PCC Hobbits or Orcs? Police Commissioners Col. Tim Collins

[cem]

.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8801539/Col-Tim-C ollins-aims-to-shake-up-police.html


Iraq War leader unveiled as Tory hope for new police commissioner (*)

Colonel Tim Collins, the former Army officer famed for his inspirational eve-of-battle speech to his troops in the Iraq War, is to stand as one of Britain's new elected police commissioners.

by Alastair Jamieson and Patrick Hennessy, Sunday Telegraph, 2 October 2011

[fish5133]

Take your pick


Link
Tim Collins speech reenactment. Questionable was it "rightful destruction"



Link
Tim Collins post Iraq analysis



Another US soldiers viewpont

Link

[TonyGosling]

The secret US lobbyists behind Police and Crime Commissioner election
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9623068/The-secret-US-lobbyis ts-behind-Police-and-Crime-Commissioner-election.html
A high-profile candidate campaigning to become one of the Government’s new elected Police and Crime Commissioners is being secretly backed by American neo-conservative lobbyists and companies pushing for police privatisation.
Mervyn Barrett describes himself as opposed to 'party politics'
By Andrew Gilligan - 9:30AM BST 21 Oct 2012
Mervyn Barrett has flooded Lincolnshire with expensive leaflets, free DVDs and full-page newspaper adverts in his bid to be elected as its policing supremo next month.
Unusually for a rural local election, he has employed professional campaign staff, commissioned weekly opinion polls, opened “field offices” and is driven in a chauffeured Mercedes.
He has poured tens of thousands of pounds into the elections, far more than any other candidate anywhere else in Britain.
Mr Barrett describes himself as an “independent”, opposed to “party politics” in policing. He has refused to disclose who is funding him, despite widespread local suspicions generated by the intensity and professionalism of his campaign.
However, it can now be revealed that it has been run by a team from a US-based neo-conservative think tank, the Fund for the New American Century, funded in part by a variety of corporate donors with an interest in public-sector privatisation.
The entire campaign team resigned yesterday within hours of being contacted by The Sunday Telegraph.
Lincolnshire may have been chosen because the county’s police are already “outsourcing” pioneers.
The troubled firm G4S has recently taken over key functions at the force, including its custody suites, central control room and firearms licensing department. G4S also plans a new central police station in a village outside Lincoln, with the existing city centre station closed and sold for housing.
After G4S’s security failures at the Olympics, Mr Barrett strongly backed the company, saying that the Lincolnshire deal was “working well.” He attacked his rival candidates, who suggested cancelling the deal, for making “bankrupt promises” and “playing politics”.
Investigation of Mr Barrett’s campaign website reveals that it is registered to a New York and Washington-based “political action committee”, MatthewPAC, part of The Fund for the New American Century, whose website says it is “dedicated to building America’s future by supporting candidates who share our vision for reform and innovation”.
The fund is expanding in Europe and is advertising for a UK-based “assistant to the executive chairman” on a salary of up to £55,000.
Mr Barrett’s campaign has also advertised for staff, speaking of the “sophisticated and wide-ranging support available from our US and UK-based consultants”.
The Sunday Telegraph has established that Matthew de Unger Brown, Mr Barrett’s “special adviser”, campaign manager and press spokesman until yesterday, is also chairman of the Fund for the New American Century.
“We support Republican candidates. It is a centre-Right organisation,” Mr de Unger Brown said. “I don’t think that neo-con would be an unfair description.”
One of Mr Barrett’s opponents in the election, David Bowles, another independent and former chief executive of Lincolnshire county council, said: “It is a very slick campaign but it appears that Mervyn is no more than a puppet.
"Every time I have tried to contact him, the response has always come back from Matthew and every time I’ve tried to meet him it’s been Matthew I’ve met instead.”
Mr Bowles claimed that last week Mr de Unger Brown asked to meet him to discuss the possibility of an electoral deal, with Mr Barrett becoming his deputy.
“Matthew told me that the funding for Mervyn’s campaign was coming from people with an interest in police sector privatisation,” Mr Bowles said.
“I was told that any deal including Mervyn would be conditional on that funding continuing, and I made it clear that I was not prepared to accept a penny.”
Mr de Unger Brown said that his organisation was also backing other Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) candidates elsewhere in England, Mr Bowles added.
Directly elected PCCs, one for each force area outside London, were part of one of the Government’s flagship policing reforms, intended to “sweep away” police bureaucracy and “give people real control” over their force.
The commissioners, paid up to £100,000 a year, will replace unelected police authorities and control police budgets and strategy, though “operational matters” will remain in the hands of the local chief constable.
Some analysts have long feared that a low turnout in the November 15 elections could hand “Trojan horse” candidates power and control over policing with only a few thousand votes. The Electoral Reform Society warned last month that the poll could become a farce, with turnout of just 18.5 per cent.
Mr de Unger Brown said last night: “The Fund for the New American Century takes, both in the UK and the US, funding from a variety of corporate donors.
“Mervyn Barrett for PCC has not taken — directly — any money from organisations that have any interest in commissioning outsourced services.” He refused to deny that money had been supplied via the fund.
Mr de Unger Brown said his campaign would comply with all disclosure requirements of electoral law, but under a loophole in Electoral Commission rules, independent candidates do not have to publish details of their donors until after the election. He declined to say which companies were providing funding, but said the campaign envisaged spending almost £100,000 by polling day.
A few hours after being contacted by The Sunday Telegraph, Mr de Unger Brown and his campaign team resigned.
Shortly after announcing his candidacy, Companies House records show, Mr Barrett established a new company, Trinity Advisory Ltd, based at his home.
It is not clear what the purpose of the company is or what advice Mr Barrett is offering and no accounts have yet been filed.

