Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 3:30 pm Post subject: Tue 3rd May 2016 -MH17 BBC Conspiracy Files
TonyGosling wrote:
The documentary, Conspiracy Files: Who Shot Down MH17? Will be aired on BBC Two on Tuesday May 3 at 9pm
Who Shot Down MH17?
The Conspiracy Files
When Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, killing all 298 passengers and crew, a storm of conspiracy theories was unleashed across social media. While the official inquiries have pointed the finger of blame at separatist fighters and their Russian backers, a host of different theories claim the Ukrainian government, and even the CIA, were to blame.
With revealing eyewitness testimonies, satellite photographs, wire taps, clandestine videos and expert evidence, Conspiracy Files tries to sort the fact from the fiction. In a world where the information war fought online can be just as significant as battles on the ground, this film also analyses the role of the Kremlin in the search for the truth about who shot down MH17.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0791ns4
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BBC censor their own MH17 eyewitness report https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgCuewzapnc
BUSTED! Deleted BBC Video Report Reveals Multiple Witnesses Saw Fighter Jets Shoot Down MH17! PressResetRadio PressResetRadio Subscribe Add to Share More 28,441 v
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Martin Van Creveld: Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."
Martin Van Creveld: I'll quote Henry Kissinger: "In campaigns like this the antiterror forces lose, because they don't win, and the rebels win by not losing."
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 44 Location: Brisbane Australia
Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 6:33 am Post subject:
Tony, those of us in this part of the world haven't had the BBC program shown here yet, although if it follows the "Russians did it" meme then the ABC will surely show it. They have consistently refused to acknowledge any evidence to the contrary, thereby upholding a long Australian tradition of repeating the official BS ad nauseum and censoring any alternative views. If you followed the ABC you would still think that Oswald was the lone nut gunman and two aeroplanes could get three towers to fall at free fall speed.
Because there may be a delay before this documentary is inflicted upon us can you give a synopsis of their argument please?
BBC relied heavily on a website called bellingcat and some guy from Jane's Defense weekly (regarding the capability and characteristics of planes and BUK missiles). If his work can be discredited, the programme can be discredited (and visa versa)
Although the BBC acknowledged his lack of technical / military background, this didn't seem to undermine the credibility of his opinion in the BBC's eyes. Not that I think a lack of relevant background should exclude people from investigating crimes and being taken seriously. I just remember in the past the opinion of 'conspiracy theorists' TM has been attacked because they lack relevant background.
McGovern suggested a likely scenario was a bomb placed on the plane at Schipol (by US/Dutch intelligence agencies). This was dismissed by CF because they claim the wreckage showed the explosion pushed the fuselage inwards and not outwards. Is this true?
Another piece of evidence used was examples of butterfly shaped shrapnel that allegedly could only come from a BUK. This was challenged.
Another issue for me is the sheer hypocrisy of western media and politicians
The conclusion of CF was clear: Russia is responsible. But it also acknowledged that this was (in its opinion) an accident. No one meant to shoot down a civilian airliner.
When Russia (allegedly) makes a mistake, this results in sanctions and endless demonisation
Barry Sweeney, father of Liam SweeneyBarry Sweeney, father of Liam Sweeney
How flight MH17 came to be blown out the sky killing two devoted Newcastle United fans is not as important as why the tragedy happened, according to Barry Sweeney.
The 54-year-old, who lost his son Liam in the crash, has today reacted to a new documentary which attempts to discover what brought the plane down.
‘Conspiracy Files: Who shot down MH17?’ aired on BBC 2 on Tuesday. The one-hour documentary explored a variety of theories about how the Malaysia Airlines aircraft was blown out the sky over Ukraine on July 17, 2014.
Using eye-witness accounts along with photographic and video evidence, the programme attempts to pick apart various ideas about the tragedy and answer why it has become subject of so much speculation.
But although Barry watched with interest, he believes the BBC investigation did not tell him anything he did not know - or answer his family’s most important question.
He said: “I did watch it and it was interesting, but I don’t think it told us anything new, or prove anything. To me it doesn’t really matter how the plane came down it’s why that is important. Our son was talen from us when he was on the journey of a lifetime.”
