Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:09 pm Post subject: German Hyperinflation=Was it Pre-Planned?
@ conspiracy analyst: I don't believe for one moment that you do not know what I am talking about.
Perhaps we should take this tangent to another thread, in 'Other Conspiracies' maybe, on the mechanisms behind German hyper-inflation during the '20's? Starting with Max Warburg, Rudolf Havenstein, Hugo Pruess & Jakob Goldschmidt...to name a few of the instigators.
Brother Nathaniel? No thanks, except for his dubious entertainment value... (For self-serving parody I prefer Cohen's ghastly 'Borat' ;-) However, I note from your link that Bro' Nat has also finally zeroed in on some of the financial criminals of that era.
I can see from your stance and your 4 tabulated points that you appear to have no intention of presenting fact, just more myth and obscuration. Not even biographies (NOT from Wikipedia please!) of the four pivotal creeps I mentioned?
Do you really want to help reveal the mechanisms behind Weimar inflation (and its extraordinary parallels with the present situation with western bankers) or just protect your shibboleths and extend the life of those hellbent on sucking everything decent out of the world, merely for their own aggrandizement?
For some as yet unexplained reason, 'we' are not allowed to air the Pees of Zed on this forum and even a mention of Adam Weishaupt is frowned upon, so 'The Quest for Truth' is shackled right from the word go. Rampant hypocrisy or arm twisting from those with the most to lose?
"C. The concept of a pre-planned collapse has to have a reason."
Indeed it must, and to understand the basisof why and how, (not that he covers Weimar specifically) I can only reiterate my plea for people here to read W.G.Carr's "Pawns in the Game" as an overview, once again available (despite Yarmulka Inc's assiduous attempts at squashing it, over and over again) at:-
and for in depth study of post-Versailles Germany, the annals of 'Zionistische Vereinigung fuer Deutschland' and 'Juedische Rundschau' are most illuminating for those who can be arsed to dredge over the (now) obvious.
"D. Most of your arguments have no logic. They just slot fake jews in to anything to argue its pre-planned..."
to which I can only respond by noting that "logic is mankind's most sophisticated tool yet devised for going utterly wrong with complete confidence."
as for:-
"A. I dont believe jews have existed as a nation or an international entity ever.
B. There were Germans who followed judaism and there were Germans who were labelled jews."
...I'll leave you with the words of megalomaniac Jabotinski:-
"“The fight against Germany has now been waged for months by every Jewish community, on every conference, in all labour unions and by every single Jew in the world. There are reasons for the assumption that our share of this fight is of general importance.
We shall start a spiritual and material war of the whole world against Germany. Germany is striving to become once again a great nation and to recover her lost territories as well as her colonies. But our Jewish interests call for the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews.”"
and the ill-fated Louis McFadden who remarked at the time:-
"“It was not accidental. It was a carefully contrived occurrence...The international bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair here so that they might emerge as rulers of us all.”" - although he was referring to the 'other' so-called 'great depression' of that era. _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
In further reference to your 'D:' and my comment upon logic, we could be nearing the basis of that particular dichotomy by quoting from J. Zollschau, Das Rassenproblem unter besonderer Berucksichtigung der theoretischen Grundlagen der judischen Rassenfrage (1910), p. 298. wherein:-
"In civilized man, the consciously creative intellect replaces blind instinct. The task of the intellect is to extinguish instinct, to replace impulses by purposeful will, to reflect instead of merely perceiving. The individual only becomes a complete man when the activity of his reason dissolves and replaces all existing predispositions and quenches his instincts. When the detachment from instinct is complete, we have before us absolute Genius with its entire inner freedom from natural law. It is the task of civilized life to emancipate itself from all mysticism, from everything obscure and impulsive in the life of instinct, and to develop the purely rational form of the intellect."
My italics, FWIW. Hyper-cobblers to accompany hyper-inflation, IMO ;-) _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
If you are in control why bring about despair? You are in control.
Who are these international banksters? Are they one and the same?
So the monarchies that ruled Russia for 1,000 years who were God on earth were overthrown by whom?
Everyone is apparently a pawn in the game of international banksters yet the list of these banksters appears nowhere.
The analysis of nation states with specific issues, histories is reduced to non-class entities whereby the actors on stage called pawns and they are all on the same side, even when they are trying to wipe each other out.
A modern version of this is that Saddam is on the side of America, so he allows the invasion of his country so America goes bankrupt from it and has a massive financial crash, 5,000 dead soldiers and 150,000 maimed o injured army personnel. Re run it another way Stalin wanted Russia invaded so he could beat Hitler at a cost of hundred of cities destroyed and 30 odd million dead let alone tens more millions wounded.
The history of nations, from pre-agricultural, to agricultural, to mercantile, the rise and fall of Empires too many too mention is reduced to an inside job, set up prior to it being started. So why bother trying to change anything or say anything to teach us about pawns, when everything is controlled? There would be no point, whatever you do or say, the game is rigged. Suicide would be the option.
PS
I have a read a few of the chapters of the book you showed me and it the ramblings of an individual who just wants to emphasise the alleged 'jewishness' of Trotsky when he was Russian through and through.
War is Fluid, always is and will be, once the lid is off it is very hard to predict out comes, small wonder why certain funders suddenly switch sides
The elite rarely get in the firing line though, they have the hidden retreats etc. hence 'I thought this battle was going to take place far from here'.
In fact I bet once the dust settles they go back to slapping backs and thighs and having a good joke about their undertakings with the very people they try to oust!
Gaddafi is a clear snapshot of this :0 _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
Good post, c a but you seem to be denying that there is a contiguous longterm goal with these 'hidden-in-plain-sight' maniacs.
"Everyone is apparently a pawn in the game of international banksters yet the list of these banksters appears nowhere."
How do you work that out? Their names surface eventually and as they become emboldened they become more noticeable. Many researchers, Eustace Mullins being a prime example, have clearly identified pivotal personalities and families. These days it's easier as we are able to get hold of names from both sides of the controlling fence - Bilderberg, TABD & WEF largely for the Nasties; CFR, Trilateral, Tavistock etc etc for the Zionists.
Over and above all are 13 clearly identifiable families whose roots disappear into prehistory. However, it has become clear that their aims have never waivered or deviated from a determination to create inordinate wealth and power for themselves with everyone else as their slaves.
Of course it's complex, shrouded in uncertainties and a continuously, assiduously renewed fog of myth - would 'they' have it otherwise if they are determined to avoid the tar and pitchfork brigades, generation after generation?
Seems they might have slipped up since Nilus, IMO...pushed too hard, too fast. What worked at Waterloo doesn't work now. I believe you already quoted Brzezinski's 'global awakening' - listen to the man, as he is a reflection of Committee of 300/ Illuminati/ Zionist thought.
A pox on all usurers for they are the #1 enemy of compassionate mankind.
