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Shoestring
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 Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:46 pm Post subject: New Photos Show Cheney Evacuated from Office After 9:35 am |
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Some of the newly-released photos of Dick Cheney on 9/11 give clear evidence that Cheney was only evacuated from his office at the White House after 9:35 a.m., and not shortly after 9:03 a.m. as has sometimes been suggested.
For example, if you zoom in on this photo of Cheney watching TV in his office (by clicking on the picture), it seems that the ABC News clock on the TV is showing a time of 9:33 a.m.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/19921999311/in/album- 72157656213196901/
And if you zoom in on this photo, the ABC News clock appears to be showing a time of 9:35 a.m. or 9:36 a.m.:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/19295963143/in/galler y-flickr-72157656324019012/
Furthermore, this photo:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/19916932565/in/album- 72157656213196901/
shows Cheney still in his office, watching President Bush giving his talk from the library at the Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida. This speech was given at 9:30 a.m. (see http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010 911.html).
This evidence is consistent with what I wrote in my article, "The Dangerously Delayed Reactions of the Secret Service on 9/11," where I indicated that Cheney was likely evacuated from his office after 9:35 a.m. You can read that article here:
http://shoestring911.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/the-dangerously-delayed-re actions-of.html
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scienceplease 2
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Shoestring
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| scienceplease 2 wrote: | I just examined the file's creation date.... (from JPEG meta data)
"2002:08:15" |
I assume this was the date that the photo was scanned into a computer.
From what I can gather, it seems that in 2001, White House photographers were still using non-digital cameras. In a book written by George W. Bush's photographer, Eric Draper, on p. 5 it states: "The first four years [of the Bush administration] were primarily recorded on film, but on Inauguration Day 2005, I decided the White House needed to become current. I directed my office to begin a digital workflow for the first time in White House history." (See http://www.amazon.com/dp/0292745478 and use the "Look Inside" feature to see the relevant text.)
I assume that David Bohrer used the same type of camera as Draper did. Therefore, his photos would have needed to be scanned into a computer.
These new photos do indeed indicate that Norman Mineta was wrong about the time of the "50 miles out, 30 miles out..." incident he said he witnessed. I'd suspected this already, for various reasons (which I can lay out for you, if you want). But these photos have confirmed my suspicions.
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scienceplease 2
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Shoestring wrote: |
These new photos do indeed indicate that Norman Mineta was wrong about the time of the "50 miles out, 30 miles out..." incident he said he witnessed. I'd suspected this already, for various reasons (which I can lay out for you, if you want). But these photos have confirmed my suspicions. |
Shoestring, I'd be very keen to hear why you think Norman Mineta's testimony is wrong.
I take your point about the time of scanning of the photographs - within the image metadata is the name LEAD Technologies which is the name of a technology company that is involved in scanning software.
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Shoestring
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| scienceplease 2 wrote: | | Shoestring, I'd be very keen to hear why you think Norman Mineta's testimony is wrong. |
I've come across several problems with Norman Mineta's account of his journey to, and arrival at, the Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) at the White House on September 11.
Firstly, Mineta said that when he arrived at the White House, the place was being evacuated, and people were "running away" or "running out" of there. (Source; source) But CNN's John King, who was outside the White House at the time and reporting the evacuation as it happened, said that people only started running away from the White House, in response to the Secret Service's orders, at around 9:45 a.m. Before then, people had been leaving the White House in a slow and orderly fashion. (Source) So this would indicate that Mineta arrived at the White House after 9:45 a.m., and could not have been in the PEOC at 9:20 a.m., as he has claimed.
Also, in one interview, Mineta said that when he arrived at the PEOC, Dick Cheney "was there, and so was Mrs. Cheney. ... This was before American Airlines [Flight 77] went into the Pentagon." (Source, 4 mins. into the video.) However, all of the evidence I have come across about when Lynn Cheney arrived at the PEOC is consistent with her having arrived at the White House at around 9:52 a.m., as is stated in the Secret Service's timeline. (Source--Lynne Cheney is referred to here by her code name, "Author.") So, if the Secret Service's timeline is correct, Mineta is also mistaken in his claim that "Mrs. Cheney" was in the PEOC when he arrived there, supposedly before Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.
