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Alek
Minor Poster
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 29
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 Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| TK0001 wrote: | | Alek wrote: | | So please, given that you don't support Bush, but yet believe his lies about who was reponsible for 9/11, use this opportunity to tell us what he should be doing, and why he shouldn't be doing what he is. |
It's a "given" that I "believe his lies"? I may be wrong, but that *just might* be a loaded statement.
I assume you're referring to the 9/11 Commission Report (which Bush didn't write, incidentally). I don't declare allegence to that report necessarily, rather I prefer to trust the opinions of the thousands of experts who have adequately explained the attacks, whereas your camp has provided none.
Also, you're asking me to provide my political beliefs and for the life of me, I can't see how that provides any insight to the discussion whatsover. Perhaps you can enlighten me? |
Sure, it was a loaded statement. You don't have to accept the premise that he's lying. Are you going to use that as an opportunity to dodge my question?
Just for the record, I haven't indicted Bush in 9/11. I think this goes far above Bush, or Cheney. The only evidence I've seen is circumstantial, but nonetheless I find it disturbing. Bush signed W199-I instructing the FBI to keep their hands off Al Qaeda. What possible legitimate reason could have had for doing that? Now we have whistleblowers in the FBI talking about how their investigations were silenced and squelched. Then we have Bush's relationship with the late Salem Bin Laden, former patriarch of the Bin Laden family through Bush's oil company, Arbutsto Energy. Then we have more connections between the Bin Ladens and the Bush family through the Carlyle Group. Finally, we have Bush's odd behavior on 9/11 itself. Now, taken individually any one of these connections can perhaps be harmlessly written off. But viewed collectively, they paint a disturbing picture which warrants more investigation than the Kean Commission's interview of he and Dick Cheney (together at the same time, potentially allowing them to get their stories straight) that wasn't under oath and was in private. But put all of this aside for a moment and answer my political question.
You distanced yourself from Bush politically in your other post, claiming in essence that you reject this false dilemma of either you must support the "conspiracy theories" of 9/11, or you must support Bush. That's fine, I don't like false dilemmas either. But this begs the question, if you don't support Bush, yet you believe the underlying premise that a conspiracy of Arab terrorists decided to kill us because they hate our freedoms (or insert your pet reason here), then what exactly is Bush doing that he shouldn't be doing, and what isn't he doing that he should? There are some insane neo-cons who think he "hasn't done enough". Apparently he hasn't bombed enough innocent people, rounded up enough farmers and schoolchildren to be tortured in Abu Ghraib and Guantanemo, passed enough "legislation" that has eviscerated the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, spied on enough US Citizens, or yes, premptively used nuclear weapons on Iran yet.
How would you handle the "evil doers" that are lurking behind every dark shadow, but who apparently have since 9/11 not so much as committed a parking violation in the US in the name of Allah?
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Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Alek wrote: | | TK0001 wrote: | | Alek wrote: | | So please, given that you don't support Bush, but yet believe his lies about who was reponsible for 9/11, use this opportunity to tell us what he should be doing, and why he shouldn't be doing what he is. |
It's a "given" that I "believe his lies"? I may be wrong, but that *just might* be a loaded statement.
I assume you're referring to the 9/11 Commission Report (which Bush didn't write, incidentally). I don't declare allegence to that report necessarily, rather I prefer to trust the opinions of the thousands of experts who have adequately explained the attacks, whereas your camp has provided none.
Also, you're asking me to provide my political beliefs and for the life of me, I can't see how that provides any insight to the discussion whatsover. Perhaps you can enlighten me? |
Sure, it was a loaded statement. You don't have to accept the premise that he's lying. Are you going to use that as an opportunity to dodge my question?
Just for the record, I haven't indicted Bush in 9/11. I think this goes far above Bush, or Cheney. The only evidence I've seen is circumstantial, but nonetheless I find it disturbing. Bush signed W199-I instructing the FBI to keep their hands off Al Qaeda. |
bs. Post your evidence. No wait...let me:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/1645527.stm
Where you'll find this quote:
| Quote: | | Newsnight has obtained evidence that the FBI was on the trail of other members of the] Bin Laden family for links to terrorist organisations before and after September 11th... for some reason, agents were pulled off the trail |
Sound's bad huh? The only problem was the date was Sept 11, 1996. Bill Clinton was the President who signed W199-I
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_ timeline&startpos=100#a96wamy
...and if you checked your facts instead of parrotting a bunch of lying CTers you'd know this.
