Shoestring Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 325
|
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: Fourth 9/11 Pilot Revealed to be Last-Minute Replacement |
|
|
Below is my new blog entry, which describes a pilot's recent revelation that he was the original co-pilot of Flight 11 on September 11, having put his name down for the flight on the afternoon before then. But less than half an hour after he put his name down for the flight, he was replaced by Thomas McGuinness, who went on to become a victim of the 9/11 attacks. This means that at least half of the original pilots and co-pilots of the planes involved in the attacks were only assigned to those flights at the last minute, just before 9/11.
My original blog posting, with links to sources, is here:
http://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2012/02/new-evidence-reveals-half-of -pilots.html
New Evidence Reveals Half of Pilots Were Only Assigned to 9/11 Flights at the Last Minute
Thomas McGuinness, the co-pilot of American Airlines Flight 11 before it became the first plane to be hijacked in the 9/11 attacks, only assigned himself to be on the flight the afternoon before September 11, 2001, and pushed from it the original co-pilot, who had put his name down for the flight less than half an hour earlier. This new information means that, curiously, half of the pilots and co-pilots originally at the controls of the four aircraft involved in the attacks are now known to have been assigned to the doomed flights at the last minute, very shortly before September 11. Additionally, more than half of the flight attendants and many of the passengers are known to have, similarly, not originally been booked onto those flights.
The details of McGuinness's late assignment to Flight 11 were revealed recently by Steve Scheibner, who was originally going to be the plane's co-pilot. In a short film released on the Internet just before the 10th anniversary of 9/11, Scheibner described how McGuinness came to replace him on Flight 11 and thereby saved his life.
FLIGHT 11 HAD 'NO PILOT ASSIGNED TO IT YET'
At the time of the 9/11 attacks, Scheibner was a fundamentalist Baptist pastor and a commander in the Naval Reserves, but he also worked part-time as an on-call pilot for American Airlines. [1] He had been available to fly on September 11. "So at about three o'clock in the afternoon of September 10," Scheibner recalled, "I sat down at the computer and I logged in like I normally do, to check to see if there was any unassigned flying for the next day. And sure enough there was one trip that was available on September 11. It was American Airlines Flight 11 out of Boston's Logan Airport to Los Angeles." Scheibner looked at the flight and could see that "there was no pilot assigned to it yet."
Scheibner checked if there were any reserve pilots available to take the flight. But, he said, "It just so happened [that] on September 11, 2001, there was only one guy available to go flying on that day and that was me." He therefore put his name down for Flight 11. He told his wife he would be flying the following day and packed his bags ready for the trip.
Once a particular pilot signed up for a flight, as Scheibner had done, there would follow a "30-minute window of opportunity" during which, if another pilot wanted to take their place, it would be possible for that pilot to push them from the flight. But at the end of that 30-minute period, Scheibner said, the "final assignment" of the pilot to the flight would be made when someone from American Airlines called them and said, "Hey, we wanna let you know you've been assigned a trip." "Once you have that phone conversation," Scheibner said, "even if a line pilot wants to, they can't bump you off that trip." However, on September 10, Scheibner recalled, "I waited for the phone call and the phone never rang." Later on, during the evening, Scheibner had concluded, "You know, they never assigned that trip to me."
ORIGINAL CO-PILOT PUSHED FROM FLIGHT 11
What happened, according to Scheibner, was that in the minutes after he signed up for Flight 11, Thomas McGuinness pushed him from the flight. McGuinness was one of American Airlines' "line holding pilots" who was a "little bit senior" to Scheibner. Scheibner said that, unknown to him, at "about three o'clock in the afternoon" of September 10, McGuinness "went over to the computer and he logged in, and he looked and he saw that [Flight 11] was open, but my name had been penciled in." Since McGuinness was "still in that 30-minute window of opportunity," he called American Airlines and asked: "Am I legal to take this trip? In other words, can I bump Scheibner off that trip?" American Airlines replied, "Yep, you're legal for that trip, but you gotta give us a call back in the next 20 minutes, or else we're gonna finalize the assignment."