"So why bother trying to change anything or say anything to teach us about pawns, when everything is controlled? There would be no point, whatever you do or say, the game is rigged. Suicide would be the option. "
How strange! Would it not be more positive to identify and at least attempt to neutralize the protagonists? You talk like poor old Monbiot's analogy of the smaller squirrel... ;-)
"I have a read a few of the chapters of the book you showed me and it the ramblings of an individual who just wants to emphasise the alleged 'jewishness' of Trotsky when he was Russian through and through."
Carr is hardly rambling, with full access to CSIS of that era (plus a rather unhealthy dose of right wing Christianity to help skew his perception, IMO), I would have thought? Your singling out of Trotsky raises the knotty issue of that-which-cannot-be-named in this forum. I'm surprised you cannot perceive (or is it 'admit'? ;) the mechanism, quite frankly. And Rosa Luxemburg? How does she fit in your view? To me, she is a classic example of how easily 'our masters' discard their vassals to suit changing conditions in their grasp on power...
Again: A pox on all usurers for they are the #1 enemy of compassionate mankind.
@ D_D Hard to say what Gaddafi is - a deadly Joker, for sure.
Above all, study the mechanism whereby Britain was sold lock, stock and people to Rothschilds after Waterloo - it's a template for all that has followed... _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
... ... ...Starting with Max Warburg, Rudolf Havenstein, Hugo Pruess & Jakob Goldschmidt...to name a few of the instigators.
Oh look - what do they share in common...?
Just to clear up this point and answer my own rhetorical question - Zionism, not necessarily Judaism.
And for good measure, once again here's a 1920's 'Ron Paul' figure telling it like it was:-
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Republican Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking & Currency Committee from 1920 to 1931, would state the following in relation to this {Weimar hyper-inflation},
“After World War 1, Germany fell into the hands of the German International Bankers. Those bankers bought her and now they own her, lock, stock, and barrel. They have purchased her industries, they have mortgages on her soil, they control her production, they control all her public utilities.
The international German bankers have subsidized the present Government of Germany and they have also supplied every dollar of the money Adolf Hitler has used in his lavish campaign to build up a threat to the government of Bruening. When Bruening fails to obey the orders of the German International Bankers, Hitler is brought forth to scare the Germans into submission...
Through the Federal Reserve Board over 30 billion of dollars of American money...has been pumped into Germany...You have all heard of the spending that has taken place in Germany...modernistic dwellings, her great planetariums, her gymnasiums, her swimming pools, her fine public highways, her perfect factories.
All this was done on our money. All this was given to Germany through the Federal Reserve Board. The Federal Reserve Board...has pumped so many billions of dollars into Germany that they dare not name the total.”
{Interestingly, the money pumped in to Germany to build her up in preparation for World War 2, is into the German Thyssen banks which are affiliated with the Rothschild controlled Harriman interest in New York.}
Disco_Destroyer wrote:
War is Fluid, always is and will be, once the lid is off it is very hard to predict out comes, small wonder why certain funders suddenly switch sides.
There are many corroborated examples of this, indeed. Here's a notable explanation as to why banksters couldn't care a toss about the fluidity of War:-
War is Fluid, always is and will be, once the lid is off it is very hard to predict out comes, small wonder why certain funders suddenly switch sides
The elite rarely get in the firing line though, they have the hidden retreats etc. hence 'I thought this battle was going to take place far from here'.
In fact I bet once the dust settles they go back to slapping backs and thighs and having a good joke about their undertakings with the very people they try to oust!
Gaddafi is a clear snapshot of this :0
One could argue that revolutions are also fluid. Men start to make their own destiny when the enter the the realms of revolution.
Every single member of the Russian elite were wiped out after years of civil war and the rise of stalinism. Most of them ended up in Europe or shot. This Rothschilds is behind everything solve this riddle by claiming all were on the payroll from Stalin to Trotsky to Lenin...
But there were lists of names, there was an aristocracy with land and titles and Stalin was a common garden hoodlum. Now if Rothschilds used Stalin to control Russia from afar then how come in 1900 Russia was essentially on the same level as India and by 1950 it had become a superpower to match the USA, whilst Britain had lost its Empire?
Was this Rothschild as well? When one substitutes the struggle of nations, the rise and fall of Empires with the machinations of one man we enter the realms of superstition as we substitute reality with the machinatioins of the 'hidden hand'...
Good post, c a but you seem to be denying that there is a contiguous longterm goal with these 'hidden-in-plain-sight' maniacs.
"Everyone is apparently a pawn in the game of international banksters yet the list of these banksters appears nowhere."
How do you work that out? Their names surface eventually and as they become emboldened they become more noticeable. Many researchers, Eustace Mullins being a prime example, have clearly identified pivotal personalities and families. These days it's easier as we are able to get hold of names from both sides of the controlling fence - Bilderberg, TABD & WEF largely for the Nasties; CFR, Trilateral, Tavistock etc etc for the Zionists.
Over and above all are 13 clearly identifiable families whose roots disappear into prehistory. However, it has become clear that their aims have never waivered or deviated from a determination to create inordinate wealth and power for themselves with everyone else as their slaves.
Of course it's complex, shrouded in uncertainties and a continuously, assiduously renewed fog of myth - would 'they' have it otherwise if they are determined to avoid the tar and pitchfork brigades, generation after generation?
Seems they might have slipped up since Nilus, IMO...pushed too hard, too fast. What worked at Waterloo doesn't work now. I believe you already quoted Brzezinski's 'global awakening' - listen to the man, as he is a reflection of Committee of 300/ Illuminati/ Zionist thought.
A pox on all usurers for they are the #1 enemy of compassionate mankind.
"So why bother trying to change anything or say anything to teach us about pawns, when everything is controlled? There would be no point, whatever you do or say, the game is rigged. Suicide would be the option. "
How strange! Would it not be more positive to identify and at least attempt to neutralize the protagonists? You talk like poor old Monbiot's analogy of the smaller squirrel...
"I have a read a few of the chapters of the book you showed me and it the ramblings of an individual who just wants to emphasise the alleged 'jewishness' of Trotsky when he was Russian through and through."
Carr is hardly rambling, with full access to CSIS of that era (plus a rather unhealthy dose of right wing Christianity to help skew his perception, IMO), I would have thought? Your singling out of Trotsky raises the knotty issue of that-which-cannot-be-named in this forum. I'm surprised you cannot perceive (or is it 'admit'? the mechanism, quite frankly. And Rosa Luxemburg? How does she fit in your view? To me, she is a classic example of how easily 'our masters' discard their vassals to suit changing conditions in their grasp on power...
Again: A pox on all usurers for they are the #1 enemy of compassionate mankind.
@ D_D Hard to say what Gaddafi is - a deadly Joker, for sure.
Above all, study the mechanism whereby Britain was sold lock, stock and people to Rothschilds after Waterloo - it's a template for all that has followed...
That families control certain countries and certain societies is not in dispute. What is in dispute is that they control the world. The rise of China
now or of Russia before it is linked to which specific families?
Why not produce the list of names?
