Why did the police change the blast times?

[Ally]

Does anyone know why the police suddenly decided the tube attacks were simultaneous?

The Met Police give a large glamorous press conference on 7/7 at 3.30pm. Met Commissioner Brian Paddick said, " In terms of what EXACTLY happened..at Moorgate, a hundred yards out of Liverpool Station an explosion occured at 08.51. Then at 08.56 an explosion occured on the Kings X Russel line leaving 21 dead. At 09:17 an explosion occured at the Edgeware road station which blew a hole through a wall into another trains, we believe 3 trains were involved in this incident. At 09:47 a bus exploded near Tavistock Square...We were given no warning."

So, why did they retract this later? If these are the facts then are they hiding the fact they let tubes run 26 mins after a bomb exploded on the network. Surely in our Big Brother police state they would be aware within ten minutes of a 'bomb' exploding any where on London Underground IMO.

Also interesting to note, at exactly 08:51 Bush and Blair were giving a LIVE press conference from Gleaneagles - kinda like their petgoat story moment but with adult audience. The media all break the story of the attack at 09:17, not a word of it before that and all channels keep up the pretence of it being a power surge until the bus blew up for all to see.

Why did the cops and media keep London in the dark for so long regarding being under attack, their primary function is to protect and serve

[Ally]

Check out that krap Stella Rimington book too, At Risk - the very first paragraph/20 words is someone describing being sat on a tube.

[numeral]

Below is the official version of events as at 12/7. What happened at Edgware Road is in need of investigation but a person under a train was reported at 0851. I don't think the 0917 time is significant. Of course, questions should be asked about the official version - about what is in it and what is left out, particularly the other trains involved in the incidents.

London Underground, the Metropolitan Police and the British Transport Police can now confirm that the three bombs which exploded on three Tube trains on Thursday 7 July went off simultaneously at around 08.50am

Explosions were as follows (in succession):

Circle line train number 204 heading eastbound from Liverpool Street station to Aldgate station.

Circle line train number 216 travelling westbound heading from Edgware Road station to Paddington station.

Piccadilly line train number 331 travelling from King's Cross St Pancras to Russell Square southbound.

London Underground operates a system called TrackerNet which allows staff to observe electronically the movement of rolling stock on the Tube network. It is presently being introduced for all London Underground lines and is in full operation on the Circle line.

TrackerNet is a management information tool only and not a system on which to base safety critical decisions. This is complimentary to existing LU and track systems which feed into the individual line control rooms.

After careful consideration of the recorded archive of realtime TrackerNet movements on the Circle line we can confirm the above for Circle line trains numbers 204 and 216 to have occurred within the space of one minute respectively.

TrackerNet is not yet live on the central section of the Piccadilly line. However, we can also confirm for Piccadilly line train 331 that the explosion occurred simultaneously at 08:50:00. Our evidence is based upon the precise time the Tunnel Telephone system went out of service.

It was this information supplied by London Underground which enabled the Police to confirm that the explosions occurred simultaneously and was a critical development in the hunt for the perpetrators of these terrorist attacks.

The events of Thursday morning were unprecedented. London Underground followed its well-practiced procedures to keep passengers safe based on the flow of information received.

First indications received by London Underground's Network Control Centre (NCC) at 08:50 of a problem on the network suggested a power supply problem affecting a large area as stations were reporting that some escalators had stopped and other station equipment was no longer working.

The Network Control Centre immediately treated this as a power supply issue and took actions to resolve the issue. At this stage NCC believed that the problem could be resolved and power would be restored by 09:15.

What we now know is that the power surge occurred as a direct result of explosions knocking the power supply out at the three incident sites.

At 08:51, the Central line called the NCC enquiring about a possible large noise or explosion onboard a train at Liverpool Street. At 08:52, the Metropolitan line confirmed that an explosion had taken place.

NCC believed this to be directly related to the ongoing power supply issue. Loud noises or explosions often accompany a power supply rupture.

At 08:53, London Underground commenced Gold Control (command and control person in charge of a serious incident on the Underground) in response to the first incident at 08:50.

On its own, a power surge is a major issue.

While this was being investigated, the NCC received a report at 08:59 indicating that a train departing Edgware Road station had hit the tunnel wall.

Further information came in quickly, including smoke and passengers self de-training and walking down the tunnel towards the nearest station, Edgware Road.

Sub-surface line managers immediately called the emergency services believing this to be a derailment.

At this time, London Underground believed that they were dealing with a major incident (derailment) and a serious power supply issue on the network.

