Jay Ref is an admitted liar.

[Alek]

Jay Ref is none other than rikzilla, a condescending and arrogant person who frequents the JREF forums. Unfortunately for the JREF foundation, he decided to use their name as his username here and has obviously represented them poorly with his insubstantial trolling posts riddled with ad hominem attacks.

To top this off, he is liar, a fact which he openly admits to in this thread:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63884

He admits to phoning Mr. Danny Jowenko of http://jowenko.nl, owner of a professional demolition firm in the Netherlands and misrepresenting himself as a "Washington Post Reporter" in order to get an "on the record" statement by Mr. Jowenko regarding his opinion of the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7.

Mr. Jowenko's initial comments reflecting his impression that WTC7 was a controlled demolition were featured in a Dutch documentary called "Zembla 9/11". Part of the segment with him is on youtube, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqrn5x2_f6Q

What is interesting is that according to some hearsay about a Dutch blog, Jowenko apparently finds no reason to doubt the official story and claims he remembers news reports at the time which stated the WTC7 building was demolished on purpose for safety reasons!

In any event you can see how Mr. Jowenko is lambasted by the JREF community. Apparently an expert is only an expert if they support the typical JREF member's idea of the truth. Notice how New York tour guide-cum-9/11 expert Mark Roberts chimes in about how Jowenko is simply mistaken, and how he will come around once he is exposed to all the facts!

"I hope this information has helped you to understand that building 7 was not brought down by controlled demolition. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. I have much more information should you desire it." -Mark Roberts

If that isn't the essence of hubris, I don't know what is.

I find it ironic that rikzilla aka "Jay Ref" accuses us falsely of being liars, and of disrespecting the memories of the 2972 victims on 9/11. Well Mr. Jay Ref, we are not liars, and you are yourself a liar and a hypocrite. It's no wonder that you and your ilk have such a cavalier attitude towards the truth. If you would lie about something as simple as who you are and what you represent, what lies are you capable of telling when you have something material to gain? I think it's a foregone conclusion that to accept the truth about 9/11, you have to at least be honest with yourself, and it is in this sense that you aren't qualified.

I hope you will take this as an opportunity to spare the rest of us from your presence on this forum, and spout your insults elsewhere.

"Those who would deceive others in public will eventually deceive themselves in private."

[spiv]

Shows just what a w*nker this clown Jay Ref is!!!

[scubadiver]

I have come out of hibernation to say "I agree". I have read the RANDI thread and he has dug himself a hole with that one.

I wonder if he will change his view on the report written by that bloke from ImplosionWorld?

I doubt it.

[IronSnot]

To be fair, I'd do exactly the same thing. In fact, that's exactly what I will be doing when I'm ready.

[aggle-rithm]

[DeFecToR]

[chipmunk stew]

[Jay Ref]

Wow a thread about me!

I'm flattered!

But Alek, If you really want to nail me for being dishonest then you'd need to catch me out on it...not rely on my honesty in admitting it! I mean c'mon..what is your source of this info on my evil deed?

Me.

I could very easily have lied my ass off and said that I never misrepresented myself, and gone on to either keep secret or further misrepresent my conversation with Danny Jowenko. I did neither thing.

I did the one thing which is glaringly absent in the trooth movement. I told the truth even when the truth was something that was detrimental to my position.

When was the last time one of you freaks did that? I'm thinking never.

-z

BTW: But thanks for the thread about me...I'm famous now!

[Jay Ref]

[DeFecToR]

[aggle-rithm]

[Jay Ref]

Mission Statement:

These forums are provided for debate concerning the events surrounding the attacks on the World Trade Centres on September 11th 2001, and any global events concerning "acts of terrorism" which need to be examined in more detail.

The following simple rules apply:

1. No ad hominem remarks directed towards any person or group
2. No glorification or discussion that could lead to any violent act(s)
3. No advertising of products and/or services unrelated to the forum mission.
4. Topics must be based around 9/11 and 7/7 subject matter

Breaking these rules will lead to deletion of posts and a possible ban. In the case of (2) and (3) an immediate deletion, ban and IP block will be implemented.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The above are the words of the forum mods. Does not the creation of this thread violate those rules? Are there double standards being employed here? One rule for the forum at large...another for the Critic's Corner??

Eh Ian? Care to chime in on why the forum rules don't count here in critic land?

-z

[DeFecToR]

You call me a fool - i call you a tw&t.

Simple.

[Jay Ref]

[DeFecToR]

[TK0001]

Nothing screams insecurity about one's stance like a dedicated character-assassinating thread about a debunker.

Congrats, Jay - you really must have an effect on these people. Good work.

[DeFecToR]

[DeFecToR]

[DeFecToR]

[Alek]

[TK0001]

[TK0001]

[Alek]

[Alek]

[aggle-rithm]

[marky 54]

people might no get along trying to prove each other right or wrong. but when we dont know all the answers to things, the critics point of view if offering a point and not just a insult can be quit valid or at least stop us from jumping to conclusions. some things i though before seemed 100% untill a few things were pointed out then i saw a few problems with what i was thinking, so we might not get along but jref is as important than anyone no matter how annoying. i find telecastration annoying but have to try to respect that some or all of what he says might hold some truths, even if i dont like admit it, so i think its wrong to do a thread on anyone person. but i dont know all the facts leading up to this. the critics one the other hand must at least see why we doubt certain facts, we dont just get facts from nothing some stuff is guessed but only from stuff that isnt. if the commission report was better at covering all the facts fully no one would be here in this forum talking about it, or trying to get there head around certain facts.

[DeFecToR]

[Jay Ref]

This entire movement is just one big adhom against teh gubermint. This forum itself doesn't even abide by it's own rules.

There is no argument being offered and no evidence either. You hate teh gubmint. Therefore 9/11 was an inside job. There is no more substance to the troof movement than that.

Just lies told in support of irrational hatred. Somehow to people with severe mental problems this equals "truth".

Now let me ask you this Alek. If I had not admitted my little white lie, would you know about it? No?

Therefore if I were not honest about what I did, you'd be unable to call me a liar...isn't that right?

The difference between a troother and myself is pretty clear. I disclose information even if it hurts my argument. This is done in the interests of full disclosure which creates a more honest and therefore more useful debate for all parties involved.

Has Dylan Avery ever publicly discussed his reasons for dummying up fake news headlines to flash on the screen in LC? This action was not a mistake and not an error. It was "news" being faked and misrepresented on purpose. Mr. Avery was caught out...he did not post a mea culpa and explain his reasons.

I did something that in retrospect I regret. If I didn't regret it and rat myself out you wouldn't even know it had ever happened. BTW I didn't have to post the truth about my little chat with Danny...but I wanted to anyway.

-z

[TK0001]

[TK0001]