G4S said that it had not funded any PCC campaign.
Critics of the PCC elections have raised fears over the democratic accountability of candidates elected on very small turnouts.
“The focus on turnout could make us miss a real opportunity to debate the liberal consensus on how to tackle crime,” said Sam Chapman, a former police officer and unsuccessful candidate for the Conservative PCC nomination in Lancashire.
“There are police and other interests who don’t want PCCs and want to make this election unsuccessful. Some of the Government’s decisions have played into their hands.”
During the passage of the legislation, the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), which represents chief constables, pushed hard for drastic restrictions on candidates. Any conviction for a criminal offence carrying a potential prison sentence is a bar to standing, even if the person was not themselves imprisoned and even if they were a juvenile at the time.
One of the best-known figures to consider standing, the Falklands war hero Simon Weston, fell foul of the rule.
In the mid-1970s, as a 14-year-old, Mr Weston, who is now 51, was fined £30 and put on probation for riding in a stolen car, though he did not know it was stolen. Another well-qualified candidate, Bob Ashford, a former senior executive in the youth justice system, was forced out because of a minor conviction in 1966, when he was 13.
Other rules include a strict residential qualification which bars many potential candidates, such as the broadcaster Nick Ross, who do not live in the county where they want to stand.
The depth of the candidate problem is shown by the fact that virtually the only prominent figure left in the race is Lord Prescott, who is standing in Humberside, one of 41 police forces in England and Wales to be holding elections. “Some of the candidates are quite good,” said Mr Chapman. “But some are mediocre placemen, councillors and police authority members who are being very conventional.”
So what? many voters may say: policing should be left to the police. But with the scandal of Hillsborough fresh in the mind — and five chief constables, in the last six months alone, sacked, suspended, forced to resign or placed under investigation — it appears hard to believe that police leadership cannot be improved.
“The police have essentially been unreformed for a long time and chief constables are used to doing what they want,” said Mr Chapman.
“The pity of these elections is that there could have been a real debate about crime and policing, but we haven’t got it yet.”

[item8]

[outsider]

Col. Tim Collins, accused of pistol-whipping Iraqi civilian and other crimes, was (surprise, surprise!!) found not guilty by the British Army inquiry:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1440333/Army-officer-praised-by -Bush-is-cleared-of-pistol-whipping-Iraqi.html#

Yes, not really an unexpected decision, given the brutal torture and murder of a prisoner, Baha Mousa, where only one scape-goat was charged, pleaded guilty and was sent to prison for a year
( http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/product/39-22/Corporal-Donald-Pa yne ):

Seven British soldier admitted inhumane treatment and Cpl Donald Payne (Payne in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwHU7DGyoyE ) was jailed for a year and dismissed from the Army:


A final 1,400-page report said a "large number" of soldiers assaulted Mousa and that many others including officers must have known about the abuse. The report called this death an "appalling episode of serious gratuitous violence". The inquiry condemned the Ministry of Defence for "corporate failure" and the regiment for a "lack of moral courage to report abuse".


http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness  /PublicationOfTheBahaMousaInquiryReport.htm

http://www.bahamousainquiry.org/f_report/vol%20iii/Part%20XVIII/Part%2 0XVIII.pdf


So Tim Collins was found innocent? I'm sure if one of Al Capone's 'torpedos' was investigated by one of Capone's 'Judges', he would also have been found innocent (and the accuser found some time later 'sleeping with the fishes'!).

[TonyGosling]

Gwent police commissioner appoints ex-colleague to £52k role

11:10am Saturday 8th December 2012 in Gwent news
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/gwentnews/10096832.Gwent_police_ _commissioner__appoints_ex_colleague_to___52k_role/
NEW ROLE: Ian Johnston has appointed an ex-colleague as his deputy

GWENT's new police and crime commissioner wants to appoint a retired police officer he has known for 30 years as his deputy.

Ian Johnston told the first meeting of the Gwent Police and Crime Panel that he intends to appoint Gwent's first financial investigator Paul Harris to be the region's deputy police and crime commissioner.

There have been concerns nationwide that police and crime commissioners (PCCs) have been appointing contacts, friends and former colleagues to the role.

But speaking to the Argus Mr Johnston denied that Mr Harris, who will earn £52,000 a year on a contract of 37 hours a week, was a crony.

"I see it as extremely sensible and pragmatic that I would appoint someone that I know and trust," Mr Johnston said.

