Russian SU-24 shot down over Syria by Turkish ISIS backers

[conspiracy analyst]

Video allegedly shows dead Russian pilot surrounded by armed rebels in Syria (GRAPHIC)
Published time: 24 Nov, 2015 11:14
https://www.rt.com/news/323237-video-dead-russian-pilot/

The video posted online shows armed men around an alleged Russian pilot who seems to be unconscious and immobile. His face is bruised and bloodied. The men seem to be happy and are praising Allah, with some regretting that they hadn’t burned him on the spot.
READ MORE: Turkey backstabbed Russia by downing the Russian warplane - Putin


Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9UJcX_UVB0

"A Russian pilot," a voice is heard saying as a group of men gather around him. "God is great," a voice says.

[fish5133]

spiralling out of control-----and not just the plane

[outsider]

‘How did it happen in real life?’ Russian pilot’s first interview after surviving Su-24 crash:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8lLfNZ5nvE&feature=em-uploademail

I believe it was a deliberate US-planned attack by Turkey (just as MH17 was a deliberate pre-planned attack by Ukraine, I believe also at US instigation); Turkey would not take such a step by itself (it's MIT 'Security Service' was created by the CIA, and they obviously would not lose their grip on it after creating it, any more than they did with OBL and the Mujahideen, or ISIS/IS.
They also, I believe, control the Turkish military; three military coups, spearheaded by Gladio forces, created waves of extreme repression and brutality, which is still just under the surface, and shows it's ugly head every now and again against the Kurds.
One of the downed Russian bomber pilots survived, hid out, and was rescued by Syrian Special Forces, and says no warnings whatsoever were given, but the Turks have 'recordings' of the warnings. Well, as anyone should be able to figure out, it is extremely easy to make a recording; the proof would be if it was picked up in real time by any Russian or other aircraft or forces in the vicinity (or even by satellite).

Turkish and 'Coalition' forces regularly invade Syrian airspace, which is totally illegal, and arguably the supreme war crime, a 'Crime Against Peace'. Russia's attacks in Syria are legal, at the request of a sovereign government, Assad's Syria.

All the Western and assorted scumbag accomplices of the West's totally illegal 'Regime Change' agenda are War Criminals, pure and simple (actually they themselves are neither 'pure' nor 'simple'; they are Luciferian, and Machiavellian.

[Whitehall_Bin_Men]

Great quotes
But am I right in thinking these are both from you, Outsider, not the Russian pilot?

[Whitehall_Bin_Men]

Russia 'playing with fire', warns Turkey, as Moscow imposes visa regime
Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan steps up the war of words after Russia’s latest retaliatory measures in the wake of the downing of its fighter jet
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/27/russia-introduces-visa-re gime-for-turkish-citizens

[outsider]

[outsider]

'Was The U.S. Involved In The Turkish Attack Against The Russian Jet?':
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/11/the-context-of-yesterdays-turkish -attack-against-the-russian-jet.html

'Erdogan criticized Syria harshly on Tuesday for shooting down the Turkish fighter jet, saying: "Even if the plane was in their airspace for a few seconds, that is no excuse to attack."
"It was clear that this plane was not an aggressive plane. Still it was shot down," he said.Turkey hardens military position after Syria downs jet June 27, 2012

A violation of one to two kilometers is accepted as "natural" given the speed of aircraft, the statement [by the the General Staff] said. This year's violations of Turkish airspace lasted between 20 seconds and nine minutes, which showed "airspace violations can be resolved by warning and interceptions," the statement said.
Turkey could have downed 114 planes for airspace violations: Army June 25, 2012

Turkish fighter jets and military helicopters have dramatically increased their incursions into Greek airspace, according to a study based on data from the Greek military, forcing the cash-strapped Greek air force to respond.
Turkey buzzes weakened Greece - In growing numbers Ankara’s fighter jets test Greek territorial claims. - July 23, 2015

Turkey also regularly violates Iraq's airspace by flying bombing attacks against Kurds in north Iraq.

All this provides that yesterday's incident in which Turkey shot down a Russian jet was not a case of an ordinary airspace violation but a deliberate act to take down a Russian plane. The surviving co-pilot of the Russian jet insists that it neither flew through Turkish airspace nor was warned of an imminent attack. As I wrote yesterday:

This then was not legitimate air-defense but an ambush.

