Israel's ulterior motives to wage war in Lebanon...

[Mission911]

I am of the opinion that this war of crimes, inflicted by Israel was Nothing to do with rescuing it's two soldiers , it was a lame excuse to fight hezbollah, since it is supported by Iran which is playing with nuclear power these days.

Had it been any other countries dealing with kidnapped Soldiers/ Prisoners they would've used rationale tactics with viable agreements on both parties..as Hezbollah's agenda was also to demand the release of the Lebanese prisoners captured by Israel some two decades ago.

Israel fears that one day hezbollah will possess those nuclear weapons and will use them against Israel and this is the basis for them to wage a war on innocent Lebanese, so when the opportunity came they grabbed it.

Israel’s plan wasn't about rescuing the soldiers, Israel knows fully well that Hezbollah’s foremost supporters are Iran and Syria. So it seeks pressuring Syria to exert pressure on Hezbollah to end the fighting and turn in the Israeli soldiers it captured earlier.

So to break Hezbollah, the way Israel sees it, is to first pressure Syria. And since Syria’s influence in Lebanon had already been reduced, Iran remains Hezbollah’s only hope.

With the world powers now united against Iran’s nuclear program, Israel hopes it can get rid of another Hezbollah supporter by lobbying efforts to impose UN sanctions on the Islamic Republic.

Having Hezbollah without supporters will give more strength to the Lebanese government, (much of it is anti-Syrian) who might think of sending its relatively weak army to the south to battle Israeli forces.

As for Israel it is mission accompliced, fighting the Lebanese army makes the goal of winning the battle and eventually recapturing Beirut much attainable, than battling Hezbollah.

[b]It seems we are in a weird age where logic is twisted! Israel and the US wages wars, one after one, yet they are considered peace makers!!!!!!![/b]

[paul wright]

A very logical assessment though I feel a little superficial
The more crude though deeper view is that Israel is doing the dirty work providing an excuse for the US and UK to attack Syria and Iran
These are ordo ab chao mayhem-mongerers at work seeking maximum possible disruption in the shortest possible time so as to impose their solution. The vibratory uprate provides the clue to why they are in a hurry and will stop at nothing

[Banish]

My assesment is: Israel has just ANNEXED South Lebanon. Israel is currently engaged in the ETHNIC CLEANSING of the region.

This is Israel's "pound of flesh" literally, as payment, for their help in pulling off 9/11. Notice the US and Britian stand idly-by while they cash in the chips.

Notice also that they are heading for the LItani river. This is about WATER.

[insidejob]

There's only one Hezbollah with one leader which takes orders from two countries. Or has Iran and Syria united into one country without anyone noticing. Or is the intelligence services of Syria and Iran united. That is, how is one Hezbollah the tool of both Iran and Syria at the same time? If one country dominates, which one?

Two into one does not go. This does not add up.

Anyhow, the ulterior motive seems to be World War III. They've been planning this for ages. www.takingaim.info

insidejob

[Mark Gobell]

Good point Banish

Israel's strive for water security is an historic and well documented fact as it's own supply is precarious.

The Litani River is therefore strategically important,

Time will tell if and when this current conflict ends, whether the proposed buffer zone, if implemented, will stretch to the north of Tyre where the Litani empties into the Med, or even Nabatiya where it flows nearest to Israel's north east border.

[wepmob2000]

If Israel does have an ulterior motive then thank god they are willing to act upon it, the thought of nuclear weaponry in the hands of Islamic terrorists, or the backers of terror, well, it doesn't bear thinking about.

This is a war by proxy at the moment, hopefully we are moving towards the time when The USA and the Uk will act decisively to end Iranian nuclear ambitions once and for all.

[Dog]

[Abandoned Ego]

.

