FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist  Chat Chat  UsergroupsUsergroups  CalendarCalendar RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Was '7/7 bombings trainer' intel informant?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    9/11, 7/7, Covid-1984 & the War on Freedom Forum Index -> Stratehy Of Tension, Fake Terror, 9/11 & 7/7 Truth News
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TonyGosling
Editor
Editor


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:00 pm    Post subject: Was '7/7 bombings trainer' intel informant? Reply with quote


The Guardian, 14 February 2011



Freed because he was a US double agent.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/13/jihadi-train-7-7-bomber-freed

Terrorist who trained 7/7 bomber released after five years
A terrorist who was jailed for founding a training camp where the leader of the July 7 London suicide bombers were taught to make bombs has been released from prison after serving less than five years, it was claimed.

Mohammed Junaid Babar
By Nick Collins 6:45AM GMT 14 Feb 2011
American Mohammed Junaid Babar walked free just four and a half years into a sentence that could have lasted as long as 70, prompting claims he may have been acting as an informant.
The decision to sentence him to "time served" due to what a New York judge termed his "exceptional co-operation" dating back to before his arrest led to suggestions Babar could have been helping US authorities even while helping to train the man who led the 2005 attacks on London.
Babar had admitted being a jihadist connected with senior al-Qaeda figures as he pleaded guilty to five counts of terrorism in a New York court in 2004.
He agreed to plead guilty and become a supergrass for the government in exchange for a significantly shortened sentence in a deal with American prosecutors, The Guardian reported.
Babar's release was compared by lawyers acting on behalf of the families of victims to the decision to let Abdelbaset al-Megrahi, the Lockerbie bomber, leave prison..........
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8322346/Ter rorist-who-trained-77-bomber-released-after-five-years.html

_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/


Last edited by TonyGosling on Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:06 am; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Prole
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 632
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J7: 7/7 Inquests Blog: A cat amongst the [stool] pigeons - Mohammed Junaid Babar
_________________
'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
TonyGosling
Editor
Editor


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He played his role in backing up the terror training camp narrative.

I expected to see stories like this cropping up at this time as MI5 begin to get involved with the inquest, still no evidence apart from plea bargains and tortured mules that Khan and Tanweer ever actually went to these so called terror camps.

If they did, they may have been double agents as well>

Very convenient timing and diverts any public or victims' families outrage away from MI5 and MI6.

_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Prole
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 632
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
He played his role in backing up the terror training camp narrative.

I expected to see stories like this cropping up at this time as MI5 begin to get involved with the inquest, still no evidence apart from plea bargains and tortured mules that Khan and Tanweer ever actually went to these so called terror camps.

If they did, they may have been double agents as well>

Very convenient timing and diverts any public or victims' families outrage away from MI5 and MI6.

Then you obviously failed to read the J7 submission or our blog post or this:
Quote:
The al-Qaida supergrass and the 7/7 questions that remain unanswered

The early release of a jihadi turned US supergrass who helped a London bomber has rung alarm bells. Shiv Malik reports on doubts held by the victims' families

o Shiv Malik
o The Guardian, Monday 14 February 2011

Graham Foulkes's son David, 22, was one of the 52 people killed in a series of terrorist attacks on the London transport system on 7 July 2005 Link to this video

In November 2001 when Mohammed Junaid Babar made his television debut, it was clear what side he was on. "When the American troops enter we will kill them in Afghanistan," he said. The tubby, bespectacled 25-year-old Islamist from Queens, New York, had flown out to Pakistan adamant that he was going to commit murderous treason. Staring into the camera, without any face covering, he told an ITN reporter: "There is no negotiation with Americans. When they're coming in with the mindset to kill my Muslim brothers and sisters, I will do the same on the frontline. I will kill every American that I see."

Babar's chilling words, spoken with a New York twang, were broadcast around the world. His dedication to the cause of jihad could scarcely be doubted. Even though his mother, working as a secretary on the ninth floor of the twin towers, had only narrowly escaped with her life before they collapsed, he had determinedly flown out to Pakistan a little over a week later to do his "Islamic duty" and support al-Qaida and the Taliban.

Over the next 2½ years Babar met senior members of al-Qaida including its No 3, Abdul Hadi, and Omar Sheikh, the killer of US journalist Daniel Pearl, and provided them with money and equipment such as night vision goggles. He ran weapons, sent people into Afghanistan to fight US forces, planned to assassinate the president of Pakistan twice, and in summer 2003 set up a training camp in north-west Pakistan that provided lessons in bomb-making to young British jihadis including the leader of the 7 July cell, Mohammed Sidique Khan.

According to his own testimony Babar met Khan at Islamabad airport and took him to the training camp he had set up. There Khan learned how to fire machine guns, rocket-propel grenades and mix explosives – a crucial step towards making the London bombings the most deadly plot to have been carried out on British soil.