I am not the only one who came to that conclusion. Deep inside a McClatchy piece a "western" diplomat sees it as an "orchestrated" event:

One Western diplomat based in Iraq, but with extensive experience in Syria and Turkey, called the incident “brazenly orchestrated and inevitable,” but asked that the identification of his country not be used in the statement.

The Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov also came to that conclusion:

The downing of a Russian warplane in Syria by Turkey appears to be a pre-planned provocation, the Russian Foreign Minister said. Ankara failed to communicate with Russia over the incident, he added.
“We have serious doubts that this act was unintentional. It looks very much like a preplanned provocation,” Lavrov said, citing Turkey’s failure to maintain proper communication with Russia, the abundance of footage of the incident and other evidence.

Several NATO ambassadors will have had the same though when they admonished Ankara over the act:

"There are other ways of dealing with these kinds of incidents," said one diplomat who declined to be named.

The attack on the Russian plane was preconceived on November 22 when a security summit was held with the Turkish government under Prime Minister Davutoğlu and the Turkish Armed Forces. Davutoğlu personally gave the order to shoot down Russian planes. This, Turkey says, was necessary to stop Russian bombing of "Turkmen" in north Syria's Latakia near the Turkish border.

Many of the "Syrian Turkmen" fighting against the Syrian people are from Central Asia and part of the terrorist groups of Jabhat al-Nusra, Ansar Al Sham, Jabhat Ansar Ad Din and Ahrar al Sham. Uighurs smuggled in from China and fighting under the "Turkistan Islamist Party" label even advertise their ‘little jihadists’ children training camps in the area. The few real Syrian Turkmen work, as even the BBC admits, together with al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups. Their leader and spokesman, one Alparslan Celik, is a Turkish citizen from Elazığ.

The Turkish claim of defending "Turkmen" in Syria is a sham. It is defending mostly foreign Islamist terrorists.

Whoever planned the ambush on the Russian jet miscalculated the reaction. NATO will not come to Turkey's help over this or the next such incident. NATO countries know that the Russian plane was hit within Syria. Russia will not be scared into drawing back. Instead it massively increased the bombing of targets in that area:

At least 12 air strikes hit Latakia's northern countryside as pro-government forces clashed with fighters from al Qaeda's Nusra Front and Turkmen insurgents in the Jabal Akrad and Jabal Turkman areas, the British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.
A Turkmen commander said missiles fired from Russian warships in the Mediterranean were also hitting the area, as well as heavy artillery shelling.

Russian jets also bombed insurgency supply trucks (video) in al-Qaeda controlled Azaz, north of Aleppo and just some two kilometers from the Turkish border. They also bombed the Bab al-Hawa border crossing to Turkey. That is a big FU to Erdogan.

The Russian missile cruiser Moskva with its extensive air defense systems is now covering the area. Russia will officially deploy two S-400 air defense systems to cover all of north-west Syria and southern Turkey. Russia also has lots of electronic wizardry it can (and will) apply. The preparation of additional airfields is ongoing. There will be no outward military revenge against Turkey unless it crosses into Syria. The "safe zone" within Syria Erdogan dreams of would have to be won by defeating Russian forces.

The 4.5 million Russian tourists who visited Turkey this year will not come again. Turkish business in Russia, mostly in the building industry and agricultural products, will shrink to nearly zero. That the scheming to take down a Russian air plane may have negative consequences for Turkey suddenly also dawned to Davutoğlu who now pretends that we wants to make nice again:

Turkey is not aiming to escalate tension with Russia, Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu said Nov. 25, echoing President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan following the downing of a SU-24 Russian jet the previous day.
“Russia is our friend and neighbor. Our bilateral communication channels are open. But our security, as for every friendly country, should be based on the principle of respect under international law. It’s normal to protect our national airspace,” Davutoğlu said, addressing party members in parliament.

And it is normal for Russia to defend its ally Syria. Against all enemies. By all means.

But back to Turkey's motive. The way this is played one might believe that this was a indeed a lonely Turkish idea to defend its immediate interests in Syria - the "Turkmen" as well as the oil business Erdogan's son has with the Islamic State.

But there is also a bigger game going on and it is likely that Erdogan has a new contract and Obama's backing for this escalation. James Winnefeld, the deputy chief of General Staff of the U.S. military, was in Ankara when the incident happened. The cooperation between U.S. and Turkish military and especially the air forces is quite tight. It is hard to believe that there was no communication about what was prepared to happen.