The main problem with CTards is their serial laziness coupled with their immature imaginations.
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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TK0001
Minor Poster
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Alek wrote: | | TK0001 wrote: | | Alek wrote: | | So please, given that you don't support Bush, but yet believe his lies about who was reponsible for 9/11, use this opportunity to tell us what he should be doing, and why he shouldn't be doing what he is. |
It's a "given" that I "believe his lies"? I may be wrong, but that *just might* be a loaded statement.
I assume you're referring to the 9/11 Commission Report (which Bush didn't write, incidentally). I don't declare allegence to that report necessarily, rather I prefer to trust the opinions of the thousands of experts who have adequately explained the attacks, whereas your camp has provided none.
Also, you're asking me to provide my political beliefs and for the life of me, I can't see how that provides any insight to the discussion whatsover. Perhaps you can enlighten me? |
Sure, it was a loaded statement. You don't have to accept the premise that he's lying. Are you going to use that as an opportunity to dodge my question?
Just for the record, I haven't indicted Bush in 9/11. I think this goes far above Bush, or Cheney. The only evidence I've seen is circumstantial, but nonetheless I find it disturbing. Bush signed W199-I instructing the FBI to keep their hands off Al Qaeda. What possible legitimate reason could have had for doing that? Now we have whistleblowers in the FBI talking about how their investigations were silenced and squelched. Then we have Bush's relationship with the late Salem Bin Laden, former patriarch of the Bin Laden family through Bush's oil company, Arbutsto Energy. Then we have more connections between the Bin Ladens and the Bush family through the Carlyle Group. Finally, we have Bush's odd behavior on 9/11 itself. Now, taken individually any one of these connections can perhaps be harmlessly written off. But viewed collectively, they paint a disturbing picture which warrants more investigation than the Kean Commission's interview of he and Dick Cheney (together at the same time, potentially allowing them to get their stories straight) that wasn't under oath and was in private. But put all of this aside for a moment and answer my political question.
You distanced yourself from Bush politically in your other post, claiming in essence that you reject this false dilemma of either you must support the "conspiracy theories" of 9/11, or you must support Bush. That's fine, I don't like false dilemmas either. But this begs the question, if you don't support Bush, yet you believe the underlying premise that a conspiracy of Arab terrorists decided to kill us because they hate our freedoms (or insert your pet reason here), then what exactly is Bush doing that he shouldn't be doing, and what isn't he doing that he should? There are some insane neo-cons who think he "hasn't done enough". Apparently he hasn't bombed enough innocent people, rounded up enough farmers and schoolchildren to be tortured in Abu Ghraib and Guantanemo, passed enough "legislation" that has eviscerated the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, spied on enough US Citizens, or yes, premptively used nuclear weapons on Iran yet.
How would you handle the "evil doers" that are lurking behind every dark shadow, but who apparently have since 9/11 not so much as committed a parking violation in the US in the name of Allah? |
I still fail to see the connection between how I believe the president handled things post-9/11 and the fact I don't believe anyone other than Bin Laden and his cronies pulled off 9/11.
You seem to want to sidetrack the conversation. |
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DeFecToR
Moderate Poster
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 782
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Except Bush reauthorized it.
Check your own facts Jay Lord.
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-William James |
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Alek
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Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:32 am Post subject: |
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I don't normally respond to trolls, but this is more substantial than your usual bunch of insults.
Here is a link to a scan of a page in BBC Journalist Greg Palast's book, "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy". The page itself is part of the secret W199-I directive signed by former President Clinton. If you read Figure 14 you will find that according to the BBC, Bill Clinton "constrained" investigations of alleged Saudi funding of terror networks, and Bush jr. "killed' those investigations until 2001. As a sidenote, I find it interesting that the date that the FBI was pulled off of the investigation of Abdullah Bin Laden was September 11th, 1996. But that's just another odd coincidence.
In a 2001 London Guardian article Palast writes:
| Quote: | But the FBI files were closed in 1996 apparently before any conclusions could be reached on either the Bin Laden brothers or the organisation itself. High-placed intelligence sources in Washington told the Guardian this week: "There were always constraints on investigating the Saudis".
They said the restrictions became worse after the Bush administration took over this year. The intelligence agencies had been told to "back off" from investigations involving other members of the Bin Laden family, the Saudi royals, and possible Saudi links to the acquisition of nuclear weapons by Pakistan.