Now released after just a few years, Babar has paid a small penalty for his role in that atrocity. But, if allegations from a US terrorism lawyer are true, Babar may have been working for the US security services while pretending to be a jihadi – allegations that could imply serious failures to prevent the 7 July bombings. Babar's story is the stuff of spy novels. One of the most dangerous home-grown Islamist terrorists the US has known was to become the world's most formidable terror supergrass. Seemingly well embedded in the ranks of al-Qaida, in March 2004 he flew home to New York and moved back into his parents' detached house in the Muslim area of Queens. US authorities have so far not explained why he was not placed on a no-fly list.

Instead, the official version of events records that a month passed before US authorities questioned him. As he walked to night school where he was training to become a taxi driver, three FBI and New York police agents asked Babar to accompany him to their car.

There was no shootout, no dawn raid, nor even a pair of handcuffs; just a tap on the shoulder. Instead of prison, the officers drove Babar to room 538 of the Embassy Suites hotel in downtown Manhattan. The two-bedroom suite had sweeping views of the Hudson river and was just blocks from the wreckage of the twin towers. Although he wasn't under arrest, Babar almost immediately signed a document allowing his sworn enemy, the US government, to question him without a lawyer.

Five days later Babar began telling FBI agents everything he knew about his terrorist work, including highly detailed accounts of his dealings with dozens of jihadis around the world. As one lawyer who led a four-year investigation into Babar put it: "When Babar turns he gives the FBI extraordinary detail. Detail to the point where either you'd have to keep notes … or you have a photographic memory. It's one of the two."

Speaking for the first time on the condition of anonymity, law enforcement agent "A", who stopped Babar on the street and subsequently spent over 500 hours debriefing him, described the five-day questioning session in the hotel as "very hard. Babar was very motivated … So he had a very hard time coming in and turning state's witness. It wasn't easy for him."

On 12 April, two days after being formally arrested, Babar was brought in front of a judge at the southern district court in Manhattan, a dozen blocks from the hotel. The court document dealing with his appearance remains sealed but it is acknowledged that over the next eight weeks Babar hammered out a deal with prosecutors in which he agreed to act for the government and become its informant.

Then, until his release in December 2010, Babar spent the next six years flying around the world, helping to put nearly a dozen people behind bars in three countries and proving to be an invaluable asset. As district judge Victor Marrero heard from government representatives upon his release, Babar's work as a supergrass was "exceptional" and "extraordinary. Mr Babar," acknowledged Marrero, "worked with the FBI and foreign governments to assist in investigations of terrorism organisations, including al-Qaida, and of terrorist activities such as the London bomb plot … As a result of Mr Babar's co-operation, multiple defendants were arrested, prosecuted, and eventually sentenced not just in the United States but in England and Canada as well." Daniel Ollen, Babar's defence attorney who is also speaking for the first time about the case, said that during Babar's sentencing he had never seen a more glowing response from the government in 30 years of working in informant cases. "The government went to bat for Babar. They usually send a letter to the court, they remain mute, they say, 'judge, we rely upon our submission'. But this prosecutor got up and told the court just how good a co-operator he was."

In acknowledgement of his service Babar earned a dramatic reduction in prison time from a possible 70 years behind bars to "time-served" which amounted to just 4½ years, a good proportion of which was spent outside of the regular prison system as he testified in three UK trials and one in Canada. He has also spent the last two years out on bail, walking the streets of the US, settling into a new life under his real name. Ollen confirmed Babar was no longer in the witness protection scheme.

It is a remarkable outcome for a man once considered a highly dangerous terrorist, especially in a country frightened even by the security implications of terrorists being imprisoned and tried on American soil.

From lawyers, to police officers, to journalists, to his former associates, those involved in scrutinising Babar's case agree his transformation from terrorist to the most successful jihadist supergrass of all time was amazing. But now, those people along with the families of those bereaved by the 7 July bombings, are beginning to ask if his story has been all too amazing.

Holes

For the many lawyers defending their clients against Babar's accusations, there have always been glaring holes in Babar's official story. The basic biographical details are not disputed. He was born in 1975, in Nowshera, north-west Pakistan, but moved to the US when his family migrated when he was two. He told a Boston Globe reporter that he grew up listening to the songs of Whitney Houston. He finished high school at Lasalle Military Academy, a Catholic school that by the mid-1990s had dropped all its formal military associations apart from an ethos of heavy discipline. After leaving Lasalle, Babar studied pharmacy at Queens-based St John's University but dropped out after a year because, as he explained in one trial: "I didn't see the point of finishing my education."

A year before 9/11, Babar met and hosted British members of the radical British Islamist group al-Muhajiroun as they attempted to set up a US branch of the organisation led by the bombastic Sheikh Omar Bakri.