After the Islamic State attack in France President Hollande attempted to create a global coalition against IS which would include Russia and Iran as well as the U.S. led anti-ISIS block. But such a coalition, which makes a lot of sense, would have to agree to leave Syria alone and to help Syrian ground forces to effectively fight the Islamic State. It does not make sense to destroy the Syrian state and to just hope that the outcome would be something better than an emboldened IS or AlQaeda ruling in Damascus. That outcome is certainly not in Europe's interest. But a global coalition is not in U.S. or Turkish interests. It would end their common plans and efforts to overthrow the Syrian government and to install a "Sunni" state in Syria and Iraq as a Turkish protectorate.

The Russian jet incident decreased the likelihood of such a coalition. Holland, visiting Washington yesterday, had to pull back with his plan and was again degraded to parrot Obama's "Assad must go" nonsense. Obama feels emboldened and now pushes to widen the conflict in Syria:

The Obama administration is using the current moment of extreme anger and anxiety in Europe to press allies for sharp increases in their contributions to the fight against the Islamic State. Suggestions include more strike aircraft, more intelligence-sharing, more training and equipment for local fighters, and deployment of their own special operations ­forces.
...
While new contributions would be added to anti-Islamic State campaigns across the board, the attention is clearly on Syria, marking a shift in what began as an “Iraq first” focus when Obama authorized airstrikes in the region last fall.
...
Obama, speaking beside Hollande on Tuesday, restated his insistence that Assad is part of the problem, not the solution, and that he must go.

The Obama administration is also preparing to install the Turkish dream of a "safe zone" between Aleppo and the Turkish border north of it.

Among several coalition priorities in Syria, the United States has begun a series of airstrikes in an area known as the “Mar’a line,” named for a town north of Aleppo in the northwest. There, a 60-mile stretch to the Euphrates River in the east is the only remaining part of the Syria-Turkey border under Islamic State control.
The administration had delayed beginning operations in the area because U.S. aircraft were needed in operations farther east, and it has been uncertain that local opposition forces­ would be able to hold the territory if it could be cleared with airstrikes.

The increased Russian air defense and the likely increase of its deployed planes will make those "safe zone" plans impossible.

But Obama, in my conclusion, still wants to drag NATO into Syria and wants to assemble enough forces "against ISIS" to be able to overwhelm the Syrian government and its Russian protectors. If that does not work he at least hopes to give Russia the Afghanistan like "quagmire" in Syria he and other U.S. officials promised. The again increasing tensions with U.S. proxy Ukraine only help in that regard.

But there is even more to that plan. Just by chance (not) the NYT op-ed pages launch a trial balloon today for the creation of a Sunni state in east Syria and west Iraq. But that (Islamic) State is already there and the "containment" strategy Obama practices towards it guarantees that it will fester.

Obama continues his immensely destructive policies in the Middle East with zero regard to the all the bad outcomes these are likely to have for the people there as well as for Europe. One again wonders if all these action follow from sheer incompetence or from some devilish, ingenious strategic planning.'
Posted by b on November 25, 2015 at 10:26 AM | Permalink

If I was a 'conspiracy theorist', I would suspect that the fact 'James Winnefeld, the deputy chief of General Staff of the U.S. military, was in Ankara when the incident happened...' was not a coincidence.


And: 'PBS NewsHour Uses Russian Airstrike Footage While Claiming U.S. Airstrike Successes':
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/11/pbs-uses-russian-airstrike-videos -to-claim-us-airstrike-successes.html

'......I have found no video of U.S. hits on Islamic State oil tanker assemblies.

The U.S. PBS NewsHour did not find any either.

In their TV report yesterday about Islamic State financing and the claimed U.S. hits on oil trucks they used the videos Russia provided without revealing the source. You can see the Russian videos played within an interview with a U.S. military spokesperson at 2:22 min.

The U.S. military spokesperson speaks on camera about U.S. airforce hits against the Islamic State. The video cuts to footage taken by Russian airplanes hitting oil tanks and then trucks. The voice-over while showing the Russian video with the Russians blowing up trucks says: "For the first time the U.S. is attacking oil delivery trucks." The video then cuts back to the U.S. military spokesperson.

At no point is the Russian campaign mentioned or the source of the footage revealed.