Liam, 28, of Westerhope, Newcastle, and 63-year-old John Alder, from Deckham, Gateshead, were travelling to watch their beloved Newcastle United play on a pre-season tour in New Zealand when they boarded the doomed flight.
The lifelong Toon fans were among 298 people killed when the plane came down over Ukraine.
In 2015 the Dutch Safety Board published a report saying the Boeing 777 was destroyed by a Buk surface-to-air missile fired from an area controlled by Russia-backed separatist rebels.
However, the chief of the Russian aviation agency Oleg Storchevoi said that Moscow “categorically disagrees” with the results of the Dutch probe. Since then numerous theories and conspiracies have circulated.
Tuesday’s documentary examined four such theories. Two involving evidence that the plane had been downed by a fighter jet, one that there was no evidence at all that a Buk missile had been used, and another that satellite photographs show a Ukrainian army Buk missile launcher, which could have caused the crash.
Dutch Safety Board/PA WireFlight MH17 which was brought down by a Russian-made missile killing 298 people was one of 160 passenger planes flying over eastern Ukraine, Dutch investigators saidFlight MH17 which was brought down by a Russian-made missile killing 298 people was one of 160 passenger planes flying over eastern Ukraine, Dutch investigators said
And while Barry, from Killingworth, took in all the evidence and witness statements presented in the programme, he still believes the version of events presented in the Dutch report to be the most likely scenario.
“I went to Holland to see the report and I do think what the Dutch said was more feasible,” he said. “I think the Ukrainian witnesses in the documentary were ‘managed’. I’m no expert, but I do believe it was a Buk missile.”
However flight MH17 was brought down, Barry just hopes that it was quick and that the passengers did not know what was happening, which is something that all the theories suggest.
“I believe that nobody suffered,” he continued. “I think Liam, John and the other passengers would of been in a confused state, not like other plane crashes where people would have known they were going to die. I’m 99.9% certain they wouldn’t have known what was going on.”
The Conspiracy Files also discusses why there are so many theories surrounding the MH17 crash and why they seem to be ‘state-sanctioned’.
It looks at claims that President Putin has complete control over the Russian media suggesting it now works like a cult, with non-stop conspiracy theories, designed to confuse and bamboozle Russians making it more difficult for them to think for themselves.
And it is for this reason that Barry fears he may never know why Liam perished.
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 18335 Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 8:27 pm Post subject:
Amusingly, the BBC said they tried to contact the Russian Foreign Ministry, but the ministry refused to give any comments. Zakharova, on the other hand, said this wasn't true.
"For a long time we were in close working contact with the staff at the BBC's Moscow Bureau, we repeatedly gave them interviews, took part in online conversations, met with their journalists at briefings, visited their office, etc. Without an exaggeration one can say that we [the Russian Foreign Ministry] talks with the representatives of BBC a few times a week," Zakharova said.
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 44 Location: Brisbane Australia
Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 11:52 pm Post subject:
There are a number of sites where it is possible to get a more balanced view than is ever likely to emanate from the BBC. A good Dutch site with a generally fair and balanced approach is "What Happened to flight MH17?
http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/
A lot of their material is translated into English for those not able to read Dutch. They provide links to multiple other sites, such as German, Russian and French. Again, it helps to be able to read those languages.
One point in the above comments needs to be corrected. The Dutch Safety Board Report did not say that the missile was fired from rebel held territory. It only narrowed the site down to 320 sq km which it said was "contested". That is one of the most common misrepresentations about the Report.
As is so often the case, the real gems lie not in the reports, but in the Technical appendices that are attached. In the present case, Appendix T is the most relevant. It reports the assessment of multiple Dutch intelligence services about the BUK missiles. Its conclusion, as was that of a separate Dutch Intelligence Report which is almost never referred to in the western media, was the the so-called "rebels" did not have possession of workable BUK missiles; did not have the technical capability to use them even if they did; that there was no motive for the "rebels" to shoot down a civilian airliner; and that there was no evidence that Russian troops were there at that time and with BUK missiles.
Such conclusions are inconvenient for the "Russia did it" brigade which is why the msm do not trouble us with the details.
