| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Ally
Moderate Poster
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 909
Location: banned
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: Time to show the 911 Liars no mercy: in praise of Ally |
 |
|
Post and thread removed by Ian Neal at the request of Ally.
A few comments: In praise of Ally
I met Ally at the weekend and he was perfectly charming, rational and not at all paranoid in real life and not at all like his online persona that I know he would agree at times can be a little bit spiky.
Which brings me on to what it means to speak your truth. Ally is not untypical of people from Leeds. He tells as he sees it and doesn't cares who's in the way. Such bluntness, energy and honesty is vital for an honest campaign. If we were all mealy mouthed, overly polite, middle class soft southerners (like I could be perceived to be).............. He spoke his truth as he saw it yesterday and it attracted 6 short posts in response.
Now since then Ally emailed me asked me to remove the thread. Clearly he changed his mind and realises that really violence isn't the solution. And this has an important lesson for us all. In speaking our own truth we are allowed to change our minds. I don't believe or think exactly the same as I did 5 years ago. So to use another example, David S on balance of evidence currently believes there may have been no 7X7s (the no planes theory/s), but in time he may change his belief based on new understanding of the evidence, similarly I might shift from not really having an opinion to having an opinion I would want to share.
Since the whole thread was short, revolved around the original post I have decided to delete all of it. In essense the original post was IMO flippantly advocating a violent response to the situation we face.
Anyway thanks for emailing me Ally. It is always good to see us when we are not so tied to our own dogma that we are not too proud to change of mind and say so. Who knows one day our critics here in critics corner might make such a movement and of course, there is the possibility however slim that they will succeed in 'debunking' all the movements questions and evidence and people will move in the other direction, but somehow I doubt that that is the direction the wind is blowing
I will leave this thread open for Ally to respond if he wants, otherwise I suggest we move on. Thanks
Ian Neal
I reserve the right to reverse this act of moderation if with the other moderators we decide to do so. All moderation decsions are subject to appeal
Last edited by Ally on Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Woodee
Moderate Poster
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 159
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
what scares me is what I saw on one of the documentaries the other day. "History of the Suicide Bomber" I think. This chap interviewed many muslims and one of them was asked what will stop the violence. He replied words to the effect of... "you must accept Allah as your god" and asked if he comdemned the bombers of the WTC... he said "No"
Now this scares me! Somebody that won't accept that I have a differing idea of religion to them... and uses violence to inforce it!   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1628
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Woodee wrote: | what scares me is what I saw on one of the documentaries the other day. "History of the Suicide Bomber" I think. This chap interviewed many muslims and one of them was asked what will stop the violence. He replied words to the effect of... "you must accept Allah as your god" and asked if he comdemned the bombers of the WTC... he said "No"
Now this scares me! Somebody that won't accept that I have a differing idea of religion to them... and uses violence to inforce it! |
Sounds like the attitude of mainstream Christian religions until quite recent times. None the less scary for that, though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well Ian,
That sure was nice of you. I wonder if I would get the same magnanimous treatment if I melted down and started calling for the deaths of CTers?? I'm sure Ally is an alright bloke...but his words should have remained if only as a caution to those who may contemplate posting while inebriated.
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jay Ref wrote: | Well Ian,
That sure was nice of you. I wonder if I would get the same magnanimous treatment if I melted down and started calling for the deaths of CTers?? I'm sure Ally is an alright bloke...but his words should have remained if only as a caution to those who may contemplate posting while inebriated.
-z |
...or as a reminder to take their medication. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bicnarok
Moderate Poster
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 334
Location: Cydonia
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Woodee wrote: | what scares me is what I saw on one of the documentaries the other day. "History of the Suicide Bomber" I think. This chap interviewed many muslims and one of them was asked what will stop the violence. He replied words to the effect of... "you must accept Allah as your god" and asked if he comdemned the bombers of the WTC... he said "No"
Now this scares me! Somebody that won't accept that I have a differing idea of religion to them... and uses violence to inforce it! |
Don´t forget documentaries choose what they put in, if they interview 800 muslims and 1 says what you posted above, and they use this footage of this one then what is happening?
Yep your being manipulated to think all muslims want to kill everyone who isn´t muslim, this is a form of mind control. Wake up and use a bit of common sense. Ask muslims you know, see what they say.
_________________
"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our mind..." Bod Marley |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Woodee
Moderate Poster
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 159
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I see what you mean... but I mean it's scarey to even think one person would feel like that... and spread it to others. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marky 54
Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| the properganda has become that bad that i saw a story although i dont if it was true, that said a solider shot himself rather than go to iraq, because he was scared of having to kill children suicide bombers as young as two. come on we are all human(well those that arent corrupt) regardless of race do you really believe this could be true? i reckon this was fabricated from a story that said a soldier shot himself, because he didnt want to go to iraq because he was scared of killing children by accident. so with all the propaganda and lies its hard to tell what the truth is on news storys at the moment. they may well be telling the truth but humans are humans, they would not send there own children to death surely. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| marky 54 wrote: | | the properganda has become that bad that i saw a story although i dont if it was true, that said a solider shot himself rather than go to iraq, because he was scared of having to kill children suicide bombers as young as two. come on we are all human(well those that arent corrupt) regardless of race do you really believe this could be true? i reckon this was fabricated from a story that said a soldier shot himself, because he didnt want to go to iraq because he was scared of killing children by accident. so with all the propaganda and lies its hard to tell what the truth is on news storys at the moment. they may well be telling the truth but humans are humans, they would not send there own children to death surely. |
Surely you have a link to this?
