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scubadiver Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 1850 Location: Currently Andover
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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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As you have stated before (I think), a hypothesis has to be falsifiable which I certainly agree to. If you are so sure that we are so wrong then FALSIFY IT!!!!
We as truth seekers state the hypothesis that the US Administration either (a) let 9/11 happen or (b) made it happen, at the very least was complicit in the attacks. All the evidence seems to back this up.
You only have to provide one piece of evidence that falsifies it. It is rather like saying all swans are white. If you can provide a swan that isn't white, then our hypothesis is wrong.
You have made statements which seem to prove that OBL perpetrated the attacks yet you have not provided sources of information which backs up your claims, yet every piece of evidence we provide you say is unprovable.
Don't you think that is rather hypocritical.
If you can provide one piece of evidence that can disprove our hypothesis then I would be impressed.
In your list of evidence that OBL perpetrated the attacks you mention the money trail. What you "selectively" kept out is that the Director-General of the ISI, mahmud ahmed, was pushed out office by the CIA after the Indians discovered he had given Mohammed Atta $100,000 dollars. This link was discovered by Indian Intelligence.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?xml=0&art_id=14 54238160
http://www.indiareacts.com/nati2.asp?recno=518
It was confirmed by the FBI
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26249
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msi d=107432
Or are you now going to say that the FBI, the mainstay of crime investigation, is wrong? Which leads you in what direction...? |
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Jay Ref Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 511
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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Daughter: Daddy, why do you never spend anytime with me?
Truther Daddy: Well because I am busy collecting evidence and heresay from laymen inorder to bring down the people who run our country.
Daughter: Why Daddy?
Truther Daddy: Because there is no REAL evidence to bring them down darling, so I have to get what I can, or fabricate it. Like that CNN poll I told you about. You know, the one Daddy and his friend went to over and over again to change the results.
Daughter: But isn't that dishonest Daddy?
Truther Daddy: Are you really my daughter, or are you a CIA plant? _________________ "Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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Jay Ref Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 511
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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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scubadiver wrote: | As you have stated before (I think), a hypothesis has to be falsifiable which I certainly agree to. If you are so sure that we are so wrong then FALSIFY IT!!!! |
You obviously do not understand what "falsifiable" means.
Quote: | falsifiable
adj : capable of being tested (verified or falsified) by experiment or observation [syn: confirmable, verifiable] |
Quote: |
We as truth seekers state the hypothesis that the US Administration either (a) let 9/11 happen or (b) made it happen, at the very least was complicit in the attacks. All the evidence seems to back this up. |
What evidence? Again your theory is unfalsifiable. (That means it cannot be verified) It means there is no evidence!
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You only have to provide one piece of evidence that falsifies it. It is rather like saying all swans are white. If you can provide a swan that isn't white, then our hypothesis is wrong. |
Again you show an amazing level of ignorance. If you have a theory why does it make sense that I have to prove it for you? Well?
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You have made statements which seem to prove that OBL perpetrated the attacks yet you have not provided sources of information which backs up your claims, yet every piece of evidence we provide you say is unprovable. |
Thick as two short planks you are!
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Don't you think that is rather hypocritical. |
What? That I'm a hypocrite because I can't find evidence to support your idiotic theory? If I tell you there is a lovely silver teapot in orbit around Pluto...you tell me (correctly) that it's an unfalsifiable statement....then I get to call you a hypocrite?
That really make sense to you????
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If you can provide one piece of evidence that can disprove our hypothesis then I would be impressed. |
Great...how 'bout you show me evidence that can disprove my teapot theory? Talk about impressive!
What makes you think a single-sourced story that has never been independently verified is true? Your bias perhaps?
-z _________________ "Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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insidejob Validated Poster
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 475 Location: North London
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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: And who are you Jay Ref? |
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Jay Ref,
You can find a brief description of me on this website. A longer one is as follows. I'm black, live in north London, was a journalist and now I am into public relations, worked for the civil service and had a long history of involvement with the Labour Party and now the trade union movement. I believe in conspiracy theories because I've been subject to one - a supposed black terrorist group and the British League of Patriots. I find the idea that British-born Muslims would blow themselves up (7/7) quite ridiculous and if you believe it, you must be paranoid. I used to believe that bin Laden did it, then discovered some facts.
