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nrmis
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 Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:11 pm Post subject: EU Referendum Straw Poll |
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EU Referendum Straw Poll - Do Your Own - COPY & PASTE THIS POST
Amongst the people you know (personally, facebook etc) that have expressed an opinion as to which way they will vote, if you counted them up, which way would the vote go?
In
Out
Just In
Just Out
Close (too close to call)
I'm interested to know whether the markets bear close resemblance to reality.
No interest in personal opinion of the political issue or your personal vote on it in this thread. Thanks. |
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fish5133
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Most I know say out. A poll on a local forum was over 60% out
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"for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world, against wicked spirits in high places " Eph.6 v 12 |
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TonyGosling
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nrmis
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks Tony but the post I made was to count the general consensus among people you know (who have expressed an opinion as to which way they will vote), avoiding personal opinion and personal votes. |
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nrmis
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Can you remove the poll or delete the thread please Tony?
For my future reference, is the poll the reason that this topic doesn't show up in 'latest posts'? |
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nrmis
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| POLL REMOVED. Thanks Tony. |
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TonyGosling
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Subject: BREXIT - an opinion
Whilst most of the debate over the European referendum concentrates on the economic advantages and disadvantages of staying or leaving, regardless of whether leaving makes us better or worse off a far more important argument, it could be said, is that which pertains to the defence of our values as people on both a collective and individual level so personally I feel moved to contribute a few words on the subject just in case someone may find them of interest;
My Grandparents fought in World War Two because, we were told, Europe and the world faced a clear and present danger which was called fascism.
After that war, and certainly during my childhood, we lived with the spectre of the Cold War and the fear of communist domination.
In both cases people made great sacrifices in order to protect us from totalitarian forms of government so that we could maintain the freedoms that we cherish and that are the fundamental ingredients of our values and traditions.
Now whether you believe that those values enshrined by the words Freedom and Democracy are truly being upheld by our national government or not, the fact is that if we analyse the way that the EU is organised and run then you can see that it is nothing short of the imposition of a TOTALITARIAN STATE by the back door so to speak.
You can call it fascist or you can call it communist, it really makes very little difference, the bare facts are that it is certainly not democratic and it is, indeed, most decidedly ANTI-DEMOCRATIC.
Legions of Eurocrats that have not be elected and that are not accountable are paid by our taxes to run a complex network of institutions, commissions, councils and so on without being exposed to public scrutiny and from whence they emit scores of laws and regulations that affect our everyday lives and we are not able to do anything about it.
This is - and there is no other word for it - a dictatorship, that evokes the worst nightmares of our childhood when, whilst at school we read, Animal Farm, 1984 and Brave New World.
If we do not take a stand against it then we are, in effect, betraying the legacy left by all those people, men and women of Britain and throughout Europe whose names we see listed throughout the country on war memorials as evidence that they gave their lives in the belief that they were defending our FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY.
The plain facts are that ever since then with the gradual implementation of a globalised system of what is called government but could also perhaps be termed POPULATION MANAGEMENT in which normal people are treated ever more like objects and numbers on corporate flow charts, we are seeing before our eyes the institutionalised BETRAYAL of the ideals that previous generations fought and died for.
There are numerous politicians of the ilk of Tony Blair, David Cameron and so on who have rallied our troops in the name of Freedom and Democracy in order, so we are told, to protect the freedom and democracy of other countries in other parts of the globe (so they say) whilst at the same time encouraging us to vote our freedoms away and give our sovereignty on a plate to unelected Eurocrats.
Can we really continue to believe in this class of people and the causes that they say they stand for when they behave with such blatant hypocrisy?
Truly it is time that we, the people, the everyday normal people that work hard all our lives and pay our taxes to stand up and be counted.
These politicians that trade and negotiate with our hard won values and freedoms are, without any exaggeration committing acts of HIGH TREASON.
We, the people of Britain must not stand idle whilst such acts of despicable knavery are committed.
It is time to take a stand and this stand should start with a vote to LEAVE the EU, but that is not the end, in fact it will most likely only be the beginning, for the systems of people management implemented by the EU also dominate our national government in which the much trumpeted private public partnerships lead to corporate management of State and public affairs (fascism by any other name) and, indeed techniques of State management that resemble Soviet era styles of government (communism).