"There were particular investigations that were effectively killed."
Only after the September 11 attacks was the stance of political and commercial closeness reversed towards the other members of the large Bin Laden clan, who have classed Osama bin Laden as their "black sheep".
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So, what we have here is, for all intents and purposes, an endorsement of Clinton's 1996 directive, by George W. Bush. In the real world that I live in, there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the Bushes and the Clintons. They're the best of friends, and they're both puppets for the same masters. How do you explain Clinton and Bush's actions to constrain and kill FBI investigations into terrorist activity? You can't, because there is no valid explanation.
| Quote: |
...and if you checked your facts instead of parrotting a bunch of lying CTers you'd know this.
The main problem with CTards is their serial laziness coupled with their immature imaginations.
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I have checked the facts pertaining to 9/11 and the Bush administration, and they exude the pungent odor of something rotten. As far as actual proof of Bush endorsing W199-I, either video evidence or specific testimony, I have none. But then, according to BBC and the Guardian, the document is marked "secret". They don't specify how they got ahold of it, nor do they mention the names of the intelligence agents they sourced.
Why should your broad-based and non-specific accusations of "lying CTers" mean anything, coming from a liar himself? As far as I'm concerned, Palast, the BBC, and the Guardian are all more credible than George W. Bush, and you, incidentally.
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"The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." |
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aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Alek wrote: | As a sidenote, I find it interesting that the date that the FBI was pulled off of the investigation of Abdullah Bin Laden was September 11th, 1996. But that's just another odd coincidence.
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Or IS IT? (Insert scary music here)
| Quote: | | In the real world that I live in, there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the Bushes and the Clintons. They're the best of friends, and they're both puppets for the same masters. |
...the Constitution of the United States? |
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Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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So basically what you are saying with way too many words is that when you said this:
| Alek wrote: | | The only evidence I've seen is circumstantial, but nonetheless I find it disturbing. Bush signed W199-I instructing the FBI to keep their hands off Al Qaeda. |
You were actually spouting a load of bs....just as I said you were.
At last we are in agreement.
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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TK0001
Minor Poster
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| TK0001 wrote: | | DeFecToR wrote: |
Could you please do one of two things for me? Either show me where in the above statement i wrote the name 'Bush', or show me where i have previously asserted that Bush carried out 911. |
My fault. I assumed that when you referred to genocidal killers, you were referring to Bush and his administration. May I ask who it was you were really referring to?
In context, you said:
| Quote: | And yes, he has had an effect on me. He's made me realise just how intellectually bankrupt some individuals can be. And to what depths some people will sink to when defending genocidal killers.
Ho hum.... |
I admit I was wrong to assume. Please accept my apology and explain who these genocidal killers are. Thanks. |
Bump.
I still haven't seen a response from you on this, defector. Maybe you didn't see my reply earlier.
Could you please let me know who these genocidal killers are? Thanks again. |
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Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Just a side note....
But while this ad-hom thread directed at me still is going strong, my equally wrong ad-hom thread against the moron known as "Catfish" has miraculously disappeared.
Could it be CONSPIRACY?
....or is it simply a hypocritical selective enforcement of forum rules??
Oh man...it's a good year for da troof!
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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marky 54
Mega Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 3293
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Jay Ref wrote: | Just a side note....
But while this ad-hom thread directed at me still is going strong, my equally wrong ad-hom thread against the moron known as "Catfish" has miraculously disappeared.
Could it be CONSPIRACY?
....or is it simply a hypocritical selective enforcement of forum rules??
Oh man...it's a good year for da troof!
-z |
yeah like the hipocrit that assumes things about us, then says we have no right to assume things. |
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TK0001
Minor Poster
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| TK0001 wrote: | | TK0001 wrote: | | DeFecToR wrote: |
Could you please do one of two things for me? Either show me where in the above statement i wrote the name 'Bush', or show me where i have previously asserted that Bush carried out 911. |
My fault. I assumed that when you referred to genocidal killers, you were referring to Bush and his administration. May I ask who it was you were really referring to?
In context, you said:
| Quote: | And yes, he has had an effect on me. He's made me realise just how intellectually bankrupt some individuals can be. And to what depths some people will sink to when defending genocidal killers.
Ho hum.... |
I admit I was wrong to assume. Please accept my apology and explain who these genocidal killers are. Thanks. |
Bump.
I still haven't seen a response from you on this, defector. Maybe you didn't see my reply earlier.