I've looked at your description but there's nothing there. (Is that deliberate?) Jay Ref, who are you? And what motivates you to challenge 911 sceptics in their websites? Jay Ref, reveal yourself.
By the way, in UK law courts you can convict on 'circumstantial evidence' and 'beyond reasonable doubt' is OK for murder. But the FBI can't find evidence to produce a prima facie 911 case against bin Laden. We don't need Karl Popper's scientific theories about falsifiability. |
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Andrew Johnson Mighty Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1919 Location: Derbyshire
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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Jay Ref wrote: | Daughter: Daddy, why do you never spend anytime with me?
Truther Daddy: Well because I am busy collecting evidence and heresay from laymen inorder to bring down the people who run our country.
Daughter: Why Daddy?
Truther Daddy: Because there is no REAL evidence to bring them down darling, so I have to get what I can, or fabricate it. Like that CNN poll I told you about. You know, the one Daddy and his friend went to over and over again to change the results.
Daughter: But isn't that dishonest Daddy?
Truther Daddy: Are you really my daughter, or are you a CIA plant? |
Jayref - now you're getting it!
I liked that one. Shame you pinched the idea from me though. But do you know, JP has called me a 12 year old for stuff like this. What will he think of you now, when you appear to have built up such a good working relationship?
By the way, I took my kids to the park this afternoon. We had a good time!
Oh yeah - and a friend of my wife's became aware of 9/11 Truth, I am pleased to say, through a conversation with my 8 year old daugther. She was sent a disk last week.
Cheers dude. |
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Andrew Johnson Mighty Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1919 Location: Derbyshire
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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hi folks and welcome to....
TROLLFEST 2006!
Blast - I said I wouldn't do it! Flip. _________________ Andrew
Ask the Tough Questions, Folks! |
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DeFecToR Moderate Poster
Joined: 11 Jul 2006 Posts: 782
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:02 am Post subject: |
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chipmunk stew wrote: |
-z
In case anyone wondered why I stopped posting here, this is a prime example.
You guys should take a page from the Loose Change forum handbook, and just ban critics on sight. It would save you a lot of time for, oh I don't know, moderating and whatnot, rather than trolling the Critic's Corner deliberately derailing discussions.
Cheers! |
Hey chipmunk.
I'm glad to know that you are still reading this forum if not posting on it, though i wish to god you were. You were someone who i could deal with, and learn from. And, if i might dare to be a little presumtious, is open to 'our side'.
I have a topic i started somewhere about how i am sick of this back and forth rubbish and having a proper debate is impossible with idiots like Jay Ref around. I would love to get some new topics going with you on a couple of subjects. Reason being, having been around this nazi Jay Ref has made me realise exactly how valuable your style of arguement was.
I was an * when dealing with you before, i know, but it took having a truely close-minded person around to understand the worth of your arguements.
Fancy coming back?
I've recently posted a topic on the Dancing Israelis that i would love for your opinion on.
As for you Jay Ref. Saying those are loaded questions is a cop out. An entirely transparent way of avoiding having to answer a question that you know you cant. Whilst some of those questions are slightly nebulous, most are straight-forward questions with simple, if yet unknown answers.
Yet again you have shown yourself to be a coward.
BTW, just because Andrew is a moderator he's not allowed to post some humour?
Perhaps he post that instead of wasting his time argueing because thats all anyone has done around here recently and it hasnt gotten anyone anywhere. Dont get all indignant just because he's a moderator. He, like you, can post whatever the hell he wants. _________________ "A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
-William James |
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Johnny Pixels Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 932 Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: |
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DeFecToR wrote: |
BTW, just because Andrew is a moderator he's not allowed to post some humour?
Perhaps he post that instead of wasting his time argueing because thats all anyone has done around here recently and it hasnt gotten anyone anywhere. Dont get all indignant just because he's a moderator. He, like you, can post whatever the hell he wants. |
He should lay off on the ad hom attacks though, seeing as that's forum rule number one, and moderators should abide by the rules. |
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Andrew Johnson Mighty Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1919 Location: Derbyshire
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Cheers Defector! I hope you're having as much fun taunting these "happy posters" as I am!
JP,
That military training really is ground in deep isn't it? Lighten up! This could be the start of a beautiful relationship!
You see, whatever we post, you just contradict us - so I am afraid that this post is already too long for something which is utterly pointless - largely because of, well the deterministic law of gravity, like. Our friendship has come a long way since then, though ay?