Having decided to take the flight, McGuinness called the airline again and said, "Yeah, I'll take that trip." At that moment, Scheibner said, American Airlines "erased my name off the trip [and] they assigned it to Tom [McGuinness]." As a result, McGuinness was the co-pilot of Flight 11 when it took off from Boston the following morning and became a victim of the 9/11 attacks, while Scheibner's life was spared. [2]
For one pilot to take another's place, as McGuinness did, is a rare event. Scheibner recently noted, "I can count three times in 20 years at American Airlines that I've been bumped from a trip the night before." [3]
On September 11, although Scheibner knew about the terrorist attacks, it did not initially click that one of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center had been the flight he'd signed up for the day before. He only realized this fact that evening. He had been thinking, "I wonder who was on that flight?" and so went on his computer and logged in with American Airlines. He recalled: "I logged in and when the screen came up in front of me, it looked exactly like it did the day before when it had that trip and it had my name penciled in. Except this time it had this trip sequence, my name wasn't there, and it said these three words: 'Sequence. Failed. Continuity.'" These words are the code the airline uses to say, "The trip never made it to its destination." [4]
THREE OTHER 9/11 PILOTS REPLACED ORIGINAL PILOTS AT LAST MINUTE
While Scheibner's account is remarkable, it is not unique. Several other pilots are known to have similarly narrowly avoided becoming victims of the 9/11 attacks. As well as Thomas McGuinness, at least three more of the eight pilots initially at the controls of the four aircraft involved in the attacks were only assigned to those flights very shortly before September 11.
John Ogonowski, the pilot of Flight 11, was not originally supposed to be on that flight. The original pilot had been Walter Sorenson. But Sorenson was replaced by Ogonowski, who, according to the Georgetown Record, had seniority over him "and requested to fly that day." Sorenson's life was therefore spared by the "last-minute change of pilots." [5]
Either the pilot or the co-pilot of American Airlines Flight 77, which reportedly crashed into the Pentagon, was not originally scheduled to be on that flight. But, the New York Times reported: "Bill Cheng, an American Airlines pilot who normally flies Flight 77, changed his plans in late August and applied for time off on [September 11] so he could go camping. When another pilot signed up for the slot, Mr. Cheng's application was accepted." Whether Cheng was replaced by Captain Charles Burlingame or by First Officer David Charlebois was unstated. [6]
And Jason Dahl, the pilot of United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in rural Pennsylvania, was not originally supposed to be on the doomed flight. But he reportedly wanted to put in extra hours so he could take time off for his wedding anniversary on September 14. [7] Therefore, "At his request, [his wife] Sandy Dahl traded for the flight on their home computer." Days after the request, Dahl "would pilot Flight 93 to San Francisco, having traded a trip later in the month for this one," journalist and author Jere Longman wrote. [8]
MANY FLIGHT ATTENDANTS AND PASSENGERS ONLY BOOKED ONTO 9/11 FLIGHTS AT LAST MINUTE
What is more, over half of the flight attendants--13 out of a total of 25--were not originally scheduled to be on the four targeted aircraft, and many of the passengers--including almost half of those on Flight 93--were not originally booked to be on those flights. [9]
Furthermore, these statistics are based only on information that has been reported to the public. It is quite possible that others of the pilots originally at the controls of the aircraft involved in the 9/11 attacks were only assigned to the flights at the last minute, and took the place of another pilot. Similarly, there could have been additional passengers and flight attendants who were only booked onto the four flights at the last minute, but this fact has not yet been reported. Certainly, further investigation is needed to look into this possibility. The fact that Thomas McGuinness was only revealed to have been a last-minute replacement for the original co-pilot of Flight 11 in August 2011 shows that important new information about 9/11 can surface even now, more than 10 years after the attacks.
What, though, is the reason for the bizarre and inexplicable finding that so many crew members and passengers on Flights 11, 175, 77, and 93 on September 11 were not originally supposed to be on those flights? An unrestrained new investigation of 9/11 needs to examine this matter thoroughly. The official account of 9/11 cannot explain this oddity. The answers investigators find could therefore fundamentally change our understanding of what exactly happened during the terrorist attacks.
NOTES
[1] Margaret Talbot, "A Mighty Fortress." New York Times, February 27, 2000; Dennis Hoey, "Prayers Answered, and a Church Finds Land for New Home." Portland Press Herald, March 1, 2003.