You then go on to talk about what cannot be named in the forum so I am confused what you mean as I am not necessarily the forum so you could PM what you are trying to say...
You then try to say something about Trotsky then go on to Luxembourg? Again I fail to understand what you are saying? All you say about they are quick to discard their vassals which I presume you mean to bump them off when they are no longer in use.
Within marxist economics there are two strands of thought. That capitalism once globalised will lead to collapse (Luxembourgs) view and Lenins view that there is no final crisis for capitalism until someone buries it. They presumabely are both on the side of the banksters, so its a shame this was lost on the Russian banksters themselves who lost everything in the Russian Revolution, the civil war after and Stalin in the 1930's.
But we are still left with the issues of today which are far more pressing than yesterday. Why issue so much debt, pretend everybody will become a millionaire, ensure a whole layer of parasites are created, lawyers, estate agents, buy to let neo-rachmanites (who apparently was a Polish jew and died from mutliple heart attacks at the age of 42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Rachman). The video clip you show talks about control via the vehicle of debt, but this is the path of the destruction of all value via the mechanism of hyper-inflation.
So you haven't answered my original point. Why go through the motions of an artifical boom or debt induced property bubble (2001-2007) in order to have a crash and rob everyone. Why not just rob em direct if you control them?
I have never heard of putting money in peoples pockets in order then to steal it? Why not just put it in yours direct ie print currency turn yourself into a zillionaire and ignore all else or just wipe out with a new viral disease as they are a superfluous to your existence?
When cycle forecaster Charles Nenner told the Fox Business network yesterday that the Dow Jones was set to collapse to the 5,000 level on the back of a “major war” that will shake the globe at the end of 2012, hosts David Asman and Elizabeth MacDonald sat in stunned silence.
Nenner, a former technical analyst for Goldman Sachs, is head of the Charles Nenner Research Center, which purports to be able to predict market trends with a computer program based around pattern forecasting and securities analysis. Nenner predicted the stock market and housing collapse over two years before the fall of Lehman Brothers.
Nenner predicts that the Dow is heading down to just 5,000, a gargantuan drop given that it now hovers above the 12,000 level and only sunk as deep as 6,547 during the lowest ebb of the economic collapse in March 2009.
On the back of this forecast, Nenner has advised his clients to vacate the market almost entirely.
“I told my clients and pension funds and big firms and hedge funds to almost go out of the market, almost totally out of the market,” said Nenner, saying that the collapse will unfold over the course of a couple of months and that the reversal will come when the Dow hits just above the 13000 level.... _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
That families control certain countries and certain societies is not in dispute. What is in dispute is that they control the world. The rise of China
now or of Russia before it is linked to which specific families?
Why not produce the list of names?
Ah, but would you be prepared to tolerate research from so-called 'dubious' sources? Have you ever studied the various mechanisms by which certain sources are rendered 'dubious', let alone entirely obliterated?
To answer your question, I find the most accessible (and yes, credible regardless of being poorly written) information is to be found in Fritz Springmeier's "13 Bloodlines" at:-
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bloodlines/index.htm - paying particular attention to the Onassis and Li bloodlines. His focus is largely on American families; the Merovingians get scant attention, unfortunately - but then, they've already been 'done to death' by European 'scholars' ;-/
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You then go on to talk about what cannot be named in the forum so I am confused what you mean as I am not necessarily the forum so you could PM what you are trying to say...
Apologies for the Voldemortean facetiousness but we are in Satanic territory here and I've no wish to further provoke Tony G or the cadre that decides what is kosher and what is not vis-a-vis Zionism on this forum. However, there are countless posts still extant, predominantly from subsequently banned contributors, discussing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The threads, in and of themselves, are a most revealing exercise in semiotics and the powers of persuasion, with large doses of Tavistock Institute tactics thrown in for 'fog of myth' purposes. IMO.
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You then try to say something about Trotsky then go on to Luxembourg? Again I fail to understand what you are saying? All you say about they are quick to discard their vassals which I presume you mean to bump them off when they are no longer in use.
I'll admit that my interest in Communism only extends to the disastrous effect it has had on communialism, anarcho-syndicalism and, above all, the human spirit; its origins and who encouraged & financed its originators; its migration to wherever the Committee of 300 (or whatever they call themselves now or before) feel they can best extend their steadfast aim of a One World Ordure under one Politburo - theirs. I know little of disposable figureheads like Lenin, Luxemberg, Trotsky, Stalin - their actions speak loudly enough, good and bad. See my sig line, as if you can avoid it ;-)
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That capitalism once globalised will lead to collapse (Luxembourgs) view and Lenins view that there is no final crisis for capitalism until someone buries it. They presumabely are both on the side of the banksters ... ... ...
Hmm, there's a fundamental fallacy arising here, IMO. 'On the side of'? No - you appear to be assuming that 'banksters' play by 'normal' human societal rules; they don't. They no longer possess the one trait that renders us human - soul. To be 'on the side of' of banksters merely means to be within the grasp and sway of their globe-spanning tentacles - pawns in the(ir) game, indeed.
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so its a shame this was lost on the Russian banksters themselves who lost everything in the Russian Revolution, the civil war after and Stalin in the 1930's.
Which 'Russian banksters' lost and which 'Russian' banksters won? That could be set as a dissertation - please, no more than 30,000 words ;-)
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But we are still left with the issues of today which are far more pressing than yesterday.
From our perpsective, indeed yes - old Louis T McFadden didn't rate the '20's much and trying to alert people to their coming extinction just got him poisoned to death...this thread started on the basis of parallel mechanisms -- those who don't learn from history etc etc...
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The video clip you show talks about control via the vehicle of debt, but this is the path of the destruction of all value via the mechanism of hyper-inflation.
Not so long as man puts his faith entirely in material value/resources. What is 'value'? An intangible.
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So you haven't answered my original point. Why go through the motions of an artifical boom or debt induced property bubble (2001-2007) in order to have a crash and rob everyone. Why not just rob em direct if you control them?
What? and have them turn on you en masse for being so blatant when by subtle means the same result can be achieved repeatedly, over centuries - at least until enough people get wise to the mechanisms - then it's time for another war to make people forget anything but trying to return their lives to some semblance of order, peace and 'normality'... Whoever controls material resources controls mankind. Decides who eats and who doesn't. QED bar Murphy's Law ;-)
So along came the Internet, brought to you by the same folks who unleashed Timothy Leary on the kids of those traumatised by War...
Resources are Riches: Money is Debt - which brings us right back to Max Warburg, Rudolf Havenstein and other prime suspects from yesteryear - so it goes...
and from your post to D_D where you ask:-
"Was this Rothschild as well? When one substitutes the struggle of nations, the rise and fall of Empires with the machinations of one man we enter the realms of superstition as we substitute reality with the machinations of the 'hidden hand'..."
Um, that's "hands", in the plural - ~300 of the beggars...they do indeed exist. Their actions are manifest, in every sense of the word...