Also, Miles Kara--a member of the 9/11 Commission staff--made what I think is an important point, by summarizing what Mineta reportedly was able to achieve between the second attack on the World Trade Center at 9:03 a.m. and around 9:20 a.m., when he supposedly was in the PEOC, observing Dick Cheney.
Kara wrote that on the morning of September 11: "Secretary Mineta was in his office on the top floor of the Department of Transportation building. He accomplished the following actions after UA 175 struck the South Tower. He assimilated what he saw and conversed with his staff. He took time to talk to CEO's of airlines. He descended to the ground floor and was driven to the White House West Wing gate, a minimum of eight minutes on a good day. He then passed through security and debarked at the West Wing where he met with Richard Clarke some time after the SVTS conference, which convened at 0940. ... Mineta had to then cross to the East Wing and descend to the PEOC." (Source)
So, according to his own accounts of his actions, it seems it would have been an extraordinary--maybe impossible--achievement if Mineta had reached the PEOC any time close to 9:20 a.m.
Other evidence casts doubt on Mineta's claim that Dick Cheney was in the PEOC at around 9:20 a.m.
First, a number of government officials have described going to Cheney's office after Flight 175 hit the WTC at 9:03 a.m., where they discussed what had happened with the vice president. These officials include John McConnell (Source, p. 332), Mary Matalin (Source), and Scooter Libby (Source). If their accounts are correct, at the very least it rules out the possibility that Cheney was evacuated in the initial period after the second attack on the WTC.
Second, I have come across accounts given by several people in which the person said they met Dick Cheney in the tunnel leading to the PEOC, and indicated this was at some time between around 9:40 a.m. and 10:00 a.m. These accounts have come from Lynne Cheney (Source), Scooter Libby (Source), and Secret Service agent Carl Truscott (Source). I have never read Mineta or anyone else claiming that Dick Cheney temporarily left the PEOC after first arriving there. So these accounts contradict Mineta's claim of Cheney being in the PEOC by around 9:20 a.m.
This evidence is all consistent with what I wrote in my article, "The Dangerously Delayed Reactions of the Secret Service on 9/11," where I indicated that Cheney was likely evacuated from his office after 9:35 a.m. You can read that article here:
http://shoestring911.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/the-dangerously-delayed-re actions-of.html
If the Secret Service evacuated Cheney from his office at around 9:35 a.m., this would also be consistent with the general pattern of the Secret Service's behavior on September 11, in that it appears to have been in a state of paralysis until shortly after 9:30 a.m. For example, it allowed President Bush to stay at the Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota until after 9:30 a.m., even though the U.S. was under attack and the president was an obvious target. And it only evacuated Laura Bush--the president's wife--from the Russell Senate Office Building and took her to a secure location after 10:00 a.m. See my article: "Laura Bush on 9/11: Why Was the President's Wife Left Vulnerable and Unprotected?" here:
http://shoestring911.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/laura-bush-on-911-why-was- presidents.html
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scienceplease 2
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Well as usual, this is all very credible and well researched, Shoestring. Thanks for taking the time to do this. The link to the CNN Transcripts was very useful (but not definitive, I feel).
According to the transcripts, at 9.52, that the white plane was flying overhead "10 minutes ago" - putting the E4B almost directly overhead at the time of the Pentagon explosion. I've also heard that there was one or two helicopters and a C-130 flying over head as well as the supposed hijacked plane all flying in this no-fly zone around the same time.
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a943apreports#a943aprep orts
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a937c130near77#a937c130 near77
[As an aside: I'm pretty sure that the story of the C-130 has not been adequately investigated. I've seen an interview with the pilot - he seemed like a nice guy - but I do not re-call him stating that he was instructed to follow the hijacked aircraft. And the C-130 route out to Shanksville... how coincidental was that!?]
So... Mineta stated that a young man, apparently Naval Officer David Cohrane, was calling out a distance of a target coming towards a location (presumably the Pentagon) and Cheney was less than cool with the question "Do the orders still stand?" when the target was 10 miles out. Compare this reaction with Cheney with his feet up watching TV - seems rather incongruous...