It is after September 2001 that Babar's story begins to fray at the edges. What kind of person would fly to Pakistan to support the Taliban just after an al-Qaida operation nearly killed their own mother? As one lawyer in a 2006 British terrorism trial put to Babar while he was in the witness box: "Someone who does that either is so appalled by the acts of al-Qaida that they are going to go and spy for America on jihadis – or they are a very hardline jihadi indeed."

There are also questions about how he was able to fly from the UK to Pakistan and then on to the US without being stopped or questioned, even though his ITN interview about killing Americans, which offered US security officials plenty of identifying details, had been syndicated on television stations around the world.

During the various trials at which Babar made an appearance, it was also revealed he was able to visit a US consulate in Pakistan many times and apply for a green card for the Pakistani wife he married while on jihad duty in 2002, without a question being asked.

Again, why on earth did he fly back to the US in 2004 without warning and for what purpose? Even descriptions of his character are contradictory. Agent A described Babar as "dedicated", "motivated" and "fun" to be with. Former jihadi associates have described him as a bit slow-witted and "chronically lazy", often skipping morning prayers to have a lie-in. Ollen said Babar was "very smart and engaging" but also "very difficult" and took a number of years to "mellow".

One of those publicly asking questions about Babar is Khurrum Wahid, one the most experienced terrorism lawyers in the US. Wahid has run more than a dozen terrorism cases since 9/11 and believes that Babar's story does not add up. Four years ago he was given the brief of defending a client against Babar. Going through thousands of secret documents, he said that alarm bells began ringing when he read the sealed notes from the hotel questioning session.

"The notes of that discussion did not read like he was pressured all that much. I have a lot of clients that have gone through a lot worse and still held out more than Junaid did. If on the one hand you claim to be this hardcore jihadist … that doesn't mesh with flipping after five days in a hotel in New York with a couple of FBI agents. It's not like you were having your nails pulled out in Pakistan ... he seemed to be rolling over really quickly."

In testimony, Babar acknowledged he wasn't "under pressure" from the FBI. They provided him with a toothbrush and change of clothes, and Babar spent most of his five days at the hotel lying in bed or watching TV.

Wahid also said it had never been explained why Babar flew back to the US to start a new life as a taxi driver a few months after meeting one of al-Qaida's highest-ranking operatives. "To me the weirdest action is you go on TV and you say you're a supporter of al-Qaida then you deliberately get on a plane at the height of the anti-terror scare in the US and fly into New York City. It just makes no sense to me at all. For what? To get caught."

Getting caught

Getting caught is exactly what Hassan Butt, a Manchester jihadist who spoke to Wahid, says Babar wanted to happen. Butt and Babar were once close friends. They met at al-Muhajiroun's offices in Lahore, Pakistan, when Babar arrived just after 9/11. Butt introduced Babar to the British reporter from ITN and helped set up that first interview. Butt also gave the same reporter on-the-record interviews about his desire to get involved in the jihadist struggle.

Butt and Babar worked in the al-Muhajiroun office to help process people as they arrived there to fight for the Taliban in Afghanistan. Between 2002 and 2004, as Babar flew back and forth from the UK to Pakistan while plotting terrorist activity, he stayed at Butt's house in Manchester. The pair kept up their association until Babar's arrest.

As with all his other former radical Islamist friends, Babar also turned against Butt. In 2007 Babar gave Greater Manchester police a lengthy statement about Butt's activities indicating that "Butt was heavily involved in terrorist activities while in Pakistan and in the UK". However, unlike others accused by Babar, Butt would never be charged.

While Wahid was investigating Babar on behalf of his client, he went to see Butt in the UK. After a lot of questioning, Butt told him about a pact he and Babar had allegedly devised as a way of getting out of Pakistan. In mid- to late 2002, Butt said, the pair had become disillusioned with their work for al-Muhajiroun. They believed that the British Muslims who had arrived in Pakistan to fight jihad had very little idea about what they were doing. The office was totally disorganised, people were using money raised for jihad for their own personal purposes, and young British jihadists were getting killed in Afghanistan for no real end.

Butt and Babar wanted to get out but since they had both given public TV interviews, there was no way of reintegrating themselves into normal society. So they decided that they needed some other way of extracting themselves.

"Hassan and Junaid get disillusioned to the point of trying to figure out an exit strategy that is still lucrative, that would still give them, for lack of a better term, a career," said Wahid.

Wahid said they came up with a plan to sell themselves to the intelligence community in the UK and the US and perhaps then go on to become pundits on television or in the media. But before they did this they attempted to build up their credibility and so they became more deeply involved within the network of British and foreign jihadists in Pakistan. "Hassan told us that [from around late 2002] his plan was to posture and pretend to be something big and come back and somehow become a part of intelligence."

