David Icke and' No Plane' Theories

[Justin]

This morning I had a long telephone conversation with David Icke and when I asked him for his view about the 'No Plane' theories concerning the Twin Towers he said 'Don't go there!. In his opinion this is being used to damage the 9/11 Truth movement at this extraordinarily important time for us and, whilst he accepts that the PTB/Illuminati/NeoCons are capable of almost anything, our campaign must stick to the basics. He said that the most important thing is for a new impartial inquiry into 9/11 to take place and that it is not up to us to come up with the detail as to how the PTB actually carried out the day's attacks. So please, those of you who champion the NPT, just stop and think what likely damage you are doing to the greater cause. I can totally understand your fascination in wanting to find out how they actually pulled the whole thing off, but please keep these theories 'entre nous'!

David also used a great one liner to me. He said:

9/11 is nothing but a tapestry of lies, inconsistencies and impossibilities.

[sonic]

Justin, I agree with David on this.

WE REALLY NEED TO STICK TO THE BASICS!!! and especially at this time as the information war is in full swing.

Peace,

Sonic.

So who will guard THE MEDIA???

[ian neal]

Always good to hear what David Icke's view is on developments. Thanks Justin.

Regarding the "don't go there" advice, well yes and no.

Yes, when making the case for a new inquiry I agree with David that we shouldn't 'go there' and cite such controversial and potentially devisive evidence or beliefs in support for a new investigation. No argument there atleast from me.

We have more than enough mainstream evidence to demonstrate the need for a new investigation. If asked the question by the media, my advice would be to bat it away. This seems to be the lesson David Icke has learnt (after much 'bitter' experience). When now questioned over his 'lizard' beliefs by anyone from the mainstream media (MSM), he knows they will never give him the time, space and honesty to explain and debate 'his' ideas properly, so he 'won't go there'. Lesson well learnt.

And clearly the same applies to the 'no 7x7s' theories. The MSM will use them as 'strawmen' to discredit the wider movement. That is obvious

But no, in that our no endorsement policy basically means there is no party line, no censorship as to what evidence is 'allowed' to be debated and what is not

The no endorsement policy means

'peak oilers' and 'non-peak oilers',
'pod' and 'non pod' people,
'planers' and 'no 7X7s'
etc....

All are welcome. All opinion as long as it is respectfully made and does not contravene the principles of the site (no promotion of hatred: see about us) is welcome.

It should also be acknowledged that there are some very 'senior' / experienced researchers / campaigners backing the need to explore this theory (killtown, Nico Haupt, Jimmy Walter, Veronica, Holmgren, etc) Their opinion should not be dismissed out of hand.

At the end of the day all we need to do is unite on a core platform (as presented on the front page of this site) and then step back and allow all campaigners to 'speak their own truth'. I know David Icke would understand that one

Related posts of mine

here and

here

[Banish]

Ask him to look at these.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1535000/video/_1538186_wtc_firstcrash_vi .ram

http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2001/09/12/first.plane.hits.gp.med.ram

There was NO plane at Shanksville. Right?

There was NO plane at the Pentagon. Right?

There is NO plane in the above footage - the so called Naudet footage.

And every photo and clip of the South Tower airplane is seriously flawed somehow. Invisible wings, plane melting into building not crashing against it.

No it's not damaging to "the movement", Icke you idiot. It partially inspired the Movement. I saw the FAKE plane on DAY 1. Thats how I got started, many others also.

Airplanes mean hijackers. If you let go of the notion of hijackers then it all becomes clear.

[reductionist]

is being strangely sensible over this. Don't go there is probably the best place to go. I think that we concentrate on the WTC demolitions and if it turns out that these left-field theories have any merit, they'll come out in the wash...

regards

phil in wales

[HERA]

Lets just keep the no-planes to ourselves for the moment.
Some people think Osama bin Laden was flying one of the aircraft.

[Justin]

[TimmyG]

i totally agree.

lets not go there.

[ian neal]

Banish says

[John White]

Trust in Icke continues to be extremely well placed

[LBC]

I have to agree with Icke. If we're to pry open the eyes of the ignorant concerning this matter it must be done by presenting cold, hard facts, and not this fantastical 'no planes' absurdity.

[fixuplooksharp]

[quote="Banish"]Ask him to look at these.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1535000/video/_1538186_wtc_firstcrash_vi .ram

http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2001/09/12/first.plane.hits.gp.med.ram

There was NO plane at Shanksville. Right?

There was NO plane at the Pentagon. Right?

There is NO plane in the above footage - the so called Naudet footage.

And every photo and clip of the South Tower airplane is seriously flawed somehow. Invisible wings, plane melting into building not crashing against it.

