Genuine conviction, but is it enough?

[telecasterisation]

Firstly, I would like to emphasise I am British (in Bristol) and not a skeptic.

I have followed the Truth Movement and its core beliefs from the earliest days and have written associated articles in my company magazine concerning the basic ideology of such works as Loose Change 2, Painful Deceptions et al. I have attended public gatherings designed to inform the uninitiated and done exhaustive research on the internet.

Until recently I have focused on the work of several individuals on the American equivalent of this site who have been visiting The Pentagon with a view to narrowing down the possibilities by interviewing witnesses. So, I am not completely clueless when it comes to the beliefs of The Truth Movement.

There is however, something that troubles me greatly with regard to the way forward;

In this context, by implication, the very word ‘movement’ means making progress towards something. All physical evidence (as far as I am aware) is history, there are no fingerprints, no ‘bits’ of the WTC that can be forensically examined, no plane fragments in the public forum. So what we are left with is – videos, soundbytes, photographs and expert opinion. With this in mind, the more I immerse myself in the entire concept of what is believed, I think of those that believe the moon landings were faked and nearly 40 years later, they still sit and stare and wonder. Will us ‘Loose Changers’ be in a similar position four decades from now?

The point here is this, unless there is a whistleblower, or a group of those involved in participating in 9/11 who is prepared to come forward – what can ever be done with mere suspicion alone?? Of course, the word ‘proof’ is banded about continually and certainly aspects such as the apparent controlled demolition of WTC7 is compelling, but opinion is far from enough to bring criminal charges, at best all there is, is circumstantial ‘evidence’. So if all we ever have is faith based upon a few videos, then what next?

I copy and distribute ‘theorist’ type documentaries, but try as I might, I am unable to identify where it all culminates?? It is all very well to have X million people believing it was all a huge con orchestrated by the government, but without definitive, irrefutable, cast-iron evidence, which after 5 years we either have or have not, what happens then??

I do not wish this to sound inflammatory, it is more to get a feeling of what is the expectation of others?

[Leiff]

I heard Richard Grove on his 911 Synchronicity podcast mention 'evidence that people destroyed evidence' - maybe this would be a more fruitful line of enquiry?

[marky 54]

its a very good question, theres to much info out there that clouds the facts, and two sides of the story,also there are lots of new theory's all the time which ferther complicates the matter, and i dont think any of it is by accident. we are all being fooled but i dont know what we are being fooled over. and dont know who is telling the truth anymore all i know is that its almost impossible to come to a conclusion about anything unless there is new evidence out there or someone comes forward. i have now taken to checking and coming to conclusions without taking into account anyone elses opinions. although i still carnt trust if my conclusions are mine or if i have been led to them by the media i watch or listen to, this might all sound negative but i think theres to many sides and whilst we see stuff that seems real or unreal we will never know if it is there on purpose to influance a decsion or if it is indeed fact. we can be turned against anyone with the right information if you see what i mean. this is my last post for a while whilst i clear my mind, as i now no longer know what is real or trusted not just on the debate on 9/11 but indeed anything. but i am coming to the conclusion that no matter what we think as individals it is something put on us from the world we live, we are indeed just workers in an ants nest and i dont think we will ever fully understand it.

[John White]

We need a new investigation swarming with public scrutiny: then there will be justice.

Demanding just that has always been the purpose of this site

The final barrier to overturn is showing the 911 Commision report to be a coverup: and thanks to the Jersey Girls we have the information to do that!

www.911pressfortruth.com

[Andrew Johnson]

Please note:

This thread has been moved to Critics Corner. Posters be aware we KNOW from SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE (e.g. freefall collapse)


9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB

Thanks

[telecasterisation]

This is indeed one of the biggest problems The Movement faces, identifying genuine criticism with genuin questions.

There is not the slightest hint of criticism in my question, I am neither a critic nor a skeptic. The point was missed entirely.

If indeed there was anything other than circumstantial evidence, scientific or otherwise, then this site would not be needed, Bush would already have had the lethal injection, or be bent over in the showers of some penal instituation.

The point is very clear - whatever you provide in the form of evidence, there will be a counter argument and as there is nothing whatsoever in the form of tangible proof - each side cancels out of the other.

There will be an entire governmental department reading every word published on the internet by sites like this, this will all be reported back to a central area where counter-claims and arguments will be formulated. I am sure that 'they' are ready for anything we can put together. When asked to supply the missing footage along the flightpath of whatever hit The Pentagon, they can simply say there is none - they are the government, they can say what they like.

I read the other day a very interesting article about the doors being closed on the floors of the WTC and the windows were sealed on the floors below the collapse, the air pressure popped open weaker areas as the building collapsed making it appear as if the 'squibs' were explosives being detonated. Now I am not saying that is what happended - it is not my opinion - I am merely repeating it - it sounds like a load of old pants. However, you stand up in court and detail your side using your experts, the other side details their's - so as far as the jury is concerned and without forensic evidence of thermite charges - it ends there for there is too much doubt.