As was said before, really there is very little difference.
Our forefathers were strong in defending their freedoms, the question is whether we, in the 21st century are still strong enough to stand up and be counted.
Yours sincerely,
Chris Pothecary.
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Whitehall_Bin_Men
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TonyGosling
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Andy Thomas
Leaving the EU may mean uncertainty and financial compromise for a time. But maybe that is the mission we have to set ourselves on. With enough willpower, we could deal with any situation that arises, as we have always done, and come out stronger for it. Why are we being encouraged to forget this? Sometimes we have to let go of our fear and do the right thing. One of my first jobs was in a soulless office. It was safe and predictable; yet I wasn’t happy and the feeling of discomfort grew. In the end, against the advice of a number of friends and family, I decided to leave for an uncertain career as a musician, with far less money and no security… it was a risk, but in my heart I knew it was right. In the end I made it work, and new and different life paths and opportunities appeared along the way.
Right now, the fear-based draw to stay in the EU feels like clinging to the known river edge. We need to find the courage to let go and flow with a new tide. We’ll learn to swim along the way, and in time manage by ourselves to sort out some of the darker issues and influences we will certainly be left to deal with. At least we can vote out those politicians we are not happy with, for all the systemic improvements still required. This is not so in the EU. If the EU was an angelic bastion of democracy and vision that would serve all its peoples to the highest aspirations and respect the individuality of its nations then I would be voting to remain within it. As it stands it falls far short of this dream. Some of those devoted to EU membership, displaying admirable idealism, somehow seem not to see this. For me, though, until the time that real reform creates a better version of Europe, I believe that Britain should hold to the democratic framework it has painstakingly built up, stand alone and rediscover its not insignificant strengths. This, at least, is the basis on which I will vote on 23rd June.
http://truthagenda.org/2016/05/23/new-article-eu-or-not-eu-reasoning-t he-issues/
_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
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www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/ |
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TonyGosling
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item8
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Posts: 974
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | October 24, 2019
Brexit has challenged the comfort and authority of the Establishment
Austin Mitchell Written by
Austin Mitchell was Labour MP for Great Grimsby between 1977 and 2015.
I’ve always thought of the Establishment as a vague but useful description for the clusters at the top of the tree in politics and society: those who have the power to shape our ordinary lives rough hew them how we may; paternalist chaps and chappesses rather like the eighteenth century aristocracy, but a bit more meritocratic these days – the essence of Britishness. Brexit has shown how wrong I was. It would challenge their comfort and authority, so the Establishment decided to try and stop the ignorant peasantry pulling us out. The Supreme Court abandoned impartiality and went into politics, Parliament used every dodge to stop Brexit, the Speaker fiddled the rules, the Royal Corps of Pundits condemned it, and the Treasury and the Bank of England exuded exaggerated fears. The whole gang sang the praises of the EU as a great venture in peace and internationalism rather than the failing protectionist bloc it really is. They ignored the economic consequences of Europe for the rest of us. The Treasury and the Bank used ‘rubbish in, rubbish out’ models to create fear, blaming the disastrous consequences of austerity on Brexit. They ignored the disastrous consequences for the plebs of staying in. So one-sided. The costs of membership are known, their fears totally hypothetical but they knew that any realistic assessment would have revealed that the EU is a racket run at Britain’s expense, a system bonding national elites together to ignore the people. The EU was created to boost France and Germany by creating a protected market for their agriculture and industries. That doesn’t suit us because it cuts us off from cheaper food and cheaper manufactures, checks attempts to rebuild British production and turns us into Europe’s consumer of last resort to keep their economies growing. That’s why they won’t talk about the scale of the drain. Its basic part is the £11 billion annual contribution which has risen inexorably despite Cameron’s promise to freeze it and has way to go. They scoffed at the £350 million a week claim on the Leave bus, but it should be higher. We pay more across across the exchanges and though they do graciously give us some of our money back, they take a big cut to cover their inflated costs and build marble palaces in Brussels. It’s also the smallest part of the damage. Leaving out the cost of lost fish and processing from the Common Fisheries Policy, the Common Agricultural Policy costs some £15 per family per week, because we are compelled to buy dearer European food rather than the cheaper edibles available on world markets, particularly from developing countries which need the money. Then there’s the trade deficit, now risen to £100 billion a year in visible trade, where we had a surplus with the EU before we went in. There is a surplus in invisibles but deficits in the visibles are lost jobs and profits and a loss of demand to keep the economy growing. That loss is greater than the figures because so many companies seize the opportunity of EU regulations to report their profits in Luxembourg or Dublin and evade British taxes. Britain can no longer pay its way. Because it imports more than it produces it must borrow or sell assets to keep buying. This is a country for sale which means loss of control, loss of profits, loss of jobs and companies turning Britain into an exploited dependency, its companies managed for the interests of others. We’re well on the way down the path. Continued membership of the EU will take us further. That’s the future the EU offers Britain. It hits the workers by immigration, job insecurity, static earnings and less investment. But it doesn’t disturb the comfort of the Establishment presiding over it. They’re still free to buy houses, farms, property and yachts overseas. |
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item8
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 974
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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https://brexitcentral.com/brexit-has-challenged-the-comfort-and-author ity-of-the-establishment/
| Quote: | October 24, 2019
Brexit has challenged the comfort and authority of the Establishment
Austin Mitchell Written by
Austin Mitchell was Labour MP for Great Grimsby between 1977 and 2015.