Could you please let me know who these genocidal killers are? Thanks again. |
Bump 2 |
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DeFecToR
Moderate Poster
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 782
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Bump 3, moron.
Stop thinking that because i haven't replied that you have scored some childish point here.
I've far better things to do than answer your ridiculously obvious questions. Dig your head out of your arse and wash the turd out of your ears. Then go look for the answer yourself.
Oh sorry, dem ayee-rabs dunnit. Cumishon sed so.
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-William James |
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catfish
Validated Poster
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 430
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Jay Ref wrote: | Just a side note....
But while this ad-hom thread directed at me still is going strong, my equally wrong ad-hom thread against the moron known as "Catfish" has miraculously disappeared.
Could it be CONSPIRACY?
....or is it simply a hypocritical selective enforcement of forum rules??
Oh man...it's a good year for da troof!
-z |
Ha ha. I saved the page if you want to read it again. I would've left it up as it made you look like an idiot yet again, but I wasn't consulted.
love and hugs and big wet sloppy kisses from
catfish 
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wepmob2000
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 431
Location: North East England
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, I was forced to endure umpteen ad hominen attacks because of my opinions on the war in the Lebanon, not a word was said.
As soon as the moderator thought I had referred to people on here as 'loonies' I was jumped upon (however fortunately the moderator had not read my post properly). Pure hypocrisy in my view in that on the one hand some people can accuse others of genocide, but on the other, those that insult the perpetrators of such unproven slander should get their wrists slapped......
Oh yes, check out Catfish's weblink to find out where his sympathies lie, not so interested in the truth as any chance to jump on any anti Zionist bandwagon...... |
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Ignatz
Moderate Poster
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 918
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| wepmob2000 wrote: |
Oh yes, check out Catfish's weblink to find out where his sympathies lie, not so interested in the truth as any chance to jump on any anti Zionist bandwagon...... |
It's in rather poor English.
But maybe Catfish isn't a native English speaker, so perhaps that's unkind. |
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wepmob2000
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 431
Location: North East England
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Ignatz wrote: | | wepmob2000 wrote: |
Oh yes, check out Catfish's weblink to find out where his sympathies lie, not so interested in the truth as any chance to jump on any anti Zionist bandwagon...... |
It's in rather poor English.
But maybe Catfish isn't a native English speaker, so perhaps that's unkind. |
Makes for interesting reading I think....? Don't be afraid to dig into Catfish's prior posts to discover his anti-Israeli leanings (he'll do the same to you). It kind of puts a whole new perspective on things, a proponent of DBS's rantings on the 911 truth forum....... |
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TK0001
Minor Poster
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| DeFecToR wrote: |
Bump 3, moron.
Stop thinking that because i haven't replied that you have scored some childish point here.
I've far better things to do than answer your ridiculously obvious questions. Dig your head out of your arse and wash the turd out of your ears. Then go look for the answer yourself.
Oh sorry, dem ayee-rabs dunnit. Cumishon sed so. |
You have NOTHING better to do. What, I'm supposed to believe that you're so scary busy that you can't answer a simple question, and yet you can take the time to lambaste me for asking you to answer it?
Just answer the damn question. What are you so afraid of? Just admit that your pretentious post meant to silence me was absolute nonsense. Just like a damn CTist. Get caught in a lie and don't have the guts to admit that you're completely wrong. Absolutely pathetic. You can't even admit that you consider Bush a "genocidal killer", when pretty much ALL CTISTS THINK THAT!!!
Pride goes before the fall.
By the way, so as not to lose track, here's how we've arrived at this point:
Your original post:
| Quote: | And yes, he has had an effect on me. He's made me realise just how intellectually bankrupt some individuals can be. And to what depths some people will sink to when defending genocidal killers.
Ho hum.... |
My reply:
| Quote: | I think the biggest factor in the communication breakdown between believers and debunkers is the fact that all believers seem to think all debunkers are 100% pro-Bush. I guess there's just a natural tendency to categorize us that way to make it easier to hate us, despite the fact it's most definitely not true.
Ho hum indeed... |
Your patronizing reply:
| Quote: | | Could you please do one of two things for me? Either show me where in the above statement i wrote the name 'Bush', or show me where i have previously asserted that Bush carried out 911. |
My reply to that load of nonsense:
| Quote: | My fault. I assumed that when you referred to genocidal killers, you were referring to Bush and his administration. May I ask who it was you were really referring to?