However we phrase it, it will alway be viewed as a bunch of conspiracy theorists wasting taxpayer's money UNLESS there is a whistleblower. However you paraphrase it, all that currently exists are charts on freefall times which make it appear as if we can substantiate our beliefs. Whilst it appears we can - I am saying that is not enough and without additional unshakable proof, it is game over.
Someone will get up and detail how the temperature of this influenced that, that weakened something else, which in turn lead to the collapse and the jury simply accepts it as a possibility = the end.

I am simply saying waving bits of paper falls far far short of what is really required and as someone who believes 9/11 was orchestrated by the American government, I find this a daunting prospect.

And for the person who moved this to the critic's area - I am realist not a disbeliever.

[Andrew Johnson]

[aggle-rithm]

[telecasterisation]

[Mark Gobell]

We are part of a global campaign calling for a new investigation of 9/11.

We may well be usurped in our efforts if the US electorate are sufficiently awakened to vote Bushco out of the Congress, as is looking very likely, and eventually the Senate.

If this is achieved, we still have to rely on political will for a full investigation to be instigated.

We, the people, therefore, must continue in our efforts to expose this crime and those responsible.

To paraphrase David Ray Griffin, that reality may mean that the world may face a further, even deeper crisis than we currently do as it may precipitate a financial collapse, engineered or otherwise.

The alternative, however, is a far greater chasm for the whole of mankind, the ecological collapse of the planet.

[SHERITON HOTEL]

Does the thread starter accept the official 9/11 story is a conspiracy theory and can he/she provide cast iron proof of it it being the truth beyond reasonable doubt?

[Bicnarok]

The problem is the powers what be NWO or whatever you want to call them have nearly all the aces.

1. They have the advanced technology.
2. They have massive funds available.
3. They control the military
4. They control or can control the media.
5. They can influence and brainwash the sheep like masses with ease.
6. They have the overview, the view from the tower over the masses and they will soon have the ability to watch, follow and listen to EVERYONE.

But the Jokers are still out there.

1. They have become arrogant
2. Not everyone is blocked by the smoke screen and can be brainwashed.
3. Not everyone is a sheeple happy with thier little world and able to ignore the lies.
4. And this is the hand which can rip the cards apart.. THEY are being watched and they know it, and there´s nothing they can do about this seeing eye, the eye which will eventually destroy them!!

[telecasterisation]

[Mark Gobell]

If I have understood the last bit of your post correctly:

Do you not think that the evidence of controlled demolition of the Twin Towers and WTC7 is completely unassailable ?

[Woodee]

you seem to have your caps lock key stuck

[aggle-rithm]

[Bushwacker]

[MiniMauve]

I don't understand how this has turned into a grilling of the original poster on his beliefs nor do I understand why this thread ever got moved to the critic's corner... Telecastration asks a perfectly reasonable question. Where do we go from here? What is our way forward? Do we all have to 'prove' our credentials at the door now? Match our list of beliefs against a pre-approved master list? Will I soon be relegated to the Critic's Corner because I don't believe in NPT? I thought the Critic's Corner was for those who actually criticize the basic idea that the official 911 story is false. I think this while segregetion of posters is a mistake but, clearly, Tele isn't supporting the official story.

To answer your question, tele, the key to the way forward, as I see it, is building popular support for the movement. The only way a more credible investigation of 911 will be carried out is if their is political will to do so. The only way to develop that political will is to support candidates who promise to push for a re-investigation of 911. I hate to carp on it again but this is why I believe it is so CRITICAL that Icke's lizards, Reynold's holograms and even Griffin's demons do not get media play. It prevents the entire movement from being taken seriously and thereore prevents it gaining the popular support it needs to make a difference.

[Woodee]

[marky 54]

[anti_this_website]

I havent payed that closer attention to the pentagon footage. All I know is that:

number 1) The pentagon was one incident - show me any acctual evidence from the main towers that suggests anything other than the obvious happened

number 2) America would have no reason to bomb its on buildings, especially when innocient america citizens were still inside it

and number 3) Everyone knows the planes we're hijaked - there were phone calls from passangers on board, they were there, and i think they'd know

[Woodee]

[anti_this_website]

And also just to point out:

People read into things far to much, Im only 16, and to be honest my simple way of looking at things is a blessing. I look at things the way they are and thats that. I don't look in stories to look at theories to start a stir.

9/11 happened, it was a terrorist act, and all the evience shows it.

Theres no other explaination.

[marky 54]

[anti_this_website]

And another point - passengers maneged to crash one of the planes before it reached the whitehouse, it crashed in Pensylvania. Why would the deliberately miss a target. If your going to bomb everything, you may aswell do a full job of it.

[marky 54]

again stuff we have been told not know, i understand you are young but even you must of lied before about something once, when covering up a lie do you a. tell the truth and get into trouble or b. come up with the best explantion you can to get out of being told of?

[Woodee]

look up flight 93.... no wreckage or bodies found on site... just a big hole. The coroner officially said he stopped being a coroner after 20 mins, because there was nothing to do.

The only reason we know that "passengers stormed cockpit and stormed the plane" is these mysterious phone calls... and again, these phone calls are hard to make from jets apparently

[Andrew Johnson]

[MiniMauve]

[telecasterisation]