Any average viewer of the PBS report will assume that the black and white explosions of oil trucks and tanks are from of U.S. airstrikes filmed by U.S. air force planes.

The U.S. military itself admitted that its strikes on IS oil infrastructure over the last year were "minimally effective". One wonders then how effective the claimed strike against 116 trucks really was. But unless we have U.S. video of such strikes and not copies of Russian strike video fraudulently passed off as U.S. strikes we will not know if those strikes happened at all.

Propaganda and reality also collide in the larger U.S. policy on Syria. President Obama claims that the "overwhelming majority of people in Syria" want the Syrian President Assad to leave. But independent British polling in Syria found (pdf) that a strong plurality of Syrians prefers him as president over any of the available alternatives......'

[outsider]

Mountain Ambush Renowned American Military Expert Explains How Turkey Ambushed Russia's Su-24:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43681.htm

'....On November 24, a Turkish F-16 fighter jet shot down a Russian Su-24 bomber near the border of Turkey and Syria. In the immediate aftermath, officials from the two countries offered contradictory versions of what transpired: Russian president Vladimir Putin claimed that the plane was flying over Syrian territory when it was downed; Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan countered that it was inside Turkey’s border and had been warned ten times to alter its course. Hours later, President Obama threw his support behind Erdogan. “Turkey,” he said, “has a right to defend its territory and its airspace.”

I asked Pierre Sprey, a longtime defense analyst and member of the team that developed the F-16, to examine what we know about the downing and determine what actually occurred that morning.

The Russians have claimed the November 24 downing of their bomber was a deliberate pre-planned ambush by the Turks. Is there any merit in that argument?

Looking at the detailed Russian timeline of what happened—as well as the much less detailed Turkish radar maps—I’d say the evidence looks pretty strong that the Turks were setting up an ambush. They certainly weren’t doing anything that would point to a routine air patrol along the border. Their actions in no way represented a routine, all day long type of patrol.

How can we tell that?

Well, let’s set up the situation and it’ll be a little easier to understand. The Russian pilots were assigned a target very close to the Turkish border, about ten miles in from the Mediterranean coast and about five miles south of an important border crossing at a little place called Yayladagi. That’s a border crossing that the Turks have used to slip jihadists into Syria, or to allow them to slip in. It’s also a place where there’s quite a bit of truck traffic, a fair amount of it probably oil tankers. It’s the only crossing for many, many miles around. This is a pretty sparsely populated, well forested and hilly area occupied by Turkmen—Turkish speaking Syrian tribesmen who are sympathetic to al-Nusra and the Islamic State, who harbor Chechen terrorists and who we know have been supported by the Turks.

The target area the Russians were interested in was about five miles south, along the road leading to this crossing. That was the target area that they assigned to these two Su-24s on the day of the shoot-down. The crews were assigned the mission at about 9:15 in the morning, Moscow time. They took off about a half hour later, headed for an area about thirty miles inland from the Mediterranean coast—in other words well east of this target area—to loiter until they got further instructions on hitting a target in the target area. At this point they’re just cruising and loitering at eighteen thousand, nineteen thousand feet, trying to conserve gas while they’re waiting to be assigned a specific target.

The flight to their holding area was very short, because they were flying out of a Russian base south of Latakia. It was like a ten-minute flight. They were only about thirty miles away or so. After they reached their loiter area—at roughly a quarter to ten—they were well in view of Turkish radar coverage because they were up high and not far from the border, roughly sixteen miles south.

They got assigned their target, which was the road south of this important border crossing, and executed a first strike, each of them attacking separate targets at about a quarter after ten. They then made a U-turn, so to speak, to follow a racetrack pattern back toward where they had been loitering to get ready for a second attack. They in fact executed the second attack about seven or eight minutes later. One of the two Su-24s hit its target right at about ten twenty-four and was almost immediately shot down as he was pulling off the target.

What about the Turkish air force, what were they doing meanwhile?

The Turks had launched two F-16s quite a bit earlier than the time we’re talking about, from Diyarbakir, a major base for the Turkish Air Force about two hundred and fifty miles away, to loiter just in from the Mediterranean over a mountainous area that was about twenty-five miles north of this border crossing. Interestingly, they arrived in that area to loiter just about the time that the Russian pilots were being assigned their targets, and the F-16s loitered over that mountainous area for about an hour and fifteen minutes.