Under the law Mr Johnston is able to appoint a deputy. Although the police and crime panel, which scrutinises the PCC and is made up of Gwent councillors, will review the decision and make a recommendation on it at a confirmation meeting in January, it cannot veto his decision.

Mr Johnston had told the panel that from the day he decided to stand he intended to appoint Mr Harris.

He said that Mr Harris joined the force as a 17-year-old cadet, and patrolled in uniform in Pontypool and Cwmbran before joining CID early in his career.
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He was later a leading fugure in the force's fraud squad and was Gwent's first financial investigator, before he was seconded to the national criminal intelligence service.

Mr Harris, who retired from policing two years ago, spent his career in more recent years working overseas, where he was an attache to the British embassy in the Hague, in the Netherlands.

Lately the retired Newport police officer has been working for the foreign and commonwealth office and has undertaken consultancy work in the public sector.

He said: "I have known Paul for 30 years and I have first hand experience of his attainment and skills. I'm convinced that his personal style... and his experience will make him an ideal candidate for the job."

Mr Johnston told the Argus he was Mr Harris' detective sergeant when Mr Harris was a detective constable in 1981.

He said that Mr Harris went to Holland as a detective chief inspector but left policing as a detective superintendent.

Mr Johnston said his proposed deputy police and crime commissioner has been a work colleague and a friend, but said Mr Harris has been in Holland for ten years. He said he was not a "crony".

Although he had said during his campaign that he wanted to appoint a deputy, he had not said who out of respect for the panel. "There's a proper procedure to go through and that's the way I have done it," he said.

Mr Johnston says Mr Harris will work more than the 37 hours he will be contracted to.

MPs speak out over deputy

TWO Labour MPs have spoken outover the appointment – although one Gwent Tory said he did not think it was a big issue.

Paul Flynn, Labour Newport West MP, said he didn't think it was a wise move and said the deputy should be someone from the community.

"The last person I would have wanted in the job was another policeman," he said.

Paul Murphy, Labour Torfaen MP, said he didn't see how appointing fellow ex-officers to be their deputies would help commissioners show the public that their role was worthwhile.

"Commissioners were meant to be the voice of the public and scrutineers of chief constables, not echoes of them," he said.

David Davies, MP for Monmouth, said he didn't think it was a "big issue": "I think it would have been the same whoever was in charge."

"I think it was always expected that the police commissioner couldn't do it by themselves."

But a supporter of Ian Johnston Lindsay Whittle, Plaid AM for South Wales East, said the commissioner's decision should be respected.

However he said it might have been wise for PCC candidates to have told the electorate that they had a running mate.

ARGUS COMMENT: PCC Deputy will be seen as crony

GWENT’S new police and crime commissioner is appointing a deputy.

Fair enough, you might think. It’s a big job and there is only so much one person can do.

PCC Ian Johnston made clear during the election campaign that he would have a deputy so the appointment is not a secret.

But the process for such an appointment, paid for with public money, is simply not good enough.

In fairness to Mr Johnston, he is following procedure in giving Paul Harris the deputy’s role on a salary believed to be in excess of £50,000 a year.

But that procedure allows PCCs to appoint whoever they want as their deputy. There is growing concern around the country as PCCs appoint friends, contacts and colleagues to these roles.

Mr Harris’ appointment can be scrutinised by a panel of councillors but they have no power of veto.

Mr Johnston won an election to become Gwent PCC. Fewer than 10 per cent of people voted for him but he nonetheless won an election fair and square.

Mr Harris did not have to stand for election, or apply for the deputy’s job, or face any kind of selection procedure.

That cannot be right for any high-profile job, let alone one that is paid for by the public, and the process will undoubtedly lead to allegations of cronyism.

Mr Johnston has played by the rules. But the rules are an ill-conceived mess.



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Comments(55)

Dee-Gee says...
11:33am Sat 8 Dec 12
"I see it as extremely sensible and pragmatic that I would appoint someone that I know and trust," Mr Johnston said.

So... a crony, then. Not the person ith the best qualifications, or the widest experience, or a fresh perspective from another sector. A pal who'll have your back.

From Wikipedia: Cronyism exists when the appointer and the beneficiary are in social contact. Often, the appointer is inadequate to hold his or her own job or position of authority, and for this reason the appointer appoints individuals who will not try to weaken him or her, or express views contrary to those of the appointer.”

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portman says...
11:47am Sat 8 Dec 12
This Stinks!”

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gathin says...
11:53am Sat 8 Dec 12
It has happened in other areas too and was reported on a week ago. We have been screwed over again. You really have to wonder how stupid and dumbed down they think the we are? How many people bothered to vote anyway? This exact same thing happened when the plastic-parliament got elected at the Cardiff Bay joke-shop.”

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Woodgnome says...
11:58am Sat 8 Dec 12
I hope those that now complain actually voted.

Police monitoring the police - is this wise Captain Mainwaring?”

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33daverave says...
12:08pm Sat 8 Dec 12
The gravy train of corruption has begun.There`s a surprise,not.”