I do hope you're enjoying life. Despite the anguish and frustration you cause on here, many of us here are enjoying life.
Hey - just had a thought! Charlie Sheen was in a film called "Platoon", was was it "Full Metal Jacket" - I get them mixed up.
Charlie knows the official story is a lie too! Mind you, he wasn't a real soldier - but then again, your debates are not real, and neither is the OCT of 911. Funny that.
Who are you Johnny? Who are you? Do you know? What do you stand for? Do you really feel what you do is for the benefit of our future? Do you know yourself? Are you happy? I do hope so.
Love and Kisses
Andy Spam Boy 12 year old 'n' that. |
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scubadiver Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 1850 Location: Currently Andover
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Jay Ref wrote: |
Again you show an amazing level of ignorance. If you have a theory why does it make sense that I have to prove it for you? Well?
-z |
You are twisting what I am saying to suit your own purposes which doesn't surprise me.
Its up to you disprove it but can you? |
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Andrew Johnson Mighty Poster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1919 Location: Derbyshire
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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chipmunk stew wrote: | Jay Ref wrote: | Andrew Johnson wrote: | Daughter: "Daddy, what do you at work?"
JayRef: "Well sweetheart, one of this things I do is that I go onto these internet message boards. There are these people called 'Truthseekers'. I argue with them just for the sake of it."
Daughter: "Oh. Why do you do that, Dad?"
JayRef: "Well, it's actually fairly easy work, especially when you've irritated them. Sometimes they say to me that I have no conscience and that I don't care that the organisation I work for is responsible for the slaughter of thousands of people."
Daugther: What's a conscience Dad?
JayRef: I'm not really sure. I think it's got something to do with telling the truth, rather than pretending to tell the truth."
Daughter: "But isn't it naughty to pretend that you are telling the truth?"
JayRef: "Well, it depends. When a group of people look like they are going to expose a global criminal network, the people who run the organisation I work for start to get worried."
Daughter: "I don't really understand what you mean."
JayRef: "Well, I am afraid, that if I didn't lie to these truthseekers, you wouldn't be able to eat or have any toys or anything."
Daughter: "Oh!"
JayRef: "Yes - it's true."
Daughter: "....but Daddy, if you lie in your work, how do I know when you are telling me the truth?"
JayRef: "Because you are my daughter - I will always tell you the truth."
Daughter: "But Dad, if I was to go onto one of thost internet message boards, would you lie to me there?"
JayRef: "Ummm.... Errrr.... Of course not Sweetheart...." |
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In case anyone wondered why I stopped posting here, this is a prime example.
You guys should take a page from the Loose Change forum handbook, and just ban critics on sight. It would save you a lot of time for, oh I don't know, moderating and whatnot, rather than trolling the Critic's Corner deliberately derailing discussions.
Cheers! |
The above, in case anyone is wondering, is called a "Thought Experiment". JayRef and Johnny Pixels and probably Chipmunk Stew (and others) are clones.
I use this sort example "story telling" as an (obviously futile) attempt to engage their consciences and get them to stop lying to us all.
Their attitude shows no humility, no humanity and no humour. Hey I can use that the 3 H's - a good test by which to judge posts!
Their robotic, algorithmic programming and training can easily be seen and exposed just by comparing their posts to one another's - and ours. For the 3 of them and their ilk, they are almost clones of each other. They have little or no spontinaity, only ask questions in a challenging (interrogative) manner rather one of genuine curiosity. There is no real humour in them, only insults and derision. They refuse to identify themselves.
Any people reading this can simply scan through the posts they have made and consider them against the description above.
So undecided people, you can now see clearly there are people who are being employed to suppress the truth using tactics of fakery, antagonism, ridicule and denial. All I have done is describe their activities.
All you out there in TV land, what are you going to do it about this situation? _________________ Andrew
Ask the Tough Questions, Folks! |
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Johnny Pixels Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 932 Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Andrew Johnson wrote: |
The above, in case anyone is wondering, is called a "Thought Experiment". JayRef and Johnny Pixels and probably Chipmunk Stew (and others) are clones. |
Really? You've excelled yourself this time. Oh wait, no, this is the same accusation as before. Keep avoiding the arguments and keep attacking the man, that's good debate technique.