If Mineta was wrong in his timing - (although his timing of 9.20 would relate the attack to the Pentagon) then is his testimony related to the fourth plane? But Shanksville is 150 miles or so from Washington?
David Cohrane was called by a truther and the call was recorded. The conversation lasted for about ten minutes but Cohrane repeated the same statement again and again "The 9/11 Commission Report is the definite account of all matters associated with September 11th 2001." (or similar). The fact that Cohrane did not just slam the phone down indicates (to me) that he would have liked to have talked but was under very severe threat if he stepped out of line.
Is Mineta making everything all up or just mis-timed? Was it related to yet another supposedly hijacked aircraft - if so, why was Cohrane counting down to a target?
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Shoestring
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scienceplease 2
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Sorry for taking so long to follow up, Shoestring.
In 2007, Mineta apparently confirmed his testimony.
http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/260607_mineta.html
| Quote: | Norman Mineta Confirms That Dick Cheney Ordered Stand Down on 9/11
Former Transportation Secretary Disputes 9/11 Commission Report Timetable for Dick Cheney and Reveals Lynn Cheney Was Also in PEOC Bunker Before Attack
Aaron Dykes / JonesReport | June 26, 2007
Former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta answered questions from members of 9/11 Truth Seattle.org about his testimony before the 9/11 Commission report.
Mineta says Vice President Cheney was "absolutely" already there when he arrived at approximately 9:25 a.m. in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) bunker on the morning of 9/11. Mineta seemed shocked to learn that the 9/11 Commission Report claimed Cheney had not arrived there until 9:58-- after the Pentagon had been hit, a report that Mineta definitively contradicted.
Norman Mineta revealed that Lynn Cheney was also in the PEOC bunker already at the time of his arrival, along with a number of other staff.
Mineta is on video testifying before the 9/11 Commission, though it was omitted in their final report. He told Lee Hamilton:
“During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president “do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!?
Mineta confirmed his statements with reporters, saying "When I overheard something about 'the orders still stand' and so, what I thought of was that they had already made the decision to shoot something down."
Norman Mineta made it clear to reporters-- who verified his quotes in written text alongside him-- that Mineta was indeed talking about a stand down order not to shoot down hijacked aircraft headed for the Pentagon.
After no shoot down took place, it became clear that Cheney intended to keep NORAD fighter jets from responding-- evidence that Cheney is guilty of treason, not negligence for allowing the Pentagon to be hit.
The idea that "the order still stands" matches up with a change in NORAD and Pentagon orders-- issued on June 1, 2001, only months before 9/11. The document revoked the default standing orders to shoot down errant or hijacked aircraft and instructed them instead to stand down until they were given orders by the President, Vice President or Secretary of Defense.
Mineta was still in the PEOG bunker when the plane was reported down in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.
"I remember later on when I heard about the Shanksville plane going down, the Vice President was right across from me, and I said, 'Do you think that we shot it down ourselves?' He said, 'I don't know.' He said, 'Let's find out.' So he had someone check with the Pentagon. That was about maybe, let's say 10:30 or so, and we never heard back from the DoD until probably about 12:30. And they said, 'No, we didn't do it.'"
Of course, Donald Rumsfeld has stated before that the plane over Shanksville was "shot down," though whether it was a mistatement or a freudian slip of the truth is arguable. It certainly would seem that the story presented in United 93-- a dramatized account of the official government story-- is much, much less plausible than the plane simply being shot down. |
He does need more interrogation but we do have his official and unofficial statements on video compared with known-liars, Cheney and Bush, who have not provided anything with the same level of detail.
You mention Douglas Cochrane...
I took "David" from...
http://911blogger.com/news/2010-10-03/david-f-cochrane-young-man-norma n-minetas-testimony
...which seems to have transposed his name from Douglas to David since Jimd3100's earlier work points to Douglas.
Yes, Douglas Cochrane does not seem like a young man... but he undoubtedly would have known about Mineta's testimony.