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gathin says...
12:09pm Sat 8 Dec 12
And one more thing Argus reporters!.. It's called the Hague not Hauge!! God, if you can't even learn to be accurate in any of your reporting (which has errors on every issue- especially the newspaper) what exactly was the point in going to university to attain this journalist position? You really need to hire a proof-reader to read your stuff before it's printed.”

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Cwmderi says...
12:56pm Sat 8 Dec 12
Mr Harris appears to be extremely well qualified and has the broad experience to take up position of Deputy but I can understand public (not political) views that the new administration of the PCC office can appear to have a police blue line running through it.”

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Bill Chapman says...
1:35pm Sat 8 Dec 12
This really is a scandal. Will anyone join me in a campaign to abolish these unwanted and discredited posts?”

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denlexx3 says...
1:54pm Sat 8 Dec 12
33daverave wrote:
The gravy train of corruption has begun.There`s a surprise,not.
yep your so right my friend what a bloody rip off jobs for the boyo's or what, and all coming out of the police budget it stinks.
someone should be looking in to this big time.”

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denlexx3 says...
1:55pm Sat 8 Dec 12
Bill Chapman wrote:
This really is a scandal. Will anyone join me in a campaign to abolish these unwanted and discredited posts?
me for one”

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fatblokeroundhead says...
2:17pm Sat 8 Dec 12
''Mr Johnston has played by the rules. But the rules are an ill-conceived mess.''
Whether it is work or play, the people with which we associate most are those that share our views and that we know and trust. However, when it comes to appointment of public office, surely the scrutinizing panel of councillors should have some input, just as anyone who is employed by any elected official, councillor or MP, is scrutinized, vetted & subsequently deemed fit for the role. Oh, wait a minute; that doesn't happen does it? Ian Johnston was elected by public vote, as were our other policy makers, by us & on our behalf. I didn't vote in the PCC election & as a result have no right to condemn or praise the system that I opted out from. 'What is, is', as long as I have the right to vote, that's all that I can ask for. Maybe the PCC should be obliged to employ a recently released convicted criminal, say someone who has served a minimum of 10 years in prison, as a consultant? That should provide some balance to the role.”

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denlexx3 says...
2:18pm Sat 8 Dec 12
gathin wrote:
It has happened in other areas too and was reported on a week ago. We have been screwed over again. You really have to wonder how stupid and dumbed down they think the we are? How many people bothered to vote anyway? This exact same thing happened when the plastic-parliament got elected at the Cardiff Bay joke-shop.
your so right who hell wanted that lot anyway good help wales we will be a third world country in no time at all”

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Newportlad says...
2:28pm Sat 8 Dec 12
So he left British soil to go to holland ? Did he not like our laws?
He's recently been working as a mercenary ? In a foreign country?
Key word foreign different laws than here...
You tempted him back with a big fat 52k a year worm ......

Go you ....”

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gathin says...
3:09pm Sat 8 Dec 12
Bill Chapman wrote:
This really is a scandal. Will anyone join me in a campaign to abolish these unwanted and discredited posts?
BC, it'll never happen unfortunately. Once it's a "yes" we'll never ever get the chance of a "no." It's like the EU voting system. They only do it while it suits them and really couldn't give a monkey's about what we think.”

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Robindabank says...
3:12pm Sat 8 Dec 12
This is shocking...the kind of thing that happens in a banana republic. Both have pensions and now have additional salaries. The deputy role should have been openly advertised and filled by someone through fair open competition. Far better for someone capable who needs a job rather than a nice top up for a pension. This is a million miles away from the type of governance, we the paying public deserve.”

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cath 872 says...
3:19pm Sat 8 Dec 12
Jobs for the BOYS indeed! Why didn't any women put themselves up for the job? Is there really any need for this post anyway, irrespective of gender? On polling day nobody turned up to vote at Bettws, perhaps everyone else should have followed suit.
Mr Harris will be earning five times my annual wages. For this amount of taxpayers money I will be expecting both the Commissioner and his Deputy to have made Newport a safe and crime free area in a year. I look forward to it!”

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33daverave says...
3:53pm Sat 8 Dec 12
I wonder if they`ll be employing family members as office staff ?
Big expense accounts as well,no doubt.”

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davidcp says...
4:18pm Sat 8 Dec 12
Mmm. Not altogether supportive but how were members of the OLD Police Authority appointed????
Not by us.

And Gathin is right - or can we expect a referndum on the Welsh Asembly (you can change your name but that's all you were elected to be by JUST OVER 25% of voters - hardly a ringing success, eh?)”

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Katie Re-Registered says...
4:40pm Sat 8 Dec 12
"Paul Flynn, Labour Newport West MP, said he didn't think it was a wise move and said the deputy should be someone from the community"

Sorry to disappoint you Mr Flynn, but judging by your own past definition of whom you consider being authentically "from the community", in the real world it's virtually impossible to find someone who has at least 350 years 'pure' ancestry in one given locale(!)”

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wantit says...
5:01pm Sat 8 Dec 12
.”

