clarification because I didn't know. I'll check kbo's profile again to try to work out which of the Cardinal rules they are supposed to have broken, but if I can't work it out, I hope I can ask. I trust that I won't be suspended for asking questions.
Peace,
M
---
"Activism should not be bound by mere personal affiliation, and nor should it unreservedly embrace or accept ideological dogmas. An activist is an ambassador to his cause; yes, he or she must be morally focused, but there should also be a willingness to serve as a unifying force, and to strategize and organize accordingly.
The day our publications, newsletters, websites, conferences and rallies include all sorts of opposing views, without slander and intimidation, will be the day that we can be sure a cohesive community of activists is in the making, a community able to achieve good things..." Ramzy Baroud
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"For truth has now come to light, and falsehood [by its nature] is bound to perish; for, falsehood cannot bring forth anything new, nor can it bring back [what has passed away]." |
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TonyGosling
Editor
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