The first call to the Metropolitan Police at 08:51 indicated that they were being asked to attend a person under a train incident caused by the derailment.

It wasn't until 09:17 that the Metropolitan Police received a call specifically stating than an explosion had occurred at Edgware Road. This explains the Metropolitan Police reporting that the Edgware Road explosion occurred at 09:17.

We now know this not to be the case as it has been proven that the three explosions on the Tube network occurred almost simultaneously. The various emergency services were either in attendance or on their way to Edgware Road. We also know that the train did not derail and hit a tunnel wall.

At 09:01, the Metropolitan line reported that a person may be under a train at Liverpool Street. This was the third issue that the Network Control Centre was now dealing with within a space of eleven minutes.

At 09:03, the Piccadilly line Duty Operations Manager receives reports of passengers running from King's Cross.

At 09:05, the NCC is advised of walking wounded at Edgware Road.

At 09:09, an engineer reports losing a high tension power cable between Mansell Street and Moorgate.

At 09:10, the Piccadilly line Duty Operations Manager reports to NCC a request for ambulances.

In the 20 minutes that had passed since 08:50, the Network Control Centre was now dealing with four separate issues (power supply, derailment at Edgware Road / person under train, person under train at Liverpool Street, loss of high tension power cable near Moorgate) and was receiving the appropriate co-ordinated response from LU, emergency services and suppliers.

At 09:11, the Piccadilly line Duty Operations Manager reports loss of traction current in Russell Square both east and westbound and that a loud bang had been heard at Russell Square westbound with staff already investigating.

By 0915, it was clear that the series of events occurring across the network were directly related to multiple explosions and a Code Amber alert was declared which means trains are brought into stations and told to stay there until further notice.

This was LU commencing the shutdown of the entire Tube network as it was evident that the continued operation of the Tube presented a risk to customers if further explosions occurred. LU staff began de-training large numbers of passengers and evacuating them from the network.

During the morning peak, LU operates over 500 trains and this is greater than the number of platforms on the network so some trains would have had to wait in tunnelled sections until they were clear to proceed into a station.

Where possible, trains in tunnelled sections joined together so that passengers could walk through from one train onto another until they reached a station.

The NCC asked all Underground lines to continue to hold all services and identify trains they had in stations and what was stalled in tunnel sections.

We then evacuated all remaining passengers from their trains - equivalent to a Code Red action - at 09:46 which means that all trains remained stationary, remaining passengers were detrained, stations commenced evacuation procedures and all services were suspended.

A Code Red, the immediate shutdown of the network, was never called.

As this would have left many passengers trapped in trains which would have been stalled in tunnels across the network.

The Code Amber action allowed the majority of passengers to be de-trained at stations rather than proceeding through tunnels which is a slow and dangerous process.

Between 08:45 and 09:00 on Thursday 7 July 2005, over 200,000 passengers would have been travelling on over 500 trains. The majority of passengers who were not killed or seriously injured were evacuated within one hour.

The three explosions presented a variety of complex operational issues for London Underground each requiring analysis and response.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2005/07/12/bomb_timeline_ feature.shtml

[ianrcrane]

It was reported that the four commuter trains that were bombed in Madrid on 11/3/04 were all on 'First Runs'. The 1st train having departed from Guadalajara Rail Depot and the other three trains departing from Alcala De Henares Rail Depot.

1st train had 3 bombs on board - going off simultaneously at 7:39am (13 stops)
2nd train had 4 bombs on board - going off simultaneously at 7.39am (8 stops)
3rd train had 2 bombs on board - going off simultaneously at 7.40am (7 stops)
4th train had 1 bomb on board - going off at 7:41am (5 stops)

Total number of stops from departure to explosions = 33 (may be irrelevent!)

All bombs were supposedly placed in Backpacks and were left (unattended) on the trains ......... although none of the witnesses apparently recall seeing these unattended backpacks! Just like none of the witnesses of 7/7 recall seeing any Asian or Middle Eastern youths with backpacks!

I wonder how long each of the three trains of the London Underground had been 'in service' on the morning of July 7th and (just out of curiosity) wonder how many cumulative stops the trains had made between entering service and the bombs exploding simultaneously at 8:50am?

Call it a hunch but I suspect that there is more than an outside chance that Circle Line trains 204 & 216 were in the same overnight shed at some juncture within the days immediately prior to 7/7. Now if the Piccadilly Line train 331 was housed in close proximity to the two Circle Line trains, that would be a remarkable, if not exactly surprising, coincidence!