[Banish]

[wepmob2000]

Hmmm, its funny how when terrorists carry out their atrocities we hear nothing from you apologists, not a peep, no mass demonstrations, no cries of injustice.
As soon as the 'pirate' nations, such as Israel, the USA, and the UK begin to act in their own self defence, and yes to a degree in their own self interest, it suddenly wrong.
It never occurs to you people the reason you are able to protest against your own nations actions is because you live in free democracies. You are happy enough to enjoy these rights, whilst biting the hands that feed you. I would like to see you spout similar criticism of the Iranian regime in Tehran, you would be publically horse-whipped!
Lets see a mass demonstration against terrorist atrocities, most recently in India and in the deliberate escalation of conflict by Hezbollah.
The reason certain countries should have WMD and not others is simple, some nations are responsible and see them as a deterrent, and therefore defensive weaponry. Other irresponsible, murderous regimes, like Iran and Syria for example, see them as weapons to be used to achieve their sinister aims.
No 'pirate' nation denies the very right of another nation to exist. Iran does however, as does Syria. This is indefensible to any peace loving right minded person.

Wepmob.

P.S. To resort to name-calling just undermines further already your baseless and ridiculous arguments.
P.P.S. Have volunteered in the past, and as a member of the reserves am likely to be called to duty again in any future conflict. Would be proud to participate in any campaign against the tyrannical Islamic regimes in the Middle East.

[Sinclair]

From the latest post at the excellent Rigorous Intuition blog. (note the updated URL).



And even for the Middle East, which has seen so many wars, this war is an odd one. Israel's actions appear counter-intuitive, even by its hard-right's own measure of "national security." Its self-immolation of any credible claim to a just cause virtually assures tragedy for itself and its people. Its goading Syria and Iran into a general war by turning Lebanon into a slaughterhouse means the Israeli state has become, itself, a suicide bomber; an engine of apocalypse. But for whom, and for what?

"[Israeli] Defense officials told the [Jerusalem] Post last week that they were receiving indications from the US that America would be interested in seeing Israel attack Syria." And Haaretz quotes Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah as saying on Saturday that the "Israelis are ready to halt the aggression because they are afraid of the unknown. The one pushing for the continuation of the aggression is the US administration." And then there are a pair of Mephistopholean characters named Cheney and Netanyahu.

It's often presumed that Israel leads American policy in the Middle East, and that's frequently been true, which is why this war is strikingly and disturbingly different. The United States is actually egging on Israel to press the attack regardless of the cost Israelis may be expected to bear for the fresh blood its armed forces shed. George Bush spoke arguably his most frightening and truthful words last Friday, when he admitted that it's not the White House intention to create "a sense of stability." It's by instability - by creating "failed states" in the Balkans, Central Asia, the Middle East and elsewhere - that End-Time criminals stand to gain the most. That may be little surprise to those of us who know the playbook, but our humanity still can't help but be shocked by their unbridled delight in the "opportunities" now presented by the "new Middle East."

In the mid-90s, there was talk of a different, new Middle East.

On the evening of November 4, 1995, in Tel Aviv's Kings of Israel Square, Yitzhak Rabin spoke these words:

There are enemies of peace who are trying to hurt us, in order to torpedo the peace process. I want to say bluntly, that we have found a partner for peace among the Palestinians as well: the PLO, which was an enemy, and has ceased to engage in terrorism. Without partners for peace, there can be no peace. We will demand that they do their part for peace, just as we will do our part for peace, in order to solve the most complicated, prolonged, and emotionally charged aspect of the Israeli-Arab conflict: the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

This is a course which is fraught with difficulties and pain. For Israel, there is no path that is without pain. But the path of peace is preferable to the path of war. I say this to you as one who was a military man, someone who is today Minister of Defense and sees the pain of the families of the IDF soldiers. For them, for our children, in my case for our grandchildren, I want this Government to exhaust every opening, every possibility, to promote and achieve a comprehensive peace. Even with Syria, it will be possible to make peace.

This rally must send a message to the Israeli people, to the Jewish people around the world, to the many people in the Arab world, and indeed to the entire world, that the Israeli people want peace, support peace. For this, I thank you.

And then he was shot.

...

Read the full article here.

[Leiff]

wepmob2000

The USA's desire to attack Iran has more to do with them wanting to trade their oil in Euros instead of Dollars. The scare mongering about Iran's nuclear capability is just an excuse to attack them IMHO, after all they are not breaking any agreements by wanting nuclear power.

How many UN resolutions is Israel currently in breach of?