Oh yes; 'viral diseases' - bin there, doing that, Georgia Guidestones, Heritage Foundation, Bayer/Bauer and all...
Thank you for posing the questions - it's the only way shared information can contribute to greater clarity and understanding, innit? Good luck with Fritz (at least he's not another Zagami... ;))
HTH
@ D_D Oops - Is Nenner another Clif High-type QED or is it Murphy at large again? :) _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
Ah, but would you be prepared to tolerate research from so-called 'dubious' sources? Have you ever studied the various mechanisms by which certain sources are rendered 'dubious', let alone entirely obliterated?
To answer your question, I find the most accessible (and yes, credible regardless of being poorly written) information is to be found in Fritz Springmeier's "13 Bloodlines" at:-
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bloodlines/index.htm - paying particular attention to the Onassis and Li bloodlines. His focus is largely on American families; the Merovingians get scant attention, unfortunately - but then, they've already been 'done to death' by European 'scholars' ;-/
I need time to read your sources so cannot respond immediately. But you seem to want to argue whether I will read something from what you describe as ...dubious. I have never had a problem with that, others might.
On the one source I have looked at and know something previously about, the bloodline of the Onassis family none is made availabe, with the proviso that he has ...hidden it well. So a ruler of the world lets his own son be killed and we are also informed that the rulers or 13 families also have serious rivarly-does that include and go up to the point of death?
I still see no Russian families there so what happened aren't they 'able' enough?
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I'll admit that my interest in Communism only extends to the disastrous effect it has had on communialism, anarcho-syndicalism and, above all, the human spirit; its origins and who encouraged & financed its originators; its migration to wherever the Committee of 300 (or whatever they call themselves now or before) feel they can best extend their steadfast aim of a One World Ordure under one Politburo - theirs. I know little of disposable figureheads like Lenin, Luxemberg, Trotsky, Stalin - their actions speak loudly enough, good and bad. See my sig line, as if you can avoid it
You quoted the previous book Pawns. You seem to be arguing that the tendency is of universal integration into One World Order - currency, language, rule - but attribute it to the 13 families. So it doesn't have economic roots, the growth from the local, to the national, to the multinational, to the transnational but the desire of the 13 families (but with the proviso that they might wipe themselves out in the process) to impose their order. My original point was if they allready rule the world in the form you state, why impose anything as nothing can be questioned,you already dominate. Why would Onassis for instance have to Argentina?
Why were they booted out of Smyrna? They already rule via their bloodline or was the collapse of the Ottoman Empire engineered by them and presumabely its rise if you trace their bloodline far enough backwards (for which no information is provided as they have concealed it). Why even have an Empire in the first place why even see it fall?
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Hmm, there's a fundamental fallacy arising here, IMO. 'On the side of'? No - you appear to be assuming that 'banksters' play by 'normal' human societal rules; they don't. They no longer possess the one trait that renders us human - soul. To be 'on the side of' of banksters merely means to be within the grasp and sway of their globe-spanning tentacles - pawns in the(ir) game, indeed.
If everyone is a pawn whether intended or not, through their actions or words, then nothing can ever change, that is essentially is your message which is circulated by the BBC and its offspring since its creation. So how did Russia become a superpower? Or didn't it? So how come Russia can take out the USA in 6 min flat, yet there is not one of the 13 families there? Or there is but we cant trace the ...bloodline.
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Which 'Russian banksters' lost and which 'Russian' banksters won? That could be set as a dissertation - please, no more than 30,000 words
You can turn it into a joke, but the question still remains. You produce a source for 13 families and none are from Russia, the country that dominated all western media for most of the last century. No wonder a British ex-bankster came along recently to fill this gap... by writing a book on Stalin claiming he was working for Rothschild...
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So you haven't answered my original point. Why go through the motions of an artifical boom or debt induced property bubble (2001-2007) in order to have a crash and rob everyone. Why not just rob em direct if you control them?
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What? and have them turn on you en masse for being so blatant when by subtle means the same result can be achieved repeatedly, over centuries - at least until enough people get wise to the mechanisms - then it's time for another war to make people forget anything but trying to return their lives to some semblance of order, peace and 'normality'... Whoever controls material resources controls mankind. Decides who eats and who doesn't. QED bar Murphy's Law
By what you have written you seem to be arguing now that the 13 families dont have absolute control, but they have to take into account how to approach the masses either in a subtle indirect form of conflict (enrich yourselves then we bankrupt you-echoes of Stalins policies in the 1920's to the peasants) or we will take you out directly (echoes of Hitlers policies in the 1930's). Therefore there is an issue of class and conflict, nations and resistance etc. not simply the 13 families...and absolute control by your admission does not exist.
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So along came the Internet, brought to you by the same folks who unleashed Timothy Leary on the kids of those traumatised by War...
Along came the Guttenburg presses in another era which eventually led to the collapse of the feudal order and the collapse of the domination of religion in all walks of life, in particular the Spanish inquisition. Was that another scam engineered by one of the 13 families? You raise the general educational level of society over a period of hundreds of years, in order then to crush them ideologically, spiritually and mentally by the internet? Why bother inventing it in the first place? Wasn't it far better when people couldn't read, dumbness is easier to control than those with knowledge. Anyone knows that, but you seem to be saying the opposite. Why not state instead that technological advances create new problems of control and they then have to be manipulated to weaken their enlightening effects ie cause, effect, reaction, control.
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Resources are Riches: Money is Debt - which brings us right back to Max Warburg, Rudolf Havenstein and other prime suspects from yesteryear - so it goes...
If everything was a wheel and everything is the same, nothing ever changes, so economic crashes are engineered to bring about war in order then to have another boom so as to have another crash and on and on like that. So if boom leads to collapse and collapse to boom, is war an aberration to this process or the necessary vehicle with which we go from one phase to another? Presumabely therefore if we produce enough bicycles for everyone with wheels on them most of our problems can be solved?
This line of though exists and is quite old. Its the cyclical theory of history (it only becomes interesting because you have added the 13 families which I am reading...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclical_theory
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Um, that's "hands", in the plural - ~300 of the beggars...they do indeed exist. Their actions are manifest, in every sense of the word...
Oh yes; 'viral diseases' - bin there, doing that, Georgia Guidestones, Heritage Foundation, Bayer/Bauer and all...
Thank you for posing the questions - it's the only way shared information can contribute to greater clarity and understanding, innit? Good luck with Fritz (at least he's not another Zagami... )
HTH
@ D_D Oops - Is Nenner another Clif High-type QED or is it Murphy at large again?
I am not in dispute of the existence of powerful families, the issue at stake is whether they have absolutist control, have had that control since time immemorial or whether this is a theory to justify inactivity...
If everything was a wheel and everything is the same, nothing ever changes, so economic crashes are engineered to bring about war in order then to have another boom so as to have another crash and on and on like that.
Yes. Buddhists call it Samsara. It's up to all of us to recognize the illusion and break out of it, IMO. Hence threads like this.