No it's not damaging to "the movement", Icke you idiot. It partially inspired the Movement. I saw the FAKE plane on DAY 1. Thats how I got started, many others also.

Airplanes mean hijackers. If you let go of the notion of hijackers then it all becomes clear.[/quote]

now you son, have lost the plot.

okay lets say your right.....the us gov used hologram missiles to attack the wtc.....fine.......this would be an addition to the mountain of evidence that is already worthy of a full independant investigation.

but..... how unrealistic does it sound? like something out of mission impossible x-files etc. most people have no idea about hologram technology and it just sounds plain loony, obviously more than the demolition, negligence etc...

so you are going to tell me that this is how we should approach the public? you need to be subtle and lure them in slowly as otherwise people put thir shutters up straight away and go on the defensive. we already have a huge task to accomplish and yet you are fuzzying the water with things that probably cannot ever be fproven, even if true. all the evidence is in china/india watever.

just leave it. its bad for my credibility and the movement.

i have my mum coming up 2 me and saying 'you believe there were no planes and actually holograms etc' im like........what can u say? obv u say its *, but it lingers in ppls minds!

[TimmyG]

some of the stills from the video clips look a bit funny its true. but how often do you see planes fly into skyscrapers? theres nothing completely out of the ordinary about the way those planes glided into the building when you consider the mass and the speed of the aircraft. If they had the technology to project such realistic holograms and co-ordinate them with explosions (and doing this was more efficient than flying actual planes into the buildings).. they would doing all kinds of holographic stuff! how about projecting an iranian missile flying into israel? that would make things easier wouldn't it?

if they were holographic planes where was the generator of the image? if it was in the 'cigar shaped' projectile then why didn't the image dissapear when the power source was destroyed?

it's just bloody silly.

[Bicnarok]

[John White]

In any conversation about icke, lizards are never going to be far away...so I can probably stretch to ONE post here on the subject

(btw, we investigate this in full at Illusions)

The Reptillian Agenda stands up as True in TWO ways:

1) its mythologically true. Every culture on the planet has legends about reptillians (Snake People, Annunaki, etc etc etc). This is undisputable: we can argue about its significance but the mythology is there. This definately includes shape-shifting

2) its metaphorically true: The ruling sections of human society are ritualistic, obsessed with status, and most assuredly divorced from human empathy: just like a cold hearted Lizard

It just doesnt stand up as actually true:

There is no concrete evidance for shapeshifting reptillians whatsoever that has come to light to date...other than the testimony of those who believe they have encountered the same....perhaps they have...and whatever these people actually saw, they have to live with it. But without coroberating testimony (and oh! for a camera) theres never going to be a shift in consensual reality

Of course, ever since Wogan Icke has had nothing to lose...and for some people its worth recognising the value of a theory in which 2 out of 3 aint bad

However, if anyone should know about when its "not worth going there" its Icke, and one can only hope he is listened to on "No Planes"

[paul wright]

I was in a Yahoo group with Rosalee Grable - the Webfairy - late 2002 to 2003, when she was developing her slow-mo suspicious images
I did promote the hologram theory in various places for a while, but take it from me guys,since David (S) allegedly let slip the idea, this and the blue screen theory are best abruptly dropped
Even as they repeatedly appear on here, the main media will incessantly pick up on it to knock the movement. Their wolfish tendency has picked up this, and they will use it to the hilt to damage the campaign
Let's take it right out of this forum and somewhere else, and I say this as a long-term 'believer'
Even amongst ourselves,because we are observed and judged as a whole, we must protect ourselves from defeat by ridicule
And I say this with the realisation that this little ignored forum is becoming very important to mainstream news coverage, as the impact of the Truth movement continues to pop up again and again in mainstream
We must remember that we are living in an actual - though not fully enabled - fascist regime - and however libertarian our tendencies, we must develop self-protective strategies
NPT is a good 'un that I'm most respectful of , but don't let it be just another stick (fascius?) in their hand - to beat us with - as it were

[scar]

My flatmate just shouted through to me that the BBC just had some coverage of 911 conspiracy theories on the news. The first line was 'Conspiracy theorists believe that there were no planes'. It may have been "All conspiracy theorists believe that there were no planes" thats what she said first but shes not sure now. Did anyone else catch it?

[Banish]

Ok maybe I was harsh with my words.

Why does everybody immediately cry hologram in response tho the NPT?

I never mentioned hologram.

The TV footage was faked. Simple.

As for aluminium planes melting into steel and concrete buildings that were designed to stand for 1000 years is a load of bollox. The steel column which flew hundreds of yards and embedded in the Federal Building weighed 700 tons alone. One column. The plane is supposed have sailed through several steel columns and 10 floors of concrete and didnt even slow down. You plane huggers are barmy.

http://f3.putfile.com/videos/c7-12712572390.mpg

http://f3.putfile.com/videos/b7-12916022989.mpg

Slomo these two clips.