The only other point I would make here is that at the time of the shoot down there were three US satellites overhead the Donbass region. They know exactly what happened and John Kerry even boasted about it in is NBC interview a few days after the shootdown. I understand from a statement released by Jan Westerbeke, the Dutch head of the Joint Investigation Team that is conducting the criminal inquiry (along with Ukraine, Australia, Malaysia and Belgium) that the US satellite data have been released to the JIT inquiry.
Whether we will ever know about that data given the secret agreement of 8 August 2014
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/mh-17-investigation-secret-augu st-8th-agreement-seeps.html
(which the msm refuse to talk about) is of course a moot point.
That JIT report is due in the "latter half of 2016" according to Westerbeke.
BBC says Russian media wrong to suggest documentary shows MH17 downed by Ukrainian jet
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/25/bbc-says-russian-media-wron g-to-suggest-documentary-shows-mh17-d/
A still from the BBC documentary shows Captain Vladislav Voloshin of the Ukrainian Air Force.
A still from the BBC documentary shows Captain Vladislav Voloshin of the Ukrainian Air Force. CREDIT: BBC
Allison Quinn, moscow
25 APRIL 2016 • 1:40PM
Russia's Kremlin-friendly media have portrayed an forthcoming BBC documentary that debunks MH17 conspiracy theories as proof of its claim that a Ukrainian fighter jet may have downed the plane.
Nearly two years after the catastrophe claimed the lives of 298 people, the film, titled “The Conspiracy Files: Who Shot Down MH17?” and set to air on May 3, promises to delve into alternative versions of events as to who shot down the Boeing over war-torn eastern Ukraine in July 2014.
Kremlin figures and state-run news outlets have claimed it will vindicate Moscow's allegation that Ukraine was responsible, a theory which is dismissed by experts in the programme as unlikely, according to the BBC.
Alexey Pushkov, the Russian State Duma's foreign affairs chief, claimed the film would finally reveal the truth.
In comments on Twitter on Sunday, Mr Pushkov said the film would “get close to the truth about the downed Boeing. The false masks will start to come off.”
Kremlin-run news sites echoed Mr Pushkov's statement, with Vesti, Komsomolskaya Pravda and Sputnik presenting the film as an official verdict: “A Ukrainian fighter jet downed MH17.”
But the BBC said the documentary actually proves this theory, which has been widely rejected by experts, to be wrong. It said “misleading” media coverage had led to a distorted view of the upcoming film, which they say objectively examines all theories regarding MH17.
“Experts in fact tell the programme it was unlikely a Ukrainian fighter jet could have shot down MH17, as they cannot fly at such high altitudes," the BBC's press service told The Telegraph.
"This impartial documentary takes a balanced viewpoint in reporting the competing theories surrounding the fate of MH17, including the evidence for and against those involving Russia, Ukraine and the CIA. It also examines in detail the findings of the official Dutch inquiry into the incident, which provide compelling evidence that the plane was brought down by a powerful ground to air missile.”
MH17: Animation shows effects of impact as part of Dutch investigationPlay! 02:21
The West has consistently blamed pro-Russian separatists using Russian-supplied weapons for the disaster, but the Kremlin has scoffed at such allegations and accused international investigators of political bias. Russia's Defense Ministry has claimed to have proof that a Ukrainian fighter jet was responsible, even offering satellite images to back up the accusation.
The ministry was later accused of having faked this imagery by Bellingcat, a group of citizen journalists who have extensively researched MH17 using open source data and social media.
Nieuwsuur item on MH17 shows BUK and shot down by fighter theory
Posted on October 16, 2014 by admin in
News , The weapon // 2 Comments
Dutch TV program Nieuwsuur on October 16 showed an item on theories which could explain why MH17 was shot down. The program both mentions the theory of a downing by a BUK as well as a shot down by an Ukraine fighter jet.
An expert on cyber security (Pim Takkenberg) explains that it can be tricky to conclude based on evidence found on the internet. Eliot Higgins of the website
Bellingcat did a lot of research on the BUK using sources like Facebook, Twitter and vKontakte. Together with others he was able to reconstruct the route that was taken by the BUK. Also the website
Ukraine@war helped with the reconstruction using geolocation.
The item can be seen here.
The item is partly in Dutch language. From 1 minute 50 seconds the translation is below.
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