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scienceplease 2
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Shoestring
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scienceplease 2
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Right. Same guy. Not a young man. Except in comparison to Mineta! 
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scienceplease 2
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FalseFlag
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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The photos taken in Cheney's office were taken after 9/11. The purpose is to attempt to prove that Cheney was in his office until at least 9:36am. If "they" can prove that Cheney was in his office until at least 9:36, it corroborates the official 9/11 Commission timeline and it discredits Norman Mineta's assertions that he arrived around 9:20am and Dick Cheney was already in the PEOC.
I have spent hours reviewing all of the photos. The woman in the following picture is allegedly Mary Matalin between 9:00am and 9:36am on 9/11/01. Notice her hair. It has two horizontal layers on the right side. Notice that she also has no visible horizontal wrinkles in her forehead. The wrinkles are not significant, but they are worth mentioning.
Here is a link to the picture - https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/19295977883/in/album- 72157656213196901/
Now, look at another picture of Mary Matalin taken later the same day. Notice the horizontal layers are gone, and the hair is longer. Also notice the large gold bracelet on her left wrist - https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/19890837346/in/album- 72157656213196901/
Here is another picture of her hair, but closer - https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/19729011988/in/album- 72157656213196901/
And here is one more - https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/19730326989/in/album- 72157656213196901/
I do not see how it is even remotely possible for a person's hair to grow as long as it did in such a short time. The hair is either not from the same person, or the pictures were not taken on the same day.
Now, after you call me crazy and stop laughing, remember the picture where Mary is wearing a large gold bracelet on her left wrist? Here is another picture of the gold bracelet on her left wrist - https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/19728932048/in/album- 72157656213196901/
Now, look at this picture, also allegedly taken on 9/11/01 - https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/19729033498/in/album- 72157656213196901/
I am not female, but I can't imagine anyone changing their jewelry on 9/11/01.
Here is another picture of Mary Matalin allegedly in the PEOC on 9/11/01, this time with no earrings at all and the gold bracelet on her right wrist -
https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/19728913718/in/album- 72157656213196901/
Mary isn't the only one who seems to have a jewelry issue. Lynne Cheney starts the day wearing a large brooch on her left lapel. By the end of the day the brooch is gone and she now is wearing earrings. Again, I'm not female, but watching thousands of people die on 9/11 did not make me worry about my appearance.
There are two pictures in the archive that show the younger Mary in the PEOC. I am assuming it's for continuity purposes.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/19294307894/in/album- 72157656213196901/
My guess, and this is only a guess, is that Norman Mineta "didn't get the memo", and he actually told the truth to the 9/11 Commission. The truth is damning to Cheney and the official story, so they faked the pictures in Cheney's office to make it look like he was there until 9:36am. This actually hurts Cheney as well, because it makes no sense for Cheney to be a sitting duck in the White House as an allegedly hijacked plane headed towards DC.
I believe that Mineta is telling the truth, and Cheney did nothing to stop the plane from hitting the Pentagon, or, did nothing to stop the plane from firing the missile that hit the Pentagon. After much research, I think the latter is the more likely scenario.
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FalseFlag
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| One more thing to note. The 9/11 footage on the TV is from ABC. They chose to play this footage for the picture shoot because the timestamp is the most visible out of the other options. It is unlikely that the Cheney would have been watching ABC. He would have been watching Fox or CNN, which you can see is on the TV's in the PEOC.
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FalseFlag
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone else see any of what I am seeing? Anyone?
I have asked many women about the jewelry discrepancies and they say they never change jewelry during the day. Even if you completely ignore the jewelry discrepancies, does anyone else think "Mary" is different in Cheney's office than she is in the PEOC? Or, at the very least, does her hair prove the pictures were taken on different days?
Anyone? Bueller. Bueller?
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Paul
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:59 pm Post subject: New Photos Show Cheney Evacuated from Office After 9:35 am |
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Dear False Flag,
Your analysis of Mary Matalin on 911 is quite brilliant.
Your 'eye', insights and deductions are as good as any photo interpretation I've seen across the 911 Truth Community.
I just wanted to let you know that.....
Congratulations!