[2] Peter Scheibner, In My Seat: A Pilot's Story From Sept. 10th-11th. August 30, 2011.
[3] "Pilot Reflects on Being Spared From 9/11 Cockpit." WYFF 4, September 10, 2011.
[4] Peter Scheibner, In My Seat.
[5] Sally Applegate, "Flight 11 Crew Not Forgotten." Georgetown Record, September 18, 2003; "A Time to Reflect." Georgetown Record, September 7, 2005.
[6] Elaine Sciolino and John H. Cushman Jr., "A Route out of Washington, Horribly Changed." New York Times, September 13, 2001.
[7] "Pilot: Jason Dahl." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, October 28, 2001; Jane Pauley, "No Greater Love." NBC News, September 11, 2006.
[8] Susan Besze Wallace, "Legacy of Sept. 11 Pilot Comforts Widow." Denver Post, December 16, 2001; Jere Longman, Among the Heroes: United Flight 93 and the Passengers and Crew Who Fought Back. New York: HarperCollins, 2002, p. 1.
[9] "Last-Minute Pilots, Passengers, and Flight Attendants: The Unexplained Oddity of 9/11." Shoestring 9/11, March 31, 2008. _________________ http://www.shoestring911.blogspot.com |
|
Mark Gobell On Gardening Leave
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 4529
|
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
The short film In My seat is here.
The film was made by Peter Scheibner, Stephen Scheibner's son, who made it as part of his university course.
I've been in touch with Peter today and may have more to add later.
Quote: | NOTES
[1] Margaret Talbot, "A Mighty Fortress." New York Times, February 27, 2000;
Link to NYT source is here:
|
24 internet pages all about the Scheibner's radical Christian fundie lifestyle, allegedly published on 27 February 2000 and written by one, Margaret Talbot who is listed in the article as being a fellow at the New America Foundation.
So, Stephen Scheibner, a Naval Reserve pilot and yet another Christian fundie supposedly on the fringes of the 9/11 fairytale.
Quote: | Steve Scheibner is certainly a patriotic guy: he has served in the Navy for 17 years, most recently flying drug-interdiction flights in the Caribbean.
Page 15 of NYT "A Mighty Fortress" |
He's also a very busy guy too. While he's not "interdicting drug smugglers" on behalf of the US Navy, he attends a seminary and provides home schooling for his multitudinous children.
In between flying passengers around for American Airlines of course, or not, as the story allegedly goes for 9/11.
Quote: | Inside, there is no such ambivalence. Although the Scheibners are well off and their house is comfortably appointed -- Steve is a pilot with American Airlines and a commander in the Naval Reserves -- what might strike many visitors first is what's missing.
Page 2 of NYT "A Mighty Fortress"
|
In the Foreign Policy Wiki description for the New America Foundation we read:
Quote: | The New America Foundation
Foreign policy
New America’s National Security Studies Program researches and analyses a wide range of global issues, from the inner-workings of al-Qaeda to overall national foreign policy strategy. With the presence of journalists such as Steve Coll and Peter Bergen, New America has carved out a policy niche in the issues of Afghanistan and counter-terrorism. Bergen, who leads the program, is a CNN national security analyst and author of several best-selling books, including, "The Longest War: The Enduring Conflict between America and Al-Qaeda." Coll, president of New America, has also written several books on al-Qaeda and Afghanistan, including the 2005 Pulitzer Prize winner for general non-fiction, Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden.
New America also has a policy focus on the Middle East with its Middle East Task Force, co-directed by Daniel Ley and Leila Hilal, which covers analysis and commentary on the Middle East and North Africa. |
Another odd anomaly is that the NYT piece "A Mighty Fortress" is dated 27 February 2000.
But a search of the way back machine shows that the earliest archive for the NYT article is dated: 15 September 2010 - around the time of the "new information" in the film "In My Seat" "around the 10th anniversary of 9/11."
http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/27/mag azine/a-mighty-fortress.html
Most odd why there is no archive of the NYT article from sometime nearer 27 February 2000.
The entire Bill Cheng "story" also emanates from a single NYT article too.