[paul wright]

I'm a plane hugger by no means, but as media attention is just beginning to be focussed on this movement at last, I think both concepts should be dropped (from view, not from consciousness) for the time being anyway
It's been done to death anyway - there's been half a dozen threads in the past few weeks
See this article

Johann Hari: Diana, Osama and the rise of conspiracy theories
A huge number of genuine conspiracies have been exposed over the past 30 years
Published: 11 September 2006
We are living in a Golden Age of conspiracy theories. The lingering stain of green ink has been scrubbed away; all over the world, the maddest ideas have gone mainstream. Some 27 per cent of Brits believe Diana Spencer was murdered - presumably by the Windsor mafia - and 86 per cent in the Arab world agree.
The announcement this week of a new head for the Diana inquiry, due to report in two years' time, is hardly likely to dampen their delusions. Some 36 per cent of American citizens - more than the number who voted for either Kerry or Bush - believe it is "likely" or "very likely" the US government staged the attack on the World Trade Centre themselves as a Reichstag fire to justify eternal war. Fat majorities all over the developing world agree. David Icke's 12-foot lizards are no doubt watching this bush-fire of fantasies from their lair beneath the White House, licking their reptilian lips with glee.
Why this rise in shadow-politics? This could be a case for Mulder and Scully, but the first reason is slightly encouraging: a huge number of genuine conspiracies have been exposed over the past 30 years. Richard Nixon bugging and burgling his political opponents, while ordering secret coups to kill the elected Prime Minister of Chile and replace him with a fascist junta? It happened. A far-right plot by colonels and hacks at the heart of the British establishment to oust Prime Minister Harold Wilson? It happened. George Bush ordering an invasion of Iraq on the basis of fictitious Weapons of Mass Destruction? It happened.
Once real plots like this have been exposed, many people inevitably become radically sceptical - and some become so open-minded their brains fall out. They begin to believe that Donald Rumsfeld plotted to fly a plane into the building he was sitting in, or that Elizabeth Windsor has the power to order assassinations, and that nobody would ever leak it. David Shayler, the former MI5 spy who is the darling of the "9/11 Truth Movement" in Britain, says there were no planes flown into the World Trade Centre. No, they "were missiles surrounded by holograms made to look like planes" - and cites Bush's lies on Iraq as evidence that anything is possible. Necessary scepticism towards power becomes credulousness towards any oppositional theory, however mad.
There are other, sadder explanations too. Conspiracy theories are the ideologies of the impotent. They are the political theory people turn to when they feel they have no control over events and no hope for change, but still pine for an over-arching and intellectually satisfying explanation for the state of the world. I can't do anything - and it's because These People (Jews/ Freemasons/ Chinese/ lizards) control everything. That's why conspiracy theories dominate the hushed political discussions that happen in tyrannies. And it's why they have ballooned in popularity in the democratic world as trust in our political institutions has haemorrhaged over the past 50 years, and we increasingly feel subject to rulers we cannot influence.
The susceptibility of so many people to the plainly false belief that the Bush administration ordered 9/11, for example, is partly the result of a natural psychological process. When trauma whacks us in the face, our brains naturally try to associate it with what we knew before. An evil event has occurred; who do we know who is evil? The Bush administration. They must be responsible. It cannot be seemingly random people Out There, particularly not people we see as inherently good - the wretched of the earth. Rather than adjust our old thinking to the new realities, conspiracists try to adjust the new realities to our old thinking.
But there is a deeper, almost-religious impulse behind conspiracy theories. They are a natural attempt to rebel against the cruel randomness of life. Patrick Leman, a psychology lecturer at Royal Holloway University, explains: "We tend to associate major events - a president or princess dying - with major causes. If we think big events like a president being assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that points to the unpredictability and randomness of life and unsettles us."
So Diana's death is a big event; it can't have been caused by a drunk driver taking a wrong turn in a tunnel. So the massacres in Manhattan and Washington five years ago today were a huge event; they can't have been the result of 17 Arabs working for a guy in a cave in Tora Bora. If we admit to ourselves that the very big can be wiped out by the unbearably small, then we have to admit the ground beneath our feet is very fragile.
Conspiracists continue to believe, in defiance of all the evidence, for the same reason Creationists continue to believe in defiance of all the evidence. As Mark Lawson puts it in his brilliant novel Idlewild: "Just as the pious made sense of bereavement through God and heaven, so did the suspicious find purpose in chaos through the invocation of the CIA, the FBI and the military-industrial complex. There was the same comfort in believing there was an ordering force behind the mess of existence."
He points out that some hardcore conspiracists believe in the "Four Men from Texas" theory of history, arguing that all of America's modern horrors - from Watergate to Abu Ghraib - are the work of four men meeting in country clubs in Dallas. He asks: "What was this invisible committee if not a proxy God?"
To many of us, it is more comforting to believe there is a malevolent force controlling events than to acknowledge that we are simply arbitrarily evolved bits of carbon floating in a void. It is easier to confect an endless contorted conspiracy theory - the real planes disappeared, the driver was paid by MI5, the Queen is a lizard - than to admit the truth. Sometimes a car crash is just a car crash. Sometimes a massacre is just a massacre. Sometimes nobody is in control.