Speaking to the Guardian, Butt refuted any suggestion he intended to get people in trouble. He said that "it was a money-making scam. Like myself, [Babar] wanted to get out because we realised that we'd put our necks on the line. We both wanted to get out and we thought we'd make the best out of a bad situation." Around late 2002 or early 2003, Butt said he turned to MI5 in the UK and not only began to tell them about himself, but also about Babar, as Babar had himself requested.

"Junaid said look, if you meet the British, make me out to be some big jihadi player," said Butt.

Butt said Babar's training camp where the 7/7 cell leader experimented with bomb-making, was all about furthering this end of "building himself up". When it was time for Babar to turn himself in to the security services, he could show that this was how serious a player he was. It had little to do with global jihad. After Butt himself began co-operating with the UK security services in late 2002, Butt said he did not then discuss with Babar what he would do but assumed that Babar's trips to the US consulate in 2003 were part of his work with US agencies. However, Butt added, the plan "never involved trying to get people in trouble. Junaid did [get people in trouble] and I never, that's the difference".

The line from Babar's sentencing last December, in which the judge spoke about Babar's co-operation with US authorities, "even before his arrest" seems to back up this suggestion. Wahid said that version of events was backed up by confidential emails between Butt and Babar, the content of which he is unable to fully reveal due to the US's classified information procedures act.

What he can say is this: "There were email communications between them that seemed inconsistent with what Junaid is saying with the whole group. So he's talking to the whole group about, you know, that about him staying in Pakistan, saying, 'burn them all'. But communications he's having with Hassan are more along the lines of, 'I want to get married and get back to the US'. So it just didn't match." Until his client pleaded guilty last spring, he was planning to put Butt in the witness box. This new narrative – that Babar had secretly begun co-operating with the US authorities long before his return to New York – would help explain why Babar, despite all his public notoriety across television networks, was able to get on planes without being stopped by the UK or the US.

It would also explain how in 2003-04 he was able to apply for a green card for his wife in his own name without being arrested or questioned. It might also help to explain how the information he gave US prosecutors was so detailed. If he knew he was going to turn himself in he would be far more likely to keep notes and register specific information.

Implications

The police convoy sped through the streets of London towards to the Old Bailey. Outriders cleared the roads and a police helicopter kept watch in case agents of al-Qaida tried to take their revenge. Inside one of those police wagons, handcuffed to an FBI agent, was the star witness in the 2006 Crevice trial, in which six defendants were charged with planning to blow up a shopping centre and nightclubs.

For more than three weeks in 2006, Babar spoke from the witness box and explained to the world that six of his former associates were guilty of plotting an attack that could have killed hundreds had it not been stopped. If the allegations about Babar's real provenance turn out to be true Babar's credibility in that trial and others would be thrown into doubt.

Lawyers close to the 2006 trial believe that these questions about Babar, including the admission from the sentencing judge that Babar had co-operated with US authorities before his arrest, could result in at least one conviction going straight to appeal.

But most important are the implications for the families of the bereaved of the London bombings.

Graham Foulkes, a magistrate from Greater Manchester, lost his 22-year-old son David on 7 July, when Mohammed Sidique Khan detonated his rucksack full of explosives. That Babar could have been working with US authorities before 2004 has left him feeling "horrified" and "unwell".

Foulkes added: "There's a hint from one or two of the sentences that do strongly suggest the co-operation was going well beyond his official arrest. And it looks as if the Americans may well have known in detail what Babar was up to in Pakistan [at the time] and that is a very, very serious matter. I'm really horrified and upset. It seems to me that the Americans were tacitly supporting a major international terrorist who set up and ran a training camp which Khan attended. Khan then went on to kill my son and [the cell] went on kill dozens and seriously injure many, many people."

Those questions about whether Khan, the 7/7 cell leader, should have been identified and arrested well before the bombings will be asked during the next phase of the 7 July inquest beginning this week.

What is publicly acknowledged is that Babar knew the bomber Khan by the pseudonym "Ibrahim". He gave US and British law enforcement information about Ibrahim years before the fateful day in London, including that Ibrahim was from West Yorkshire.

However, when law enforcement agents showed Babar a surveillance photo of Khan, Babar could not identify him and the connection between Ibrahim and Khan was not made until after 7 July when pictures of Khan appeared in the press. When it comes to answering new questions about Babar's possible earlier involvement with US intelligence, there is a shroud of silence.

Asked whether Babar was working for the US government before April 2004, the official response is "no comment". Even those previously willing to talk about the case suddenly become reticent and terminate conversations. Twenty-two documents out of 30 on the public court docket remain sealed even though Babar has been sentenced. One US official stated that these court documents are likely to remain sealed "forever". A further 25,000 pieces of documentary evidence relating to the wider case remain classified.