If this supposition has any validity, it would imply that those responsible for planting the devices on the trains would need to have access to the train planning data. However, I am sure that it is well within the competence of the Black Op's teams to hack in to the respective systems in both London and Madrid. Failing that I'm sure that Bob Kiley knew who to call!

Any thoughts?

Ian R. Crane

[paul wright]

Hopefully in your insight to how things are you're a worthy successor, Ian,with no dark implications
http://www.vialls.com/myahudi/madrid.html

[Ally]

Also worth noting at the same press conference, Paddick was asked a handful of specific questions which have since went down the memory hole.

The media reporters asked; was the bomb in the tunnel or on the train? Was the Israeli embassy given advance warning? Did a sniper shoot someone dead at Canary Wharf? Paddick looked flustered when hit with these and issued mumbled denials or 'don't know' to each. He said they couldn't rule out the people behind the attack had special access to the London Underground system or worked for it implying he was open to the notion bombs were placed within the tunnels rather than on the trains.

About the explosions, many people were badly injured after being showered with glass from the windows of the train, now if the bomb was in the train the glass would blow out but it appeared the opposite happened. Am I wrong?

[insidejob]

Actually, the press claimed credit for that. Someone caught up in the bombings emailed video from his/her mobile phone of the events. The video contained the time because his/her watch was shown. The press reported this and stated that the police had got their bomb timings wrong. They had to admit it.

So, the question is why didn’t they come up with the right times in the first place? I saw a press conference on the Saturday afterwards with Piddick and whoever he was from Transport for London. TfL showed this flashy Trackernet computer graphics that monitors the movement of all tube trains. They claimed that from this they worked out what times bombs went off. It took me a bit of time to realise that this was PR nonsense. The idea that LU workers wouldn’t have been able to accurately estimate when their trains stopped seems nonsense.

Probably, the real reason they put out false times is similar to them pretending that military explosives weren’t used: to hide the professional nature of the attack. They wanted to hide the fact that the bombs went off at the same time – that is timers or some electronic trigger mechanisms were used. Perhaps, the power surge was the mechanism. If the explosions were professional, then they would have to find a ‘mastermind’. And we know they had problems finding one. So, they fell back on the amateurs who received training story.

Indeed, the amateur vs professional issue is one that still creates a big hole in the official story. Mainstream security and intelligence consultants, Stratfor, can’t work out how it is that Al Queda professionals left their IDs all over the place. The official story says that the four made bombs in their bath from detergent and flour or whatever called ‘mother of satan’. Newspapers reported that shoe-bomber, Richard Reid, used the same material. They said that Khan met Reid. They said that failed UK bomber Badat (I think) met up with Reid. Yet, when we first heard reports about Reid, they said plastic explosives were used. They said that Badat used plastic explosives. But Khan used detergent and flour. The criminal conspirators are in confusion about this one.

Ally is right when he says that some key questions posed at the Piddick press conference has gone down the memory hole. I've come across people on the web stating that the Canary Wharf shooting definitely happened.


insidejob

[Ally]

However, Tim O'Toole, the ex CIA bloke & London Underground executive is asked by a reporter at the same conference, "If the bombs exploded 26 minuted apart, at what point did use issue a warning to other tube trains?"

Tim refutes the allegation of negligence by saying said, "I was informed of the explosions very soon after, I was told they all happened within 3 minutes of each other and we switched to code amber straight away."

Is he lying? A big deal has been made that French and Israeli press confirmed simultaneous blasts within 24 hours but all the media after this press conference uphold the story the blasts were not simultaneous for the next few days.

[Ally]

[numeral]

Just to throw this into the mix:

Such are the wonders of the TPD (Train Position Detection) system -
transponders fitted to the 'C' class cars and along the Circle Line and
on the 1973 rolling stock of the Piccadilly Line.

Of course, if one had penetrated the control software at London
Underground's Network Control Centre (NCC) at 55, Broadway, then by
manipulating the signalling system, the train positions could not only
be monitored in real time, but also set by arbitrarily delaying specific
trains at signalling lights.

http://www.libertyforum.org/printthread.php?Cat=&Board=news_news&main= 293781957&type=thread

[numeral]

The high resolution TrackerNet images

are still on the Tfl site:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/image-gallery/images/rez-high/t rakernet-1-high.jpg

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/image-gallery/images/rez-high/t rakernet-2-high.jpg

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/image-gallery/images/rez-high/t rakernet-3-high.jpg

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/image-gallery/images/rez-high/t rakernet-4-high.jpg

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/image-gallery/images/rez-high/t rakernet-5-high.jpg

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/image-gallery/images/rez-high/t rakernet-6-high.jpg

No timestamps are visible.