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article146 6390.ece

[Pincher]

[quote="Justin"]This morning I had a long telephone conversation with David Icke and when I asked him for his view about the 'No Plane' theories concerning the Twin Towers he said 'Don't go there!' In his opinion this is being used to damage the 9/11 Truth movement at this extraordinarily important time for us and, whilst he accepts that the PTB/Illuminati/NeoCons are capable of almost anything, our campaign must stick to the basics. He said that the most important thing is for a new impartial inquiry into 9/11 to take place and that it is not up to us to come up with the detail as to how the PTB actually carried out the day's attacks. So please, those of you who champion the NPT, just stop and think what likely damage you are doing to the greater cause. I can totally understand your fascination in wanting to find out how they actually pulled the whole thing off, but please keep these theories 'entre nous'!

David also used a great one liner to me. He said:

9/11 is nothing but a tapestry of lies, inconsistencies and impossibilities.

...and then you wonder why so few people take you seriously. Remember folks that out there in that big old cynical world the messenger is more important than the message.

And if you go phoning reptilian-humanoid fantasists and spreading neo-Nazi LaRouchian bile you not only deserve double the abuse you actually receive you also richly deserve a big fat dental bill...

so help me God.[b][/b]

[Witchfinder General]

Justin said

"David Icke doesn't think that a plane flew into the Pentagon and likewise, concerning Flight 93, the crash site is missing any serious debris. As regards the Twin Towers, I'm sorry but both he and I believe they were planes that went into the buildings - in fact IMHO (and I studied plane crashes at Cranfield University as part of an International Disaster Management Course) the planes entered the Towers exactly as I would expect them to do - after all they were not made from reinforced concrete like the Pentagon. At the Pentagon you would expect the plane to crash against it leaving substantial wreckage on the outside of the building - and it seems realistic IMHO to expect the opposite when crashing into a skyscraper"


So Justin

You say the planes entered the Towers EXACTLY as you would expect them to do.

You expected no deceleration
You expected no blowback of wreckage
You expected the fireball to come out of the exit wound
You expect the fuel to explode after 2 seconds and not 2 frames
You expected the entrance scar to heal around the plane as it entered

Which footage are you looking at to form your opinion and has David Icke actually looked at the evidence?

[John White]

[GazeboflossUK]

[Fred]

Whether you believe in no planes or not, CNN's TV Fakery has been proven.

Thanks to ALW for the still image comparisons.
http://www.livevideo.com/video/8C1F9CC2735F49EC91A8D5BB953612D9/disinf o-in-the-uk-150-replies.aspx?lastvcid=173963
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/414324/cnn_fake_footage_blasted_impossib le_camera_angles_impossible/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/533907/cnn_fake_footage_blasted_when_whe re_and_how_did_they_film_th/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/542884/cnn_hoax_if_by_land_cnn_hoax_if_b y_sea/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/541194/cnn_fake_footage_blasted_more_pro of_for_the_hard_headed/

[GazeboflossUK]

No, it hasn't.

Sorry, but I really think it's not helpful.

[karlos]

[karlos]

[karlos]

Justin
If you are in touch with Mr Icke can he not come as a guest speaker at a 911 truth meeting?
It would be good to combine forces and bring his supporters into the fold?

[Justin]

I would be happy to ask David if you organised an event but he only does a handful of speaking engagements around the world in a year, preferring instead to do media interviews and to concentrate on writing his books. It would also have to be an event where you could guarantee an audience of at least a thousand people.

As regards my friend, Witchfinder General, we have no known footage anywhere in the world of aircraft the size of a 767 crashing into buildings except on 9/11. But, having been given and shown the information about the characteristics of plane crashes whilst doing my disaster management course at Cranfield, I still feel comfortable with what I said in this thread back in September of last year. However, I do accept that the international elite network made up of Illuminati/NeoCons/NWO/Zionists/Masons etc. etc. more than likely have super 'black' technology that is not admitted to. I just don't believe now is the time to be debating all of this - we have enough evidence to convict the true perpetrators of 9/11 without going down this path.