Quote: |
I use this sort example "story telling" as an (obviously futile) attempt to engage their consciences and get them to stop lying to us all.
Their attitude shows no humility, no humanity and no humour. Hey I can use that the 3 H's - a good test by which to judge posts! |
Sorry, you posted nonsense, and I didn't laugh, because it wasn't funny. That doesn't show that I have no humour, that shows that you're not funny.
Quote: | Their robotic, algorithmic programming and training can easily be seen and exposed just by comparing their posts to one another's - and ours. For the 3 of them and their ilk, they are almost clones of each other. They have little or no spontinaity, only ask questions in a challenging (interrogative) manner rather one of genuine curiosity. There is no real humour in them, only insults and derision. They refuse to identify themselves. |
So despite the fact that your professor buddy told you I wasn't a robot, you continue to believe that I am. Quite simply, you have problems. You may want to seek professional help. No this is not humour, this is me showing humanity. I really think you need help.
Quote: | Any people reading this can simply scan through the posts they have made and consider them against the description above. |
Strange, that on a forum that's supposed to be about something serious, I made serious posts. If there were a humour section, I might post something humorous, but there isn't and I don't want to derail the debate by making jokes. The death of over 3000 people isn't high on the list of things that make people laugh.
Quote: | So undecided people, you can now see clearly there are people who are being employed to suppress the truth using tactics of fakery, antagonism, ridicule and denial. All I have done is describe their activities.
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Sounds like what you're doing. You're the one who posts pictures of Anne Robinson.
The thing is, people actually see that you're acting like a buffoon, and think that you have no argument, mainly because you never post any. |
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paul wright Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 2650 Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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Can somebody get rid of these guys?
I hate to say it, but the simplest answer is to ban 'em
Now I've been banned from places, Urban 75 for example, and nearly banned from places, AboveTopSecret, as another example
It's not a pleasant experience
However The cause was expression of my own personal experience and opinion, not premeditated disruption. I loved my opponents in those places and didn't seek to belittle them
I sincerely believe that Jay Ref and JP are here purely on an agenda of time-wasting and disruption and ought really to be asked to leave
I think we might be an open-minded bunch of hippies here, but this really is getting beyond a joke
These guys are harmful _________________ http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction |
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Johnny Pixels Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 932 Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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dh wrote: | Can somebody get rid of these guys?
I hate to say it, but the simplest answer is to ban 'em
Now I've been banned from places, Urban 75 for example, and nearly banned from places, AboveTopSecret, as another example
It's not a pleasant experience
However The cause was expression of my own personal experience and opinion, not premeditated disruption. I loved my opponents in those places and didn't seek to belittle them
I sincerely believe that Jay Ref and JP are here purely on an agenda of time-wasting and disruption and ought really to be asked to leave |
Ah, the age old answer to critics, ban them. |
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Jane Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Posts: 312 Location: Otley, West Yorks, England
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Why bother with this guy - he's a professional time waster
The only thing he's seeking to debunk is people's self-confidence
I'll admit he's good at his job
F**K HIM RIGHT OFF _
_________________ |
So are they all! Don't waste your time on these "winkers" - go out and stick some 9/11 Truth Movement stickers around your home town or something, instead!!! I'm annoyed with myself for even "wasting my time" in writing this now!!! _________________ Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
http://www.wytruth.org.uk/ |
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paul wright Moderator
Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 2650 Location: Sunny Bradford, Northern Lights
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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You are not a critic, you are a disruptor with an agenda
You are controlled scum
You have pat responses to every aspect of the case
You want to belittle the contributors here in every way you can through sarcasm and derision
You have no use here whatsoever. I've been on the other side of this and know full well how my personal opinions can grate
Your opinions are evidently not personal but of a premeditated campaign
So, yes, I'd love to see you on your way
You are a waste of time and space _________________ http://www.exopolitics-leeds.co.uk/introduction |
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Johnny Pixels Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 932 Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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dh wrote: | You are not a critic, you are a disruptor with an agenda
You are controlled scum
You have pat responses to every aspect of the case
You want to belittle the contributors here in every way you can through sarcasm and derision
You have no use here whatsoever. I've been on the other side of this and know full well how my personal opinions can grate
Your opinions are evidently not personal but of a premeditated campaign
So, yes, I'd love to see you on your way
You are a waste of time and space |
I argue with people about evolution too. They don't believe in it, and they tend to give the same kind of response. |
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