Here’s the crucial thing. They were not loitering up at high altitude—say twenty to thirty thousand feet—to conserve fuel, which is where you would normally be loitering if you were simply doing a routine border patrol. They were loitering quite low, at about seven thousand five hundred to eight thousand feet, which, first of all, is below the coverage of the Syrian and Russian radars that were down around Latakia, and which is a very fuel-inefficient altitude to loiter. You suck up a lot of gas down at those low altitudes.

That tells you right away, if they hung out there for seventy-five minutes, they must’ve been tanked on the way in to that mission, because they were quite far from their home base—two hundred and fifty miles—so they must’ve topped up on fuel to have enough to even last for an hour and a quarter at this inefficient low altitude. The Turkish Air Force does have a number of American tankers that they own, so they certainly could’ve and almost beyond a shadow of a doubt did tank these F-16s before this whole engagement.....'


It's worth noting that as well as obviously having good communications with the Turks, they also have planes and personnel at the home base of the F16's:

USAF deploys aircraft and airmen in Turkey’s Diyarbakir Air Base:
http://www.airforce-technology.com/news/newsusaf-deploys-aircraft-and- airmen-in-turkeys-diyarbakir-air-base-4687540


'The Radar Recordings of the Turkish Attack on the Russian Su-24':
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43682.htm

'....A control analysis of the on-target results, corroborated by the radar network which surveys Syrian air-space, revealed the presence of the two Turkish F-16’s, between 09.08 a.m. and 10.29 a.m., flying at an altitude of 4,200 metres over the Turkish region of Hatay, on the border with Syria. The Turkish planes had taken off at 08.40 a.m., and landed at 11.00 a.m.

The time necessary for the jets to start their motors and take off from the air base at Diyarbakir and reach their service zone, situated at 410 kilometres from their base, shows that the two Turkish F-16’s had received their orders one hour before the Russian bombers took off. This in turn proves that the two Turkish pilots knew that they would be engaging Russian Su-24’s and were aware of the details of the bombers’ mission, so that they were prepared for their action and were able to position themselves to shoot down the Russian plane to make it appear that the Russians had entered Turkish air-space. They had therefore received orders not to apply the procedure described in the international treaties, which Turkey has signed, in other words interception, followed by visual contact, a warning shot with the on-board cannon, and then, if necessary, destruction.

According to General Viktor Bondarev, the Su-24 bomber had maintained a distance of more than 5 kilometres from the Turko-Syrian border throughout the whole flight, before entering the area in which the Turkish F-16 could fire its heat-seeking air-to-air missile, which flew almost perpendicular to the direction of the Su-24’s. The Turkish plane made a 110-degree turn lasting 1 minute and 40 seconds in order to fire and hit the rear of the Russian bomber. Because of this turn, the Turkish F-16 penetrated two kilometres into Syrian air-space, where it remained for 40 seconds, while the Su-24 only penetrated Turkish air-space for 17 seconds. This was enough for the F-16 to be detected by the radar screens at the Hmeymim air base after the attack, during which it dived to below 2,500 metres.

The turn manœuvre positioned the F-16 from 5 to 7 kilometres behind one of the Russian Su-24 bombers, with an approach speed which enabled the firing of the missile. After the attack, there was no recorded radio contact, either from the pilots or the Turkish command, including the channel which was specially designed for co-operative contact.

Bondarev’s conclusion is that the Turkish pilots had spent several weeks training specifically to shoot down a Russian bomber on their border with Syria, and that the final details of the ambush had been carefully refined by the Turks - probably with their NATO allies – during the 12 hours which had followed the arrival of the information sent by the Russians before take-off.

Valentin Vasilescu


Given the sensitivity of the operation, it occurred to me it might have been a US pilot, not a Turk, flying the F16 (I know Turkey and the Turkish pilot have taken the 'credit' for the shoot-down) as Americans will have much more expertise, and the absolute necessity to make sure there were no 'mishaps' may have called for a Yank...just a thought.

[outsider]

Had anyone noticed this mind-blowing information?

'Turkey’s Blockade of Russian Naval Vessels’ Access to the Mediterranean, Russia’s Black Sea Fleet Completely Cut Off':
http://www.globalresearch.ca/turkeys-blockade-of-russian-naval-vessels -access-to-the-mediterranean-russias-black-sea-fleet-completely-cut-of f/5492688

And Russia mobilising 150,000 troops to send to Syria?

Where has this important news appeared in the MSM?