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pjwivell says...
5:07pm Sat 8 Dec 12
Typical as predicted by everyone when the job for PCC was put to the vote. "Jobs for the boys". But is the job that big and that important enough to warrent a Deputy, and one who only works 37 hours, and gets £52k a year. this stinks, And now I expect they'll both want top PA's to help them, maybe from the same group of friends.
There will be a panel of councellors to scrutinise, oh and guess what they haven't got the power to veto the appointment. Funny that, and I expect Mr Johnston knew this, and admitted he had it all planned right from the start of the election.”

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mr david says...
5:10pm Sat 8 Dec 12
what a mess jobs for the boys again we see it all the time, gathin is right.”

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wantit says...
5:19pm Sat 8 Dec 12
Well, I suppose the residents of Gwent only have themselves to blame because of the poor turnout at the polling booths. However, we are now stuck with a less than acceptable situation where you have two retired senior police officers on very large pensions, now earning very large salaries, who will be policing the police. Surely this cannot be allowed to happen. What happened to the ethos of all of this, whereby Gwent Police were suppose to be represented by members of the community to ensure that Gwent Police deliver an efficient, effective and community based service. I hope someone will step in to ensure that this appointment doesn't take place, and that a member of the public, independent of the police, takes up this appointment. If not, look out Gwent..the days of independent scritiny are gone. It now looks like we have another Chief Constable and a deputy, or so it will seem. I agree with other people who have commented in relation to Cronyism.”

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Dai the Milk says...
5:47pm Sat 8 Dec 12
There you go. I did warn you. Several times.”

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rightsideup says...
6:01pm Sat 8 Dec 12
I'm suprised that Ian Johnston made this appointment,although Harris MAY be the man best for the job.He must have realised the furore this will cause.”

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jaynie9369 says...
6:03pm Sat 8 Dec 12
So this is democracy Mr Johnston retires from Gwent police force with a handsome pension in hand and then walks back into a police commisioners job on a further substantial salary ! if he is genuinely determined to rid the streets of crime he should do so without receiving a salary.the fact he is then allowed to appoint a freind as his deputy who also happens to be a retired police officer is absolutely rediculous its jobs for the boys !”

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NakedDancer says...
6:56pm Sat 8 Dec 12
jaynie9369 wrote:
So this is democracy Mr Johnston retires from Gwent police force with a handsome pension in hand and then walks back into a police commisioners job on a further substantial salary ! if he is genuinely determined to rid the streets of crime he should do so without receiving a salary.the fact he is then allowed to appoint a freind as his deputy who also happens to be a retired police officer is absolutely rediculous its jobs for the boys !
Sorry, Johnson didn't 'walk back in', he was elected so no-one has cause for complaint re his appointment, particularly as the vast majority didn't bother voting. It's a shame a non political non-policeman didn't run as i'm sure they would have been elected.

However, what is surprising (or probably not) is that knowing the public suspicion of the police governing the police...Johnson appoints another ex-policeman that he knows. Naive or belligerent ? either way a poor start just reinforcing what many people expect of the police.”

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Crazydad says...
7:29pm Sat 8 Dec 12
Jobs for ths boys?? Is anyone surprsied by this. This has been on the cards and the reason for the election in the first place. The moeny be paid to this new commsioner should have been given to the police to use to fit crime, they need it. These posts were and are not required it undermines the role of the Chief of Police (isnt this what they are paid to do? Manage the police force in your area and comply with policy). If not sack the senior officers and let the commissioner and deputy do these jobs.”

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wonder williams says...
7:42pm Sat 8 Dec 12
I don’t understand the fuss.

During the campaign he said he would appoint a deputy if elected. Now he’s won he's doing what he said he’d do. If people weren’t happy about the prospect of a deputy being appointed they should have voted for someone else.

In addition he is doing what the legislation allows so if you want to blame someone blame the Government for passing the legislation which allowed the appointment of deputy commissioners.

Come on people keep up.”

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Ian MacKinlay says...
8:13pm Sat 8 Dec 12
gathin wrote:
And one more thing Argus reporters!.. It's called the Hague not Hauge!! God, if you can't even learn to be accurate in any of your reporting (which has errors on every issue- especially the newspaper) what exactly was the point in going to university to attain this journalist position? You really need to hire a proof-reader to read your stuff before it's printed.
You mean like in the eleventh paragraph:

"Lately the retired Newport police officer has been working for the foreign and commonwealth office and has undertaken consultancy work in the public sector", where the writer does not appear to think capital letters are called for in "Foreign and Commonwealth Office", nor for several instances where they would be appropriate for "Police and Crime Commissioner".

At least the Argus has not let the teaboy write the headlines or picture cation today.”

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Ian MacKinlay says...
8:16pm Sat 8 Dec 12
Ian MacKinlay wrote:
gathin wrote:
And one more thing Argus reporters!.. It's called the Hague not Hauge!! God, if you can't even learn to be accurate in any of your reporting (which has errors on every issue- especially the newspaper) what exactly was the point in going to university to attain this journalist position? You really need to hire a proof-reader to read your stuff before it's printed.
You mean like in the eleventh paragraph:

"Lately the retired Newport police officer has been working for the foreign and commonwealth office and has undertaken consultancy work in the public sector", where the writer does not appear to think capital letters are called for in "Foreign and Commonwealth Office", nor for several instances where they would be appropriate for "Police and Crime Commissioner".

