Lets speculate on the towers not having explosives

[scubadiver]

How do explain the following picture?



This isn't a trick question.

[spiv]

Jay Ref has already explained:

"the kinetic energy from the force of tens of thousands of tons of building dropping on and instantly overloading the next floor was equivalent to many tons of tnt going off. "

[Jay Ref]

[chipmunk stew]

Now let's speculate on the towers HAVING explosives. How do you explain the aforementioned picture?

[stateofgrace]

While you speculate about the Towers having explosives in them could you also let us know exactly what type it was?

TNT or Termite?

Oh and how it all got there.

[marky 54]

if you look around the web and actually research the footage of eyewitness accounts of people being interviewed, there are lots of examples of people saying quite clearly and they sound sure to me that they hear explosions. not just people ,but firemen and news reporters to, and from all the major networks like cnn, however these clips where all only played once, why? they seemed to be reporting explosions then as if issued with a command stop reporting the explosions ever since. i suppose some guy took some news footage voiced it over with that persons voice then put the text on the newsreport that says EXPLOSIONS REPORTED. and then made all their mouths move in conjuntion with the words. these people tell a differant story and are ignored and the media will not play these clips which is why you can only find them on web pages. in a court of law these claims would be considered evidence, which is being withheld for no good reason seeing as though theres suppose to be no conspiracy. also these people saying explosions no longer make it a conspiracy theroy, as evidence means something is possible not a theory. if you heard a gunshot but did'nt see anything and someone had been murdered and the police found out that you had heard a gunshot are you suggesting that the police would just simple ignore you and never take what you heard into account, well thats what happened on 9/11. and explosions were heard before the collapses, if eyewitness accounts at the time of the events are nothing then i pity the justice service.

[scubadiver]

Just the reply I was expecting from Jay Ref - hardly defensible.

Were those planes fully loaded with fuel? Given that they were less than half full with passengers, it would hardly have appeared to be a profitable flight, would you agree? Fuel costs money yer know!

[scubadiver]

[spiv]

I think Jay Ref is suffering from a lack of available energy!! Trouble is, I don't think he is sufficiently converse in the principles of physics to fully understand.

And on the principals of physics, another mind experiment to think about. Hold on to the end of an iron bar, let's say a crowbar. Then hold a lighted lighter under the far end, notice anything? Yup, it doesn't melt, and not only that, you can still hold on to it at the end furthest away from the lighter. Now think about just how hot those steel support members got from the burning jet fuel? Thinking hard enough Jay Ref? Yup, you've run out of energy again, they haven't heated up all the way along the supports.

So how come the steel supports were so hot they melted? After all, firemen could get up the towers without being incinerated, and there were some unfortunate victims visible at the damage holes, victims of war criminals who appear, in my opinion, to be trying to escape justice for this atrocity.

[blackcat]

[Jay Ref]

[spiv]

Ahh... Jay Ref, you surfaced from your hole to entertain us all again.

[Jay Ref]

[spiv]

Oh dear, looks like Jay Ref is a tad irritable today, obviously got out of his bed on the wrong side before going to work around 9am American time.

No Jay ref, I've not been on too many CT sites, except this one oddly enough. I figured out that the 9/11 event, and Bush's so called "war on terror" was a deception long before I came on this site.

Just like I firmly believe that the current "murdering plot on a massive scale" of blowing up waves of aircraft from London to America last week is a fraud. I am betting on all these people just being quietly released once the media furore has died down.

What puzzles me is why, knowing of the plot the Sunday before the police raids here in the UK, Blair rings Bush about it and then goes on his holidays. Very odd, considering this thing was supposed to be bigger than 9/11. (Reminds me of just how cool and relaxed Bush looked as he sat reading a book about Nanny goats in that school for 20 minutes, with the Secret Service knowing he could be a target!!!)

Can't see Churchill going on his holidays when there was a "war" on.

Anyway, keep on amusing us, I like it, as you cement my convictions and beliefs the longer you go on.

[Jay Ref]

[chipmunk stew]

[scubadiver]

[Jay Ref]

[chipmunk stew]

[scubadiver]

Im not an expert on explosives which I freely admit so I was posing an open question on how that picture can be explained

I did start the thread with the assumption that explosives were not used since the both of you (JR and CS) always maintain that position so I am giving you the chance to defend your position and put forward an argument why explosives were not used and how you may explain that picture within that argument.

Since neither of you managed to do that and cleverly switched this thread to make us prove how explosives were used it clearly indicates you have no evidence or explanation to defend your position.

[chipmunk stew]

[scubadiver]

You are missing my point. It isn't the amount of energy that is expended. We can both agree.

My question is: how do you explain HOW the energy is expended given the picture at the top of this thread if explosives were NOT used.

[chipmunk stew]

[Mooter]

blimey - that 50mb NIST document is taking a while to download. once it is I will take a read.....

[stateofgrace]

[scubadiver]

[stateofgrace]

[Mooter]

ok read that NIST document and I have to say - its way over my head!

What I can glean is that it is one of many documents on the collapse and that one focuses on the fires and the way they spread. From what I can gather, they used software to simulate the fires and got results that were not wholly accurate to the fires shown on the photo's they supplied. I do intend to get all the other parts of their reports to get a fuller picture of the NIST account - I just hope they aren't as big (50mb) as that one is.

As a side point, it takes a lot of skill to get a 164 page PDF to be 50MB in size. Its a good thing I have 8mb DSL or I probably wouldn't have bothered - like I suspect many people won't.

[stateofgrace]

Mooter,

I have read the NIST final report on the collapse of the Towers. It is not one of many; it is universally accepted by the entire scientific community as fact.

Before this final report was produced, there was draft report after draft report, put out into the public domain. All these reports were subject to close and minute scrutiny. All criticism and input was welcome from anywhere.

This scrutiny was analysed and either taken onboard or dismissed as irrelevant, before the final, peer reviewed report was published.

Please get rid of the notion that this report was produced behind closed doors, without any sort of public consultation. It was not, it as the full backing of the entire scientific community

[gordon]

1/2 X mass X velocity^2 = a huge amount of energy

Sounds simple.
But,
1/2 X mass1 X velocity1^2 = a huge amount1 of available energy

1/2 X mass2 X velocity2^2 = a huge amount2 of unexpended energy

Actual energy used = huge amount1 - huge amount2 = Energy used for all demands in the collapse.

Gordon.