Quote:
You can turn it into a joke, but the question still remains. You produce a source for 13 families and none are from Russia, the country that dominated all western media for most of the last century.
The best way to deal with psychopaths is to laugh at them, render their schemes derisible, etc. As for Russia - it never produced its own psychotic leaders - the power was always from 'elsewhere' and strictly behind the scenes - hence dig into Onassis & Rothschild... Fritz S is just an 'easy' start point - next stop, the best university library you can access... my own recommendations would be Durham & Madrid rather than Oxford or Vatican City...
And of course, if these 13 families had always had total control, total discipline and cosy relationships, the rest of us would still be building pyramids for them - but along came Joseph and screwed up the Ur contingent... ;-)
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Wasn't it far better when people couldn't read, dumbness is easier to control than those with knowledge. Anyone knows that, but you seem to be saying the opposite. Why not state instead that technological advances create new problems of control and they then have to be manipulated to weaken their enlightening effects ie cause, effect, reaction, control.
Yes, I agree entirely with your second point but your first, no. Watch history's 'dumb' when they are aroused and very very hungry - not manageable except by war, whereas a modicum of comfort & 'dignity' enables far more people at least a semblance of being in control of their own lives. It also produces more material wealth by channeling their energies into production.
Bottom line - the controllers still have human aspects and failings, which is why they can be defeated. The closer they come to total control (HAARP, maybe ;) the closer they come to total destruction - that's the problem with those who choose to lead from the shadows - no bottom, as they used to say in the navy... no guts, no soul, just fantasies they can afford to pay others to enact for them...
Remember that seminal interview with Aaron Russo where Nick Rockefeller asks him why he cares about others? That's the crux of our world's woes, IMO.
Quote:
I am not in dispute of the existence of powerful families, the issue at stake is whether they have absolutist control, have had that control since time immemorial or whether this is a theory to justify inactivity...
It can be clearly demonstrated that 'They' have always desired absolute control - look around you - who's calling the tune? But as I said above, Murphy has no truck with evil human aspirations. IMO, "this is a theory to justify" pursuing these psychopaths off the planet before they destroy us all, along with all the beauty upon Earth. To enable this to come to pass, far far more people need to fully understand what they are truly up against. Otherwise Samsara continues - until 'next time' we collectively wake up...if there's to be a 'next time'... _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
For those disappointed that we may have drifted off topic, here's an accessible summary of the part played by Rudolf Havenstein in Weimar Germany's ~17,000,000% inflation:-
Is Ben Bernanke The Second Coming Of Rudolf von Havenstein, The Central Banker Responsible For Germany's Hyperinflationary Collapse (And Ostensibly WWII)?
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 02/26/2010 14:18 -0500
SocGen's Dylan Grice provides a gripping account of Germany's hyperinflationary episode, in which he charts the extended parallels between not just the precursor economy that lead to a 16,579,999% inflation in 1923 Weimar Germany, and modern day developed (and highly leveraged) countries, but between Germany's then central banker Rudolf von Havenstein, and the Greenspan-Bernanke duo. And while we know how "der Geld Marschall's" Weimar experiment ended, the future before the U.S., as a result of the Maestro's (both Senior and Junior) almost identical policy response is still open-ended. As the future of America is now exclusively in the hands of insidious economists, the following insight from Grice into the utility of economic models and decision-making should be sufficient to dash the hopes of any optimist for a favorable outcome.
"Is anything more dangerous than a nonsensical idea taken seriously? The esteem of economists has been dented by the financial crisis, though not so severely that the financial community treat economists? views with anything approaching the derision they deserve. The macroeconomic meme is resilient indeed! Sadly, the situation isn?t new. Macroeconomic theory has a long and distinguished history of seducing policymakers into thinking utopia is just around the corner, a trick brought about by untested hypotheses masquerading as empirical knowledge. Believe it or not, a school of economic thought that was prominent in Weimar Germany during the hyperinflation ? and particularly at the Reichsbank as it was aggressively monetising the government deficit ? held that the escalating money supply had nothing to do with the exploding rate of inflation! More on that later. For now, in this new world of policymaking experimentation, it?s worth recalling the British Ambassador to Germany?s observation on the hyperinflation that ?'no one could anticipate such an ingenious revelation of extreme folly to which ignorance and false theory could lead.'"
Hopefully, once the true span of the Great Depression v2 is grasped, once all extend and pretend measures are exhausted, modern society will do away with economists once and for all.
For those unfamiliar with the greatest failed experiment in developed world monetary policy, here is a brief primer.
For all the ink spilled analysing two of the 20th century’s greatest economic tragedies - the Great Depression and Japan’s lost decade(s) - little has been spent on arguably the greatest of them all: Germany’s hyperinflation. It may be because we’re confident we understand it. Everyone knows that unfettered money printing eventually leads to explosive inflation, don’t they? The thing is, economists knew that then! So what was going through the mind of the central bank head who presided over history’s most pathological currency debasement?
It is often said that the Great Depression so thoroughly destroyed the social fabric of the industrialised world in the 1930s that WW2 became inevitable. But this overlooks the role of Germany'?s hyperinflation, the horror of which seems underappreciated in the Anglo-Saxon world. At the height of the crisis in 1923, for example, industrial production fell by the staggering annual rate of 37%. In roughly the same single year, the unionised unemployment rate rose from under 1% in late 1922 to nearly 30%! (and according to Frank Graham, almost half of the total workforce became unemployed at this time). This, remember, is at a time when the rest of the world economy was booming.
As far as economic pain goes, this probably surpasses the Great Depression yet to come. But it only tells a part of the story: the nation?s wealth, held largely in German government bonds was completely wiped out. We can only imagine the nationwide psychological devastation of a proud Germany already feeling victimised and humiliated in the aftermath of WW1. In his ?'Ascent of Money’, Niall Ferguson quotes Elias Canetti?s recounting of his hyperinflation experience as a young man in Frankfurt, “It is a witches’ sabbath of devaluation, where men and the units of their money have the strongest effects on each other. The one stands for the other, men feeling themselves as ‘bad’ as their money; and this becomes worse and worse. Together they are all at its mercy and all feel equally worthless”. Such was the condition of Germany before the Great Depression had even begun.
Indeed, it is a tantalising counterfactual: would Germany have fallen under the Nazi spell which would ultimately lead the world to a second World War had she not borne the grave burdens of the Great Depression already exhausted, despairing and with ruptured social cohesion? We?ll never know, of course, and anyway such events are never so simplistically mono-causal. Nevertheless, it is possible that German hyperinflation played a decisive role in the build-up to WW2 and therefore logical to conjecture that the central banker who presided over that hyperinflation is the most influential figure in history you?'ve never heard of.
Next - presenting Ben Bernanke ideological father: Rudolf von Havenstein, after whom came the flood.