At least the Argus has not let the teaboy write the headlines or picture cation today.
Correction "caption".”

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Bill Chapman says...
8:17pm Sat 8 Dec 12
There is now a petition to the Government we can all sign at:

http://epetitions.di
rect.gov.uk/petition
s/41806”

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Ian MacKinlay says...
8:28pm Sat 8 Dec 12
Newportlad wrote:
So he left British soil to go to holland ? Did he not like our laws?
He's recently been working as a mercenary ? In a foreign country?
Key word foreign different laws than here...
You tempted him back with a big fat 52k a year worm ......

Go you ....
So,Newportlad.

Presumably you haven't got a clue what this sentence is about :

"Mr Harris, who retired from policing two years ago, spent his career in more recent years working overseas, where he was an attache to the British embassy in the Hague, in the Netherlands."

Heaven help us.”

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Ian MacKinlay says...
8:28pm Sat 8 Dec 12
Newportlad wrote:
So he left British soil to go to holland ? Did he not like our laws?
He's recently been working as a mercenary ? In a foreign country?
Key word foreign different laws than here...
You tempted him back with a big fat 52k a year worm ......

Go you ....
So,Newportlad.

Presumably you haven't got a clue what this sentence is about :

"Mr Harris, who retired from policing two years ago, spent his career in more recent years working overseas, where he was an attache to the British embassy in the Hague, in the Netherlands."

Heaven help us.”

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Lenin says...
10:11pm Sat 8 Dec 12
Jobs for the boys? How can anyone have faith in this system?”

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East Newport Dave says...
7:34am Sun 9 Dec 12
This is a brilliant appointment typical of the ability and single-mindedness of Ian Johnson. He would have been only too well aware of the criticism the appointment would draw but has pressed on regardless. Paul Harris is a high-achieving workaholic who has huge experienced in multi-million pound fraud investigation and high level crime. When he was appointed to the Netherlands there was no requirement upon him to learn the language however, he was quickly fluent. Together with Ian he will be going through the force's books with a fine-toothed comb, identifying waste and demanding that funds be re-directed where they most need to go.”

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gathin says...
7:41am Sun 9 Dec 12
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^
None of us, the public actually believe that this will happen and we'll just end up paying their wages through our council tax and they'll be taking lots of days off playing golf and half days on Friday.”

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Newportlad says...
8:23am Sun 9 Dec 12
Ian MacKinlay wrote:
Newportlad wrote: So he left British soil to go to holland ? Did he not like our laws? He's recently been working as a mercenary ? In a foreign country? Key word foreign different laws than here... You tempted him back with a big fat 52k a year worm ...... Go you ....
So,Newportlad. Presumably you haven't got a clue what this sentence is about : "Mr Harris, who retired from policing two years ago, spent his career in more recent years working overseas, where he was an attache to the British embassy in the Hague, in the Netherlands." Heaven help us.
If u look I've put question marks at the end of my sentence....”

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areyour4real says...
9:56am Sun 9 Dec 12
Does anyone really know what the point of this election was? To give responsibility back to the public via a vote or just to waste a massive amount of money?
How many coppers could be doing a job if they hadn't gone through this charade?
This whole thing has been a big wasteful mess.
52k to be deputy!!!!
The real crime is the waste of money this has all been.
The thing is I'm sure these two men will do a far better job than any politicians.”

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Dai the Milk says...
10:19am Sun 9 Dec 12
Hubristic and nepotistic in the extreme. This is our money. Fat pensions and 130 K plus expenses every year. We are in a financial crisis. People can't afford basics. What would that buy every year for the community? If they feel so strongly about making the streets safe, why don't they both offer their experience as volunteer special constables instead?”

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Robindabank says...
10:20am Sun 9 Dec 12
Which ever way you dress this up, this is a poor error of judgement. Mr Johnston may have determination, but that's only one skill of a good leader. Arguably more important is transparency in public office. The only way this can be vindicated is through results.....we'll see.”

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Dai the Milk says...
10:25am Sun 9 Dec 12
.......and 10% of the community voted? Then no selection procedure for the deputy?....... so far less than 10%!!!!!!!! Is this really happening? In a banana republic maybe..... but this is 2012 in the UK? Is this the type of society we want?”

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Cwmderi says...
11:18am Sun 9 Dec 12
So maybe it would have been better to elect a long standing politician as our PCC for Gwent, like Labour's Alun Michael.
If anyone thinks that retired police officers have huge pensions, then I would suggest they take a serious look at the pensions packages of politicians like Mr Michael who has been elected as the PCC for South Wales Police.
Much is being made of the salary level of the Deputy Commissioner. To put this in perspective, the £52k is far less than a Deputy Head of an average Comprehensive school or two days wages for a top footballer.
Come on folk, wake up and smell the coffee.”