Or did you just make it up...in time honoured CT tradition?
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DeFecToR
Moderate Poster
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 782
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jay Lord, you are a tw&t.
I myself remeber two separate American news stories of service men who hung themselves rather than be sent back to Iraq.
Hate to have to bring it to you but Iraq is a rather nasty place right now. Seems a certain liberation force (one i dont doubt you supported) have turned out to be a particularly nasty and brutal invasion and occupation force.
Who'da'thunk it.... 
_________________
"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
-William James |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DeFecToR wrote: | Jay Lord, you are a tw&t.
I myself remeber two separate American news stories of service men who hung themselves rather than be sent back to Iraq.
Hate to have to bring it to you but Iraq is a rather nasty place right now. Seems a certain liberation force (one i dont doubt you supported) have turned out to be a particularly nasty and brutal invasion and occupation force.
Who'da'thunk it.... |
Two? Then clearly you should be able to produce a link?
Personally I think you are just doing what you troofers do all the damned time:
Lie
Lie like a dog
Lie like a bathroom rug.
Lie like a politician
Lie like a used car salesman
You're a collection of liars and misfits led by con-men. If you told me the sky was blue I'd go out and check.
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John White
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jay Ref wrote: | | marky 54 wrote: | | the properganda has become that bad that i saw a story although i dont if it was true, that said a solider shot himself rather than go to iraq, because he was scared of having to kill children suicide bombers as young as two. come on we are all human(well those that arent corrupt) regardless of race do you really believe this could be true? i reckon this was fabricated from a story that said a soldier shot himself, because he didnt want to go to iraq because he was scared of killing children by accident. so with all the propaganda and lies its hard to tell what the truth is on news storys at the moment. they may well be telling the truth but humans are humans, they would not send there own children to death surely. |
Surely you have a link to this?
Or did you just make it up...in time honoured CT tradition?
-z |
This was a genuine UK MSM news story, perhaps covered by the Beeb
I cant be doing with spending the time tracking this down on your behalf Jay Ref, Im sure you can do your own research, but im happy to second that stories like this do appear over here
_________________
Free your Self and Free the World |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| John White wrote: | | Jay Ref wrote: | | marky 54 wrote: | | the properganda has become that bad that i saw a story although i dont if it was true, that said a solider shot himself rather than go to iraq, because he was scared of having to kill children suicide bombers as young as two. come on we are all human(well those that arent corrupt) regardless of race do you really believe this could be true? i reckon this was fabricated from a story that said a soldier shot himself, because he didnt want to go to iraq because he was scared of killing children by accident. so with all the propaganda and lies its hard to tell what the truth is on news storys at the moment. they may well be telling the truth but humans are humans, they would not send there own children to death surely. |
Surely you have a link to this?
Or did you just make it up...in time honoured CT tradition?
-z |
This was a genuine UK MSM news story, perhaps covered by the Beeb
I cant be doing with spending the time tracking this down on your behalf Jay Ref, Im sure you can do your own research, but im happy to second that stories like this do appear over here |
Then you are a liar. Making assertions without proof, then refusing to produce proof is absolutely indistinguishable from a lie.
It's practically all you fools are good for...
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John White
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well John first of all...war is an evil. That a soldier may do such a thing is not what I doubted. I doubted the veracity of the memory Marky was quoting from. When you post no evidence and rely upon memory you make mistakes. The CT is built upon such suspect information. As I said, if you folks told me the sky was blue I'd go outside to check.
I thank you for the link and humbly apologise to you.
However, if you will look to the original post Marky got several things wrong. The soldier did not shoot himself...he overdosed.
He was also a heavy drinker with a serious depression problem who had attempted suicide in the past:
| Quote: | After watching a football match on the night of 10 August, he calmly wrote the suicide note, telling his father it was a letter to a relative, took 60 painkillers then slashed his wrists. As he lay bleeding, the soldier dialled 999, telling the operator: "I have done something stupid."
In normal circumstances, Pte Chelsea, who suffered from dyslexia, may have recovered from his injuries. But when doctors began tests to assess the damage caused to his liver by the drugs, it was found that the organ had been irreparably damaged by alcohol. His family were told his liver was similar to that of someone who had been an alcoholic for 20 years and he would not survive a transplant. He died on 14 August at St James's Hospital in Leeds after his family gave consent for his other organs to be used for transplants.