[numeral]

The working timetables for train 331.

The "Blue Watch" article starts off:

"Sunday October 9, 2005
The Observer

He was firefighter Aaron Roche, the first person to enter carriage 346A of the 8.51am Piccadilly Line service from King's Cross after the 7 July bombs went off.
It was the 48th such service to leave London's busiest tube station that morning, each carriage crammed with commuters, many reading the newspaper coverage of London's Olympic triumph the previous day. It had just turned 10am when Roche began striding along the dark tunnel towards the stranded train."

Is it possible to find out the number of the 48th westbound service through King's Cross?

Reply:

The actual bombed train was the 62nd train of the day including engineers or 57th without.

If there were 9 cancellations 331 would be the 48th passenger train through King's Cross.

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.transport.london/browse_thread/thr ead/11a95d1714911168/9ea75426f43f43aa?q=346A&

[Alan Firminger]

Several details.

The matter of times is discussed here http://www.labournet.net/other/0507/london1.html . This is much as above but it introduces the Israeli business conference who were warned about terrorism before us.

The bombs provide a serious problem. Police have reported that the 7/7 bombs were well made with very little explosive material left.

An explosive is something that burns using its own oxygen. The quality of the explosive is the rate of flame advance.

An explosion is not an instant event, it takes time. The shorter the time the better the explosion. As a bomb goes off the start of the explosion tries to destroy the remainder of the bomb. Ordinary chemical bombs are all inefficient, they need a robust container to hold everything in until all the explosive has burnt.

A bursting balloon demonstrates the effect of a container.

The IRA demonstrated how to make third rate explosive as good as the best. I do not know who was first. The technique is to make a spider made with a small quantity of semtex to deliver the flame from an electrical fuse throughout the bulk of the bomb. Then the bulk get the flame at the same speed as the spider.

The 21/7 explosions were all described as "the detonators" and all the would be bombers were sprayed with white dust. That is a description of the spider working and the main explosive failing. Because the carriers survived with no injury the spider used a very small quantity of semtex.

The "efficient" 7/7 bombs means that they used a spider with a working explosive.

It has also been said that the two attacks both used the same obscure plastic bread boxes.

It is possible that the two groups of bombers both had members who attended identical bomb making courses in Pakistan, or Paddington for that matter. But unlikely.

A bomb maker is a skilled person who is hoarded by the organisation. Eventually the bomb maker dies either by accident that is genuine or contrived by the 'security services'.

7/7 and 21/7 both involved 4 bombers.

The websites describing TAPT all say that the explosive must be used within a week. It may be that one bomb maker produced all the bombs ready for use then left the UK before 7/7. The 14 day separation degraded the 21/7 bombs.

It is likely that there was one network with one motivator and one bomb maker. I do not understand why the official line disagrees with this.

This is an interesting detail : http://www.labournet.net/ukunion/0507/tube1.html

[numeral]

Not TATP.

"To our great surprise," PET's inventor, Prof. Ehud Keinan, Dean of the Technion's Faculty of Chemistry, wrote in the Journal of the American Chemical Society, "we discovered that TATP is very different from all other conventional explosives in that it does not release heat during the explosion. It explodes by rapid decomposition of every solid-state molecule to four gas-phase molecules. This rare phenomenon, scientifically known as 'Entropic Explosion', is reminiscent of the rapid reaction that produces gas in the safety air-bags of cars during accidents."

The London tube trains had no fuel that the blasts could ignite and the double decker's fuel tank did not catch fire.Therefore if TATP was what blew up the London tube trains, no one should have suffered burns. So if the government is right about TATP, all these people are lying about seeing flashes, and they're cheating the health care system by pretending to have burns.

http://www.tos4truth.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=9603

[numeral]

TracketNet Image 2 shows Circle LIne train 211 at Aldgate. On the Inner Rail the trains run in order 211,212,213,214,215,216,217. Ahead of 211 will be 217 and 216. 216 is seen in TrackerNet Image 5 at Edgware Road. That is compatible with explosions at 0850. At 0917 216 would be long gone and 217 or 211 would be in the area. In addtion, traction power was lost on the northern part of the Circle Line much earlier as the orange lines on TrackerNet Image 3 show.

Incidently, the train alongside 216 in TrackerNet image 6 is likely to be Circle Line train 207 since 206 is in Baker Street.

[Prole]

An interesting article here http://blogs.cjb.net/dissident/58288

[Ally]

[Prole]

[Ally]