[Sinclair]

Leiff said

[wepmob2000]

Nuclear power, yes, fine. Who can honestly stand up and say Iran doesn't then want to develop this power source for the construction of Nuclear weaponry.
It is the avowed aim, no less, of many senior and influential Iranian leaders.
And what do they want these weapons for we wonder? To defend themselves from further Iraqi attack perhaps? Hmmm I don't think so.
If the USA wants oil so badly why not invade Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Venezuala as well, much easier prospects, much cheaper, probably more popular with the electorate. Oh yes I forgot Afghanistan, the major oil producing member of OPEC, sorry.
What is so wrong in defending vital national interests anyway? Would you prefer to walk to your mass demonstrations?
The real shame is that so much of this is unnecessary. Yes Israel. like all countries has its extremists, however they do not have Katyusha rockets, nor any real sway.
The threat of Islamic extremism is a different matter, and is a threat to the peace and security of all freedom loving people. They even decry Buddhists for pity's sake. Their sense of arrogance and superiority is breathtaking, as is their ability to utilise propaganda. Don't think for one second Israel is deliberately targeting civilians, the impact on their standing and reputation is too great. Hezbollah, like the Iraqis in 1991, deliberately places civilians near potential targets in the hope they will be killed. This makes for great TV and great propaganda. International news-teams are allowed immediate access to these events. I wonder if they would like to grant similar access to their undoubtedly squalid cells where the poor Israeli soldiers are kept?

[wepmob2000]

Sinclair....

I agree completely, the killing of Rabin was a vile act of extremism, which was roundly and correctly condemned by all free minded people, including the government and inhabitants of the USA, Israel, and the UK.

The point you people seem to miss is that in the next breath you then support the exponents of extremism, and decry its opponents. Its extremism that caused this mess, particularly the mantra that if you are non-muslim, you are a non-believer, and therefore in some way the enemy, only fit for killing.

The fact you can sit in Liverpool and spout this clap-trap means the UK does not follow a similarly dogmatic line.

Same goes for the USA and Israel.....

Hmmm, some countries deny others a right even to exist but somehow they're not the bad guys, and allowing them to have Nuclear weaponry would be OK. However once again the USA is the bad guy for exporting components to India, that well known aggressor state.

Some very fallacious thinking there my friend.

P>S> No more name-calling its childish and rather sad.

[Abandoned Ego]

[Sinclair]

webhead,

'Islamic extremism' has been created/caused by the policies of the 'West' enacted through the underhand dealings of their CIA/Mi6/Mossad cohorts.

The biggest terrorist nation is the USA.

I do not "support the exponents of extremism" in any way.

Why exactly are you here?

[wepmob2000]

Ah yes here we go again, everything the Western powers do is wrong or evil, while you people sit silently in the aftermath of other atrocities.

Where were the protests after the bombing in India?

Or Madrid?

Or Bali?

The only people who are innocent are of course the Arabs/ Palestinians/ Lebanese.

Show me the evidence that Israel deliberately targeted civilians at Qana, and that there were not Hezbollah weapons in the near vicinity. A mis-guiding LGB is a very unfortunate regrettable accident, a ruck-sack bomb isn't.

The "Fourth Reich"? I think you should listen to yourself my friend, maybe before the Gestapo get you, perhaps they're monitoring you at this very moment? The very fact you can say such utter tripe without fear, underlines the fact you are living in a democracy. Try going into a town square in Tehran, or Beirut for that matter, and shouting anti-islamic slogans. Go on I dare you, you couldn't even do that in Bradford without risk to life and limb. You really just don't get it..........

[wepmob2000]

Sinclair,

I see now, I can say what I like, as long as it happens to coincide completely with your insane theories, perhaps calls will be made to the moderator to silence me soon?

No wonder you seem to hate free Western democracy and support the proponents of bigotry and hatred.

This is a forum, a place for free discussion of relevant topics, which hopefully is to be kept free from aggressive behavior, childish name-calling, etc.

The whole point of the countries you seek to decry is you are free to say to say what you like, and they will defend your right to say it.

[Abandoned Ego]

[wepmob2000]

Abandoned Ego,

These instances you mention are unusual, but also circumstantial, every event these days has its own conspiracy theories, did man really land on the moon, was the 9/11 attack on the pentagon not an airliner, but a cruise missile?