As I'm sure you know Shoestring, the John Ogonowski story is somewhat contradictory too.
Over 10 years for the Stephen Scheibner "story" to emerge, yet Bill Cheng's back story was available from the freeze dried, instantly available narrative cupboard, 1 day after 9/11 ...
Do AA pilots also, really, sit down the day before to see what flights are available ?
How too, are they supposed to know that they are the "only pilot available", and even then, get replaced by another "available" pilot ?
Quote: | Chap in the film who is supposed to be Stephen Scheibner:
... and sure enough there was one flight that was available, American Airlines, Flight 11 ...
... and it just so happend on Septmber 11th 2001 there was only one guy available to go flying that day and that was me ...
I didn't know any different because they (AA) never called ...
They took off on time.
Wife: The problem with the contractors was that they were scared, they thought they were going to be dealing with the distraugt woman who had just lost her husband.
|
Even though her "husband" had been replaced by Thomas McGuinness ?
And then Steve, whilst not having had his "cancellation" confirmed by AA, toddles off to go work for the Navy that day ...
"A secretary from a school I used to attend looked up my name and called me on my cell phone. She was the first to call.... and then some friends called from Texas."
Why were they calling him ?
"I didn't realise that was the flight I was supposed to be on - I was watching it on TV and it didn't click with me"
"And then I was even more curious, who had bumped me"
So, not having his "reservation" confirmed in a phone call from AA on Sept 10th, he didn't bother to look up that day, having only just made his "reservation", on Thomas McGuinness' birthday, to see why he had not been called - ie: to see who had bumped him, before he forgot all about his trip to LA on Flight 11 of course ...
On that basis, if someone got distracted at AA and didn't in fact call back the reserving pilot, you know, human error, we could all be sitting on any AA plane, at the gate, waiting for a pilot who couldn't be bothered to find out why he hadn't been called and also couldn't be bothered to check if he'd been replaced. A pilot, who, the next day, forgets what flight he booked himself onto.
Hmm - do you believe any of it ?
AA11 was in fact, "pushed back" with, the ultra strange anomaly of passengers possibly boarding after it was "pushed back" ...
Spare me the violins and Betty Ong, please.
The domain name inmyseat.org was registered on 02-Feb-2012 and is registered to:
Almost Reel Studios,
Cavalier Drive
Apt 21
Greenville South
Carolina 29607
I can't find an internet presence for Almost Reel Studios.
The registrant is: Peter Scheibner - peterscheibner at gmail period com
Maybe the story is "almost real" but not quite ?
Quote: | In My Seat: A Pilots Story from Sept 10th - 11th
“Where were you on September 11th?”
We always ask that questions expecting the person to answer with some variation of, “At work.” or “At school.” The important question should be, what are you doing now?
Steve Scheibner wasn’t where he thought he would be on September 11th, and today God is using that fact to touch the lives of people all over the world.
What are you doing with your life? |
Poking my big fat fingers through gaping holes in bullsh*t videos at the moment ...
The entire "we have some planes" narrative should, imo, be viewed within the context of Operation Northwoods.
Especially the "carefully prepared aliases" bit ...
. _________________ The Medium is the Massage - Marshall McLuhan. |
|
Mark Gobell On Gardening Leave
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 4529
|
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
OK I've waited nearly a week and the chap who uses that email address who claims to be Peter Scheibner the son of Steven Scheibner the Navy Reserve / AA pilot, hasn't replied to my last email so I assume he's copped a deaf 'un and that 's that.
We had a polite and civil email exchange where I asked him about his Dad's age, how long he'd been a pilot at AA, his work at the Navy and the seemingly ridiculous way that AA apparently uses a system of negative confirmation, not to roster their applicant pilots.
I asked him why his Dad didn't bother checking back to see why he had been "bumped" for only the 4th time in 20 odd years, how come he went to work for the Navy that day if he had intended to be flying for AA and could he just turn up for work at the Navy, as a "reserve" any time he chose.
Also, could he provide any proof that his Dad worked for AA and how did he know that he was the only AA pilot available that day to take that flight and how come he forgot which flight he was bumped from only the very next day, who are Almost Reel Studios and who financed the film.