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real comment says...
11:38am Sun 9 Dec 12
HERE WE GO -JOBS FOR THE BOYS. ANOTHER QWANGO TO GROW AND GROW”

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gathin says...
11:49am Sun 9 Dec 12
Hey, we didn't need a PCC to start with, let alone a deputy! As somebody already stated on this thread having the police incharge of investigating the police in any manner whatsoever is an absolute absurdity. I bet the whole thing is a QUANGO^^ too. Has anybody checked to see if these monkeys are a registered business like ACPO,Gwent police or Newport,Torfaen and all other councils? I'd bet that they are and it'll all be about making as much profit for their shareholders as possible. Fascism dressed up as democracy- Lovely,eh?”

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Dai the Milk says...
12:42pm Sun 9 Dec 12
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? 'Animal Farm' has arrived at last.”

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gathin says...
12:47pm Sun 9 Dec 12
They watch themselves and hope we don't notice..”

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Shillabeers nemesis says...
1:49pm Sun 9 Dec 12
cronyism at its worst.”

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pensioner2012 says...
4:48pm Sun 9 Dec 12
previously quoted above....
"But a supporter of Ian Johnston Lindsay Whittle, Plaid AM for South Wales East, said the commissioner's decision should be respected"

That Mr Lindsay is because you got your man in using Plaid Cymru party machinery that you have post election been stating, so you would say that. BUT now that you've got him elected you are partly responsible for the outcome. You as a party have lost face by not being more open about your involvement in his campaign for a so called Independent candidate with no political backing. What a joke

Or Mr Lindsey is he now keeping you In the dark after all your help?
as you now state
" However it might have been wise for PCC candidates to have told the electorate that they had a running mate" Or Mr Lindsay did you also know from the beginning?
Mr Johnston said he it was always going to be his friend Paul Harris from the start of his campaign, So who has fooled who?”

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pensioner2012 says...
4:57pm Sun 9 Dec 12
East Newport Dave wrote:
This is a brilliant appointment typical of the ability and single-mindedness of Ian Johnson. He would have been only too well aware of the criticism the appointment would draw but has pressed on regardless. Paul Harris is a high-achieving workaholic who has huge experienced in multi-million pound fraud investigation and high level crime. When he was appointed to the Netherlands there was no requirement upon him to learn the language however, he was quickly fluent. Together with Ian he will be going through the force's books with a fine-toothed comb, identifying waste and demanding that funds be re-directed where they most need to go.
So you are from the same CLUB as them then that's the connection. This is just a psycophantic post by yet another friend of Ian Johnston.

Which role will you east Newport Dave now be getting in Ian Johnstons expanding empire?

Did Paul Harris work for Ian Johnston at his consultancy company?

This is not a brilliant appointment it is a disgraceful waste of the residents of Gwent public money.

His arrogant attitude is what has driven him to this NOT his awareness of criticism.”

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East Newport Dave says...
6:59am Mon 10 Dec 12
pensioner2012 wrote:
East Newport Dave wrote:
This is a brilliant appointment typical of the ability and single-mindedness of Ian Johnson. He would have been only too well aware of the criticism the appointment would draw but has pressed on regardless. Paul Harris is a high-achieving workaholic who has huge experienced in multi-million pound fraud investigation and high level crime. When he was appointed to the Netherlands there was no requirement upon him to learn the language however, he was quickly fluent. Together with Ian he will be going through the force's books with a fine-toothed comb, identifying waste and demanding that funds be re-directed where they most need to go.
So you are from the same CLUB as them then that's the connection. This is just a psycophantic post by yet another friend of Ian Johnston.

Which role will you east Newport Dave now be getting in Ian Johnstons expanding empire?

Did Paul Harris work for Ian Johnston at his consultancy company?

This is not a brilliant appointment it is a disgraceful waste of the residents of Gwent public money.

His arrogant attitude is what has driven him to this NOT his awareness of criticism.
It is important to understand the mentality of Ian Johnston and Paul Harris. Between them they have 70 years of experience of 'finding people out'.
You can be assured that the only reason that Ian Johnston has appointed Paul Harris is that he needs a financial investigator capable of picking the finances of Gwent Police to bits. He would know that if he is to challenge the running of the force, he needs to have the full picture in micro-detail. Paul Harris will provide him with this artillery and will uncover any financial impropriety to boot.
The person who will be most worried in all of this will be Carmel Napier.
If you wanted a politician in the role, why didn't you vote one in? He or she could have held weekly surgeries answering questions on what the Chief Constable is doing about the neighbour's dog pooping on your lawn. That's what local politicians do, isn't it?”

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Dai the Milk says...
8:53am Mon 10 Dec 12
East Newport Dave wrote:
pensioner2012 wrote:
East Newport Dave wrote:
This is a brilliant appointment typical of the ability and single-mindedness of Ian Johnson. He would have been only too well aware of the criticism the appointment would draw but has pressed on regardless. Paul Harris is a high-achieving workaholic who has huge experienced in multi-million pound fraud investigation and high level crime. When he was appointed to the Netherlands there was no requirement upon him to learn the language however, he was quickly fluent. Together with Ian he will be going through the force's books with a fine-toothed comb, identifying waste and demanding that funds be re-directed where they most need to go.
So you are from the same CLUB as them then that's the connection. This is just a psycophantic post by yet another friend of Ian Johnston.

