GOT THE OFFICIAL FLIGHTPATHS!!!!!!!

[Snowygrouch]

All,
HORAYYY!!!
After waiting for ages I recieved 3 CDROMs from the National Transportation Saftey Board this morning.

After feeling rather gazumped by the prior release of the studies I think I`ve got some new stuff here although there is so much on the CDs it may take me some time to go through it all.

However there are MPEG animations of the planes flightpaths!

Does anyone else have this already?

Anyway I`m so excited im almost gibbering with pleasure

Got to go and delve!

Cheerio

Calum

The screenshot is the flight due to hit the pentagon so I`ll be observing that impossible manuever shortly!

[Snowygrouch]

All,
The first thing I`ve noticed ALREAY is that when the plane is over the motorway before it hit the Altimeter is reading 180 feet!

How exactly did it knock over the light poles if it was nearly 200 feet up?

It also contradicts the Pentagon CCTV which clearly shows the object travelling horizontally as it approaches not diving in from 200 feet up.

I think this is very strong evidence that either the NTSB or the Pentagon VIDEO is faked or manipulated.

Calum

[Andrew Johnson]

Good work!

Haven't you heard of those new expanding and contracting lampposts?

[TRUTH]

Government Releases Detailed Information on 9/11 Crashes


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm

I suppose youve seen this..?

[Snowygrouch]

Truth,
Thanks but I had downloaded all that when some other kind sould posted it here a few days back.

I think this MPEG video is fairly unique though, well obviously someone else in the world MUST have it but so far I havent spotted it anywhere else.

I still havn`t had time to go through it all yet to be honest!

I suspect there are some gold nuggest in there.

Typically enough there is still very little data for Flight 93.

The other point I`ll have to acertain is if the flight 77 data I have is from Radar or Black Box. If its from radar thats VERY odd as officially flight 77 disappered from radar for some time.

Anyway

Cheerio

Calum

[chipmunk stew]

[Snowygrouch]

Hello,
Yes I`m perfectly aware that altimeters use atomspheric pressure and so are above sea level.

However when you look at the MPEG video (as you can see from one frame I screen grabbed) the plane is obviously VISUALLY well above the roof of the pentagon itself when over the light poles.

Can I explain that?

NO

I have no idea if the flight data or the poles are incorrect but they cannot BOTH be correct.

And thats rather the point!

The frame I posted above is a few before the last one where it is really obvious. (as you can see the frame there is 210 feet up).

If you like I can post the final frame later on.

Calum

[The Watcher]

Chipmunk Spew (out of his box) wrote:

[blackcat]

Don't waste your time with him. His next move is to say those altimeters are only accurate to within a hundred feet or some such invention to suit his agenda. The fact these people even dwell here says all you need to know about them. They are attempting to discredit the call for an enquiry which might - just might - bring some truth to light and they clearly do not want this to happen. Anyone who believes the 9/11 inquiry answers the events of that day and explains everything is a traitor or an idiot or both. An enquiry is urgently needed to get to the truth and they fear this. I can only speculate as to why.

[Snowygrouch]

All,
Here is the final frame from the video showing the plane vertically over the position of the poles AND above the roof line of the Pentagon.

The Altitude is 180 feet ASL (above sea level) or about 130 feet above ground if you want to be exact as pointed out by Chip.

I 'aint here to explain it chaps but it looks fricking ODD to me.

Calum

[blackcat]

A 757 is equipped with two kinds of altimeter. The conventional barometric (above sea level) altimeter as well as a Radar Altimeter.

"RADAR ALTIMETER. Unlike a normal altimeter, which shows altitude above SEA LEVEL, the Radar altimeter displays altitude above THE GROUND. "

http://webpages.charter.net/flyian/757-767/capt.htm

These are accurate to within a tiny fraction of a percent of altitude. Does the info you have show the reading of the Radar Altimeter?

[Snowygrouch]

Blackcat,
It is not stated in any of my documentation.

I will need to write to the NTSB to discover this.

May be several weeks before i have an answer on that.

Calum

[freddie]

Alright Calum,

This could be interesting, but until we know what these figures (and thus the whole simulation) are based on, it's meaningless.

The sources of measurements (speed, altitude, flight path etc) must be on the disk - is there a text file?

Peace

[johndoex]

Hi Snowy..

Thanks for posting that. We have the FDR data from the NTSB and are currently analyzing it over at the loose Change forums.

Is it possible you can upload those mpegs to a host for download?

visit loose change site here and register. Im an Admin there. We have set up a specific forum for the FDR. If you register at Loose Change.. i can give you access to that forum

Thanks again for posting this info..

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showforum=19

PM me at Loose Change and let me know your ID. Also put your ID on this thread so i know its you...

[Snowygrouch]

hi Freddie,
I have some stuff on measurements but it will take me hours to go through properly, the data for the flight reports (that is just the text of times, communications etc) was collated from numerous sources of varying accuracy including Primary Radar, Secondary Radar, Black Box data etc all of which are included in making all/part/undisclosed peices of the report.

The thing is this simulation is not a student pissing around effort this is the official NTSB flight crash investigation flight recreation.

I would think if I were making this animation that if I didnt have hard data past a particular point I would NOT run the simulation that far. Hence that the plane stops about 100meters from the wall.

The other data to back up a DIVE from height rather than a dive then come in along the ground is the YOKE positioning which is also included in the DATA. The information goning on in the cockpit display there is fairly comprehensive and collaboratory (I think I just made that word up but I like it)

Seriously if you watch the last minuite of flight it does NOT look like that object buzzing in low on the CCTV frames.

Also why make a model of the Pentagon and paste a raster graphic of the roads on if you are not confident if its accuracy?

Well I dont know for sure now and as I said I`ll be contacting the NTSB again to get confirmation on the data sources.

Unitil then I suppose we wont know 100%.

[Russell Pickering]

Hello,

My name is Russell Pickering. I have the website http://www.pentagonresearch.com/

Congrats on the data.

In our Loose Change forum we are working on the FDR info that we recently received. You can PM me and I can arrange for you to contact the administrator of the private forum on that.

Is there a way for you to upload the data you have so it can be downloaded? Again, if you PM me maybe I can arrange for you to put it on my server if you don't have an option.

I am consulting on a documentary and going to DC next week for some investigation and seeing what you have would be very useful.

In case you are not aware of it, here are some other documents released recently: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm

Thank you!

[Russell Pickering]

I am PMing you back. Sorry I am suffering a little learning curve here with the new tools. lol

[Russell Pickering]

We are doing an analysis of the FDR data we received in the Loose Change forum. The actual data raw off the .cvs file puts the impact at 173 feet above mean sea level. The grass at the Pentagon is approximately 40 feet above MSL. This is confirmed by the survey information I found on the new Pentagon memorial.

The altimeter reading we have is from the pressure altimeter. In the .cvs file we also discovered it had been set appropriately to ambient conditions not too long before the impact.

I talked to an NTSB agent and a private FDR analysis company about this. They say the error of 133 feet is not uncommon in investigations. The thing that will confirm this is the radar altitude data in the FDR that was not extrapolated into the .cvs. We are currently raising money and working with a couple of private companies to get our own data file to see what the data fields they did not publish contain.

There will be more on this later.

Russell