These are the only two "answers" I managed to get.
Quote: | AA has a list of available Pilots for a given flight. The order that flights are assigned it based on Seniority. On American Flight 11 my Dad was the only person available to fly on that flight. So based on previous experience he prepared to leave on the flight. But because he never got the call officially assigning him to the flight he never left. |
In my first email I clearly stated that I was sceptical of the story so he would know exactly where I was coming from. He replied that he would be happy to answer my questions.
As soon as I ask them though I got referred back to the NYT article.
Quote: | Well obviously you are calling the credibility of my film into question... Most of your questions about the authenticity of who my Dad is can be answered by a New York Times article written in 2000. This is the link. http://newamerica.net/node/5945
After reading that let me know if you have any more questions about the authenticity of the system. |
Does he even know what's in that article as it is nothing to do with flying or being rostered as an AA pilot and doesn't even reference "the system" let alone explain anything about "the system."
I explained my reservations about that story, given it's author's affiliations and that it doesn't appear in the archives but no further answers were forthcoming. Indeed, the only "answers" that I did get just confirmed the film's narrative, without the backdrop of pilots uniforms on a clothes rail ...
So, the entire story is supposed to be supported by the NYT / New America article from February 2000, supposedly written by someone who appears to be from the New America foundation. See previous post for link.
There is no archive of either story in the way back machine from that time.
The earliest archive of the story is of the NYT article dated from 15 September 2010 - around the time that Peter Scheibner's film, "In My Seat" was released.
There is no archive of the New America URL.
So, we are left to assume that the NYT changed their robots.txt file just in time for the film's release ?
*
The statement "AA has a list of available Pilots for a given flight." throws up other questions.
I wish I knew more about their rostering system.
I am surprised that a "supposed" regular, scheduled flight can apparently be "pilotless" or "co-pilotless" right up to the day before it is scheduled.
Open question:
Do you think it likely that AA use a system that means that if a pilot doesn't get a call back then he is not rostered ?
Think about how that system could fail and the implications of that.
Quote: | As I asked earlier, one of the things I don't understand is how and why your Dad did not check on the 10th that he had been bumped and just assumed that was the case because he didn't get a confirmation phone call from AA.
If true then that sends the entire AA rostering system into some kind of potential chaos should someone not make the call, which given the levels of human error, I guess must happen and yet we don't hear of stories of aircraft sitting at departure gates waiting for their AA crews, so I guess this "assumptive" non-rostering works perfectly.
Your Dad says that it has only happened to him 4 times in his entire career and yet still that anomaly does not provoke him into checking up.
I do not understand therefore why your Dad wasn't the least bit curious to find out why he was bumped or even if he had been bumped and it wasn't due to say human error.
He says in your film "I didn't know any different because they (AA) never called ... " and so he goes to work for the Navy that day. |
What happens if someone at AA gets drunk at lunchtime / goes sick / gets sacked / dies / forgets to call ?
What happens if your phone stops working for any number of reasons?
What happens if someone is on the phone for ages and AA can't get through?
What happens if someone takes the call and forgets to pass the message on ?
At what point do you decide "oh they haven't called me so I can't have been rostered"?
If it is such a rare event then would you not be a little bit curious as to why you didn't get the call and who has taken your place?
Would you not check up to see why as it's only the 4th time in your 20 year career that it's happened?
Any of these scenarios and more would result in aircraft sitting at the gate without a full crew.
Someone accidentally cut my telephone cable with a garden strimmer once and I didn't know it had happened until the next day.
I have no idea if this story is true or not but the description of the way AA is supposed to roster it's pilots doesn't make much sense to me and the lack of curiosity on behalf of Mr Scheibner the Navy Reserve / AA pilot about why, what he describes as a very rare event, why he wasn't confirmed that day and his subsequent memory loss of such a rare event and that he had booked himself onto Flight 11, all seem very curious to me too.
I suggested to "Peter" that as he probably wouldn't know the answers to my questions perhaps he could forward my emails to "his Dad."
I've also sent this link so he can reply here if he so chooses.
Any thoughts Shoestring ?
. _________________ The Medium is the Massage - Marshall McLuhan. |
|