Which role will you east Newport Dave now be getting in Ian Johnstons expanding empire?

Did Paul Harris work for Ian Johnston at his consultancy company?

This is not a brilliant appointment it is a disgraceful waste of the residents of Gwent public money.

His arrogant attitude is what has driven him to this NOT his awareness of criticism.
It is important to understand the mentality of Ian Johnston and Paul Harris. Between them they have 70 years of experience of 'finding people out'.
You can be assured that the only reason that Ian Johnston has appointed Paul Harris is that he needs a financial investigator capable of picking the finances of Gwent Police to bits. He would know that if he is to challenge the running of the force, he needs to have the full picture in micro-detail. Paul Harris will provide him with this artillery and will uncover any financial impropriety to boot.
The person who will be most worried in all of this will be Carmel Napier.
If you wanted a politician in the role, why didn't you vote one in? He or she could have held weekly surgeries answering questions on what the Chief Constable is doing about the neighbour's dog pooping on your lawn. That's what local politicians do, isn't it?
Your argument would hold some water if it appeared above board and impartial but you know and I know it isn't. As no one yet has offered an answer to my question 'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes'? let me answer it because this is the horrible truth. Custodes ipsos custodient custodes. Scary. And Joe Public is funding this.”

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bobjones2011 says...
10:37am Mon 10 Dec 12
What exactly will this "Deputy" do anyway? There's hardly a position to fill for the Police Commissioner in the first place!”

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dalesman1666 says...
12:47pm Mon 10 Dec 12
This appointment certainly sends out the wrong message, Not the best of starts then.But then its only more wasted cash from the taxpayers.”

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East Newport Dave says...
1:32pm Mon 10 Dec 12
Dai the Milk wrote:
East Newport Dave wrote:
pensioner2012 wrote:
East Newport Dave wrote:
This is a brilliant appointment typical of the ability and single-mindedness of Ian Johnson. He would have been only too well aware of the criticism the appointment would draw but has pressed on regardless. Paul Harris is a high-achieving workaholic who has huge experienced in multi-million pound fraud investigation and high level crime. When he was appointed to the Netherlands there was no requirement upon him to learn the language however, he was quickly fluent. Together with Ian he will be going through the force's books with a fine-toothed comb, identifying waste and demanding that funds be re-directed where they most need to go.
So you are from the same CLUB as them then that's the connection. This is just a psycophantic post by yet another friend of Ian Johnston.

Which role will you east Newport Dave now be getting in Ian Johnstons expanding empire?

Did Paul Harris work for Ian Johnston at his consultancy company?

This is not a brilliant appointment it is a disgraceful waste of the residents of Gwent public money.

His arrogant attitude is what has driven him to this NOT his awareness of criticism.
It is important to understand the mentality of Ian Johnston and Paul Harris. Between them they have 70 years of experience of 'finding people out'.
You can be assured that the only reason that Ian Johnston has appointed Paul Harris is that he needs a financial investigator capable of picking the finances of Gwent Police to bits. He would know that if he is to challenge the running of the force, he needs to have the full picture in micro-detail. Paul Harris will provide him with this artillery and will uncover any financial impropriety to boot.
The person who will be most worried in all of this will be Carmel Napier.
If you wanted a politician in the role, why didn't you vote one in? He or she could have held weekly surgeries answering questions on what the Chief Constable is doing about the neighbour's dog pooping on your lawn. That's what local politicians do, isn't it?
Your argument would hold some water if it appeared above board and impartial but you know and I know it isn't. As no one yet has offered an answer to my question 'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes'? let me answer it because this is the horrible truth. Custodes ipsos custodient custodes. Scary. And Joe Public is funding this.
There is a simple answer to this. Ian Johnston and Paul Harris are no longer serving officers and so it is not a case of needing to guard the guardian.
I wouldn't perceive conduct and discipline to be a key function anyway. For the record, I am also a retired officer but I have only met Ian Johnston, at a chance meeting, once in the past 8 years. The same goes for Paul Harris. My relationship with them was purely professional.
In common with almost all retired and/or serving officers I have spoken to, I fully support Ian's appointment because he has the knowledge, ability and (most of all) courage to make a genuine difference.
Don't believe that it is a CLUB because the Gwent police garden is anything but rosy. Ian has merely chosen the best person to do a job.”

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[outsider]

Col. Tim Collins pulled out of the Kent Police post application, as he thought it could be done on a part-time basis.

Though I have no time for his Iraq activities, he does have a good side; he tried to expose the Kincora child abuse scandal.
However, when I contacted him re US scandals, he has not replied.

[TonyGosling]

Avon and Somerset Police boss Colin Port loses court action
A bid by the chief constable of Avon and Somerset Police to block the recruitment of his replacement has been thrown out by a high court judge.
"I'm extremely sorry that Mr Port's career has ended in such an unsatisfactory way," Mr Justice Edwards-Stuart said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20944403