I admit I was wrong to assume. Please accept my apology and explain who these genocidal killers are. Thanks. |
Then:
| Quote: | Bump.
I still haven't seen a response from you on this, defector. Maybe you didn't see my reply earlier.
Could you please let me know who these genocidal killers are? Thanks again. |
Then:
Then comes the part that you get REALLY defensive because you got flat out busted. Good lord your ego must be so unbelievably fragile. All I'm asking you to do is admit you think Bush is a genocidal killer (which, of course, is completely retarded. Do you even know what "genocidal" means?). This is not something CTists generally have a problem admitting. And yet you can't do it because it would mean you're full of nonsense. You need to admit to me that you were wrong to make your statement of never mentioning Bush. I'll be waiting. |
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John White
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ....that you consider Bush a "genocidal killer" |
Hardly unique to "conspiracy theorists" (your definition btw), most of the world thinks that...
The USA is only 4% of the Global population and even there, Bush is scarcly universally loved
What motivation does anyone else have to delude themselves that Bush is OK really? perhaps you can answer TK0001
Meanwhile,mountains of corpses and Bush as guilty as hell of War Crimes under the Neurenberg definition
To whit: "Starting Aggresive Wars"
Justifications? All false
Capture Bin Laden? Let him go
WMD's? Pure fantasy
Saddam supporting Al-quada? The exact opposite of truth
911 caught America by suprise? Prior Knowledge
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TK0001
Minor Poster
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| John White wrote: | | Quote: | | ....that you consider Bush a "genocidal killer" |
Hardly unique to "conspiracy theorists" (your definition btw), most of the world thinks that...
The USA is only 4% of the Global population and even there, Bush is scarcly universally loved
What motivation does anyone else have to delude themselves that Bush is OK really? perhaps you can answer TK0001
Meanwhile,mountains of corpses and Bush as guilty as hell of War Crimes under the Neurenberg definition
To whit: "Starting Aggresive Wars"
Justifications? All false
Capture Bin Laden? Let him go
WMD's? Pure fantasy
Saddam supporting Al-quada? The exact opposite of truth
911 caught America by suprise? Prior Knowledge |
I completely agree with all you've said here, except I still believe we're looking for OBL.
I think Bush is a horrible president, and a war mongerer. I think he used 9/11 to start a war, and he knowingly deceived the American public by continuously connecting Iraq with 9/11. But I don't choose to believe, just because I can't stand the guy, that he orchestrated the attacks. I also don't see how he can be labeled as a genocidal killer. A war mongerer, yes, but I just don't see how he's specifically targeted a race of people just because of their race. This is all beside the point, though.
This is all about defector's inability to admit he screwed up. |
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John White
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:41 am Post subject: |
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It may suprise you TK0001 that a sizable chunk of 9/11 truthseekers also cannot believe Bush orchestrated the attacks. In particular Webster Tarpley argues that Bush was totally out of the loop:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1061916535027209358&q=america n+scholars
Cheney however is a different matter
Its interesting to note that Cheney,by his own statement,was bundled out by his Advisors immediately... whilst Bush was left reading about a goat
Its also interesting to note that,for the first time in history,it was the Vice President who held the authority to order jets to scramble on 9/11: not the generals
As Robert Bowman puts forward,if the adminsitration did nothing on 9/11,standard procedure should have seen jets intercepting within 15 to 20 minutes.Running from memory,I believe Jets were scrambled 67times in the year before as standard procedure:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6347432752334298937
Not on 9/11 though....
Obviously,perspectives like this advance the likelyhood of LIHOP at a minimum
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John White
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Defector is his own responsibility btw, I dont support "hit" threads myself
(although I've weathered more than a few! My fault for discussing religion elsewhere on the net  )
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John White
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | A war mongerer, yes, but I just don't see how he's specifically targeted a race of people just because of their race |
Also btw, the Islamic world has something to say about that... more Religion than race...Bush's own fault for claiming God talked to him of course. As Ann Coulter puts it: "manifest Chrisitian destiny"
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TK0001
Minor Poster
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| John White wrote: | It may suprise you TK0001 that a sizable chunk of 9/11 truthseekers also cannot believe Bush orchestrated the attacks. In particular Webster Tarpley argues that Bush was totally out of the loop:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1061916535027209358&q=america n+scholars
Cheney however is a different matter
Its interesting to note that Cheney,by his own statement,was bundled out by his Advisors immediately... whilst Bush was left reading about a goat
Its also interesting to note that,for the first time in history,it was the Vice President who held the authority to order jets to scramble on 9/11: not the generals
As Robert Bowman puts forward,if the adminsitration did nothing on 9/11,standard procedure should have seen jets intercepting within 15 to 20 minutes.Running from memory,I believe Jets were scrambled 67times in the year before as standard procedure:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6347432752334298937
Not on 9/11 though....