That central banker was a certain Rudolf von Havenstein. Born in 1857 into an aristocratic Prussian family, he trained as a lawyer and rose to become a county court judge before joining the Prussian Finance Ministry in 1890 and being appointed president of the Reichsbank in 1908. Steeped in the Wilhelmine tradition of devotion to his Kaiser and a passionate believer in the virtue of public duty, he seems to have been liked by all ? a true gentleman of the old school. Montagu Norman - then governor of the BoE - found him to be a “quiet, modest, convincing, and a very attractive man.?" [For more on the treasonous actions undertaken by Norman as head of the BOE in the 1930's click here]
Just how could such a decent, hard-working, intelligent and well-intentioned pubic servant have given birth to the uncontrollable monster of hyperinflation? How could such a paragon of public integrity preside over the largest currency debasement in financial history, quite possibly sowing the seeds for the most destructive war in the history of civilization?
He first seems to have developed the habit of monetizing government debt during WW1. With a complacency arguably similar to today?s policymakers in justifying their variously creative schemes for monetary and fiscal experimentation, the monetary expansion was justified as merely a stop-gap measure. The war was expected to be short and in any case the losers would be made to foot the bill. No one really anticipated the long and protracted conflict which occurred, or the financial burden it would impose. So by the end of the War - only 10% of which was financed by taxes - the money supply had ballooned and prices had quadrupled. Nevertheless, Von Havenstein was lauded as a public hero, decorated with honours and even nicknamed "der Geld Marschall", which sounds a bit like the ?the Maestro? but in fact translates as the ?Money General?.
Once embarked upon this path though, it became difficult to stop, especially since the early stages of inflation didn?t seem too bad. Although inflation rose by 60% in 1921, real industrial production rose by 26% and unemployment stood at only 1% of the unionized workforce. The following chart shows that at one point during this period, real share prices rose by over 100%. But then the inflation intensified. In 1922 it reached 5,300% and on the eve of currency reform in late 1923, the annual rate was 16,579,999%. How did this happen?
To call the political climate of the time merely difficult would be a gross understatement. The country was on the brink of civil war: on the far right was the vast and humiliated ex-military which, having been forcibly demobilized by the victorious Allies, had become a seething and vengeful nationalist militia; on the far left were the anti-war workers and communists, the latter inspired by the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution and aiming to achieve the same end in Germany. Meanwhile, with revolution in the air and violent street battles between these polar political opposites playing out nightly, deep-felt resentment towards the foreign powers was fermented by the issue of war time reparations, whereby Germany was required to hand over 4-7% of GDP each year until full compensation for the war-time devastation had been paid.
It?s worth noting that there has been much debate over the extent to which reparations were in fact a primary cause of the hyperinflation. Some have argued that the 4-7% budgetary burden was bearable and that the hyperinflation was actually a bluff gone wrong. The German authorities were actually trying to demonstrate just how desperate their situation was as a way to lower their reparation payments. I?m no expert, but I?m not completely convinced by this argument. In passing, it?s worth noting that we?re about to see how politically feasible such a budgetary burden is since the 4-7% of GDP range is roughly what Cecchetti et al at the BIS calculate is required to stabilise debt levels at 2007 levels (see chart below).
I personally think the 4-7% reparations was the last straw for the German authorities facing capital flight in response to the tax measures they?d introduced to shore up the government?s budget position (as we?re seeing in Greece today), with the monetization habit now very firmly entrenched and fearful of what might happen should painful deflationist policies be pursued. As Liaquat Ahamed writes in his masterful book on the Great Depression “Were he to refuse to print the money necessary to finance the deficit, he risked causing a sharp rise in interest rates as the government scrambled to borrow from every source. The mass unemployment that would ensue, he believed, would bring on a domestic economic and political crisis, which in Germany’s [then] fragile state might precipitate a real political convulsion.” Facing a dilemma orders of magnitude higher but nevertheless familiar to observers of today?s situation, faced with the terrifying prospect of even more economic pain should he slam on the brakes, he opted to press his foot further on the accelerator.
Another lesson: blaming speculators for economists' endless blunders and flawed outlook on everything, is nothing new. Somehow, CDS traders did not exist the last time countries were going bankrupt: but how is that possible?
Less well known though is that, as always, economic theory was on hand to furnish Von Havenstein with a ?scientific? justification for his playing for time. The consensus in Germany was actually that the cause of inflation was external because both the Reichsmark and import prices had moved disproportionately more than the rise in the money supply. Since the external value was caused by the balance of payments, which was largely caused by the reparations, it was foreigners and not budget deficits which caused the inflation. Indeed, Von Havenstein was so enamoured with this theory that he blocked attempts at monetary reform arguing that any measures would be pointless without settlement of the reparations issue. According to Ludvig von Mises, “Herr Havenstein honestly believed that the continued issue of new notes had nothing to do with the rise of commodity prices, wages and foreign exchanges. This rise he attributed to the machinations of speculators …” Speculators always get the blame don?t they?
But 1922 is so long ago. There is no way out "advanced" economy can in any way compare, is there? Read on:
I don?t want to overplay the parallels. In fact, there is one very clear difference between the hand Von Havenstein had to play then and those today?s central bankers have to play now, namely the stability of today?s political climate. Clearly this can change, but the class warfare, nationalistic xenophobia and revolutionary spirit poisoning the political atmosphere of 1920s Germany is at the very least dormant today, and certainly not meaningfully visible across the political landscape. But let’s not ignore the parallels either: as is the case for today’s central bankers, Von Havenstein was faced with horrible fiscal problems; as is the case for today’s central bankers, the distinction between fiscal and monetary policy had blurred; as is the case for today’s central bankers, the political difficulty of deflating was daunting; and as is the case for today’s QE-enthralled central bankers, apparently respectable economic theory reassured him that he was doing the right thing.
Let's not forget that without much fanfare, the Greeks and Germans are doing all they can to bring xenophobia back to the core.
One might think that the big difference is that today we have a greater expertise. Surely we understand what happens when deficits are financed with printed money, and that it is only backward and corrupt states that don?t know any better, like Bolivia and Zimbabwe? But just a few years ago didn?t we think that it was only backward and corrupt states that suffered banking crises too?
And anyway, how could Von Havenstein not have known that the continued and escalating printing of money to fund government deficits would cause inflation? The United States experience of unrestrained money printing during the Civil War had been well documented, as had the hyperinflation of revolutionary France in the late 18th century. Isn?t it possible that, like today, he was overconfident in his ability to control his creation and in the economic theory which told him such control was possible? Certainly, in an article in the New York Times on the eve of the First World War, again from Liaquat Ahamed?s book, there seems to have been evidence of the general optimism that there would be no "?unlimited issue of paper money and its steady depreciation … since monetary science is better understood at the present time than in those days.?"