When the office of Judge Marrero was asked to clarify what he meant by his remark that Babar had co-operated with US authorities "even before his arrest", it refused to comment. When the US attorney's office was given a list of 11 questions about Babar's activities including if he had ever worked with US authorities before his detention, its first response was: "Unfortunately, it doesn't look like there's any additional information in the public record that we can give you to help you with these questions." When asked further questions over the phone, the response was again a long silence followed by "no comment".

When agent A was asked whether Babar had co-operated with the US authorities before his arrival in the US in 2004, he replied: "I know I'm being elusive but I really can't speak about this stuff. I mean, not without the authority of the government. And I could really help you out but I don't know what's proper to be released."

When agent A was asked whether Babar gave enough information about Khan for the intelligence community to identify him well before the London bombings in 2005, he said: "It's not that I don't have that information, it's just that I can't answer that question."

When these same questions were put to Daniel Ollen, he replied that he was unlikely to know the truth of the matter. "They don't clue the defence attorney in on a lot of it, especially if you're not going to trial. If you go to trial you're privy to a lot of the secrets. But when you're co-operating from the get-go, you don't get discovery," he said.

Foulkes believes that the foreign secretary, William Hague, should meet the families. "The foreign secretary has a duty to intervene now on behalf of us to try and get to the heart of this," he said. Foulkes also believes that the terms of reference of the inquest are too narrow to deal with such questions and thinks that it should be suspended while they are re-evaluated.

"You can never describe how losing your son in such circumstances feels. To know that [it was] at least potentially preventable if the Americans had been more co-operative with sharing this information [from Babar] really is very sickening … We should consider suspending [the inquest] because the scope is too narrow [to deal with] this alarming new information."

There is of course one person who knows the definitive truth, Babar himself. His defence lawyer said he did not know of his client's whereabouts. "I have intentionally stayed ignorant of all that … I don't want to know. Wouldn't you want to know where a mafia was? No. If somebody puts a gun to my head, I go, 'I don't know where he is'."

At Babar's family house – a small, wooden, detached home, on a street not far from the subway in Jamaica, Queens – Babar's cousin, who said she was house-sitting for Babar's mother while she was in Pakistan, said she did not know where Babar or his wife were.

The trail is not entirely cold. A few months ago as he was being sentenced Judge Marrero invited Babar to add a few words. Almost a decade later, he was no longer the man who proclaimed death to Americans, steadfast in his hatred and objectives. Instead he was full of regret, and voiced more conventional ideas about his future.

"I take full responsibility for my actions in the past, and I have no one to blame but myself for the current predicament. I have also learned that I might disagree with some people. But it doesn't mean that I have to turn to violence … As far as my decisions in the past, I can't go back and change them. I regret the decisions that I made. Hopefully in the future I can just finish school and stay with my family."

_________________
'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
conspiracy analyst
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double agent used to mean double if one worked for two countries did it not?

A double agent of one person working for either the CIA or MI5 does not equal a double agent but a single one.

Working for Al CIAda does not equal double either.

Working for the so-called 7/7 bomberd does not equal double either.

The man was a single agent working for the CIA pure and simple so was the 7/7 operation...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TonyGosling
Editor
Editor


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:41 am    Post subject: Early release of a jihadi rings alarm bells for 7/7 victims Reply with quote

Early release of a jihadi turned US supergrass who helped a London bomber has rung alarm bells.

The Babar revelations about Khan are not new, they first surfaced a little over a week after 7/7. Babar is one of the only 'witnesses' that corroborates the official speculation that Khan was trained in bomb making in Pakistan. If indeed he was and it does transpire that Babar was an intel asset as far back as 2003 when Khan was apparently trained at a terror camp in the summer then this of course raises huge questions.

Guardian: 'Babar "began co-operating even before his arrest", has raised the possibility, supported by other circumstantial evidence obtained by the Guardian, that he may have been an informant for the US government before his detention by the FBI in April 2004. -

Jihadi who helped train 7/7 bomber freed by US after just five years
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/13/jihadi-train-7-7-bomber-freed

More information in the other Guardian article suggests his 'co-operation' may have gone back as far as 2001.

The al-Qaida supergrass and the 7/7 questions that remain unanswered.
The early release of a jihadi turned US supergrass who helped a London bomber has rung alarm bells. Shiv Malik reports on doubts held by the victims' families
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/14/al-qaida-supergrass-77-questi ons

The press have changed their tune. The majority of the 2005 stories of Babar used much more cautious language when referring to Babar's statements. Years later and the language has morphed from Khan was said to have attended radical religious schools in Pakistan to without question he attended and they were full on terror training camps in Pakistan where he learnt everything he needed to mastermind the 7/7 bombings. Is this a leap in perspective? Why is this guy being regarded as more truthful than ever, especially as it now appears he was a stooge all along?