I’ve always thought of the Establishment as a vague but useful description for the clusters at the top of the tree in politics and society: those who have the power to shape our ordinary lives rough hew them how we may; paternalist chaps and chappesses rather like the eighteenth century aristocracy, but a bit more meritocratic these days – the essence of Britishness. Brexit has shown how wrong I was. It would challenge their comfort and authority, so the Establishment decided to try and stop the ignorant peasantry pulling us out. The Supreme Court abandoned impartiality and went into politics, Parliament used every dodge to stop Brexit, the Speaker fiddled the rules, the Royal Corps of Pundits condemned it, and the Treasury and the Bank of England exuded exaggerated fears. The whole gang sang the praises of the EU as a great venture in peace and internationalism rather than the failing protectionist bloc it really is. They ignored the economic consequences of Europe for the rest of us. The Treasury and the Bank used ‘rubbish in, rubbish out’ models to create fear, blaming the disastrous consequences of austerity on Brexit. They ignored the disastrous consequences for the plebs of staying in. So one-sided. The costs of membership are known, their fears totally hypothetical but they knew that any realistic assessment would have revealed that the EU is a racket run at Britain’s expense, a system bonding national elites together to ignore the people. The EU was created to boost France and Germany by creating a protected market for their agriculture and industries. That doesn’t suit us because it cuts us off from cheaper food and cheaper manufactures, checks attempts to rebuild British production and turns us into Europe’s consumer of last resort to keep their economies growing. That’s why they won’t talk about the scale of the drain. Its basic part is the £11 billion annual contribution which has risen inexorably despite Cameron’s promise to freeze it and has way to go. They scoffed at the £350 million a week claim on the Leave bus, but it should be higher. We pay more across across the exchanges and though they do graciously give us some of our money back, they take a big cut to cover their inflated costs and build marble palaces in Brussels. It’s also the smallest part of the damage. Leaving out the cost of lost fish and processing from the Common Fisheries Policy, the Common Agricultural Policy costs some £15 per family per week, because we are compelled to buy dearer European food rather than the cheaper edibles available on world markets, particularly from developing countries which need the money. Then there’s the trade deficit, now risen to £100 billion a year in visible trade, where we had a surplus with the EU before we went in. There is a surplus in invisibles but deficits in the visibles are lost jobs and profits and a loss of demand to keep the economy growing. That loss is greater than the figures because so many companies seize the opportunity of EU regulations to report their profits in Luxembourg or Dublin and evade British taxes. Britain can no longer pay its way. Because it imports more than it produces it must borrow or sell assets to keep buying. This is a country for sale which means loss of control, loss of profits, loss of jobs and companies turning Britain into an exploited dependency, its companies managed for the interests of others. We’re well on the way down the path. Continued membership of the EU will take us further. That’s the future the EU offers Britain. It hits the workers by immigration, job insecurity, static earnings and less investment. But it doesn’t disturb the comfort of the Establishment presiding over it. They’re still free to buy houses, farms, property and yachts overseas. |
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