Sincerely Yours,
Paul
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FalseFlag
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the response, I really appreciate it. I would really like to get as many opinions as possible, so please don't be afraid to share this post so more people can see it. If anyone doesn't see what I see, I welcome their interpretation. The more people who see this, the better.
I don't want to change anything in my original post, so I will just add more comments here.
After much more review, I think the jewelry discrepancies might actually be coincidental, and the pictures are actually a true reflection of what she was wearing on 9/11. I have searched for pictures of Mary Matalin on the internet and I have seen her wear bracelets and a watch at the same time on the same wrist; therefore, it is plausible that she wore gold bracelets on both wrists and a watch on her left wrist on 9/11.
I do think it's interesting that Lynne Cheney removed her brooch and then wore earrings, but it doesn't conclusively prove anything; it's just odd. So, I will just say that the jewelry issues are oddities and nothing more.
The hair, forehead wrinkles, and facial features are an entirely different issue, though. To me, there is more than enough to prove that the pictures in Cheney's office were taken on a different day. I also think it's a different woman in Cheney's office.
I think the real Mary's hair indicates that there were also two different photo sessions in the PEOC. One was real, and the second one was to make it look like certain people were in the PEOC on 9/11 when they actually weren't. I have no idea who all of the people are, so I can't prove this, it's just a theory.
Again, please share this post so we can get as many opinions as possible.
If we can prove the pictures in Cheney's office are staged, it will be clear, undeniable proof that "they" are lying. If we can prove "they" are lying about the pictures, then there is no reason to believe anything "they" say about anything else. If they lie once, it's reasonable to conclude that everything else is a lie.
Ironically, this is the reason they would have needed to stage the Cheney office pictures in the first place. If there is conclusive proof that Cheney was NOT in his office when the 9/11 Commission says he was, then the entire timeline and report can reasonably be questioned.
Please share this post if you have the ability to do so. Thanks.
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Whitehall_Bin_Men
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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PODCAST: PETER DALE SCOTT EXPLAINS THE SECRET CHENEY OPERATION ON 9/11
Published: September 12, 2015
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Podcast:_Peter_Dale_Scott_Explains_the_ Secret_Cheney_Operation_on_911_/46144/0/38/38/Y/M.html
9/11 was a seminal day in US history, but, as noted author and historian Peter Dale Scott tells WhoWhatWhy, the true significance of what happened goes far beyond what meets the eye. In this podcast, Scott focuses in particular on the implementation of a secret “Continuity of Government” plan that had been decades in the making. Consequently, he argues, there has been “a permanent change to the United States” that permeates the lives of all Americans. The result, according to Scott, has been the suspension of Constitutional rights and the transformation of America in ways that we are still living with today.
In this eye-opening, in-depth podcast interview with WhoWhatWhy’s Jeff Schechtman, Scott, a retired diplomat, professor, and father of the concept of “Deep Politics,” provides a whole new interpretation of the 9/11 attacks and the special opportunities they opened up for certain government elements to have a conflicted relationship with the law of the land — the US Constitution itself.
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Martin Van Creveld: Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."
Martin Van Creveld: I'll quote Henry Kissinger: "In campaigns like this the antiterror forces lose, because they don't win, and the rebels win by not losing." |
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FalseFlag
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:32 am Post subject: |
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My initial post here was linked to in another forum. So far, the response has been what I expected. I have confirmed that at least one person sees what I see in the Cheney office picture, and no one has given a valid explanation for the difference in hair length and behavior in subsequent pictures.
I am now going to contact other "truther" organizations to get their opinions on this issue.
Here is the link to the other discussion, if anyone is interested. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=ed0886020 9e84ff86171422604b85653&t=106507&page=2. I enter the discussion at post 41.
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FalseFlag
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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I have no idea how many people have read this thread, but I found something pretty big.
Of course the wingnuts on that forum are going crazy trying to say I'm wrong, but I think I'm right.
If you want to see the beginning of the discussion, go here - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10894982&po stcount=233
I really would like other opinions, but so far I am only getting one side.
The images in Cheney's office ARE staged, and I believe I accidentally proved it, and not just by the differences in the appearance of "Mary".
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