The fact is we do understand the economics of inflation. Despite what economists everywhere say about being in ?uncharted territory? with QE, we know that if you keep monetizing deficits eventually you get inflation, and we know that once you'?re on that path it can be extremely difficult to get off it. But we knew that then. The real problem is that inflation is an inherently political variable and that concern over debt sustainability and unfunded welfare obligations leaves us more dependent on politicians than we have been in many decades. Frank Graham concluded his 1930 study of the Weimar hyperinflation with the following observation, which I think is as ominous as it is apt today:
"?The mills of international finance grind slowly but their capacity is great. It is also flexible. The one condition is that the hoppers be not unduly loaded in the effort to get the whole grist from a single grinding. So much for the economics of the question. What politics has in store is, however, an inscrutable mystery. It can only be said that such financial difficulties as may occur will almost certainly arise from political rather than from economic sources.?"
How many more parallels do we need: escalating geopolitical tensions across the world, an Eastern European powder keg, Quantitave Easing masking as just economic doctrine, and, on top of it all, a deranged money printer. Just as von Havenstein set the foundations for the most destructive war in world history, is his modern reincarnation currently doing the same, as yet another, much more destructive military conflict possibly approaches?
From another document entirely:-
Quote:
2. We shall surround our government with a whole world of economists. That is the reason why economic sciences form the principal subject of the teaching given to the J**s. Around us again will be a whole constellation of bankers, industrialists, capitalists and - THE MAIN THING - MILLIONAIRES, BECAUSE IN SUBSTANCE EVERYTHING WILL BE SETTLED BY THE QUESTION OF FIGURES.
3. For a time, until there will no longer be any risk in entrusting responsible posts in our State to our brother-bleeps, we shall put them in the hands of persons whose past and reputation are such that between them and the people lies an abyss, persons who, in case of disobedience to our instructions, must face criminal charges or disappear - this in order to make them defend our interests to their last gasp.
My italics; the capitals are in the copy.
And talking of last gasps (with no conspiracy implied, as Havenstein was 66 at the time of his death in 1923) :-
Quote:
... ... ...Indirectly, it goes back to the Reichsbank, the hapless organisation that presided over the hyperinflation of the early Twenties. The president, Rudolf Havenstein, died of a heart attack brought on by the stress this caused. His successor, Hjalmar Schacht, became the servant of the Nazis in the Thirties: many of the senior staff of the Bank deutscher Lander and the regional central banks worked at the Reichsbank before the war. ... ... ...
More than one country has had hyper-inflation and like I said before your theory veers from one wide angle to another whereby the bloodlines of the 13 families both have control and at the same time dont.
Who gets a dose of hyperinflation, war or revolution is based as much on historical circumstance as anything else. Most of the 13 families are based in the USA. The USA has only been in existence for 3 centuries and as such doesn't have that much weight in the world order of things as its light has ebbed. They cant even beat iraquis and afghanis despire having the best debt financing on earth and the best weapons.
Benjamin Fulford speaks about the secret families and the secret cabals but you seem to be dismissive of him yet he wrote about an earthquake weapon to hit Japan more than a year ago and he has also interviewed Rockefeller.
More than one country has had hyper-inflation and like I said before your theory veers from one wide angle to another whereby the bloodlines of the 13 families both have control and at the same time dont.
Have you ever known just two families to get on with each other over the course of just three generations? ;-)
Quote:
Who gets a dose of hyperinflation, war or revolution is based as much on historical circumstance as anything else. Most of the 13 families are based in the USA.
But those families have European and Asian roots, nicht wahr?
Quote:
The USA has only been in existence for 3 centuries and as such doesn't have that much weight in the world order of things as its light has ebbed. They cant even beat iraquis and afghanis despite having the best debt financing on earth and the best weapons.
And israel has only been in existence ~60 years - so what? Go back to that 'International' clip - perhaps you cannot cope with their depths of cynicism and depravity, let alone so-called Satanism? (As an aside, even Kubrick, with supposed carte blanche, fell hopelessly short with his "Eyes Wide Shut" exposé). Besides, failing some super-weapon/super-bug, topography always seems to win the day - Afghanistan is not called the graveyard of empires for nothing...
Quote:
Benjamin Fulford speaks about the secret families and the secret cabals but you seem to be dismissive of him yet he wrote about an earthquake weapon to hit Japan more than a year ago and he has also interviewed Rockefeller.
No, I am not 'dismissive of him', just exceedingly wary as he is truly an insider - eg: nobody ever gets to interview King David, let alone get him to travel to Canada for the purpose...
The 'earthquake weapon' threat was directed at, and allegedly carried out against, China, AFAIK. Please correct me with a specific link if I've got that wrong.
Smoke and Mirrors - it's the pits, innit? :( _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
No, I am not 'dismissive of him', just exceedingly wary as he is truly an insider - eg: nobody ever gets to interview King David, let alone get him to travel to Canada for the purpose...
The 'earthquake weapon' threat was directed at, and allegedly carried out against, China, AFAIK. Please correct me with a specific link if I've got that wrong.
Smoke and Mirrors - it's the pits, innit?
Video) Benjamin Fulford Claims Japan Threatened By Earthquake Weapon…
Published February 25, 2010 Conspiracy? , Global Government , Planet , Tinfoil Territory 2 Comments
Tags: banksters, earthquakes, environmental weapons, geophysical warfare, HAARP, japan, seismic weapon, tectonic weapon, weather warfare
Japan-based journalist Benjamin Fulford claims that in 2007 a group representing “American and European oligarchs” used the threat of manmade earthquakes in an attempt to pressure the Japanese government to “hand over control of the Japanese financial system.” Japan (intially) refused, and Fulford claims the 17-July ’07 Niigata earthquakes were the result.
The above was published over a year ago. You accept half his pronouncements then regarding the strength of the bloodlines of families, and not the other half, the use of weapons to implement their rule. I am the opposite....
Thanks for that link - I must have been off-planet at the time ;-)
However, please don't put words in my mouth as wary is not the same as sceptical ;-)
Quote:
Fulford claims the 17-July ’07 Niigata earthquakes were the result.
Fine, but who else? Where's the corroboration? Where is the data to tie in with HAARP * ? Why is no-one else touching this aspect; not even Hoagland?
To make myself clear (I hope!), in theory I find it more than likely that psychopaths would adopt any technology going yet, in parallel there would be those in positions to do so exposing and making huge efforts to close said technology down - this is not happening. Why?