Obviously,perspectives like this advance the likelyhood of LIHOP at a minimum |
There is simply no shred of solid evidence that anyone other than the hijackers themselves carried out the attacks. As much as I detest Buch, Cheney, and Rummy, I just can't see how they masterminded the plan to bring the buildings down with controlled demolition. It just doen't shake out when held up to the light or any other cliche you'd like to add.
I have no idea whether or not they knew about it and let it happen. It seems that in the 5 years since, we're learning more and more about what the government knew about OBL back in the 90's and early 2000's. At the least it was utter incompetence by our government, at most, they knew about it and looked the other way while it was planned and executed. |
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TK0001
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| John White wrote: | | Quote: | | A war mongerer, yes, but I just don't see how he's specifically targeted a race of people just because of their race |
Also btw, the Islamic world has something to say about that... more Religion than race...Bush's own fault for claiming God talked to him of course. As Ann Coulter puts it: "manifest Chrisitian destiny" |
I don't see how he's attacking Islam, either. He's attacking the radicals, who happen to be Muslim and who consider killing Americans their uppermost priority.
But he's not attacking Muslims because they're Muslim, IMO. |
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John White
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ...at most, they knew about it and looked the other way while it happened. |
This doesnt trouble you?
thats LIHOP btw: Let It Happen On Purpose
And if they did anything at all,even the smallest thing, to protect the terrorists,to divert discovery before the attack, thats MIHOP: Made It Happen On Purpose
Anything else from there is simply surgery to find out how deep the cancer has spread... and with Cheney, one BIG Q is Halliburton and many many $$$...
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John White
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:59 am Post subject: |
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Oh,and guess which Saudi firm had the Lions share of contracts after Gulf war 1? Bin Laden construction
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John White
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| TK0001 wrote: | | John White wrote: | | Quote: | | A war mongerer, yes, but I just don't see how he's specifically targeted a race of people just because of their race |
Also btw, the Islamic world has something to say about that... more Religion than race...Bush's own fault for claiming God talked to him of course. As Ann Coulter puts it: "manifest Chrisitian destiny" |
I don't see how he's attacking Islam, either. He's attacking the radicals, who happen to be Muslim and who consider killing Americans their uppermost priority.
But he's not attacking Muslims because they're Muslim, IMO. |
I understand your opinion. Equally,I understand that muslims generally dont share it. Dead children do that to people
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TK0001
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| John White wrote: | | Quote: | | ...at most, they knew about it and looked the other way while it happened. |
This doesnt trouble you?
thats LIHOP btw: Let It Happen On Purpose
And if they did anything at all,even the smallest thing, to protect the terrorists,to divert discovery before the attack, thats MIHOP: Made It Happen On Purpose
Anything else from there is simply surgery to find out how deep the cancer has spread... and with Cheney, one BIG Q is Halliburton and many many $$$... |
Of course it troubles me. I don't see where in what I've said here you'd be led to believe otherwise.
The head of my government and those closest to him are clearly corrupt, and/or ridiculously incompetent. 2008 can't get here fast enough.
BUT
I don't believe there was an incredibly illogical, ridiculously expensive, and overly-complicated plan in place to bring the buildings down with controlled demolition, or to land planes safely and have drones fly in their place, or to launch a missile into the Pentagon.
Maybe they knew OBL was going to launch some kind of attack on American soil, and they saw that they'd be able to use it to justify a war with Iraq, so they made work of turning their heads and letting the plans continue. That might be a real possiblity. But those buildings absolutely weren't lined with explosives, and drones weren't flown into the buildings, and a missile wan't fired at the Pentagon. |
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blackcat
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Joined: 07 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | There is simply no shred of solid evidence that anyone other than the hijackers themselves carried out the attacks |
Durrrrrrrr  |
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TK0001
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Quote: | | There is simply no shred of solid evidence that anyone other than the hijackers themselves carried out the attacks |
Durrrrrrrr |
Immaturity duly noted.
Anything contructive you want to add, other than pointing out your flashy debating skills? |
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