While these are undoubtedly odd, its indisputable where the majority of evidence in each case seems to lay the blame?

It is very difficult to see what advantage the USA could seek to gain from entering Afghanistan, other than to destroy the Taleban and Al-Qaeda bases.

As for the cenotaph 'protests', this was not a genuine act of rememberance, more a cynical attempt to exploit the soldiers deaths for the protestors own insane ends. Where are these people on Rememberance Sunday I ask? No they don't engage in ceremonies like that, not unless it involves 'remembering' German victims of Allied bombing, whilst conveniently forgetting Warsaw, Rotterdam, London, Leningrad, etc.......

Supposed Allied/Western 'war crimes' are persistently peddled in these 'protests'.

Apparently we were the aggressors in the Falklands, and the Gulf War of 1991 too.

The fact you're sat now comfortably airing your opinions freely on a public forum suggests to me the anti-terror laws are not exactly worrying you. Perhaps it should because apparently anti-terror laws only victimise the innocent, perhaps I should worry too, hmm I'll go and hide under my bed.

Any victim of real oppression, ask for example a Taleban era Afghan woman, or a Russian in the late 1930's, will tell you talk of a "Fourth Reich" is utter twaddle, in fact you are probably amongst the least oppressed people anywhere, ever, period.

I do agree with your point on religion however, historically it has been the most potent tool of oppression ever, 'step out of line and you'll be condemned to an eternity of hell'. I don't disagree that religious fanaticism of all types is wrong, the KKK, various Irish factions, all bad.
Within certain Islamic nations however that kind of religious dogma is now government policy, and this is where the danger lies. Why is it that moderate Arab nations have been virtually silent on these issues surrounding the Lebanon?

[Abandoned Ego]

[wepmob2000]

[Abandoned Ego]

I only wish to address one point here. The rest is a matter of historical fact for anyone who cares to be honest with themselves.

Hows about this for a question from you ?

[wepmob2000]

[Abandoned Ego]

[Garcon Warrior]

Wepmob2000 wrote:

Hmm, so the U.S government sanctions drug peddling too, perhaps it draws taxes from them too, or lures children to its gingerbread house. Fact: The vastly overstretched forces in Afghanistan at this time have more to do than destroy poppy fields. And if they did, then you people would bleat on behalf of the Afghan poppy growers, probably that its a deliberate attempt to starve them... poor oppressed innocent victims of western victims.... blah blah.

Wepmob2000 try reading some information here

http://www.serendipity.li/cia.html#cia_drug_trafficking

and here,

http://www.wandea.org.pl/taliban-heroin.htm

thankyou.

[paul wright]

[Mark Gobell]

Webmop's opinions could be considered ill-informed, but is entitled to his view nonetheless.

If you are seriously interested in debating and persuasion then you have not achieved that.

On the contrary, some attitudes, the number of people and the barrage of information further consolidate an already entrenched position.

And we wonder why war happens.

A plea:

If we have an argument, then present it , politely and respectfully, regardless of your opponent's views, however ill-informed they may appear.

Take things slowly and debate a point at a time.

If you do otherwise you are not helping yourselves or our cause.

Remember that nobody has a monopoly on the truth.

Respectfully.

[wepmob2000]

Mark,

Thankyou for your informed and enlightened view. No, I do not agree with much of what is stated as 'fact' here, but I am no mere mindless recipient of government propaganda either.

Boy, some people here would get a nasty surprise if they knew what the average Joe down the pub thought. For example my boss, a business leader in this town no less, his reaction to the crisis is 'bomb the whole f**king lot of them, nuke em'. He is far from alone.

Most people either care not, or assume a simplistic view like. There may have been nearly 1 million people at the rally prior to Gulf War II, however that still means nearly 57 million didn't bother to attend, or by default actually supported the war.

None of what has been said is in the least convincing that there is any international conspiracy, instead a random blast of, at best circumstantial facts and hearsay that are supposed to prove a case.

Yes there are hidden agendas, even politicians are human after all (well sort of), but who yet can prove any hidden agenda of ourselves, USA, or Israel is worse than the overt anti-semitic agenda of an aggressor nation like Iran?