"- having regard to the hearing on HAARP and Non-lethal Weapons held by the Foreign Affairs Subcommitee on Security and Disarmament in Brussels on 5 February 1998,"
and
"T. whereas, despite the existing conventions, military research is ongoing on environmental manipulation as a weapon, as demonstrated for example by the Alaska-based HAARP system,"
and
"Legal aspects of military activities
26. Calls on the European Union to seek to have the new 'non-lethal' weapons technology and the development of new arms strategies also covered and regulated by international conventions;
27. Considers HAARP (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Project) by virtue of its farreaching impact on the environment to be a global concern and calls for its legal, ecological and ethical implications to be examined by an international independent body before any further research and testing; regrets the repeated refusal of the United States Administration to send anyone in person to give evidence to the public hearing or any subsequent meeting held by its competent committee into the environmental and public risks connected with the high Frequency Active Auroral Research Project (HAARP) programme currently being funded in Alaska;
28. Requests the Scientific and Technological Options Assessment (STOA) Panel to agree to examine the scientific and technical evidence provided in all existing research findings on HAARP to assess the exact nature and degree of risk that HAARP poses both to the local and global environment and to public health generally;
29. Calls on the Commission, in collaboration with the governments of Sweden, Finland, Norway and the Russian Federation, to examine the environmental and public health implications of the HAARP programme for Arctic Europe and to report back to Parliament with its findings;"
and
"HAARP - a weapons system which disrupts the climate
On 5 February 1998 Parliament's Subcommittee on Security and Disarmament held a hearing the subject of which included HAARP. NATO and the US had been invited to send representatives, but chose not to do so. The Committee regrets the failure of the USA to send a representative to answer questions, or to use the opportunity to comment on the material submitted.(21)
HAARP (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Project) is run jointly by the US Air Force and Navy, in conjunction with the Geophysical Institute of the University of Alaska, Fairbanks. Similar experiments are also being conducted in Norway, probably in the Antarctic, as well as in the former Soviet Union.(22) HAARP is a research project using a ground based apparatus, an array of antennae each powered by its own transmitter, to heat up portions of ionosphere with powerful radio beams.(23) The energy generated heats up parts of the ionosphere; this results in holes in the ionosphere and produces artificial 'lenses'.
HAARP can be used for many purposes. Enormous quantities of energy can be controlled by manipulating the electrical characteristics of the atmosphere. If used as a military weapon this can have a devastating impact on an enemy. HAARP can deliver millions of times more energy to a given area than any other conventional transmitter. The energy can also be aimed at a moving target which should constitute a potential anti-missile system.
The project would also allow better communications with submarines and manipulation of global weather patterns, but it is also possible to do the reverse, to disrupt communications. By manipulating the ionosphere one could block global communications while transmitting one's own. Another application is earth-penetrating, tomography, x-raying the earth several kilometres deep, to detect oil and gas fields, or underground military facilities. Over-the-horizon radar is another application, looking round the curvature of the earth for in-coming objects.
From the 1950s the USA conducted explosions of nuclear material in the Van Allen Belts(24) to investigate the effect of the electro-magnetic pulse generated by nuclear weapon explosions at these heights on radio communications and the operation of radar. This created new magnetic radiation belts which covered nearly the whole earth. The electrons travelled along magnetic lines of force and created an artificial Aurora Borealis above the North Pole. These military tests are liable to disrupt the Van Allen belt for a long period. The earth's magnetic field could be disrupted over large areas, which would obstruct radio communications. According to US scientists it could take hundreds of years for the Van Allen belt to return to normal. HAARP could result in changes in weather patterns. It could also influence whole ecosystems, especially in the sensitive Antarctic regions.
Another damaging consequence of HAARP is the occurrence of holes in the ionosphere caused by the powerful radio beams. The ionosphere protects us from incoming cosmic radiation. The hope is that the holes will fill again, but our experience of change in the ozone layer points in the other direction. This means substantial holes in the ionosphere that protects us.
With its far-reaching impact on the environment HAARP is a matter of global concern and we have to ask whether its advantages really outweigh the risks. The environmental impact and the ethical aspect must be closely examined before any further research and testing takes place. HAARP is a project of which the public is almost completely unaware, and this needs to be remedied.
HAARP has links with 50 years of intensive space research for military purposes, including the Star Wars project, to control the upper atmosphere and communications. This kind of research has to be regarded as a serious threat to the environment, with an incalculable impact on human life. Even now nobody knows what impact HAARP may have. We have to beat down the wall of secrecy around military research, and set up the right to openness and democratic scrutiny of military research projects, and parliamentary control.
A series of international treaties and conventions (the Convention on the prohibition of military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques, the Antarctic Treaty, the Treaty on principles governing the activities of states in the exploration and use of outer space including the moon and other celestial bodies, and the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea) casts considerable doubt on HAARP on legal as well as humanitarian and political grounds. The Antarctic Treaty lays down that the Antarctic may be used exclusively for peaceful purposes.(25) This would mean that HAARP is a breach of international law. All the implications of the new weapons systems should be examined by independent international bodies. Further international agreements should be sought to protect the environment from unnecessary destruction in war."
That was 13 years ago... _________________ "We will lead every revolution against us!" - attrib: Theodor Herzl
"Timely Demise to All Oppressors - at their Convenience!" - 'Interesting Times', Terry Pratchett
Thanks for that link - I must have been off-planet at the time
However, please don't put words in my mouth as wary is not the same as sceptical
Quote:
Fulford claims the 17-July ’07 Niigata earthquakes were the result.
Fine, but who else? Where's the corroboration? Where is the data to tie in with HAARP * ? Why is no-one else touching this aspect; not even Hoagland?
To make myself clear (I hope!), in theory I find it more than likely that psychopaths would adopt any technology going yet, in parallel there would be those in positions to do so exposing and making huge efforts to close said technology down - this is not happening. Why?
"- having regard to the hearing on HAARP and Non-lethal Weapons held by the Foreign Affairs Subcommitee on Security and Disarmament in Brussels on 5 February 1998,...
Havent come across the one above. Thanks for that!
The differences we have are therefore linked to whether the 13 families
control events from the outset and create them and can take them in any direction they want or whether they dont?
Will the break up of the Euro, with the strong possibility of default in Greece occurring soon, be a pre-planned event or does it logically flow from the economic measures taken by the government? Ie the massive austerity drive, the massive increases in unemployment or is it due to the economic measures one takes which produce a reaction?
In the whole process millions are involved who can also change the course of history, otherwise what we say is, that the over 50 countries that have suffered hyperinflation in their history it was always pre-planned...
13:21 on this one an extra quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gELw6Hfh95c _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
Israeli ex-president sentenced for rape
Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:54PM
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/171203.html
Former Israeli President Moshe Katsav
Former Israeli President Moshe Katsav has been sentenced to seven years in jail after being convicted on two counts of rape and other offences.
The 65-year-old was convicted, at an earlier hearing, of raping an employee in the 1990's when he was tourism minister, and later during his presidency.
The court ruling also includes a two-year suspended sentence and a compensation of $28,000 to the main victim, state-run BBC reported.
Judge George Karra told him, "We believe the plaintiff [Woman A] because her testimony is supported by elements of evidence and she told the truth."
Kastav had first agreed with prosecutors to plead guilty to sexual misconduct, avoiding more charges that are serious. But later he denied the rape allegations.
During his sentence hearing, Kastav broke down in tears and shouted at the judges, "You made a mistake. It is a lie. The girls know it is a lie."
Court documents showed that Kastav committed the rape in April 1998, and sexually harassed two women in 2003 and 2005 during his presidency.
He had to resign in June 2007 after the sex scandal went public. _________________ 'Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
Help, help, I'm being repressed!'
“The more you tighten your grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your fingers.”
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