His father said he believed t he reasons behind his son's drinking had provoked a previous suicide attempt in 2004, when he cut his wrists in his barracks. After this incident, Pte Chelsea was treated by an Army psychiatrist which the family said had restored his confidence.
Mr Chelsea said: "My son started drinking 18 months ago. He destroyed his liver in less than a year and a half. I believe that is because he was being bullied again. He did not want to make anything of it. He was in the Army, he knew he had to be tough. But it only takes a few words. He said he would hear comments aimed at him because of his dyslexia. He was told he would get his colleagues killed because he was stupid.
"I support the British Army and what it does. But I would like to stand before my son's unit with a picture of him in uniform and ask those who made these comments to him time after time to think about the effect they had."
The young soldier's despair was displayed in the note he wrote to his parents before his overdose. He said: "Really sorry, mum and dad. I'm just no good for you. I have got to finish it. I am just a waste." |
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1221649.ece
Looks to me like his mates did him in more than the idea of suicide kiddies in Iraq....
This is the point of research CToids....get your facts right; and get them in context.
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DeFecToR wrote: | Jay Lord, you are a tw&t.
I myself remeber two separate American news stories of service men who hung themselves rather than be sent back to Iraq.
Hate to have to bring it to you but Iraq is a rather nasty place right now. Seems a certain liberation force (one i dont doubt you supported) have turned out to be a particularly nasty and brutal invasion and occupation force.
Who'da'thunk it.... |
Most nasty and brutal invasion and occupation forces do not spend a great deal of time, money, and lives to rebuild the infrastructure of the country they are occupying, nor do they train the indigenous army to take over for them so they can pull out.
Also, for every American soldier who hangs himself rather than go to Iraq, there are probably ten who are eager to go back...apparently the hazard pay is pretty sweet, and many young guys who join the military are undeterred by any danger of getting killed. That's exactly why they get young guys to do it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DeFecToR
Moderate Poster
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 782
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
WOW MAN!!!
Holy nonsense Jay Ref. On this issue you have really betrayed your own ability to understand the world.
Why dont you go back to worshiping Fox News and leave the world alone?
_________________
"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
-William James |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John White
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jay-Ref wrote: | I thank you for the link and humbly apologise to you.
|
Thanks Jay Ref, appreciated.
I will be spending a bit more time in this section in the near future, so I hope we can get on well
_________________
Free your Self and Free the World |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marky 54
Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jay Ref wrote: | | marky 54 wrote: | | the properganda has become that bad that i saw a story although i dont if it was true, that said a solider shot himself rather than go to iraq, because he was scared of having to kill children suicide bombers as young as two. come on we are all human(well those that arent corrupt) regardless of race do you really believe this could be true? i reckon this was fabricated from a story that said a soldier shot himself, because he didnt want to go to iraq because he was scared of killing children by accident. so with all the propaganda and lies its hard to tell what the truth is on news storys at the moment. they may well be telling the truth but humans are humans, they would not send there own children to death surely. |
Surely you have a link to this?
Or did you just make it up...in time honoured CT tradition? if you read,which obviously you dont, i did say it could be untrue, as it was written by someone else on an other forum. so either the reported stroy was warped or the guy that wrote it on the forum was warped.IMO but again you cut of the bit were i said it could be untrue because your sad!
-z |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John White
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
By default, the apology can only be for both of us marky54, as Jayref doubted the word of both of us 
_________________
Free your Self and Free the World |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marky 54
Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| marky 54 wrote: | | Jay Ref wrote: | | marky 54 wrote: | | the properganda has become that bad that i saw a story although i dont if it was true, that said a solider shot himself rather than go to iraq, because he was scared of having to kill children suicide bombers as young as two. come on we are all human(well those that arent corrupt) regardless of race do you really believe this could be true? i reckon this was fabricated from a story that said a soldier shot himself, because he didnt want to go to iraq because he was scared of killing children by accident. so with all the propaganda and lies its hard to tell what the truth is on news storys at the moment. they may well be telling the truth but humans are humans, they would not send there own children to death surely. |
Surely you have a link to this?
Or did you just make it up...in time honoured CT tradition? if you read,which obviously you dont, i did say it could be untrue, as it was written by someone else on an other forum. so either the reported stroy was warped or the guy that wrote it on the forum was warped.IMO but again you cut of the bit were i said it could be untrue because your sad!
-z |
|
sorry jref i dont have a link to the stroy, i should of made clear that i had read this story from a post on another forum, which is why i said it could be untrue. i am not sure what source the person who wrote it was from, as he provided no links also. but if it was a media or just made up i was just questioning it. and pointing out how bad the properganda is getting. and when i refer to the media propaganda that is not a comment linked to this story, i was just saying with the reporting these days its hard to tell if we are getting whole truths ,or if they are purposly made over the top to try and make us think that all muslims are inhumane. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Chat
Usergroups
Calendar
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