Guardian: 'An American jihadist who set up the terrorist training camp where the leader of the 2005 London suicide bombers learned how to manufacture explosives has been quietly released after serving only four and a half years of a possible 70-year sentence, a Guardian investigation has learned.' -

Jihadi who helped train 7/7 bomber freed by US after just five years
Exclusive: Release prompts claim Islamist was US informant while assisting London terrorist
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/13/jihadi-train-7-7-bomber-freed

Guardian: 'in summer 2003 set up a training camp in north-west Pakistan that provided lessons in bomb-making to young British jihadis including the leader of the 7 July cell, Mohammed Sidique Khan.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/14/al-qaida-supergrass-77-questi ons

I'm sorry but why is the Guardian reporting this as if it is fact?

Much of 7/7 investigative journalism has been about the shaping of public perception, what happened, through sources in the press and the official narratives. In my view the press have been drip feeding the public with ever more certain versions of the initial iffy narrative, but without the evidence. A fundamental part of the narrative is that Khan and Tanweer were likely trained in how to do bombings when visiting Pakistan.
Now, thanks to the naivety of the mainstream press, Babar's testimony is being publicised in a way that no longer doubts the authenticity of his statements regarding Khan being trained at these supposed terror camps.

Important questions have been posed to the inquest regarding the likely intelligence tracking of Babar and his mysterious ability to fly in and out unhindered.

As they infer in the Guardian and also in many stories back in 2005, the FBI and NYPD apparently had been told about Khan by Babar pre 7/7, but the information was apparently not specific enough. So some of the blame will likely be shared with the Americans in terms of preventability, especially if it is true Babar was indeed working as an informant for them. The blame game and 'lack of proper intelligence sharing' rhetoric may serve to take some heat away from MI5 in the inquest.

With regard to Khan and Tanweer also being informants, this is the opinion of some reputed intelligence analysts and as you say in your article:

How would Khan and Tanweer have known that they were not under investigation given the following facts:

29 March 2004: Momin Khawaja was arrested in Canada in the culmination of what was reported as a “a month long sting operation”

30 March 2004: Eight arrests were made of men who were known to Khan and Tanweer as part of Operation Crevice.

June 2004: news broke that the FBI had been holding Mohammed Junaid Babar in custody in New York since April 2004. It was reported that he was negotiating a plea bargain with the authorities.

A cat amongst the [stool] pigeons - Mohammed Junaid Babar
http://77inquests.blogspot.com/2011/02/cat-amongst-stool-pigeons-moham med.html

Well maybe they felt they didn't need to concern themselves. From speaking to those that have read the ISC reports I'm told that it is inconceivable that MI5 and WYP would not have identified Khan and Tanweer if it is indeed true they were keeping the company we are told that they were. For me that points to either utter incompetence or that Khan and Tanweer were being shielded from investigation.

Anyway, the mainstream media report the testimony of the likes of Babar as if fact - and we have to ask ourselves why?

_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
TonyGosling
Editor
Editor


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Did the US and Britain Know Prior to the July 7 London Bombings?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23243

by Robert Stevens - Global Research, February 16, 2011 - World Socialist Web Site
The release of terrorist Mohammed Junaid Babar, due to “exceptional cooperation” beginning before his arrest, raises the question: How much prior knowledge did the US and British authorities have about the July 7, 2005, terror bombings in London?
Babar was arrested in April 2004 by the FBI and confessed to US prosecutors that he had set up a training camp in northwest Pakistan in 2003. Among those he trained was Mohammad Sidique Khan, one of the four suicide bombers who participated in the London Tube and bus bombings that killed 52 people and injured more than 750. It now appears that Babar was a long-term informant, who is being described in the press as a “super-grass”.
Babar told the FBI that he had provided lodgings and transport for nearly a dozen Islamist radicals, training them in how to fire machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades, and build homemade bombs. When arrested in 2004, he told US prosecutors that he knew Khan as “Ibrahim”.
The Guardian writes that at that time, “British terrorism investigators showed Babar an unclear surveillance photo of Khan in August 2004, but Babar failed to identify him.” However, Babar claims that, upon seeing images of Khan in newspapers after the July 2005 London bombings, he contacted US authorities straight away. He said, “I told them [the American authorities] that was the person that was Ibrahim. I had mentioned Ibrahim before July 2005” (emphasis added).
In 2004, Babar pleaded guilty in as part of a plea bargain at a New York court to five counts of terrorism and was jailed, with his final sentence being deferred. He admitted to knowing leading figures within the Al Qaeda network and said he had provided them with money and equipment. Babar said he had been involved in running weapons, and the planning of two attempts to assassinate General Pervez Musharraf, the former president of Pakistan.
Babar was also given immunity from prosecution in Britain after pleading guilty to the terrorism offences. In 2008, he was granted bail and told by a judge that the offences he admitted to carry a maximum 70-year term. In July 2010, probation services authored a report stating that he should remain in prison for another 30 years.
His release after serving just four-and-a-half years poses the question of whether he was an agent of the US government and a long-time informer, even before the London bombings.
In an exclusive published Monday, the Guardian reported that Babar was released on December 10 of last year by a New York court—six years after his initial arrest and subsequent guilty plea. The Guardian states, “He was released early in a deal with prosecutors for the US attorney’s office,” after he had “agreed to plead guilty and become a government supergrass in return for a drastically reduced sentence.”
The US court document obtained by the newspaper revealed that he was sentenced to “time served” and charged $500 (£310) by the court in a “special assessment” fee. In total, he spent just over four years in some form of prison and more than two years free on bail, the document stated.
The sentencing document that released him contains wording strongly suggesting that Babar was an agent of the US government prior to his April 2004 arrest. Judge Victor Marrero stated that Babar “began co-operating even before his arrest”.
The Guardian reports that the US attorney’s office compiled its own report, known as a 5K1, which was sent to the New York court. An extract of the document read out in court stated, “Over the last six and a half years the level of assistance provided by Babar to both the United States government and foreign governments has been more than substantial. It has been extraordinary.”
The court transcript reveals that the government’s letter stated that since his arrest “the defendant has testified previously at four different trials involving numerous terrorist defendants, three trials in the UK and one in Canada. Both governments and prosecutorial arms of those governments have made clear that they determined that Mr. Babar’s testimony in that case was not only credible, but critical in the ultimate convictions secured in those cases”.
It is now acknowledged by the US government that a man who admitted involvement in terrorist activities, including the UK’s worst mainland terrorist atrocity, and who personally knew one of the London suicide bombers, was providing a “substantial” and “extraordinary” level of assistance “to both the United States government and foreign governments” prior to his April 2004 arrest.

In the aftermath of the July 7 bombings, then-Home Secretary Charles Clarke said the attacks came “out of the blue” and the four bombers—Mohammad Siddique Khan, Shehzad Tanweer, Germaine Lindsay and Hasib Hussain—were “clean skins” with no known links to terrorism. Ministers and senior security officials insisted there was no warning of an imminent attack. Then-Prime Minister Tony Blair told Parliament on July 11, 2005, “I know of no intelligence specific enough” to have prevented the attacks.

These assertions are refuted by the Babar revelations.
A wealth of evidence has come to light, proving that the security services were tracking the movements of the would-be bombers and must have been well aware of the threat they posed. Many of these facts were documented in an Intelligence and Security Committee (ISC) investigation into the London bombings, released in May 2009—despite its efforts to a whitewash the failure of MI5 to stop the four suicide-bombers.
It stated that in late March 2003, MI5 received intelligence that Mohammed Quayam Khan, from Luton, was the leader of an “Al-Qaida facilitation network” that provided financial and logistical support to the organisation. MI5 launched an investigation called Operation Crevice, about which it informed the ISC.
In May 2004, a detainee revealed that a man named “Ibrahim” had travelled to Pakistan in 2003 and met the future Crevice group members there. After what has emerged about the role of Babar, the question posed was whether he was the “detainee” named in the ISC report.
On April 12, 2005, following confirmation from another source that “Ibrahim” had been in Pakistan, MI5 launched Operation DO*** (the full name was redacted in the ISC report) to identify him.
The fact that Mohammed Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer had been known to the intelligence services at least five months before they made their attack was also revealed in the trial of seven men in the “fertiliser bomb plot” trial in London in May 2007. The London court heard that Omar Khyam, described as the “ringleader” of the fertiliser plot, held meetings with Khan and Tanweer on four occasions in 2004. These were recorded by Britain’s MI5 intelligence service.
No one has ever been held responsible for the atrocities that took place. A 2009 trial found three men not guilty of helping to plan the July 7 bombings. Despite a massive police investigation costing some £100 million, they remain the only people to have faced any charges in relation to the London bombings.
A World Socialist Web Site article, dated July 11, 2005, drew attention to an Associated Press report published at 12:16 p.m. on July 7, authored by Amy Teibel in Jerusalem. It stated, “British police told the Israeli Embassy in London minutes before Thursday’s explosions that they had received warnings of possible terror attacks in the city, a senior Israeli official said.”
This report was taken down within hours, following denials by Israeli officials. Stratfor, which has links to US intelligence and military authorities, also alleged that Israel had given the UK prior warning of an attack on London.
The WSWS also noted “the extraordinary decision by the British authorities to downgrade the official threat level for the country, at a time when it was hosting the G8 summit of major industrial nations.”
In June 2005, MI5’s Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre (JTAC) downgraded the threat level because it deemed that the risk of an attack was at its lowest point since 9/11. There are seven threat levels, and on July 7, Britain was on “substantial,” which is the fourth level behind “severe general,” “severe specific,” and “imminent.” It had been at the higher level during campaigning in May for the British general election. The article stated, “With up to 4,000 police on duty at any one time in the environs of the summit, held outside Edinburgh, Scotland, the event was at the centre of the biggest security operation in UK history.”
A coroner's inquiry into the bombings in 2005 is being held in London. Barrister on behalf of the bereaved families, Caoilfhionn Gallagher, told the coroner her clients wanted to know that that UK security services “were not aware of any basis for the suggestion that Babar had been an informant for the authorities for any country prior to his detention” in 2004.
Robert Stevens is a frequent contributor to Global Research. Global Research Articles by Robert Stevens.......

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23243

_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Prole
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 632
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
Now, thanks to the naivety of the mainstream press, Babar's testimony is being publicised in a way that no longer doubts the authenticity of his statements regarding Khan being trained at these supposed terror camps.

Huh? Do you mean to say that there have been articles in the mainstream press before Babar's testimony that ever threw doubt on this? If so I'd like to see them.

_________________
'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
TonyGosling
Editor
Editor


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read it again.
Bridget Dunne wrote:
TonyGosling wrote:
Now, thanks to the naivety of the mainstream press, Babar's testimony is being publicised in a way that no longer doubts the authenticity of his statements regarding Khan being trained at these supposed terror camps.

Huh? Do you mean to say that there have been articles in the mainstream press before Babar's testimony that ever threw doubt on this? If so I'd like to see them.

_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Prole
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 632
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
Read it again.
Bridget Dunne wrote:
TonyGosling wrote:
Now, thanks to the naivety of the mainstream press, Babar's testimony is being publicised in a way that no longer doubts the authenticity of his statements regarding Khan being trained at these supposed terror camps.

Huh? Do you mean to say that there have been articles in the mainstream press before Babar's testimony that ever threw doubt on this? If so I'd like to see them.

I did read it and I questioned your premise.

In fact Babar's testimony can now be doubted, just as Supergrass convictions in the 6 counties eventually were. The connections between Babar and 'Q' will have to be examined next week at the Inquests and just how much was known about these assets by the spooks can't be hidden or concealed although they might be attempting to get their stories straight as always.

As far as explosives training in Pakistan goes, Babar's testimony aids the case that these weren't some form of pepper bomb, as he claims he used ammonium nitrate in the 'training camps' ergo he can't have 'trained the bombers'.

_________________
'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Prole
Validated Poster
Validated Poster


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 632
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J7: 7/7 Inquests Blog: McDaid Who?
_________________
'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Disco_Destroyer
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6342

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does a Hells Angel know this stuff? Has he befriended the fellas?
Or is he illegally snooping at other peoples files?
Trust them bunch of villains to be involved somewhere though Wink

_________________
'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'


“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”


www.myspace.com/disco_destroyer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
outsider
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 6060
Location: East London

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

conspiracy analyst wrote:
Double agent used to mean double if one worked for two countries did it not?

A double agent of one person working for either the CIA or MI5 does not equal a double agent but a single one.

Working for Al CIAda does not equal double either.

Working for the so-called 7/7 bomberd does not equal double either.

The man was a single agent working for the CIA pure and simple so was the 7/7 operation...


Seems to me pretty clear:

(1)McDaid and McLintock were 'agent provocateurs', and any statements by either should be taken as parroting the State's 'narrative'.
The Guardian's 'exposing' anything either of them said is tantamount to supporting the State's basic 'narrative' that the four guys 'put in the frame' committed the atrocity.
I don't believe for a moment they did, nor do many posters on these sites; why 'Global Reasearch' takes up such a sloppy position, I suppose, is the same reason the likes of Chumsky, Zinn, GG, Monbiot et al do.
I won't state my opinion what this reason is, it is after all an opinion.

(2)Bombs inside a train blow metal floors 'downwards', not 'upwards' (unless, of course, the ingenious fiends had a new-fangled 'vacuum bomb' - but then, the 'State' claim it was a conventional bomb - though they seem to have given different 'narratives' of what they comprised.

Great stuff, J7, in publicising this stuff; I am a 9/11'er, and really have little interest in 7/7, other than in wishing well all those who valliantly and intrepidly try to get at and expose the truth.

_________________
'And he (the devil) said to him: To thee will I give all this power, and the glory of them; for to me they are delivered, and to whom I will, I give them'. Luke IV 5-7.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    9/11, 7/7, Covid-1984 & the War on Freedom Forum Index -> Stratehy Of Tension, Fake Terror, 9/11 & 7/7 Truth News All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group